Re: Kirk Cousins Expected To Start Sunday
 

[quote=KI Skins Fan;1048711]Please knock off any metaphors alluding to politics and the so-called race card. THANK YOU![/quote]

Done. and you're Welcome.

Re: Kirk Cousins Expected To Start Sunday
 

[quote=Mattyk;1048717]If you're taking the poll results at face value and ignoring the discussion, call it lunch room talk or whatever, but you're missing the point if that's what you're doing.

I for one don't agree with him sitting, I think he needs the reps and he's far from the only guy out there struggling, but a small part of me is glad there's no risk in him getting hurt now.

And I still think Shanny is a rat bastard who could really care less about his health and there are personal motives at play. If he really was concerned about his health he would have sat him down to start the season.[/quote]

I agree with most of what you said, but if RG3 was able to play I'd say he was playing because of $$$.

I'll agree he needs reps but two things I don't now and that is... was truly MS's decisions to bench RG3? and is playing Cousins a last chance to keep his job? or question 3- are we just show casing Cousins for a trade?

Q-1: Could it have been Snyder who called the meeting and said shut him down so he doesn't get hurt? and let MS say whatever to save face.

Q-2: Could there have been an agreement between DS, Allen, and MS that if he can show it's not the scheme and Cousins plays well then DS will give him the final year to fix this?

Q-3: or was MS ordered to play Cousins to show case him for trade bait?

Some of these questions might answer why MS said RG3 needed the reps then a week later said they were going to protect him and bench him.

Also the field is atrocious. I think it was worse then last year final game which damaged RG3's knee the most and they are expecting more snow this Sat which will not help the field unless they have a tarp on it.

Re: Kirk Cousins Expected To Start Sunday
 

[quote=Skins4L;1048651]glad 43% of the forum agree to bench rg3. haha ur "agreeing" with a coach whos getting canned based on that dumb move. way to go boys[/quote]

Shanny is being canned because of his poor record. Horrible with picking QBs, his historically bad defense, and the worst special teams I ever saw period (including Pop Warner).

Re: Kirk Cousins Expected To Start Sunday
 

[quote=Mattyk;1048731]If you have to clarify why you're not a racist... you're probably a racist. lol[/quote]

LOL, how the crap just got thrown back in my face. LOL :hitfan:

Re: Kirk Cousins Expected To Start Sunday
 

[quote=Gary84Clark;1048740]Shanny is being canned because of his poor record. Horrible with picking QBs, his historically bad defense, and the worst special teams I ever saw period (including Pop Warner).[/quote]

How we all might be surprised if MS is NOT fired. If Cousins plays well for 3 games then it would point to the problem being RG3 not the system or coaching.

I hope to heck though that if they decide to keep MS then they gotta, gotta, gotta fire Haslett and Burns and bring in a decent DC (not Morris) and a decent Special Teams Coordinator.

Re: Kirk Cousins Expected To Start Sunday
 

Regardless of what Cousins does the D and ST are still a big mess and Shanahan will have 3 of 4 losing seasons on his hands here. He deserves to be fired for his poor W/L record and these last 3 games aren't going to make up for that.

Re: Kirk Cousins Expected To Start Sunday
 

Nevermind. My joke wasn't really funny.

Re: Kirk Cousins Expected To Start Sunday
 

[quote=SBXVII;1048738]I agree with most of what you said, but if RG3 was able to play I'd say he was playing because of $$$.

I'll agree he needs reps but two things I don't now and that is... was truly MS's decisions to bench RG3? and is playing Cousins a last chance to keep his job? or question 3- are we just show casing Cousins for a trade?

Q-1: Could it have been Snyder who called the meeting and said shut him down so he doesn't get hurt? and let MS say whatever to save face.

Q-2: Could there have been an agreement between DS, Allen, and MS that if he can show it's not the scheme and Cousins plays well then DS will give him the final year to fix this?

Q-3: or was MS ordered to play Cousins to show case him for trade bait?

Some of these questions might answer why MS said RG3 needed the reps then a week later said they were going to protect him and bench him.

