Re: Let's impeach the president.
 

Crazyhorse,
Acccording to the U.S. Supreme Court (which, by the way, consists of people a lot smarter than either of us and who just might know a lot about the law), military tribunals that try unlawful enemy combatants are perfectly legal and not barred by ANY treaty signed by the U.S. Those military tribunals, which you call kangaroo courts, are "competent tribunals" under the GCs who CAN legally determine whether someone is an enemy combatant and can be denied POW status. Moreover, FDR used such military tribunals to try and execute Nazis who ended up on our shores to conduct sabotage operations. So, the use of tribunals is nothing new. Finally, when researching this stuff, please refer to U.S. case-law (including that which interprets international law).

PS - I'm still wondering where you found out that Rumsfeld [I]personally [/I]tortured a detainee.

Re: Let's impeach the president.
 

[quote=Crazyhorse1;314833]I don't usually see posts in which everything is absolutely misunderstood or flat out wrong because of disinformation, but here's a case in point.[/quote]
Quote:
Originally Posted by [B]firstdown[/B] [URL="http://www.redskinswarpath.com/redskins-warpath-parking-lot/18404-lets-impeach-the-president-post313953.html#post313953"][IMG]http://www.redskinswarpath.com/images/buttons/viewpost.gif[/IMG][/URL]
[I]Bush never said that Iraq had anything to do with 9/11 and even the 9/11 report said that there were links between Iraq and Bin Laden. There were some that said Iraq had no nuclear weapons but UN, Other major countries, most all in congress and senate, Bill Clinton, and many, many more said he did have them. Most of the debate at the time was not rather he had WMD's but was it worth going to war for. Many a politicians want you to think that they were tricked into the war but its just them trying to gt out of what they did.[/I]

So could you please tell me what in this post is flate out wrong.

Re: Let's impeach the president.
 

It always astounds me how strong are the two sides of this debate are in their convictions.

1- I would hate to see where this country would be and where our taxes would be if Kerry won the election. No matter how you look at it, we as a country still chose the lesser of two evils.

2- I would still LOVE for some Democrat to step up and tell me their full blown plans to correct things. Anyone can say "I can fix it", but the proof is in the pudding...can you actually fix it? For as much as we would like to complain about Bush and his policies etc, I don't think a single democrat could have done it better. I would actually have wagered we would have had a massive terrorist attack had a Republican / Bush not been in office.

Re: Let's impeach the president.
 

[quote]I don't think a single democrat could have done it better. [/quote]
Not sending us to Iraq in the first place would have been a good start.

Re: Let's impeach the president.
 

[QUOTE=Daseal;315197]Not sending us to Iraq in the first place would have been a good start.[/QUOTE]

See that's what he is talking about. All these Dems basically jusy say that. They have no answers other than "not what we are currently doing." That is why so many people look at the Dems as the party of no ideas. Of course just as many people look at the Reps as the party of bad ideas. Which is worse? I don't know. But years of doing nothing about Muslim extremists didn't do the job. It is time the Dems started saying what we should be doing to combat terrorism in general.

When people like John Edwards deny that there is even a war against terrorism it just shows have naive they are.

Re: Let's impeach the president.
 

[QUOTE=jsarno;315194]No matter how you look at it, we as a country still [B]chose the lesser of two evils[/B].[/QUOTE]

Every time I hear that I snicker inside and then realize what constitutes evil is a matter of prospective.

Re: Let's impeach the president.
 

[quote=Daseal;315197]Not sending us to Iraq in the first place would have been a good start.[/quote]


dems. & rep. both voted in support of bush to go to war in iraq.

Re: Let's impeach the president.
 

[quote=wolfeskins;315205]dems. & rep. both voted in support of bush to go to war in iraq.[/quote]


and that settles that

Re: Let's impeach the president.
 

[quote=FRPLG;315199]See that's what he is talking about. All these Dems basically jusy say that. They have no answers other than "not what we are currently doing." That is why so many people look at the Dems as the party of no ideas. Of course just as many people look at the Reps as the party of bad ideas. Which is worse? I don't know. But years of doing nothing about Muslim extremists didn't do the job. It is time the Dems started saying what we should be doing to combat terrorism in general.

