Re: All things Middle East related
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1123618]up close video report from Russia's air base in Syria. The Russian Times reporter is walking among the fighter jets, and honestly, it's just a little bit the of the geek in me that likes seeing the hardware up close.

Nothing groundbreaking news wise as this is a Russian propaganda outlet.

[YT]smG_2cww8hU[/YT][/quote]

they just had an air show at andrews last week i think... i guess it's too late to mention that now.

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[quote=That Guy;1123621]they just had an air show at andrews last week i think... i guess it's too late to mention that now.[/quote]

As a teen, I was in a ROTC equivalent (CAP) and we would walk the flight lines for the Andrews air shows. Seeing the equipment up close is pretty interesting to me. I loved when they had an SR-71 on site. That thing was super duper cool man.

As to your point. I suppose the sarcasm tag was invisible, but an airshow around one's nation's capitol, is a bit different then walking on an active airfield with live combat sorties.

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[quote=CRedskinsRule;1123624]As a teen, I was in a ROTC equivalent (CAP) and we would walk the flight lines for the Andrews air shows. Seeing the equipment up close is pretty interesting to me. I loved when they had an SR-71 on site. That thing was super duper cool man.

As to your point. I suppose the sarcasm tag was invisible, but an airshow around one's nation's capitol, is a bit different then walking on an active airfield with live combat sorties.[/quote]

well you can get a job in flight-line maintenance if you want, but i can promise you it's pretty terrible.

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Russia has moved electronic jamming equipment into Syria.

A couple days until Russia "inadvertently" starts jamming US and coalition aircraft?

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Turkey is not entertained:
[url]https://www.yahoo.com/news/turkish-jets-intercept-russian-fighter-plane-violating-air-070343861.html[/url]

Sent from my S6 Edge

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Russia is putting on quite the show.

[url=http://news.yahoo.com/fighting-erupts-central-syria-amid-russian-airstrikes-072047268.html]Russia fires cruise missiles from warships into Syria[/url]

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[quote=CRedskinsRule;1124453]Russia is putting on quite the show.

[url=http://news.yahoo.com/fighting-erupts-central-syria-amid-russian-airstrikes-072047268.html]Russia fires cruise missiles from warships into Syria[/url][/quote]

Quite a show is an flat out understatement.

Reports coming Russians troops are airlifting soldiers into Homs and have activity took up fighting as well. Reports say the first Russian causality has occurred.

The our government has stated 90% of air strikes NOT against Isis. Folks Russians are coming after the troops we have armed and supported.

I can't believe how much of a fucking pussy Obama and his adminstration are...we are writing American history which will say Obama and this government has coward to the Russians at every fucking turn.

Also word on the street is Afghanistan and their own armies of jahidists are amped up that Russia has entered the Syrian thing. They are pissed. Expect more armed taliban and Muslims extremists from Afghanistan to travel to Syria in hopes of engaging Russians.

Can this powder keg get any effing hotter?

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The air incursions into Turkey are worrisome. Even if it doesn't result in firefights, if Putin thinks he can mess with a NATO ally's border with impunity, then what does that mean for Latvia, and Estonia.

But no worries, cuz he's just a misunderstood meglomaniac. No big issues there.

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Honestly, are we sure that if the rebels the US supports win, we won't end up with a new Libya or ISIS?

I think Russia supporting Assad might be the best option now. especially if there's any truth to rumors that Russia and Assad are willing for Assad to step down gradually.

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[QUOTE=HailGreen28;1124478]Honestly, are we sure that if the rebels the US supports win, we won't end up with a new Libya or ISIS?

I think Russia supporting Assad might be the best option now. especially if there's any truth to rumors that Russia and Assad are willing for Assad to step down gradually.[/QUOTE]
This may be so. Its a huge quagmire and letting Russia get stuck in it might not be a bad thing.

The problem is how far is Putin willing to push to re-establish Russian power. Everything he has done has been incremental international cat and mouse games.

Add in Shiite and Sunni factionalism and explosive reactions can happen

Sent from my S6 Edge

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[quote=CRedskinsRule;1124481]This may be so. Its a huge quagmire and letting Russia get stuck in it might not be a bad thing.

