Re: Current 2014 Free Agents
 

[quote=Irrefutable;1060931]1) It is inevitable that anyone who gets a big long term contract will be less determined... there are plenty of players with big contracts being cut due to lower production or injury

2) You did not see my follow up regarding trading Orakpo. [B]IF you can franchise him, and trade him I would[/B] I know he is worth more than a late round pick...I would take as high a pick as I can get.... as a last resort I would take a late pick instead of nothing

3) The list of Redskins mistakes over the last 10 years is to long to post here. A few examples:

Kevin Barnes as a 3rd round pick, anyone who saw him at MD knew that was a mistake.

McNabb trade

WRs Thomas, and Kelly draft choices.

Plenty of free-agent signings Fat Albert, J Morgan,T Jackson, Jamal Brown.

Recent draft choices, trading up for LeRebius ?, small RBs Thompson and Jameson, OLB Jenkins ?

Good picks P. Thomas, Jordan, and Cousins[/quote]

So when P. Manning signed his long term contracts he was less determined? Or T Brady? Or Ryan Clark taking the larger deal with the Steelers. Motivation is determined by individual players. Nothing Orakpo has ever done has shown a lack of heart that Haynesworth, Archuletta, or various other busts across the league has shown. I would even point to Cofield as an example of a player that signed a long term deal and excelled.
A properly written contract, even a 10-11million dollar APY one with the salary cap's upward trend can protect the team.

2) I saw your follow up posts but felt the were irrelevant, and very refutable too, in that Orakpo was a 1st round pick, he has played well for us overall, and is considered a top FA in this class. Any suggestion of trading him for a 6th or 7th low round pick is insanity on the verge of Vinnie Cerrato's tenure, or simply not understanding the value of our own players.
Would you encourage the 49'ers to trade Aldon Smith for a low round pick. What would you think of a 49ers fan who suggested that.

3) way to grab the low hanging fruit. obviously the skins have a bunch of poor moves, but none really relevant to the concept of keeping our own. I also didn't see anything from other teams moves.
Let me cherry pick some transactions, and tell me what you think on a scale of 1 - 10, 1 is terrible move, 10 is awesome move:
1) Redskins letting Ryan Clark walk?
2) Bears resigning Cutler at end of season?
3) Bills trading Jason Peters to the Eagles for a 1st and 4th round pick after 6 seasons?
4) Baltimore Franchise tagging Ngata in 2011?

Just curious.

Re: Current 2014 Free Agents
 

Orakpo will be 28 when his next contract starts, do you think he will be just as productive in his 30s ?

QBs are not getting the crap beaten out of them every play so it is easy to stay motivated.

The notion I am cherry picking Redskin mistakes is absurd, their record the last 10 years on and off the field speaks for itself.

................................................

The franchise tag price for LBs is now $11.5 million, tag and trade is the best move.

[QUOTE=Irrefutable;1060935]Orakpo will be 28 when his next contract starts, do you think he will be just as productive in his 30s ?

QBs are not getting the crap beaten out of them every play so it is easy to stay motivated.

The notion I am cherry picking Redskin mistakes is absurd, their record the last 10 years on and off the field speaks for itself.[/QUOTE]

I think olb's can be productive into their 30s, and I am confident a look at NFL rosters would bear that out. Also a well written contract can protect a team if the player doesn't work out.

I didn't mean cherry picking as much as going after low hanging fruit. Its easy to find skins bad moves, harder to find good moves. But you didn't say any non skins transactions that were comparable to Orakpos situation (I didn't say it had to be but that was the context of my question, sorry for my lack of clarity)

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Re: Current 2014 Free Agents
 

[quote=Irrefutable;1060935]...The franchise tag price for LBs is now $11.5 million, tag and trade is the best move.[/quote]

Maybe; it depends on what you can get for him. If someone would give us multiple 1st rounders, I agree. But no one would even think of giving that. And anything less than multiple high picks wouldn't be worth it. You might as well keep him and hope he lives up to his contract.

I can see your logic, though, in trying to get something out of him instead of letting him walk for nothing, or, if he stays here, taking up a huge part of our cap space. That being said, there's no way he signs elsewhere. He's a very valuable part of our defense, and our FO recognizes that.

Re: Current 2014 Free Agents
 

Orakpo:
G 64
GS 64
Sk 39.5
Int 1 yds29 1td lng 29
PD16
FF 6
FR 3 yds 0 0TD
Tackles 157
Asst 75

Clay Matthews
G 69
GS 66
Sks 50.0
Ints 4 yds109 2TD Lng 62
PD 23
FF 10
FR 3 yds 46 1TD
Tackles 189
Assists 58

Clay Matthews Contract last year 66Mil, bonus of 21Mil, and counts 10.9mil, this year.

Is Orakpo exactly Clay Matthews, no, but he is a LOT closer to Clay Matthews then he is to [URL="http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/B/ButlVi99.htm"]Victor Butler[/URL] (6th round selection of same draft class)

Bottomline, the Skins have a top FA player on our team, and we ought to make every effort to keep him. If he chooses to walk away, then that is his choice, but it shouldn't be because the Skins were penny wise, pound foolish.

Re: Current 2014 Free Agents
 

[quote=SirLK26;1060929]I can play the stats game too. :Smoker: He had 2 fewer sacks and 1 less INT last year than he did in 2012.

But beyond that, his run defense has declined substantially since 2011. PFF had him ranked as the 4th worst run stopper among the 40 qualifying ILBs last season. He would be a good addition, though, as long as the price is right. Draft Shayne Skov or Christian Jones in the 3rd or 4th to wait behind him and hopefully start in a few years.[/quote]

London Fletcher was 32 when we signed him.

