Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega Man Merge)
 

LOL.

And monkeys might fly out of my butt.

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega Man Merge)
 

Okay..thread within a thread....before Monkeys start flying out Malcolm's butt.


What's the over/under on when Brunell is benched and Campbell gets his shot?

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega-merge)
 

[quote=Grim21Reaper;217687]Brunell is the Chuck Knoblauch of QB's. He is literally afraid to throw the ball.

[/quote]


:D He's not THAT bad. No one is THAT bad. Ok, maybe Aaron Brooks.

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega Man Merge)
 

[quote=12thMan;217846]Okay..thread within a thread....before Monkeys start flying out Malcolm's butt.


What's the over/under on when Brunell is benched and Campbell gets his shot?[/quote]

This is like the [URL="http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0139809/"]Thirteenth Floor[/URL]...

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega Man Merge)
 

Well, since we're already 2 games in and we'll face some tough defenses soon, I think Campbell will get his first start against tennessee in week 6.

Brunell's getting the start this week adn will probably play decently against the texans, so he'll stay for jacksonville. The jags are going to destroy him and we're all going to really be having a shit-fit but Gibbs won't want Campbell to start against the giants; so that will buy Brunell another week. Brunell will once again prove that he's too old up in NY, Campbell will get the ball for tennessee at home.

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega Man Merge)
 

[QUOTE=onlydarksets;217850]This is like the [URL="http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0139809/"]Thirteenth Floor[/URL]...[/QUOTE]
Were you a producer of this movie and that's why you provided this link?

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega Man Merge)
 

[quote=ArtMonkDrillz;217852]Were you a producer of this movie and that's why you provided this link?[/quote]

No, it's because not everyone is as savvy as me, and I like to help out the [URL="http://www.thewarpath.net/member.php?u=1330"]slower folks[/URL].

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega Man Merge)
 

QB is not the only key to us making the Super Bowl. We need to fix some things in most parts of our game and get our superstar RB in and running for TDs.

In the last 11 years:

Trent Dilfer won a SB.
Kurt Warner won a SB.
Jeff Hostettler won a SB.
Ben Roethlisberger won a SB by throwing 15 times a game.
Chris Chandler went to a SB.
Jake Delhomme went to a SB.
Kerry Collins went to a SB.
Stan Humphries went to a SB.
Neil O'Donnell went to a SB.

We don't need a Pro Bowl QB to go all the way. Heck, we've won with Mark Rypien and Doug Williams, who was the backup QB most of the year to Jay Shroeder.

Yes Brunell's game isn't where it needs to be, but we can say that about most of the roster right now. On offense, could it be the learning curve for the new system and will work its way out after a few weeks? MOST LIKELY! On defense, well they played good for 3 quarters against Dallas and considering Frost punted 8 times and the offense didn't keep the ball moving down the field consistently, we can probably attribute their 4th quarter problems to fatigue...and Springs being out.

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega Man Merge)
 

[quote=onlydarksets;217822]McNair passing for 116 yards against the Bucs and 126 yards against the Raiders?[/quote]


181 vs the Bucs
143 vs the Raiders

That however isn't my point.....although it seemed that way. I hope your not trying to say that Mcnair has the same weapons that we do?? Or that Mcnair is scared to hang in the pocket and take a hit like Brunell. Or that Baltimores offense is the same up tempo down the field attack that we supposedly have. They run the ball 10X better than we do and Mcnair moves the chains unlike Brunell.

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega Man Merge)
 

I'm pissed at Brunell, but I'll give him the benefit of the doubt this week if Portis plays. Sure, you have to set up the run with the pass and vice versa. Most teams just knew we weren't going to be able to run the ball effectively.

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega Man Merge)
 

[QUOTE=Buster;217857]Yes Brunell's game isn't where it needs to be, but we can say that about most of the roster right now. On offense, could it be the learning curve for the new system and will work its way out after a few weeks? MOST LIKELY! [/QUOTE]

again (and again), *WHY* invest those weeks in Brunell losing while he climbs the learning curve? then go through that torturous learning period again when its Campbell's turn??

Brunell starting was about "winning now". you see that happening? if someone is going to learn out there, it should be someone whose best years are AHEAD of him, not behind.

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega Man Merge)
 

[quote=skinnyfan;217863] They run the ball 10X better than we do and Mcnair moves the chains unlike Brunell.[/quote]


Well yeah...if we had Jamal Lewis, we'd run the ball 10x better too.