Also the field is atrocious. I think it was worse then last year final game which damaged RG3's knee the most and they are expecting more snow this Sat which will not help the field unless they have a tarp on it.[/quote]

Some people like to visit the assumption room around here, but I've gotta say you're taking up residency in assumption city. Wow.

Re: Kirk Cousins Expected To Start Sunday
 

[quote=SBXVII;1048742]How we all might be surprised if MS is NOT fired. If Cousins plays well for 3 games then it would point to the problem being RG3 not the system or coaching.

I hope to heck though that if they decide to keep MS then they gotta, gotta, gotta fire Haslett and Burns and bring in a decent DC (not Morris) and a decent Special Teams Coordinator.[/quote]


RG3 does not play special teams or defense. As soon as the Redskins get down by double digits, it's gonna get ugly. I saw Kirk's quarter Sunday, offensive line looks the same. He took a beating. Kirk is not Tebow.

Re: Kirk Cousins Expected To Start Sunday
 

[quote=SBXVII;1048742]How we all might be surprised if MS is NOT fired. If Cousins plays well for 3 games then it would point to the problem being RG3 not the system or coaching.

I hope to heck though that if they decide to keep MS then they gotta, gotta, gotta fire Haslett and Burns and bring in a decent DC (not Morris) and a decent Special Teams Coordinator.[/quote]

If cousins plays well it will be because the Skins played the Falcons (29th ranked D), The Giants (21st ranked D), and the Cowboys... possibly the Worst defense ever. If he actually was concerned for RG3 or wanted to give Cousins a chance he would have benched him against KC. Except Shanahan knows KC would kill Cousins too so he would look like an idiot, which in my opinion, he already does.

I think this was well calculated move by Shanahan for future coaching jobs for him or his son.

Re: Kirk Cousins Expected To Start Sunday
 

SBXVII, Shannahan brought in RG3 and made the trade. If RG3 is a bust then Shannhan must go because he perpetrated that draft pick fiasco. Either way Shanny's record is poor.

Re: Kirk Cousins Expected To Start Sunday
 

This is like the Middle Ages debate about how many angels can stand on the point of a pin.

Who gives a damn about the true reasons why Shanahan shut down RGIII? He and his entire coaching staff will soon be gone. That's what is important.

I can hardly wait to wave bye-bye to them so I can start bitching about the new guy and his staff.

Re: Kirk Cousins Expected To Start Sunday
 

[quote=SBXVII;1048697]Such a great line, just like the one Obama and his administration uses when someone does not agree with his policies...."your a racist."[/quote]


One track mind obsessed with Obama. i said Tebow and he said Obama??? WTH?

Re: Kirk Cousins Expected To Start Sunday
 

[quote=HailGreen28;1048710]Currently the thread poll agrees with Shanny. Debating the merits is cool, and people here have made a lot of good points for and against. People arguing over just rationale is lunch room talk, IMO.

I thought the rationale Shanny said in his presser was that he didn't want RG3 getting hurt. And some people agree with that, I think. (I'm torn, sure playing in the NFL any regular position means getting blasted, but reps would be good for RG3.)[/quote]

Reps don't mean anything if you are just repeating bad mechanics. Get him with a QB coach and get his mechanics straightened out before next season.

Re: Kirk Cousins Expected To Start Sunday
 

From Profootballtalk.com:

"Last night’s NFL Network pregame show included a lively discussion regarding the still-unfolding situation in Washington.

[B]Former Cowboys teammates Michael Irvin and Deion Sanders [/B]argued about the treatment Robert Griffin III has received in Washington."

I am so glad I missed this.

Re: Kirk Cousins Expected To Start Sunday
 

[quote=KI Skins Fan;1048757]From Profootballtalk.com:

"Last night’s NFL Network pregame show included a lively discussion regarding the still-unfolding situation in Washington.

[B]Former Cowboys teammates Michael Irvin and Deion Sanders [/B]argued about the treatment Robert Griffin III has received in Washington."