When people like John Edwards deny that [B]there is even a war against[/B] [B]terrorism[/B] it just shows have naive they are.[/quote]
count me as one of those naive people. how the hell can you fight a war, when you really have no idea WHO the enemy is? time for us to pack our bags, and see how bad Iraq really wants a democracy. let them work for it, not have us there babysitting. and i always get a kick out of people that say democrats have no plan. can one person please tell what Geo. Bush's plan consists of? removing Hussein, and then what?

Re: Let's impeach the president.
 

Dmek,

I agree that Bush lacked a realistic post-Saddam Iraq plan, but I definately agree that the Dems have no plan either. And, I don't think that you can justify the Dems' lack of a plan by referencing Bush's lack of a plan. I've got to admit, as much as I disdain Bush's politics, I disdain the Dems as much. I think FRPLG is right in that the Dems keep criticizing Bush (which is easy and scores a lot of points with the public), but none of them, when pressed, can articulate what they would do differently. Sometimes they speak in platitudes to avoid being held to those statements, but none of them offer anything of substance. IMHO, if you can't offer an alternative, you should probably be quiet. I strongly disagree with those who are calling for an immediate withdrawal, but I can at least respect them for presenting Plan B.

Re: Let's impeach the president.
 

[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;315246]Dmek,

I agree that Bush lacked a realistic post-Saddam Iraq plan, but I definately agree that the Dems have no plan either. And, I don't think that you can justify the Dems' lack of a plan by referencing Bush's lack of a plan. I've got to admit, as much as I disdain Bush's politics, I disdain the Dems as much. I think FRPLG is right in that the Dems keep criticizing Bush (which is easy and scores a lot of points with the public), but none of them, when pressed, can articulate what they would do differently. Sometimes they speak in platitudes to avoid being held to those statements, but none of them offer anything of substance. IMHO, if you can't offer an alternative, you should probably be quiet. I strongly disagree with those who are calling for an immediate withdrawal, but I can at least respect them for presenting Plan B.[/quote]

Well, it's not like the Dems are the only ones critizing Bush. His own party has had harsh critism of both invading and exiting Iraq.The fact of the matter is each day that goes on makes an exit strategy much more complicated. There are bad options and worse options at this point.

Re: Let's impeach the president.
 

[QUOTE=dmek25;315226]count me as one of those naive people. how the hell can you fight a war, when you really have no idea WHO the enemy is? time for us to pack our bags, and see how bad Iraq really wants a democracy. let them work for it, not have us there babysitting. and i always get a kick out of people that say democrats have no plan. can one person please tell what Geo. Bush's plan consists of? removing Hussein, and then what?[/QUOTE]

Well, before this war started, Bush warned us it would take a LONG time to complete. He was right. We will leave when we are at an acceptable level of terrorism. We can not irradicate terrorism 100%, it's impossible, but when there are still many attacks, clearly the job is not yet done and therefore we should not pull out. Otherwise the lives we lost would be in vain, and a disgrace to each family. No point in starting something you can't finish, but we (especially Dems) are a group of quitters. It's the American way.

Why do we as Americans think we know everything? I have no freakin clue what is REALLY going on with this war, and neither do you because the powers that be have no intentions of telling us what is truely going on. Why would they? 1 person is intelligent, but put 300 million people together, and we are collectively dumb sheep. Dumb sheep panic. We give great advice sitting in our nice AC houses and comfy sofas and only knowing half of the story at best...it another story in what is ACTUALLY going on.

Re: Let's impeach the president.
 

[QUOTE=jsarno;315264]Well, before this war started, Bush warned us it would take a LONG time to complete. He was right. We will leave when we are at an acceptable level of terrorism. We can not irradicate terrorism 100%, it's impossible, but when there are still many attacks, clearly the job is not yet done and therefore we should not pull out. Otherwise the lives we lost would be in vain, and a disgrace to each family. No point in starting something you can't finish, but we (especially Dems) are a group of quitters. It's the American way.

