Re: Chris Cooley for a 1st and a 3rd -- would you do it?
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;639831]This is a buy low sell high thread. Should we consider trading Cooley, certainly if the offer is right, but a 2nd round pick for a consistent Pro Bowl, and good locker room presence(life coach in fact), is way too low. I would say a low first, or high 2nd, with a conditional 2nd/3rd rd pick the following year. Having said that, it really is kinda foolish to trade because of 4-6 good games by FD. He seems to be a baller, but one season isn't enough to get rid of a high caliber player.[/quote] Shockey and Gonzalez went for a second round picks and both are great TEs. Why wouldn't we trade Cooley for a second round pick? I highly doubt anyone would give up a first rounder for a TE. I think a second round pick would be fair.

Re: Chris Cooley for a 1st and a 3rd -- would you do it?
 

Why would the Redskins want to trade Cooley? He's a high character guy, one of the team leaders and a great player. I personally would trade Landry who is a great athlete, a free lance type player and is selfish. The question is would you trade a smart, team leader and complete player or a great athlete who is selfish and makes lots of bone headed decisions? You would probably get the same type pick for either one.

Re: Chris Cooley for a 1st and a 3rd -- would you do it?
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;640166]Why would the Redskins want to trade Cooley? He's a high character guy, one of the team leaders and a great player. I personally would trade Landry who is a great athlete, a free lance type player and is selfish. The question is would you trade a smart, team leader and complete player or a great athlete who is selfish and makes lots of bone headed decisions? You would probably get the same type pick for either one.[/quote]

Trade Landry? Besides having next to no trade value, we don't have another safety on the team who has been playing just as good, if not better, than Landry has been. Thats why Landry hasn't been benched for some of his mistakes, while Carolos Rogers has. Landry, with all his flaws, is the best safety we have. If we traded Landry for a draft pick, we'd likely have to use that same pick to draft his replacement. Given the compensation we'd likely get for him (a 4th rounder at best), we'd be likely end up with a player not as talented as Landry. Additionally, Landry is signed to a rookie contract that will expire in a couple years. We have no long-term commitment to him.

Cooley, on the other hand, has significant trade value. The consensus amongst us here is that he would garner anywhere between a 2nd and 5th rounder to a 1st and a 3rd. Cooley also plays at a position where we have two starting-caliber TEs and 1 solid backup on the roster. Typically, when smart teams have that kind of depth at a position like TE, and glaring weaknesses at other, more critical, spots on the roster, they trade one of the superflous players. Cooley also has a very large contract, one that will ultimately come back to bite the skins if they keep him around. By trading him in a potentially capless 2010, the skins rid themselves of that eventual issue. Fred Davis has proven that he is just as good, if not better, than Chris Cooley. He's younger. He's cheaper. And he seems to have developed a better chemistry with Campbell in 2 months than Cooley did in 4 years.

As to Cooley being a "team leader," I think you overvalue him a bit there. We, as fans, like Cooley because he makes plays and he's funny. We're amused by the short shorts, crazy hair, his blog entries, and general antics... much the same way we were amused by Portis' alter-egos a couple of years ago. He's a "fan favorite." He's popular in the lockerroom. But don't confuse "popular" and "well-liked" with "Leader." If Cooley were really a "leader," he probably would have been voted a team captain for the offense at the beginning of the season. Instead, Campbell and Samuels were the captains for the offense. If the offense has a leader now, its Jason Campbell. As fans, we don't "identify" with him as much, because he seems to be a fairly private person. but if you pay attention when other players talk, Campbell's THE leader. Sellers is a leader. Fletcher is a leader. Cartwright is a leader... but not Cooley. Sorry.

Re: Chris Cooley for a 1st and a 3rd -- would you do it?
 

your right, we love Cooley but he is no leader.

Re: Chris Cooley for a 1st and a 3rd -- would you do it?
 

