Re: Official Redskins Off-Season News & Rumors-Part Trois
 

[quote=Mattyk;1010653]I can't even bring myself to read another article on this bogus name issue.

When does training camp open?[/quote]

Change the name of this site to 'The Groupthink'. Or is that offensive? Just passing along information from a new angle. Or did everyone else know about this "bogus" story?

Re: Official Redskins Off-Season News & Rumors-Part Trois
 

[quote=RGIII;1010658]Change the name of this site to 'The Groupthink'. Or is that offensive? Just passing along information from a new angle. Or did everyone else know about this "bogus" story?[/quote]

What is the "new angle" exactly?

Looks like the same old stale argument to me.

Re: Official Redskins Off-Season News & Rumors-Part Trois
 

[quote=RGIII;1010656]So where are your "facts" and evidence? Oh yeah, don't waste your time. Ignorance is easier.[/quote]

I don't have facts and evidence, I just have my opinion. My opinion is this: If you are not an American Indian, I don't care what your opinion is on the name. If the majority of American Indians were offended by the name and wanted it changed, I wouldn't have a problem with it.

I've read up on the issue, and the two biggest things for me are this: A Smithsonian historian who has studied the origins of the name is of the belief that American Indians created the name to distinguish themselves from the white man. I am at work so I'm not going to bother trying to find the article, but it exists, and I know there are others that have read it too, so if you don't believe me feel free to look for it.

And the second thing is this: Multiple polls have suggested that the majority of American Indians do not care about the name. Call it what you want but until those factors are changed, and evidence has come out that the name is intended to offend American Indians, and most American Indians are offended by the name, I will continue to support the team that I love using the name. End of discussion for me. I don't care what some inane columnist thinks about the name. Call it ignorance if you want, I'm just tired of this topic.

This name change shit gets so old. It's not going to happen

Re: Official Redskins Off-Season News & Rumors-Part Trois
 

[quote=RGIII;1010642]Explain this Redskins-name supporters...
[url=http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/06/01/the-racist-redskins.html]The Racist Redskins - The Daily Beast[/url][/quote]

There's no doubt that Marshall was a racist in regards to the black race. No one denies he was a racist, just that the name, as it has been recognized by both Native Americans in a recent poll, and the general public as well, is not identified as an offensive term.

Ultimately all these arguments are not new. When a law is passed, or patent cancelled, that will be news - until then it's just media harrassment and spin.

Re: Official Redskins Off-Season News & Rumors-Part Trois
 

I still think all of these articles are written by secret Cowboy fans. BTW I think the name "Cowboy" is offensive. They should be called "Ranch-hands". There, someone needs to write an article on the offensive "Cowboy" name.

Re: Official Redskins Off-Season News & Rumors-Part Trois
 

[quote=RGIII;1010642]Explain this Redskins-name supporters...
[URL="http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/06/01/the-racist-redskins.html"]The Racist Redskins - The Daily Beast[/URL][/quote]

Sure, he's completely wrong on the history of the Redskins for one thing, and secondly, he's made a lot of assumption out to be fact when he has no proof backing up those claims.

I thought every Redskins fan knew the history of their favorite team?

Re: Official Redskins Off-Season News & Rumors-Part Trois
 

The article, for whatever reason, tries to redirect me after 5 seconds so I cant read it. However, it seems that the argument in based around George Preston Marshall, so Im going with that angle.

Doesnt the Rooney rule kind of mitigate the whole owner being racist angle?

The fact that Marshall was the last to integrate his team doesnt change that most of the owners, if not all, were racist at that time. And a fair amount today still are, as evidenced by the Rooney rule. When you have to make a rule that requires non-whites to be interviewed, doesnt that mean that racism still exists today in the NFL. If it exists today, why go all the way back to Marshall to find racism in the NFL.

More importantly, by only singling out Marshall, doesnt that mean that the people using that as an argument are more than willing to justify racism to make a point against the Washington Redskins? Which, in and of itself, is racist.

But hey, dont let racism stand in your way of making an argument against a racist.