Why do we as Americans think we know everything? I have no freakin clue what is REALLY going on with this war, and neither do you because the powers that be have no intentions of telling us what is truely going on. Why would they? 1 person is intelligent, but put 300 million people together, and we are collectively dumb sheep. Dumb sheep panic. We give great advice sitting in our nice AC houses and comfy sofas and only knowing half of the story at best...it another story in what is ACTUALLY going on.[/QUOTE]


Let me get this, the public is too stupid to get the big picture so it might be best for the government to pretend it doesn't exist? Hmm, perhaps the government should educate the public? Naaah, an educated public is dangerous because it won't fall for bullshit easily. Keep the people fat, dumb, and lazy I say.

Re: Let's impeach the president.
 

[QUOTE=saden1;315296]Let me get this, the public is too stupid to get the big picture so it might be best for the government to pretend it doesn't exist? Hmm, perhaps the government should educate the public? Naaah, an educated public is dangerous because it won't fall for bullshit easily. Keep the people fat, dumb, and lazy I say.[/QUOTE]

Wow, you have a lot of confidence in the general public. Again, 1 person is smart, 300 million are collectively stupid.

ps- the government has ALWAYS kept information from the general public...you expect them to start all of sudden telling you stuff now? We are on a need to know basis at best. That's not going to change.

Re: Let's impeach the president.
 

[QUOTE=FRPLG;315199]See that's what he is talking about. All these Dems basically jusy say that. They have no answers other than "not what we are currently doing." That is why so many people look at the Dems as the party of no ideas. Of course just as many people look at the Reps as the party of bad ideas. Which is worse? I don't know. But years of doing nothing about Muslim extremists didn't do the job. It is time the Dems started saying what we should be doing to combat terrorism in general.

When people like John Edwards deny that there is even a war against terrorism it just shows have naive they are.[/QUOTE]

They really are not naive, they know that thier ideas are not in the best interest of the country but they figure the end justifies the means once they get in, you see if they attack someone it's for the good of the people, but if another party does the same thing it's us making the world angry at us. Thier platform as a whole is based on opposition of the repub's, that is why they are the party of no ideas, they just take an opposite stance to the opposing party and make that thier platform, and usually have no solution or regard for the consquences of that opposition, or a better direction once they get thier wish.

Case and point, they want to make the opposition to the war on terror thier battle cry, in so doing hoping to gain support from people tired of the war, yet what will they do if they do take over to secure the safety of this nation? Just sit back and do nothing? Just say we wont bother you so you shouldn't bother us? They will sit around in ignorance until the next attack, 8 years of dems [Clinton] and we were attacked how many times? They attacked the WTC in I believe 94' and failed to drop it, the USS cole and almost sunk it, and 2 embassies in Kenya, and Tanzania [not to mention a billion dollars a year to N. Korea while 10's of thousands of people starved to death so N. Korea could develope a nucluer program] and what was done? Impossed santions? That did nothing but allow Bin Laden breathing room to cultivate the 9-11 attack which I might add should be credited to Clintons legacy, he laid the ground work with his failure to go after Bin Laden and his ilk to begin with, now we should stop chaseing this vermin because someone want's to be president? I may be wrong about this but I don't believe we have been attacked on our soil since 9-11. Keeping the enemy on the run is the best defense we have right now. Something the Dems want no part of! And for all those that think pulling out of Iraq and leaving Al Qaeda alone will settle the hostility and bring peace? Good luck and God bless, because we are a target and alway's will be!

If someone wants to make the case that we shouldn't be setting up a new gov't in Iraq? OK, but to say that we are not safer now for having gone in thier and having wiped out thier gov't structure is foolish.

I say leave them to themselves, set a major military base in Iraq to keep a strong hold in that region to keep an eye on the entire middle east which would allow us to strike at a moments notice if they try any funny buisness over here, or anywhere else for that matter, and confiscate the oil fields it's about time the people responsible for this so called Jihad against us start fitting the bill!

Boy did I ever turn this subject around, and I wasen't remotly planning on it.