Wait for Portis. :D

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega Man Merge)
 

[quote=Buster;217857]
In the last 11 years:

Trent Dilfer won a SB.
Kurt Warner won a SB.
Jeff Hostettler won a SB.
Ben Roethlisberger won a SB by throwing 15 times a game.
Chris Chandler went to a SB.
Jake Delhomme went to a SB.
Kerry Collins went to a SB.
Stan Humphries went to a SB.
Neil O'Donnell went to a SB.

We don't need a Pro Bowl QB to go all the way. Heck, we've won with Mark Rypien and Doug Williams, who was the backup QB most of the year to Jay Shroeder.[/quote]
[COLOR=black][/COLOR]
[COLOR=black]All the quarterbacks you named fall into two categories. Dilfer, Roethlisberger, Delhomme, and O’Donnell all played teams where their respective defenses were top five or higher for those particular seasons. All they had to do was put 17 points on the board and not screw up, and they could rack up 11+ wins for the season. Brunell doesn’t have the luxury of a top five defense(at least not at this point in the season), and I’m not positive he could put up 17 points, without the help of penalties and turnovers.[/COLOR]
[COLOR=black] [/COLOR]
[COLOR=black][FONT='Times New Roman'][FONT=Verdana][SIZE=2]Warner, Hostettler, Chandler, and Collins were all veteran journeymen who had a nice one or two season run, in which they fit perfectly in the system they were in. Warner in particular, was the leader of one of the most prolific offenses ever. Brunell will NEVER break 30 TD’s or 4,000 passing yards in a season, so I don’t think these comparisons are valid.[/SIZE][/FONT][/FONT][/COLOR]

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega Man Merge)
 

[quote=illdefined;217867]again (and again), *WHY* invest those weeks in Brunell losing while he climbs the learning curve? then go through that torturous learning period again when its Campbell's turn??

Brunell starting was about "winning now". you see that happening? if someone is going to learn out there, it should be someone whose best years are AHEAD of him, not behind.[/quote]

Based on last year, I still think Brunell knowing this offense would take us further than Campbell would at this point if he equally knew the offense. Campbell should get garbage time this year and take over next year. Remember, he still has not taken a single regular-season snap and until this year, hadn't even taken a preseason snap against another team.

I like that we're taking our time with Campbell. Most cases where that was done has worked out great...Steve Young, Brett Favre, even Mark Brunell earlier in his career. It's a rare QB that can be thrown into the fire right away and succeed, and I'm not sure Campbell is a Peyton Manning or Carson Palmer.

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega Man Merge)
 

[quote=skinnyfan;217863]181 vs the Bucs
143 vs the Raiders

That however isn't my point.....although it seemed that way. I hope your not trying to say that Mcnair has the same weapons that we do?? Or that Mcnair is scared to hang in the pocket and take a hit like Brunell. Or that Baltimores offense is the same up tempo down the field attack that we supposedly have. They run the ball 10X better than we do and Mcnair moves the chains unlike Brunell.[/quote]

I was using the NFL's net yards, not the stats - my bad.

However, Baltimore's offense is about their defense. 6 INTs and 3 FRs in the first two games, with one for a TD. Their offense has 2 TDs and 6 field goals, and half the time they [B]start[/B] their drives in field goal range (at least they did against the Raiders). By contrast, we've started in opposing territory exactly [B]twice[/B]. Their offense is better for having McNair, granted, but I wouldn't point to him as an example of what's wrong with Brunell.

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega Man Merge)
 

I hate to sound so negative Buster, but garbage time will be shortly if we don't right the ship.

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega Man Merge)
 

[quote=Southpaw;217879]
[COLOR=black]All the quarterbacks you named fall into two categories. Dilfer, Roethlisberger, Delhomme, and O’Donnell all played teams where their respective defenses were top five or higher for those particular seasons. All they had to do was put 17 points on the board and not screw up, and they could rack up 11+ wins for the season. Brunell doesn’t have the luxury of a top five defense(at least not at this point in the season), and I’m not positive he could put up 17 points, without the help of penalties and turnovers.[/COLOR]

[COLOR=black][FONT=Times New Roman][FONT=Verdana][SIZE=2]Warner, Hostettler, Chandler, and Collins were all veteran journeymen who had a nice one or two season run, in which they fit perfectly in the system they were in. Warner in particular, was the leader of one of the most prolific offenses ever. Brunell will NEVER break 30 TD’s or 4,000 passing yards in a season, so I don’t think these comparisons are valid.[/SIZE][/FONT][/FONT][/COLOR][/quote] Campbell did see playing time last year in presaeson.