The problem is how far is Putin willing to push to re-establish Russian power. Everything he has done has been incremental international cat and mouse games.

Add in Shiite and Sunni factionalism and explosive reactions can happen

Sent from my S6 Edge[/quote]The situation has been a dumpster fire for awhile. We did nothing to stop the sunni and shia from coming to blows in iraq, we did nothing to stop Turkey from bombing the kurds, now Putin is bombing Syrian rebels we support. And the funny thing to me about that is, technically the Russians are there legally being invited by the current sovereign government, and we are not legally invited there.

Guess blaming Bush for this whole mess, even though he left office several years ago, is easier than trying to make hard decisions in the middle east. And no, I'm not talking about just more military force. [URL="https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2015/09/15/the-west-dismissed-russian-offer-to-help-remove-assad-in-2012-says-top-diplomat/"]The West dismissed Russian offer to help remove Assad in 2012, says top diplomat.[/URL]

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I agree with your whole first paragraph. And though I don't know where blaming Bush factors in, I also agree that our politicians as a whole just won't make hard decisions but rather seek more simplistic answers (ie bomb em into submission, or we can all be friends if we hold hands and smile).



Sent from my S6 Edge

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[quote=HailGreen28;1124498]The situation has been a dumpster fire for awhile. We did nothing to stop the sunni and shia from coming to blows in iraq, we did nothing to stop Turkey from bombing the kurds, now Putin is bombing Syrian rebels we support. And the funny thing to me about that is, technically the Russians are there legally being invited by the current sovereign government, and we are not legally invited there.

Guess blaming Bush for this whole mess, even though he left office several years ago, is easier than trying to make hard decisions in the middle east. And no, I'm not talking about just more military force. [URL="https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2015/09/15/the-west-dismissed-russian-offer-to-help-remove-assad-in-2012-says-top-diplomat/"]The West dismissed Russian offer to help remove Assad in 2012, says top diplomat.[/URL][/quote]

[url]http://finance.yahoo.com/news/looks-obama-falling-biggest-myth-120000597.html[/url]

Kind of at odds with this article that said obama agreed with Russia/Iran to not really go hard at Assad bc Russia/Iran agreed to help transition Assad out.

Now, clearly, Russia and Iran have no intention of transitioning from Assad and have doubled down.

I for the most part am an Obama supporter but the murica! part of me says "lets puff out our chest and show them whose boss" ..... but another side of me is like "why are we soo overly involved in the ME?'. I understand we have to support SA and oil prices etc.

cant we maintain a superior economic and military advantage if we diverted the trillions in resources to another strategy?

the ME is like a game of Monopoly to me. Super powers are just proxy fighting for property on the boards to maintain or gain a monopoly.

only now Russia and Iran arent just proxy fighting anymore.

im sure russia knows not to have an accidental incident w one of our planes bc im sure russia wants us to stay non-committed.

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How long until Iraq formally request the US out of Iraq so Russia can move in?

Im sure there is some agreement btw Iraq and the US that allows the US to stay for a future determinable time but i think at some point Iraq will make the request anyway.

As the world turns.

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[quote=over the mountain;1124506][url]http://finance.yahoo.com/news/looks-obama-falling-biggest-myth-120000597.html[/url]

Kind of at odds with this article that said obama agreed with Russia/Iran to not really go hard at Assad bc Russia/Iran agreed to help transition Assad out.[/quote]What the article completely missed is the way Russia and US want to accomplish their goals. US has been trying arming groups and sanctions to fight SA (Syrian Army, Assad's forces). Russia is trying supporting the SA with material, troops if necessary, and airstrikes (many against the rebels the US supports).

[quote=over the mountain;1124506]Now, clearly, Russia and Iran have no intention of transitioning from Assad and have doubled down. [/quote]Wrong.

[URL="http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/rest-of-world/Putin-meets-Saudi-prince-on-political-solution-in-Syria/articleshow/49316166.cms"]Putin meets Saudi prince on 'political solution' in Syria[/URL]

The "political compromise", discussed for a long time by RUS, is over the removal of Assad.