Re: Official Redskins Off-Season News & Rumors-Part Trois
 

I hate talking about the Redskins name change debate, but since you all brought it up, here are the most important 'new' points/views/actions on it:

1) Mike Freeman of CBSSports wrote a 'convincing' article that has been passed around on other radio shows (such as Holden and Danny), Redskins Twitter accounts and message boards.

[url=http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/blog/mike-freeman/22321706/redskins-not-offensive-to-you-how-about-the-washington-n-words]Redskins not offensive to you? How about the Washington N-Words? - CBSSports.com[/url]

2) A member of congress told the 'EK Show' that the Redskins name isn't likely to stand; and 10 members (may be more now) said that they've asked the Redskins to change their name.

[url=http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/05/30/u-s-rep-says-redskins-name-is-not-likely-to-stand/]U.S. Rep says Redskins name “is not likely to stand” | ProFootballTalk[/url]

[url=http://t.co/kVSxtWi8cj]Members of Congress urge Washington Redskins to change name - ESPN[/url]

3) Mike Wise shows up to RGIII's press conference wearing a native american T-shirt and is standing directly behind Robert so that he can be seen on camera. When fans ridiculed him on Twitter for doing such a thing, Wise said something along the lines of 'I wasn't doing that intentionally, just pure coincidence. If I wanted to show off a native american T-shirt I have much better ones at home.'

[url=http://washington.cbslocal.com/2013/05/30/mike-wise-steals-the-rgiii-show-during-nationally-televised-press-conference/]Mike Wise Steals ‘The RGIII Show’ During Nationally Televised Press Conference « CBS DC[/url]

[IMG]http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/2700903/rgiii.png[/IMG]

Re: Official Redskins Off-Season News & Rumors-Part Trois
 

Well I guess we should throw this in as well

[url=http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/dc-sports-bog/wp/2013/05/29/retired-patawomeck-chief-says-hed-be-offended-if-redskins-change-name/]Retired Patawomeck chief says he’d be offended if Redskins change name[/url]

Re: Official Redskins Off-Season News & Rumors-Part Trois
 

[quote=SmootSmack;1010675]Well I guess we should throw this in as well

[url=http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/dc-sports-bog/wp/2013/05/29/retired-patawomeck-chief-says-hed-be-offended-if-redskins-change-name/]Retired Patawomeck chief says he’d be offended if Redskins change name[/url][/quote]

Thanks SS.


The other day on NFL Sirius radio, Ross and Bob Poppa were debating this.

They had Chief Robert two feathers Green on the show, it was one of te first times I have actually heard from an Indian on the subject. After his call there were multiple callers who called in claiming to be native Americans and not one calle the term offensive nor did they care I the name was changed or not. There were a couple who dislike the Redskins, but that was because they were Cowboys fans not because of the name Redskins.

Re: Official Redskins Off-Season News & Rumors-Part Trois
 

Maybe we could do a.....provisional ban until the start of training camp?

Re: Official Redskins Off-Season News & Rumors-Part Trois
 

Walter Wetzel was President of National Congress of American Indians from 1960-1964 as well as being Chairman for the Blackfoot Indians. He went to the Redskins office with pictures of Indians asking that the Redskins use these images to help design a new helmet logo.

Here is an article from the Washington Post back in 2002 by Marc Fisher, where he interviewed Walter Wetzel as part of his article. Wapo has made it so the article is no longer viewable (I guess Mike Wise has more clout there than we thought), so you have to view it through second hand sources, such as this one. But I found multiple sources with this very same article. The relevant info is in the last couple of paragraphs.

[url=http://www.indianz.com/boardx/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=38465]Indianz.Com - American Indians Among Admirers Of Redskins Name[/url]

Re: Official Redskins Off-Season News & Rumors-Part Trois
 

[quote=Hog1;1010624]It is my sincerest hope as I have feared the appearance of the.....Jay Cutler gene............[/quote]

???

You see Cutler in RG, or did I misunderstand?