I am so glad I missed this.[/quote]


ELi nor Peyton would have been treated this way. Believe me Eli had a more horrid start to his career than RG3 .

Re: Kirk Cousins Expected To Start Sunday
 

[quote=Gary84Clark;1048758]ELi nor Peyton would have been treated this way. Believe me Eli had a more horrid start to his career than RG3 .[/quote]
Eli has been worse THIS YEAR than RG3. Guy has won the Super Bowl twice and he's not as good as the guy Shanahan just sat.

Re: Kirk Cousins Expected To Start Sunday
 

[quote=Gary84Clark;1048748]SBXVII, Shannahan brought in RG3 and made the trade. If RG3 is a bust then Shannhan must go because he perpetrated that draft pick fiasco. Either way Shanny's record is poor.[/quote]

I don't argue the poor record, but just because MS is the HC and RG3 was drafted does not mean RG3 was MS's guy and he wanted him and we all should blame MS for picking RG3.

WE all have seen in the past and heard years later that Snyder wanted a specific player or Cerrato wanted a specific player and the HC didn't want them. I'd believe you had these things not happened before. Then the rumor that Cousins was drafted because MS really wanted Cousins.

If RG3 was truly MS's guy and the face of the Franchise then there was no need to draft Cousins or any QB so high after RG3. We could have picked up a 6th rounder or 7th rounder to ride the bench or hold a clip board. The only fiasco I see is a possible QB controversy if Cousins plays well in these last 3 games. The problem is Snyder probably does not want to fire MS and pay him 7 mill as well as pay another coach 7 mill.

Also do any of the other coaches get the same treatment in regards to getting paid even if they are fired? I doubt DS wants to pay this whole coaching staff if he fires them and another coaching staff to do the job. It's easy for us fans to say "Fire Shanahan" but that's because it's not coming out of our pockets.

Re: Kirk Cousins Expected To Start Sunday
 

[quote=Gary84Clark;1048746]RG3 does not play special teams or defense. As soon as the Redskins get down by double digits, it's gonna get ugly. I saw Kirk's quarter Sunday, offensive line looks the same. He took a beating. Kirk is not Tebow.[/quote]

Wait... does that mean he's better? I'm asking cause I think Tebow is not a good QB.

Everyone thought drew brees wasn't any good after he left SD and now look at the guy. Patience people

Re: Kirk Cousins Expected To Start Sunday
 

[quote=SBXVII;1048786]Wait... does that mean he's better? I'm asking cause I think Tebow is not a good QB.[/quote]

His body type is inferior.

Re: Kirk Cousins Expected To Start Sunday
 

[quote=donofriose;1048747]If cousins plays well it will be because the Skins played the Falcons (29th ranked D), The Giants (21st ranked D), and the Cowboys... possibly the Worst defense ever. If he actually was concerned for RG3 or wanted to give Cousins a chance he would have benched him against KC. Except Shanahan knows KC would kill Cousins too so he would look like an idiot, which in my opinion, he already does.

I think this was well calculated move by Shanahan for future coaching jobs for him or his son.[/quote]

Ok, so I guess the coaches mind set is "hey, if I bench the 90% healthy starting QB with 3 meaningless games left and claim I'm protecting him then some other team will look at that as being brilliant and hire me." ? That does not make sense since most here seem to think its a dumb idiot move.

I think MS and KS would have gotten picked up somewhere else no matter what. I mean look at Marty Schottenheimer and his son. Marty moved to several teams but kept getting picked up. His son is with the Rams right now but didn't coach well with the Jets his final year.

I think owners are smart enough to know that its not just about putting together a great coaching staff but also having great players who buy into the system. If any one of the three are bad (coaching, system, or players) then no play offs, no SB. But sometimes its a crap shoot. A very expensive crap shoot putting together the right mix.

Re: Kirk Cousins Expected To Start Sunday
 

[quote=KI Skins Fan;1048751]This is like the Middle Ages debate about how many angels can stand on the point of a pin.