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega Man Merge)
 

[quote=Southpaw;217879]
[COLOR=black]All the quarterbacks you named fall into two categories. Dilfer, Roethlisberger, Delhomme, and O’Donnell all played teams where their respective defenses were top five or higher for those particular seasons. [B]All they had to do was put 17 points on the board and not screw up[/B], and they could rack up 11+ wins for the season. [/COLOR]

Like Brunell last year. :)

[quote=Southpaw;217879]
[COLOR=black]Brunell doesn’t have the luxury of a top five defense(at least not at this point in the season), and I’m not positive he could put up 17 points, without the help of penalties and turnovers.[/COLOR][/quote]

We do have one of the top defenses in the NFL, as we did last year. When Springs is back and they don't have to play 3/4 of the game from 3-and-outs, I think this group will be better than last year's squad. We've only improved it. Our only major loss was Arrington, who was worthless to us last year anyways.

[quote=Southpaw;217879]
[COLOR=black][FONT=Times New Roman][FONT=Verdana][SIZE=2]Warner, Hostettler, Chandler, and Collins were all veteran journeymen who had a nice one or two season run, in which they fit perfectly in the system they were in. Warner in particular, was the leader of one of the most prolific offenses ever. Brunell will NEVER break 30 TD’s or 4,000 passing yards in a season, so I don’t think these comparisons are valid.[/SIZE][/FONT][/FONT][/COLOR][/quote]

We'll have to wait a little longer than 2 weeks with no running game to see how Brunell fits in this system. Don't forget Saunders' QB in KC was a former Redskin. I'm not sure if that's worth anything, but it is interesting. Warner had big numbers that year but has since proven he's more of a grocery bagger than a star QB. He's really mediocre, but just benefitted from a good system. Our system IS proven, just not implemented completely yet due to the newness of it and not having the main part of the system, the top RB. I still can't blame Brunell for the whole team's struggles.

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega Man Merge)
 

I saw a brief interview of Springs last night, and basically summed up the defensive woes to a lack of swagger. He said the swagger will be back when he gets on the field.

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega Man Merge)
 

[quote=12thMan;217885]I saw a brief interview of Springs last night, and basically summed up the defensive woes to a lack of swagger. He said the swagger will be back when he gets on the field.[/quote]

duh! everyone knows you need swagger ;)

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega Man Merge)
 

[QUOTE=Buster;217880]Based on last year, I still think Brunell knowing this offense would take us further than Campbell would at this point if he equally knew the offense. Campbell should get garbage time this year and take over next year. Remember, he still has not taken a single regular-season snap and until this year, hadn't even taken a preseason snap against another team.[/QUOTE]

didn't you just say it's a new offense? i just don't see the value of trying to teach this old dog new tricks. by all measures, he's already had alot more problems with it than anticipated. if we're not going to win now, then better JC win later, not MB.

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega Man Merge)
 

[quote=firstdown;217883]Campbell did see playing time last year in presaeson.[/quote]

Did you mean to quote me? I didn't mention Campbell. I was just stating that Brunell is not in the same situation as any of the quarterbacks mentioned.

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega Man Merge)
 

Brunell has got to be physically done. Heck Kurt Warner was bagging groceries when he picked up this offense and he became an MVP.

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega Man Merge)
 

I don't know why I forgot to bring this up before, but this is from Bill Simmon's NFL preview right before the season started...

[QUOTE]To the dumbest plan of the year: the Redskins investing in two free agent receivers (Antwan Randle-El and Brandon Lloyd) and an expensive offensive coordinator (Al Saunders) to go with their expensive gamebreakers (Clinton Portis and Santana Moss) … only they're going with a washed-up Mark Brunell at QB again. How does that make sense? Does Joe Gibbs do this with NASCAR, too? Does he spend a ton of money on his cars and pit crews, then find the most mediocre drivers possible?[/QUOTE]

I think I wrote this off at the time that it came out, but seems like he might be right on.

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega Man Merge)
 

[quote=Buster;217884]Like Brunell last year. :)[/quote]

Yeah... like Brunell last year when everything was running perfectly. As soon as Portis got a little dinged up, and Brunell was relied on to put points on the board, he fell apart.