Re: Official Redskins Off-Season News & Rumors-Part Troi
 

[quote=artmonkforhallofamein07;1010625]Goat, the pieces about RG II in the story was really not the point of posting article. The rest of it was the real meat and potatoes, but I don't think his dad laid any information in the coaching staff that they didn't already know.

As far as te kid spending time at redskins park and with his teammates all you have to do is read everything written about what he has been doing in the offseason and where he spends all of his time to see that is exactly what he is doing.

I know you read Goat, it's all out there.[/quote]

Admittedly I haven't read much about how RG is spending the off-season, though the tidbits I see are more about celeb events etc. And you have to give him full benefit of the doubt at this point because he's rehabbing so it's not like he can practice with his WRs/TEs all off-season. But ultimately, that's what we wanna see, right? Especially if he's to become an elite passer (first) and running threat (second), that chemistry needs to be there.

That's all.

Re: Official Redskins Off-Season News & Rumors-Part Trois
 

[quote=scowan;1010664]I still think all of these articles are written by secret Cowboy fans. BTW I think the name "Cowboy" is offensive. They should be called "Ranch-hands". There, someone needs to write an article on the offensive "Cowboy" name.[/quote]

LOL well played sir, well played.

Re: Official Redskins Off-Season News & Rumors-Part Trois
 

[quote=Skinzman;1010689]Walter Wetzel was President of National Congress of American Indians from 1960-1964 as well as being Chairman for the Blackfoot Indians. He went to the Redskins office with pictures of Indians asking that the Redskins use these images to help design a new helmet logo.

Here is an article from the Washington Post back in 2002 by Marc Fisher, where he interviewed Walter Wetzel as part of his article. Wapo has made it so the article is no longer viewable (I guess Mike Wise has more clout there than we thought), so you have to view it through second hand sources, such as this one. But I found multiple sources with this very same article. The relevant info is in the last couple of paragraphs.

[url=http://www.indianz.com/boardx/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=38465]Indianz.Com - American Indians Among Admirers Of Redskins Name[/url][/quote]

Thanks for finding that.

Re: Official Redskins Off-Season News & Rumors-Part Troi
 

[quote=The Goat;1010708]Admittedly I haven't read much about how RG is spending the off-season, though the tidbits I see are more about celeb events etc. And you have to give him full benefit of the doubt at this point because he's rehabbing so it's not like he can practice with his WRs/TEs all off-season. But ultimately, that's what we wanna see, right? Especially if he's to become an elite passer (first) and running threat (second), that chemistry needs to be there.

That's all.[/quote]

His celeb events are fine with me honestly. He isnt jet setting all across the country all the time, and not putting in his work. If he wants to spend his "free" time that way more power to him.

I would love for him to be spending time throwing to all of his guys and so on and so forth. I am sure if he was healthy he would be doing some of that stuff. Since that isn't the situation then it is hard to get on him at all when he is doing what he should be.

Re: Official Redskins Off-Season News & Rumors-Part Trois
 

[url=http://www.wusa9.com/sports/article/262016/444/Redskins-Fullback-Eric-Kettani-Becomes-Navy-Lieutenant]Redskins Fullback Eric Kettani Becomes Navy Lieutenant | wusa9.com[/url]

Re: Official Redskins Off-Season News & Rumors-Part Trois
 

[quote=SmootSmack;1010722][url=http://www.wusa9.com/sports/article/262016/444/Redskins-Fullback-Eric-Kettani-Becomes-Navy-Lieutenant]Redskins Fullback Eric Kettani Becomes Navy Lieutenant | wusa9.com[/url][/quote]
Dude should've had his ceremony here at NOB.

Re: Official Redskins Off-Season News & Rumors-Part Trois
 

[quote=SmootSmack;1010722][url=http://www.wusa9.com/sports/article/262016/444/Redskins-Fullback-Eric-Kettani-Becomes-Navy-Lieutenant]Redskins Fullback Eric Kettani Becomes Navy Lieutenant | wusa9.com[/url][/quote]


Awesome of the Redskins to oblige.

Thanks for sharing that with us.

