Re: Dan Snyder: Please Don't Bring Back Joe Gibbs
 

[quote=12thMan;614595]I think you guys are being very presumptous that "no one" will come here. I wouldn't be so quick to think that. Snyder has brought a lot of "no ones" here.[/quote]

Like who? A college coach that had no business in the NFL? A QB coach that was put in over his head? The only two reliable moves Snyder has made was hiring Schotty and Gibbs, and he fired Marty and Gibbs retired. I haven't seen anything much from Vinny that tells me he needs to stay in Washington.

Re: Dan Snyder: Please Don't Bring Back Joe Gibbs
 

[quote=skinsguy;614596]Honestly it really shouldn't matter. We would hope whoever Gibbs would choose as GM and coach would have the full influence with what happens on the football field and the locker room.[/quote]


So wait a minute, it seems to me the crux of this argument is that Gibbs will somehow lure a coach and GM here that Snyder can't? Yet Snyder is still owner, has final say, and signs the paychecks? Huh?

This makes absolutely no sense to me. None.

Re: PFT Rumor - Joe Gibbs is Coming Back
 

[quote=redsk1;614597]I keep hearing Doug Williams name in posts. He's been a personel exec at TB since 2004. What exactly are his qualifications? TB hasn't been very good for awhile now. I don't recall their drafts being that great. What's so special about Doug Williams? Is it just the name?

He's drafted Gaines Adams, Talib (good pick), Josh Freeman-the jury is still out in the last few years.

We've all talked about not bringing in someone just b/c he's got a name. Seems like they are younger and more talented guys out there. Thoughts.[/quote]

I agree with you. I, unfortunately don't know enough about up and coming GMs in the NFL to know who else would be the better choice. I definitely would hope for a younger Bobby Beathard type though.

Re: PFT Rumor - Joe Gibbs is Coming Back
 

[quote=skinsguy;614603]I agree with you. I, unfortunately don't know enough about up and coming GMs in the NFL to know who else would be the better choice. I definitely would hope for a younger Bobby Beathard type though.[/quote]

Eric DeCosta or Brian Gaines are your young Beathards.

Re: Dan Snyder: Please Don't Bring Back Joe Gibbs
 

[quote=skinsguy;614600]Like who? A college coach that had no business in the NFL? A QB coach that was put in over his head? The only two reliable moves Snyder has made was hiring Schotty and Gibbs, and he fired Marty and Gibbs retired. I haven't seen anything much from Vinny that tells me he needs to stay in Washington.[/quote]

No don't get it twisted, Vinny needs to go. But out of the menu of choices that were presented me and the reasons why, Vinny hasn't been that much worse than Gibbs. I'm willing to be wrong about this if you can sift through who drafted whom.

And like I said, Gibbs has those intangibles that are difficult to find in today's NFL. But if it was all about intangibles and character, we wouldn't be having this conversation would we?

Re: Dan Snyder: Please Don't Bring Back Joe Gibbs
 

[quote=12thMan;614601]So wait a minute, it seems to me the crux of this argument is that Gibbs will somehow lure a coach and GM here that Snyder can't? Yet Snyder is still owner, has final say, and signs the paychecks? Huh?

This makes absolutely no sense to me. None.[/quote]

It makes perfect sense if you think about it. It's a PR move. Gibbs would be the guy that those candidates would communicate with, not Dan Snyder and especially not someone like Vinny Cerrato. All Dan would need to do is sign off and write the checks.

It's just like other businesses. For instance, my director is over the entire agency, but it was my immediate supervisor who hired me, not that director. All he does is sign his name on my paycheck. He wasn't in the interview process, he just basically decided if my boss had enough budget to hire someone. That makes perfect sense.

Re: PFT Rumor - Joe Gibbs is Coming Back
 

Well the X factor I guess is Cerrato. Guys like Fassel and Gregg Williams (and who knows who else) couldn't work with Snyder if Cerrato was the third person in the triumvirate. Snyder made the decision to stick with Vinny and it seems to have backfired. Not that Williams or Fassel necessarily would have been the right choice. Anyhow, I suspect no one (except maybe LaVar) would have an issue working with Snyder if Gibbs was the other guy in the equation.

Again, I don't think Gibbs will come back when all is said and done but I think he could be an asset. He does have that ability to influence up close and personal, but he also is a skilled CEO who knows how to step up and properly delegate and reward.

Re: Dan Snyder: Please Don't Bring Back Joe Gibbs
 

[quote=12thMan;614605]No don't get it twisted, Vinny needs to go. But out of the menu of choices that were presented me and the reasons why, Vinny hasn't been that much worse than Gibbs. I'm willing to be wrong about this if you can sift through who drafted whom.

And like I said, Gibbs has those intangibles that are difficult to find in today's NFL. But if it was all about intangibles and character, we wouldn't be having this conversation would we?[/quote]

Why are you going back to draft picks? This position has nothing to do with player personnel. This is about someone who could build an organization up from the front office (which is where it NEEDS improvement) and those guys that are hired are the ones who build the team. Gibbs never owned a racing team in his life. He built the team and the team won championships. Why would you think he could not do this with football, a sport that he has been successful with as a coach?