[quote=Buster;217884]We do have one of the top defenses in the NFL, as we did last year. When Springs is back and they don't have to play 3/4 of the game from 3-and-outs, I think this group will be better than last year's squad. We've only improved it. Our only major loss was Arrington, who was worthless to us last year anyways.[/quote]

Washington's "top defense" is ranked 22nd in the league, right now. While I do think the return of Springs will help, one player is not going to fix all the problems with the defense. Certainly not the main problem, which is the unit having to be on the field for 40 minutes of the game, because Brunell can't complete a third down pass.

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega Man Merge)
 

Can I vote to bench Brunnell more than once?

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega Man Merge)
 

in one of John Madden's more lucid moments, he also focused directly on Brunell not being the right guy.

I say lucid, because he quite astutely remarked on how much Brunell historically throws outside the numbers. as long as i've been watching, i've never seen the official stat before.

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega Man Merge)
 

I caught that stat from Madden too, Ill. Very interesting stat.

On a side note, I'm impressed how this thread has managed to stay on track on different levels. :)

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega Man Merge)
 

[quote=illdefined;217916]in one of John Madden's more lucid moments, he also focused directly on Brunell not being the right guy.

I say lucid, because he quite astutely remarked on how much Brunell historically throws outside the numbers. as long as i've been watching, i've never seen the official stat before.[/quote]

Yes, it was an insightful comment from Madden. Of course, with the national TV audience, now everyone watching knows how Brunell is struggling.

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega Man Merge)
 

has anyone talked about that statistic that they had on sunday night fb? the one that MB was the leading passer outside the #s and the worst inside the #s.

can anyone make anything of that. i'd think it'd be tougher to make throws all the way to the sideline but maybe he just doesn't have the touch to thread the needle anymore? maybe this explains why he can't make the pressure throws in Al's offense.

i don't know i'm just speculating. it was just an interesting statistic. i know that we rolled out a bunch last year but worst and first?

hmmm...

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega Man Merge)
 

simply illustrates Brunell's "safe" style. it explains Brunell's low INT numbers (even tho he still got one picked to the outside last game...on the 1..ugh) and also explains how we've gotten by this long without a true "possession" WR.

thank god for Cooley, he's hard to miss and catches most anything his way. hopefully Brunell remembers him next game.

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega Man Merge)
 

i don't know. i just can't understand how when someone brings the house on D that someone isn't open. he must be afraid to throw it over the middle. i wish i had spent more time watching KC offense.

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega Man Merge)
 

It's because he has a vag.

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega Man Merge)
 

I was just thinking, when was the last game Brunell actually tossed a TD pass. It had to be at least seven or eight games ago. None this year and none in the playoffs, right?

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega Man Merge)
 

Yep pretty much..atleast it was just barely in this calendar year tho!! Jan, 1 2006. Brunell threw 1 TD pass (4yrds to Sellers) and had 128 passing yards........AWESOME!

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega Man Merge)
 

[quote=DaveyFoSho;218007]Yep pretty much..atleast it was just barely in this calendar year tho!! Jan, 1 2006. Brunell threw 1 TD pass (4yrds to Sellers) and had 128 passing yards........AWESOME![/quote]

What game was that? Tampa, Seattle?

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega Man Merge)
 

ANOTHER FUN FACT...Brunell has not thrown for over 200 passing yards since Nov. 13th 2005......and that was just barely 226....and the last 300yrd game was Oct. 16th 2006.. 331...................................................................................................WHY?

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega Man Merge)
 

Well he also threw 5 TDs and 0 Ints against KC and Denver last year but we lost both games, so how many TDs he threw in a game doesn't always tell the whole story. If he throws 3 on Sunday and we lose 27-24 or if he throws none and we win 16-10, which would you rather have?

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega Man Merge)
 

[quote=DaveyFoSho;218010]ANOTHER FUN FACT...Brunell has not thrown for over 200 passing yards since Nov. 13th 2005......and that was just barely 226....and the last 300yrd game was Oct. 16th 2006.. 331...................................................................................................WHY?[/quote]

Exactly. Brunell peaked in November and is done. The defense saved our butts late last year. Brunell is the perfect backup.

Re: Time to bench Brunell? (Mega Man Merge)
 

Woops i lied he threw for 242 against seattle....and had 1 td pass to MOSS that was Jan 14th. but still pretty big gap nov-jan without breaking 200 yards....now he has gone 8 games now without a td throw?? including preseason....