Re: Official Redskins Off-Season News & Rumors-Part Trois
 

[quote=SmootSmack;1010722][URL="http://www.wusa9.com/sports/article/262016/444/Redskins-Fullback-Eric-Kettani-Becomes-Navy-Lieutenant"]Redskins Fullback Eric Kettani Becomes Navy Lieutenant | wusa9.com[/URL][/quote]

Congratulations to him and his family and my I say Thank You for your service.

Re: Official Redskins Off-Season News & Rumors-Part Trois
 

I wonder if Lt. Kettani makes it on the active roster this year.

Would he be the first Lt. to ever make an NFL roster?

Re: Official Redskins Off-Season News & Rumors-Part Trois
 

[quote=CultBrennan59;1010746]I wonder if Lt. Kettani makes it on the active roster this year.

Would he be the first Lt. to ever make an NFL roster?[/quote]


[url=http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/lists/NFL-football-military-veterans-servicemen-052411#tab=photo-title=Proud+tradition&photo=29820276]NFL's military men[/url]

Re: Official Redskins Off-Season News & Rumors-Part Trois
 

the answer is no. usually they turn pro athlete military into touring recruiters and reservists or whatever. a couple years ago detroit i think the navy pulled an officer from detroit since he was only going to make the practice squad.

Re: Official Redskins Off-Season News & Rumors-Part Trois
 

opps

Re: Official Redskins Off-Season News & Rumors-Part Trois
 

[quote=RGIII;1010642]Explain this Redskins-name supporters...
[url=http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/06/01/the-racist-redskins.html]The Racist Redskins - The Daily Beast[/url][/quote]The author of your article needs to check the actual facts.

Short version: You're wrong. The name Redskins isn't racist.

Medium version: The name Redskins wasn't racist when it was coined. It wasn't racist when the team adopted it for a variety of reasons. The people who actually use it now.. HTTR! People who think it's derogatory just can't seem to realize it was adopted and used by the team to root for and identify with, not against. "Redskins" isn't racist now, except for the people making themselves look like racists in protesting the name.

Long version: Well, here's a starter about the name's origins. Refutes some of the falsehoods that anti-Redskins protestors have made.

[URL="http://anthropology.si.edu/goddard/redskin.pdf"]http://anthropology.si.edu/goddard/redskin.pdf[/URL]

Re: Official Redskins Off-Season News & Rumors-Part Trois
 

[quote=HailGreen28;1010846]The author of your article needs to check the actual facts.

Short version: You're wrong. The name Redskins isn't racist.

Medium version: The name Redskins wasn't racist when it was coined. It wasn't racist when the team adopted it for a variety of reasons. The people who actually use it now.. HTTR! People who think it's derogatory just can't seem to realize it was adopted and used by the team to root for and identify with, not against. "Redskins" isn't racist now, except for the people making themselves look like racists in protesting the name.

Long version: Well, here's a starter about the name's origins. Refutes some of the falsehoods that anti-Redskins protestors have made.

[URL="http://anthropology.si.edu/goddard/redskin.pdf"]http://anthropology.si.edu/goddard/redskin.pdf[/URL][/quote]

I think the team also took on the name to pay homage to the red sox when they started sharing Fenway park in 1933. It was a nice way to use the Red from red sox and still maintain the native american theme from when they were the Boston Braves.

Re: Official Redskins Off-Season News & Rumors-Part Trois
 

[quote=HailGreen28;1010846]The author of your article needs to check the actual facts.

Short version: You're wrong. The name Redskins isn't racist.

Medium version: The name Redskins wasn't racist when it was coined. It wasn't racist when the team adopted it for a variety of reasons. The people who actually use it now.. HTTR! People who think it's derogatory just can't seem to realize it was adopted and used by the team to root for and identify with, not against. "Redskins" isn't racist now, except for the people making themselves look like racists in protesting the name.

Long version: Well, here's a starter about the name's origins. Refutes some of the falsehoods that anti-Redskins protestors have made.

[URL]http://anthropology.si.edu/goddard/redskin.pdf[/URL][/quote]


This Person doesn't agree with you.Hit the link to read the whole article.