Who gives a damn about the true reasons why Shanahan shut down RGIII? He and his entire coaching staff will soon be gone. That's what is important.

I can hardly wait to wave bye-bye to them so I can start bitching about the new guy and his staff.[/quote]

Don't bring Religion into this debate.

Re: Kirk Cousins Expected To Start Sunday
 

[quote=SBXVII;1048785]I don't argue the poor record, but just because MS is the HC and RG3 was drafted does not mean RG3 was MS's guy and he wanted him and we all should blame MS for picking RG3.

WE all have seen in the past and heard years later that Snyder wanted a specific player or Cerrato wanted a specific player and the HC didn't want them. I'd believe you had these things not happened before. Then the rumor that Cousins was drafted because MS really wanted Cousins.

If RG3 was truly MS's guy and the face of the Franchise then there was no need to draft Cousins or any QB so high after RG3. We could have picked up a 6th rounder or 7th rounder to ride the bench or hold a clip board. The only fiasco I see is a possible QB controversy if Cousins plays well in these last 3 games. The problem is Snyder probably does not want to fire MS and pay him 7 mill as well as pay another coach 7 mill.

Also do any of the other coaches get the same treatment in regards to getting paid even if they are fired? I doubt DS wants to pay this whole coaching staff if he fires them and another coaching staff to do the job. It's easy for us fans to say "Fire Shanahan" but that's because it's not coming out of our pockets.[/quote]

I heard if they remove the entire coaching staff it would cost around 20 million dollars. Not sure of the exact number though.

Mike had the final say on personnel decisions so if he didn't want RG3, he should have said no. It is irrelevant if Snyder was pushing for him or not. Shanahan was in control, not Snyder.

Re: Kirk Cousins Expected To Start Sunday
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;1048787]Everyone thought drew brees wasn't any good after he left SD and now look at the guy. Patience people[/quote]

yeah i lived in san diego at that time and the few chargers fans that existed were split with "hes okay" or "we need to upgrade".

a lot like jason campbell discussions here (not that they were similar skill sets, just the split opinion amongst fans).

Ultimately they didnt have a talented all-around team and didnt give brees many weapons to work with in the receiving corps. I think they brought in a washed up david boston and fans thought brees had all the help he needed.

Alot like the skins now, bad coaching with an incomplete team

rg3 will be a stud.

Re: Kirk Cousins Expected To Start Sunday
 

[quote=SBXVII;1048789]Ok, so I guess the coaches mind set is "hey, if I bench the 90% healthy starting QB with 3 meaningless games left and claim I'm protecting him then some other team will look at that as being brilliant and hire me." ? That does not make sense since most here seem to think its a dumb idiot move.

I think MS and KS would have gotten picked up somewhere else no matter what. I mean look at Marty Schottenheimer and his son. Marty moved to several teams but kept getting picked up. His son is with the Rams right now but didn't coach well with the Jets his final year.

I think owners are smart enough to know that its not just about putting together a great coaching staff but also having great players who buy into the system. If any one of the three are bad (coaching, system, or players) then no play offs, no SB. But sometimes its a crap shoot. A very expensive crap shoot putting together the right mix.[/quote]

No, I think Kyle and Mike can say it was Snyder and RG3's fault for our failures, not ours. I believe that is their end game. Mike might not coach again and I think people around the league are starting to like Kyle less and less. But I agree coaches get a lot of chances they do not deserve... Like Mike Shanahan in Washington.

Well Shanahan was in control of coaching, the system, and having the final decision on players (even more than Allen from what I read). So I guess Snyder trusted the wrong guy in order to fix all three of the problems that Washington has had the past 20 years.

Re: Kirk Cousins Expected To Start Sunday
 

[quote=Gary84Clark;1048752]One track mind obsessed with Obama. i said Tebow and he said Obama??? WTH?[/quote]

I'm sorry it appeared you were making a wise crack about the people making negative comments about RG3 must be Tebow lovers and are "going hard against RG3."