Re: PFT Rumor - Joe Gibbs is Coming Back
 

[quote=SmootSmack;614607]Well the X factor I guess is Cerrato. Guys like Fassel and Gregg Williams (and who knows who else) couldn't work with Snyder if Cerrato was the third person in the triumvirate. Snyder made the decision to stick with Vinny and it seems to have backfired. Not that Williams or Fassel necessarily would have been the right choice. Anyhow, I suspect no one (except maybe LaVar) would have an issue working with Snyder if Gibbs was the other guy in the equation.

Again, I don't think Gibbs will come back when all is said and done but I think he could be an asset. He does have that ability to influence up close and personal, but he also is a skilled CEO who knows how to step up and properly delegate and reward.[/quote]

The thing I'm against the most about all of this is the fanfare that comes along with the move. It's just impossible to know that Joe Gibbs is somewhere in the building and not think Super Bowl. All the pieces have to be perfectly aligned and snyched for that to be a healthy environment. And the last thing this organization needs is for there to be a disconnect between top brass and the guys playing between the white lines on Sunday.

Re: PFT Rumor - Joe Gibbs is Coming Back
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;614604]Eric DeCosta or Brian Gaines are your young Beathards.[/quote]

So there are two names we can work with. Who else?

Re: PFT Rumor - Joe Gibbs is Coming Back
 

[quote=12thMan;614611]The thing I'm against the most about all of this is the fanfare that comes along with the move. It's just impossible to know that Joe Gibbs is somewhere in the building and not think Super Bowl. All the pieces have to be perfectly aligned and snyched for that to be a healthy environment. And the last thing this organization needs is for there to be a disconnect between top brass and the guys playing between the white lines on Sunday.[/quote]

I have a feeling that disconnect has already been disconnected long before this conversation ever came up.

Re: PFT Rumor - Joe Gibbs is Coming Back
 

AND THAT is what makes the deal good.
I personally do not believe Joe3 will be involved in any kind of chicanery cooked up by DanFinger to bamboozle fans. He is a better man than that. His history opens many doors that are closed to others. He KNOWS what is takes to win. He has proven through his NASCAR dealings and success that he can build and run a cooperate empire.
He has DS's trust and his ear. I cannot imagine WHO could be a better fit for the mission at hand, and to excoriate the cancerous Vinnie?

Re: PFT Rumor - Joe Gibbs is Coming Back
 

[quote=SmootSmack;614607]Well the X factor I guess is Cerrato. Guys like Fassel and Gregg Williams (and who knows who else) couldn't work with Snyder if Cerrato was the third person in the triumvirate. Snyder made the decision to stick with Vinny and it seems to have backfired. Not that Williams or Fassel necessarily would have been the right choice. Anyhow, I suspect no one (except maybe LaVar) would have an issue working with Snyder if Gibbs was the other guy in the equation.

Again, I don't think Gibbs will come back when all is said and done but I think he could be an asset. He does have that ability to influence up close and personal, but he also is a skilled CEO who knows how to step up and properly delegate and reward.[/quote]Seems like the problem was that all the potential options (after Schwartz pulled his name) were very flawed.

Snyder had good options, but he took a very long time in the process, losing some of the better names while waiting for different names.

Sadly, the same indecisiveness may have cost us a chance to salvage the season. The Detroit loss was bad, but we followed it up with a disappointing 1-2, which could have been 3-0 if we had taken a different organizational approach and gave Zorn the vote of confidence when it was appropriate.

Would it have mattered if we were 4-2, but go out this week and lose to the Eagles because they are a better team? I don't think so. This is not a good enough team to make the playoffs. But management really, really made this a bigger mess by waiting. Again.

Re: Dan Snyder: Please Don't Bring Back Joe Gibbs
 

[quote=skinsguy;614610]Why are you going back to draft picks? This position has nothing to do with player personnel. This is about someone who could build an organization up from the front office (which is where it NEEDS improvement) and those guys that are hired are the ones who build the team. Gibbs never owned a racing team in his life. [I]He built the team and the team won championships.[/I] Why would you think he could not do this with football, a sport that he has been successful with as a coach?[/quote]

If we're comparing apples to apples, how else can I compare Vinny and Gibbs? I'm looking at the respective roster moves they are/were responsible for. And to completely frank here, I'm not sure who was responsible for drafting whom during Gibbs' second stint. I know Gibbs drafted Taylor, but Vinny may have liked him too.

Joe Gibbs is a great person and possesses certain qualities that are rare and valued in a leader. And yes he built a great racing organization, but his success here in Washington was because he had capable and intelligent men around him from top to bottom.

Re: Dan Snyder: Please Don't Bring Back Joe Gibbs
 

[quote=12thMan;614619]If we're comparing apples to apples, how else can I compare Vinny and Gibbs? I'm looking at the respective roster moves they are/were responsible for. And to completely frank here, I'm not sure who was responsible for drafting whom during Gibbs' second stint. I know Gibbs drafted Taylor, but Vinny may have liked him too.

Joe Gibbs is a great person and possesses certain qualities that are rare and valued in a leader. And yes he built a great racing organization, but [B]his success here in Washington was because he had capable nd intelligent men around him from top to bottom.[/B][/quote]

You seem to be discounting rather heavily the achievments of Joe like the the three Lombardies......
Rather average? Sort of like you or I could have done it in similar situations?