[URL="http://www.indianz.com/News/2013/008558.asp"]Indianz.Com > Doug George-Kanentiio: A Mohawk's perspective on 'Redskins'[/URL]

Altogether, the Mohawk Nation lost over 9,000,000 acres of land, an area which includes Cooperstown and all of the Adirondacks. This was done without our consent. In order to rationalize the theft of the land falsehoods were created which de-humanized our people. We were no longer friends but demons. We were labeled as savages and cannibals, warlike primitives without intellect. Among the most tragic of profanes were those books used in schools, which grossly distorted our history and passed on terrible lies about us.

The use of “redskins” was among the worse of these labels. That word originally referred to the Beothuks of Newfoundland, a peaceful people who colored their skin with red ochre as adornment and to keep the mosquitoes at bay. Their passivity was mistaken for weakness and after the waves of European diseases killed most of them those who survived were hunted and murdered for sport. By 1830 they were extinct. One of the reprehensible tactics was to remove the skins of the Beothuks and use them as covers for books and as leggings for the hunters.

This act of skinning Native people, both men and women, continued on along the frontier. It was an act of terror meant to instill fear and drive the Natives from coveted lands. It was justified by these stereotypes that were highly effective in undermining the dignity, pride and self-assurance of our people. We are, among all peoples in this hemisphere, the most misunderstood, the most libeled and the most despised because of the lies in the media, in popular literature and, sadly, in the schools.

[I]Doug George-Kanentiio, Akwesasne Mohawk, is a co-founder of the Native American Journalists Association, a former member of the Board of Trustees for the National Museum of the American Indian and the author of many books and articles about Native history and current issues. His latest book is "Iroquois on Fire". He may be reached via e-mail: Kanentiioaol.com. Kanentiio resides on Oneida Iroquois Territory in central New York State.[/I]

Re: Official Redskins Off-Season News & Rumors-Part Trois
 

Why would a Mohawk Indian be commenting on the Beothuks? The Mohawk Indians regularly invaded the Beothuks to capture them as slaves. As well as the Mi'kmaq Indians, who allied with the French and were paid by the French to drive the Beothuks inland as the French wanted coastal Canada to themselves. The Mohawk Indians play a role, just like Europeans, as to why the Beothuks are extinct.

PS... To a degree he does agree with Goddard. As he clearly states, from what you copied and pasted, that the term Redskins originates from the coloring of the skin with red ochre.

Re: Official Redskins Off-Season News & Rumors-Part Trois
 

This is all good information. It's worthy of being put in its own thread. Was the previous one(s) closed?

Re: Official Redskins Off-Season News & Rumors-Part Trois
 

[quote=RGIII;1010867]This is all good information. It's worthy of being put in its own thread. Was the previous one(s) closed?[/quote]

It's all old information, as is this subject. I think the mods had stated something to the effect that if something new (ie court ruling/team change in stance) were to happen, then a new thread would be opened. For now, it's just an offseason harangue that spawns Yo momma jokes.

Re: Official Redskins Off-Season News & Rumors-Part Trois
 

a side question, although sick of the name argument, has there been any native american movement to not call a haircut a mohawk? Just curious, the thought popped into my mind from the Mohawk discussion above.

[QUOTE=CRedskinsRule;1010885]It's all old information, as is this subject. I think the mods had stated something to the effect that if something new (ie court ruling/team change in stance) were to happen, then a new thread would be opened. For now, it's just an offseason harangue that spawns Yo momma jokes.[/QUOTE]

To be fair it was McNabb who sparked the "Yo Mama" jokes.

Re: Official Redskins Off-Season News & Rumors-Part Trois
 

Yo momma so stupid she called me yesterday begging for W-2s for the handjob, blowjob, and nutjob she gave last year.

Re: Official Redskins Off-Season News & Rumors-Part Trois
 

[quote=RGIII;1010891]Yo momma so stupid she called me yesterday begging for W-2s for the handjob, blowjob, and nutjob she gave last year.[/quote]

Uh-oh. Not this again.