The difference between Russia and US goals, is US wants to transition from rebel victors to democracy (not realistic given Libya, Iraq, etc.), and Russia wants to transition from Assad regime to similar Russian-aligned regime (may be least of evils there, at least it's not ISIS.)

[quote=over the mountain;1124506]I for the most part am an Obama supporter but the murica! part of me says "lets puff out our chest and show them whose boss" ..... but another side of me is like "why are we soo overly involved in the ME?'. I understand we have to support SA and oil prices etc.

cant we maintain a superior economic and military advantage if we diverted the trillions in resources to another strategy?

the ME is like a game of Monopoly to me. Super powers are just proxy fighting for property on the boards to maintain or gain a monopoly. [/quote]Oil still makes the world (economically) go round. One good thing about running out of "peak oil", will be much of ME going back to being safely ignored.

[quote=over the mountain;1124506]only now Russia and Iran arent just proxy fighting anymore.

im sure russia knows not to have an accidental incident w one of our planes bc im sure russia wants us to stay non-committed.[/quote]I wouldn't be surprised if something like that has already happened, and it's kept under wraps because neither US or RUS want a direct confrontation there.

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I really don't see how the ME can't explode into a major war, though I hope it doesn't.

The latest tidbit :
[url=http://news.yahoo.com/u-confirms-iran-tested-nuclear-capable-ballistic-missile-154328052.html]U.S. confirms Iran tested nuclear-capable ballistic missile[/url]

So they violated a UNSC resolution that they had said would stay in effect until the whole new deal takes place.

The situation reminds me of Pre WWI Europe in so many ways, I just wonder what nutjob will shoot the shot that leads down to global warfare.

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[SIZE=5]WHAT?????[/SIZE]
Iran testing a Nuke delivery system....But, but how can that be. The Peace Loving Muslims said...they'd be good???
Wait a minute...they must need the delivery vehicle in conjunction with they're Nuclear power plants, right?
It is shocking what is passing for leadership in this country.......

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The missile — named Emad, or pillar — is a step up from Iran’s Shahab-3 missiles because it can be guided toward its target, the[B] Iranian defense minister, Hossein Dehghan[/B], told the semiofficial Fars news agency. In recent decades, with Iran’s air force plagued by economic sanctions and other restrictions, the country has invested heavily in [B]its nuclear program and has produced missiles that can reach as far as Europe.
[/B]
“[B]We don’t seek permission from anyone to strengthen our defense and missile capabilities,” Mr. Dehghan said.[/B]


..............cool

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[quote=Hog1;1125592]The missile — named Emad, or pillar — is a step up from Iran’s Shahab-3 missiles because it can be guided toward its target, the[B] Iranian defense minister, Hossein Dehghan[/B], told the semiofficial Fars news agency. In recent decades, with Iran’s air force plagued by economic sanctions and other restrictions, the country has invested heavily in [B]its nuclear program and has produced missiles that can reach as far as Europe.
[/B]
“[B]We don’t seek permission from anyone to strengthen our defense and missile capabilities,” Mr. Dehghan said.[/B]


..............cool[/quote]Yeah, I think this news surprises no one but the most delusional people.

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Hey Jihadi John, when you mess with the best, you'll die like the rest. Red, White, and BOOM. -Merica

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[url=http://www.cnn.com/2015/11/13/world/paris-shooting/index.html]Paris attacks: 60 reported killed - CNN.com[/url]

We keep our head buried in the sand...

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[quote=Chico23231;1128398][url=http://www.cnn.com/2015/11/13/world/paris-shooting/index.html]Paris attacks: 60 reported killed - CNN.com[/url]

We keep our head buried in the sand...[/quote]

Isn't that total up to 118 now? Fucking sad assholes have to do shit like this.

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[quote=NC_Skins;1128406]Isn't that total up to 118 now? Fucking sad assholes have to do shit like this.[/quote]

Pretty sad to hear folks on msnbc say don't be quick to blame Islam terrorist. Gotta love the it. Keep your head buried in the sand...that the left plan.

Folks have zero clue that Syria and Iraq have been training ground for these sick fucks. The Obama administration is complicit and don't have any fucking answers.