[quote=Landry44;640165]Shockey and Gonzalez went for a second round picks and both are great TEs. Why wouldn't we trade Cooley for a second round pick? I highly doubt anyone would give up a first rounder for a TE. I think a second round pick would be fair.[/quote]

Shockey was not getting along in NY, and wanted out. Gonzalez is good, but also OLD. Again, if Cooley wanted out, or was causing problems, then yes a 2nd is fair, but he is young, an established probowler who has significant ties to the community and team, brings in a ton of merchandising revenue(yes that should affect the value we get for him, because he will bring that to the new team as well) and is a very good locker room presence. Shockey and Gonzalez didn't meet that criteria, and Gonzalez was franchised last year I believe - I could be wrong, but not this year. It is crazy to think a stand alone 2nd round pick is a fair market value for Cooley.

Re: Chris Cooley for a 1st and a 3rd -- would you do it?
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;640195]

As to Cooley being a "team leader," I think you overvalue him a bit there. We, as fans, like Cooley because he makes plays and he's funny. We're amused by the short shorts, crazy hair, his blog entries, and general antics... much the same way we were amused by Portis' alter-egos a couple of years ago. He's a "fan favorite." He's popular in the lockerroom. But don't confuse "popular" and "well-liked" with "Leader." If Cooley were really a "leader," he probably would have been voted a team captain for the offense at the beginning of the season. Instead, Campbell and Samuels were the captains for the offense. If the offense has a leader now, its Jason Campbell. As fans, we don't "identify" with him as much, because he seems to be a fairly private person. but if you pay attention when other players talk, Campbell's THE leader. Sellers is a leader. Fletcher is a leader. Cartwright is a leader... but not Cooley. Sorry.[/quote]

You're right. Well said.

Re: Chris Cooley for a 1st and a 3rd -- would you do it?
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;640214]Shockey was not getting along in NY, and wanted out. Gonzalez is good, but also OLD. Again, if Cooley wanted out, or was causing problems, then yes a 2nd is fair, but he is young, an established probowler who has significant ties to the community and team, brings in a ton of merchandising revenue(yes that should affect the value we get for him, because he will bring that to the new team as well) and is a very good locker room presence. Shockey and Gonzalez didn't meet that criteria, and Gonzalez was franchised last year I believe - I could be wrong, but not this year. It is crazy to think a stand alone 2nd round pick is a fair market value for Cooley.[/quote]

It all depends on what team we trade him to. 1st and a 3rd or 2nd and a whatever are really too vague of terms. For example, I think Cooley is easily worth a the 31st overall pick and the 31st pick in the 3rd round. But the 5th pick in the first round and 5th in the 3rd? Hardly.

But to keep things relatively simple, lets split it up into 3 categories:

1. Receiving Team has a top 10 Pick: We get a 2, a 4 and a 6.
2. Receiving Team has a Round 1 Pick from 11 to 25: We get a 2 and a 3.
3. Receiving Team has a Round 1 Pick from 26-32: We get a 1 and a 3.

Re: Chris Cooley for a 1st and a 3rd -- would you do it?
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;640214]Shockey was not getting along in NY, and wanted out. Gonzalez is good, but also OLD. Again, if Cooley wanted out, or was causing problems, then yes a 2nd is fair, but he is young, an established probowler who has significant ties to the community and team, brings in a ton of merchandising revenue(yes that should affect the value we get for him, because he will bring that to the new team as well) and is a very good locker room presence. Shockey and Gonzalez didn't meet that criteria, and Gonzalez was franchised last year I believe - I could be wrong, but not this year. It is crazy to think a stand alone 2nd round pick is a fair market value for Cooley.[/quote]

Well said. I think every player in his prime that got traded, did not want to be with their current team (i.e. Shockey, Winslow Jr., Braylon Edwards, Gonzalez...well he wasn't in his prime but still a damn good TE). Hell, even trading Richard Seymour backfired on Darth Hoody, because his defense sucks now.

You don't build a good franchise by JUST acquiring a ton of draft picks. You have to be smart about using your picks and the players that you have. Right now the Redskins could be in a good positions for two/three years down the road to trade Cooley if he wants out or if his production is not equal the $$ they are paying him. Right now the Redskins need to figure out a good way to use their two talented tight ends.