Seemed like a negative dig to me referring to all who didn't have 100% positive things to say about RG3. My bad. I didn't know you did not mean to use that statement in that context. Thus my comment about how people who don't like hearing negative things about Obama quickly use the "your a racist" comment.

Again I apologize for mis reading you. ;)

Re: Kirk Cousins Expected To Start Sunday
 

[quote=donofriose;1048791]I heard if they remove the entire coaching staff it would cost around 20 million dollars. Not sure of the exact number though.

Mike had the final say on personnel decisions so if he didn't want RG3, he should have said no. It is irrelevant if Snyder was pushing for him or not. Shanahan was in control, not Snyder.[/quote]

So imagine 20 mill and then paying a whole new group to coach this team. As long as it's not my money ... I'm all for it, but I'd bet DS would raise the ticket prices yet again to off set it.

I thought decisions were made by all 3, DS-Allen-MS. but even so if your boss comes to you and say hey I want this guy... do you tell him no when he's paying your salary? or do you get his guy and still go out and pick the QB you think is better?

Re: Kirk Cousins Expected To Start Sunday
 

[quote=SBXVII;1048796]So imagine 20 mill and then paying a whole new group to coach this team. As long as it's not my money ... I'm all for it, but I'd bet DS would raise the ticket prices yet again to off set it.

I thought decisions were made by all 3, DS-Allen-MS. but even so if your boss comes to you and say hey I want this guy... do you tell him no when he's paying your salary? or do you get his guy and still go out and pick the QB you think is better?[/quote]

Snyder isn't going to raise ticket prices for the coaching staff. Tickets are more about supply and demand than how much you pay for coaches. He saw the stadium last weekend, the lack of demand will be more of a problem than paying a new coaching staff.

From what I read and heard Mike had the final decision. Similar to Carroll in Seattle, or Jimmy Johnson of the Cowboys when they were a dynasty. It isn't a coincidence that ever since Jerry Jones has had the final decision the Cowboys have been mediocre. Snyder, I'm sure approached him about RG3, but Mike came in telling Snyder that he will have complete control, told Snyder who the GM will be, and Snyder still paid him.

Honestly, if my salary was guaranteed, like Mike's is, I would make the decisions I thought would be best for the team. If snyder fired him he would still get paid so why would he care. He could probably get a job at another place because he would have evidence of Snyder trying to do too much. Then the entire Redskins would nation would hate Snyder even more.

Re: Kirk Cousins Expected To Start Sunday
 

[quote=Mattyk;1048731]If you have to clarify why you're not a racist... you're probably a racist. lol[/quote]

Boom

[QUOTE=HailGreen28;1048706]In answer to your question: I've said, and still think, Cousins should have started until RG3 was healthy. I understand as long as we could make a run like last season, we wanted RG3 to play and hoped he'd do well. He hasn't done bad, it's just obvious he's not at 100%. I'm undecided on whether it would be better for him now to get more live reps, or not risk further injury this season.

So answer me this question, punch: Why is there all this weird lunchroom banter (about Shanny's motives) dominating the board discussion now, and not back at the weeks one through 6?[/QUOTE]

Ummmm......because Griff wasnt deactivated/benched than?

Re: Kirk Cousins Expected To Start Sunday
 

[quote=SBXVII;1048795]I'm sorry it appeared you were making a wise crack about the people making negative comments about RG3 must be Tebow lovers and are "going hard against RG3."

Seemed like a negative dig to me referring to all who didn't have 100% positive things to say about RG3. My bad. I didn't know you did not mean to use that statement in that context. Thus my comment about how people who don't like hearing negative things about Obama quickly use the "your a racist" comment.

Again I apologize for mis reading you. ;)[/quote]

The same people I argue with on NFl.com about Tebow are now going after RG3 hard. That is why I said that. They hated RG3 attention and awards he received last year because it over shadowed Tebow's demise.

[QUOTE=HailGreen28;1048728]Yeah, I'm just looking at the poll numbers. And there's been some good discussion here. And RG3 hasn't been bad, just not the superman we saw last season.