Like it's been mentioned b4...this is ww3. But it's easier to dismiss that thought. Forget al Qaeda...Isis is on another level.

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I'm ready to deploy when needes. Hooah.

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[quote=skinsfaninok;1128416]I'm ready to deploy when needes. Hooah.[/quote]

Of course you are becuase your the best in the world.

But yet we are lead by a child who hasn't done a fucking thing the second half of his presidency and who has let these situations develop.

Folks no one should be surprised by the Paris horrific event. If you have paid attention the last couple years to the Middle East, this move has been telegraphed.

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[QUOTE=Chico23231;1128441]Of course you are becuase your the best in the world.

But yet we are lead by a child who hasn't done a fucking thing the second half of his presidency and who has let these situations develop.

Folks no one should be surprised by the Paris horrific event. If you have paid attention the last couple years to the Middle East, this move has been telegraphed.[/QUOTE]
I'm not a Obama hater or fan but I do agree with the middle east going this way for a while now. It's not going to stop

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[quote=skinsfaninok;1128442]I'm not a Obama hater or fan but I do agree with the middle east going this way for a while now. It's not going to stop[/quote]

Benghazi, Ukraine, crimean, Syria, Iraq, Isis, Iran deal, Charlie hebdo, Russian plane in Egypt and now Paris...

Yet our president refuses to say "Islamic" terrorist.

Folks Isis has set up franchises across the world...they have been a threat since day one and this administration has never had a plan. We have let this happen.

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Putin will put that shit to an end quick. People don't like him here but he don't play

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[quote=skinsfaninok;1128444]Putin will put that shit to an end quick. People don't like him here but he don't play[/quote]

He has big balls and let's them swing.

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we will strike America at its center in Washington," the man said.

[url=http://news.yahoo.com/islamic-state-threatens-attack-washington-other-countries-122051922.html]Islamic State threatens attack on Washington, other countries[/url]

Not a matter of if, but when.

I cant imagine all of the plotted attacks in the US that have probably been thwarted that we dont know about. No matter what we do, who is president, etc. .... a terrorist attack is going to happen in DC.

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[quote=over the mountain;1128908]we will strike America at its center in Washington," the man said.

[url=http://news.yahoo.com/islamic-state-threatens-attack-washington-other-countries-122051922.html]Islamic State threatens attack on Washington, other countries[/url]

Not a matter of if, but when.

I cant imagine all of the plotted attacks in the US that have probably been thwarted that we dont know about. No matter what we do, who is president, etc. .... a terrorist attack is going to happen in DC.[/quote]

Lets see, in the last 2 weeks they downed a Russian plane, major bombing in Beirut and the Paris terrorist attack while battling the Iranians, Syrians, Free Syrian Armies, Russians, US-back Iraqis, and Peshmerga/Yadiz armies on several fronts.

Who is to say they cant do it?

This president and his administration better get their head out of their asses.

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It's more than slightly baffling that they haven't brought the fight to the cities here. Fact is, as most liberals will gladly tell you, there is easier access to weapons here. We know that you can have mass shootings, we have them here. I get that an NFL game might be well secured, but think about the Colorado movie theater shooter. Imagine that scene repeated at 100 random movie theaters, or maybe at a specific movie release.

I am thankful there hasn't been one, but something must be holding them back. (in my opinion)

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I was embarrassed by that performance by the president at the g20 today. What a speech, he looks so weak right now.

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[url=http://news.yahoo.com/king-jordan-warns-world-war-against-humanity-161351407.html]King of Jordan warns of 'world war' against humanity[/url]

This guy gets it.

Could you imagine what all the PC folks would do if our president said this:

"We are facing a third world war against humanity and this is what brings us all together," he told a press conference.

"[B]This is a war, as I've said repeatedly, within Islam[/B]," he said, stressing the high number of Muslim victims of the Islamic State (IS) group.

Abdullah said groups such as IS "expose themselves daily as savage outlaws of religion, devoid of humanity, respecting no laws and no boundaries".

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ISIS is still not our battle imo. Obama has kept our involvement and cost in this pretty limited compared to what i assume a Jeb Bush type would do. Obama won bc the american people wanted to withdraw our troops and resources from the ME. I dont want us to be committed to a long term "boots on ground" type situation. it didnt work in Afghanistan and it wont work in Syria/Iraq.