Re: Chris Cooley for a 1st and a 3rd -- would you do it?
 

Unless Davis can truly show he is our tight end of the future and can be reliable we need to keep Cooley.

Re: Chris Cooley for a 1st and a 3rd -- would you do it?
 

[quote=TheSmurfs22;640362]Unless [B]Davis can truly show he is our tight end of the future[/B] and can be reliable we need to keep Cooley.[/quote]

i think he is... and so is cooley he is only 27!!

Re: Chris Cooley for a 1st and a 3rd -- would you do it?
 

[quote=Landry44;640165]Shockey and Gonzalez went for a second round picks and both are great TEs. Why wouldn't we trade Cooley for a second round pick? I highly doubt anyone would give up a first rounder for a TE. I think a second round pick would be fair.[/quote]

This is a good question, and would have led to a not-ridiculous discussion. Arguments could be made both for and against trading him for a second, and it's likely we could fetch that price. Reading this thread it's clear that Skins fans have a delusional view of Cooley's value. Gates, Daniels, and Whitten wouldn't fetch nearly this price, and Cooley is probably not as good as any of those players.

To put some perspective on it, the Bills didn't even get a first and third for Jason Peters, a stud LT in his prime. As good as Cooley is, he's just a probowl TE. He's not the greatest TE of all time and he's not a stud LT. The only possible thing dumber than someone offering us this deal would be us not taking it.

Re: Chris Cooley for a 1st and a 3rd -- would you do it?
 

[quote=TheSmurfs22;640362]Unless Davis can truly show he is our tight end of the future and can be reliable we need to keep Cooley.[/quote]

What does he need to do exactly? He is physically more talented. It seems pretty safe to say that he is more effective in the Red Zone too.

This is going to be a heated position argument but knowing the Redskins,contract size trumps all when it comes to playing time.

The good thing in this case is that it doesn't hurt the team to start Cooley over Davis.

Re: Chris Cooley for a 1st and a 3rd -- would you do it?
 

[quote=djnemo65;640369]This is a good question, and would have led to a not-ridiculous discussion. Arguments could be made both for and against trading him for a second, and it's likely we could fetch that price. [B] Reading this thread it's clear that Skins fans have a delusional view of Cooley's value.[/B] Gates, Daniels, and Whitten wouldn't fetch nearly this price, and Cooley is probably not as good as any of those players.

To put some perspective on it, the Bills didn't even get a first and third for Jason Peters, a stud LT in his prime. As good as Cooley is, he's [B]just a probowl TE[/B]. He's not the greatest TE of all time and he's not a stud LT. The only possible thing dumber than someone offering us this deal would be us not taking it.[/quote]

cooley's value goes beyond the feild he is right now the heart and sould of this organization, he is a fan favorite no doubt, but he is our main offensive weapon, he just isn't playing right now.

and you do realize only two guys make it to the pro bowl for te so to say he is [B]"just a pro bowler" [/B]is kind of ridiculious

Re: Chris Cooley for a 1st and a 3rd -- would you do it?
 

[quote=mlmdub130;640372]cooley's value goes beyond the feild he is right now the heart and sould of this organization, he is a fan favorite no doubt, but he is our main offensive weapon, he just isn't playing right now.

and you do realize only two guys make it to the pro bowl for te so to say he is [B]"just a pro bowler" [/B]is kind of ridiculious[/quote]


Portis says Rock is the heart and soul and the offense has gotten better since Cooley got injured.

I definitely agree that a lot of people are significantly overvaluing him. He is a great player but may not even be the best tight end on the team.

Re: Chris Cooley for a 1st and a 3rd -- would you do it?
 

no, we should definitely think about splitting davis out like IND does dallas clark and still keep cooley at TE and as well run twin tights. davis is a playmaker and we need playmakers and coooooooley is just as good. we need to start keeping the playmakers on the field like moss thomas coooooley (when healthy) and davis at all times