I take your word Shanny's a bastard. So could he have played RG3 to start the season just to try getting back to the playoffs, and now that the season's over there's no reason to? That's what benching him once we're mathematically eliminated says to me.[/QUOTE]

But we were eliminated after the Giants game. He played him in the Chiefs game and when this all started is when he benched him.

Re: Kirk Cousins Expected To Start Sunday
 

[quote=Gary84Clark;1048808]The same people I argue with on NFl.com about Tebow are now going after RG3 hard. That is why I said that. They hated RG3 attention and awards he received last year because it over shadowed Tebow's demise.[/quote]

Then I do sincerely apologize. I happen to always root for the underdog. My two QB picks from the drafts were Weeden and Dalton. Not saying I know what I'm doing just that I liked them over the rest. Many of my friends were Tannehill fans. But then the RG3 wave hit and honestly I was not 100% on board with him nor Luck. I too didn't like all the attention he was getting. and because of that I'm excited to see Cousins finally getting his chance. He may do poorly but I know it rubs the RG3 fanatics the wrong way :)

Re: Kirk Cousins Expected To Start Sunday
 

[quote=punch it in;1048811]But we were eliminated after the Giants game. He played him in the Chiefs game and when this all started is when he benched him.[/quote]

Which is why it makes me wonder if MS saw how really bad the field was on Sun and changed his mind or if it came from above (DS) to bench RG3 to keep him from getting injured.

What we know is the team has only done well 1 year out of 4, DS was pissed after the last game and met with Allen, if not the same meeting then a seperate meeting came to pass over RG3 and ... I'm guessing more but we just don't know about it cause MS does not want to talk about what he and DS discussed or their relationship. I will say though that if the relationship was good I'm betting MS would have come out and said "we have a great relationship." If they don't most likely he won't say either way.

Re: Kirk Cousins Expected To Start Sunday
 

[quote=SBXVII;1048813]Which is why it makes me wonder if MS saw how really bad the field was on Sun and changed his mind or if it came from above (DS) to bench RG3 to keep him from getting injured. [/quote]



[IMG]http://replygif.net/i/114.gif[/IMG]

^ really all you can do at this point. Lol

Re: Kirk Cousins Expected To Start Sunday
 

[quote=punch it in;1048806]Ummmm......because Griff wasnt deactivated/benched than?[/quote]So people really are happy RG3's being benched now? My impression was that a lot of people here (even those grudgingly saying it was the right thing) were upset RG3 was benched. Because of "motives", and based on what Mattyk said I believe Shanny's being a ****, it's just at the point where Shanny can do nothing right (Play RG3: continue to get roasted for getting RG3 killed. Bench RG3: it's "why didn't he bench him before?").

[quote=punch it in;1048811]But we were eliminated after the Giants game. He played him in the Chiefs game and when this all started is when he benched him.[/quote]OK, you're right about being eliminated after the Giants game. Still, why all the fuss now if benching RG3 is what people wanted? I wanted to start Cousins on game one, I got over it. Worst I'd say now is "about time", but RG3 really hasn't played that bad. He's not running like his best, but the missed reads and throws look more like rust than injuries to me. (OK, game one I thought the bad throws were him not able to plant his right leg back before throwing but not now)

Re: Kirk Cousins Expected To Start Sunday
 

Maybe we get the 1st pick in the second round which is like a lower 1st round pick. Trade Cousin for a second round pick. all our other picks are at teh top of the round. Boom draft salvaged.

Re: Kirk Cousins Expected To Start Sunday
 

all the drama, speculation and conspiracy theories aside .. i dont think it is really all that bad.

- rg3 will get a full offseason
- FO will have money to spend in offseason
- We dont have any "bad" contracts on next years roster (no portis or AH)
- we have a franchise QB and LT (ill wait and see how morris looks in a new scheme)
- RG3 has weapons in garcon and reed
- all the coaches will get canned, building in a scapegoat to blame all the problems on and help everyone feel like it is a true fresh start = new air and atmosphere

we just need to finish this out with no serious injuries. ego and emotions aside.