We should stay part of a coalition, supporting but not leading europe, jordan, SA etc.

Obama has done a great job of keeping us out of the ME as much as possible. Down side is he will get blamed for looking weak and if something happens his policy of disengagement will be blamed ... regardless of whether a "boots on the ground and a perpetual occupation" campaign would have prevented anything.

ME is fucked. damned if you do, damned if you dont. i dont understand it. way to many moving parts and blurry lines.

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OTM, question...did you support the Afghan invasion, the Iraq war part deux, or the Bush initiated Troop surge of 2007 in Iraq?

follow up question

of these national security threats : Taliban/al qaeda network (afghan invasion), Saddam Hussain, Iraqi insurgency/secretarian violence/civil war, or ISIS (2013-?) is the biggest to our country at the time?

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[quote=Chico23231;1129082]OTM, question...did you support the Afghan invasion, the Iraq war part deux, or the Bush initiated Troop surge of 2007 in Iraq?

follow up question

of these national security threats : Taliban/al qaeda network (afghan invasion), Saddam Hussain, Iraqi insurgency/secretarian violence/civil war, or ISIS (2013-?) is the biggest to our country at the time?[/quote]

No to the 3 initial questions. for the most part im a libertarian. its conflicting. i would love for us to completely disengage from these proxy like ME problems that just seem to increase and grow with no end in sight while spending a ton of money on Navy and air force so we can deal with the chinas and putins if needed.

but on the other hand, we cant turn a complete blind eye and allow insurgents to become ISIS capable or worse .....

idk man, i have no answers. id let the ME police the ME.

our greatest allies are the pacific and atlantic ocean. we are on the complete opposite side of the workd where all these problems occur.

ME is a shit show and no one has an answer. its not an obama failure, its not a bush failure. there is no way to truly win the game.

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[url=http://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-34864193]Honduras arrests five US-bound Syrians with stolen passports - BBC News[/url]

Syrians with fake Greek passports trying to come through our leaky Mexican border...folks we refuse to secure the border, we refuse to come up with a Isis strategy...it's coming home to roost.

This administration...

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[quote=over the mountain;1129078]ISIS is still not our battle imo. Obama has kept our involvement and cost in this pretty limited compared to what i assume a Jeb Bush type would do. Obama won bc the american people wanted to withdraw our troops and resources from the ME. [B]I dont want us to be committed to a long term "boots on ground" type situation. it didnt work in Afghanistan and it wont work in Syria/Iraq. [/B]

We should stay part of a coalition, supporting but not leading europe, jordan, SA etc.

Obama has done a great job of keeping us out of the ME as much as possible. Down side is he will get blamed for looking weak and if something happens his policy of disengagement will be blamed ... regardless of whether a "boots on the ground and a perpetual occupation" campaign would have prevented anything.

ME is fucked. damned if you do, damned if you dont. i dont understand it. way to many moving parts and blurry lines.[/quote]

Europe was just as crazy in the early 1900's, and one of the things that finally resolved it was long term US presence - obviously other factors around the 2 WW's as well. I think, and I know I am heavily in the minority, that the US missed an opportunity to set up a long term solution by investing in bases in Iraq at the end of the last war. Instead of pulling out, and creating the dreaded political vacuum we now see being filled, an all in strategy, incorporating Egypt, Israel, Jordan, Iraq and Saudi Arabia with joint training, full US bases would have at worst created an equivalent of a cold war shell like Europe from the 60's to 90's, with Iran/Russia/Syria playing a losing hand. Yes some level of attacks would be there at first, because unlike WW2, the enemy wasn't thoroughly defeated, but a US led coalition of moderate Arab States, with Israel, would have created an economic zone of influence that extremists would lose out to in the long run.

but that's not happening in this universe, and more powerful attacks are coming shortly.

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[url=http://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/pentagon-2-u-s-navy-boats-held-iran-military-n495031]Pentagon: 2 U.S. Navy Boats With 10 American Sailors Held by Iran Military - NBC News[/url]