Re: Current 2014 Free Agents
 

if we go defense in FA i want Spikes and Linval Joseph. Spikes brings some attitude to the D, something we have been lacking bad then also drafting a LB too. Depending on Raks situation I wouldnt mind looking at Michael Johnson either.

Yo SmootSmack are you on twitter? I swear you sound just like this guy I follow.

Re: Current 2014 Free Agents
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1060938]Orakpo:
G 64
GS 64
Sk 39.5
Int 1 yds29 1td lng 29
PD16
FF 6
FR 3 yds 0 0TD
Tackles 157
Asst 75

Clay Matthews
G 69
GS 66
Sks 50.0
Ints 4 yds109 2TD Lng 62
PD 23
FF 10
FR 3 yds 46 1TD
Tackles 189
Assists 58

Clay Matthews Contract last year 66Mil, bonus of 21Mil, and counts 10.9mil, this year.

Is Orakpo exactly Clay Matthews, no, but he is a LOT closer to Clay Matthews then he is to [URL="http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/B/ButlVi99.htm"]Victor Butler[/URL] (6th round selection of same draft class)

Bottomline, the Skins have a top FA player on our team, and we ought to make every effort to keep him. If he chooses to walk away, then that is his choice, but it shouldn't be because the Skins were penny wise, pound foolish.[/quote]I agree. The Orakpo negotiations are a fairly easy litmus test to see if the organization is interested in getting it right this time around, and with the franchise tag, they hold a cheat card in their hand.

Basically, if they fail here, they have no one to blame but themselves.

Re: Current 2014 Free Agents
 

[quote=Irrefutable;1060935]Orakpo will be 28 when his next contract starts, do you think he will be just as productive in his 30s ?

QBs are not getting the crap beaten out of them every play so it is easy to stay motivated.

The notion I am cherry picking Redskin mistakes is absurd, their record the last 10 years on and off the field speaks for itself.

................................................

The franchise tag price for LBs is now $11.5 million, tag and trade is the best move.[/quote]Tag and trade makes a lot of sense if you don't think he'll re-sign long term, but if they go back to back franchise tags instead, that's 2 years of Orakpo at $24-26 million guaranteed, or basically a tick above market rate. He would then hit the open market at 30.

This is going to be hard for the Redskins to screw up.

Re: Current 2014 Free Agents
 

Sign him long term. They have to protect him with the tag before we get a long term deal done.

I have been waiting to hear that the skins have signed/tagged him.

Re: Current 2014 Free Agents
 

I hope we resign Rak and Perry Riley but I would not over spend to keep both of them. I love Rak but he needs to be more of a game changer against teams in the NFC East. We need drafted him and watched him develop so lets keep him and not let him go play for someone else. I do believe Riley can be replaced if he wants to much. I also think for the right price resign Brandon Merriweather to a 2 yr deal.

Re: Current 2014 Free Agents
 

The cap adjustment, some restructures, and the fact that Jordan Gross retired gave Carolina the opportunity to keep the Greg Hardy.

As for the Redskins, the question is if they let Brian Orakpo who is the next option? I think that they will target Jason Worilds and Michael Johnson. MJ got it done when he played the OLB in the 3-4.

Re: Current 2014 Free Agents
 

Here are some interesting comments by Charley Casserly on possible Redskins FA strategy:

Former Washington and Houston general manager Charley Casserly thinks that the Redskins are going to invest heavily on the offensive line when free agency starts, with “heavily” being used both literally and figuratively.

Appearing on the NFL Network on Friday morning, Casserly said that Robert Griffin III would benefit from improved protection as he tries to shake off his substandard 2013 season. He think that new head coach Jay Gruden would like to do something in free agency to help.

“If you think of Gruden in Cincinnati, they had a much bigger offensive line than what he’s inheriting in Washington,” said Casserly. “So they need to get bigger to be able to drop-back pass better.”

The numbers bear out Casserly’s statement. The lightest player on the Bengals starting line last year was center Kyle Cook at 312 pounds. It went up from there to tackle Andre Smith and guard Andrew Whitworth, both of whom are listed at 335. Trent Williams was the Redskins’ heaviest starter at 315 and the heft went down from there to guard Kory Lichtensteiger, who weighed in at 284.

If bigger is indeed better, the Redskins will have to hit the free agent market to bring in some fat boys.

“They don’t have a first-round pick so in free agency look for them to come roaring out of there in free agency for offensive line help,” said Casserly.

There seems to be little question that changes will be made along the line. Williams is the only starter who can be considered safe. We will see if Gruden and general manager Bruce Allen will made changes along the line gradually or if we are looking at three or even four new starters in 2014.

Re: Current 2014 Free Agents
 

Maybe this is why LeRibeus got fat. Such a forward thinker that Josh

Re: Current 2014 Free Agents
 

[quote=SmootSmack;1060975]Maybe this is why LeRibeus got fat. Such a forward thinker that Josh[/quote]

If LeRibust comes in 40 lbs overweight this year I hope Jay Gruden cuts his fat ass before he even has time to step off the scale.

Re: Current 2014 Free Agents
 

[quote=skins89moss;1060951]I hope we resign Rak and Perry Riley but I would not over spend to keep both of them. I love Rak but he needs to be more of a game changer against teams in the NFC East. We need drafted him and watched him develop so lets keep him and not let him go play for someone else. I do believe Riley can be replaced if he wants to much. [B] I also think for the right price resign Brandon Merriweather to a 2 yr deal.[/B][/quote]

Why? I wouldn't resign him to a 2 day deal.

Re: Current 2014 Free Agents
 

[quote=SmootSmack;1060975]Maybe this is why LeRibeus got fat. Such a forward thinker that Josh[/quote]

Will his laziness and don't give a f&ckness end up benefiting him with gruden? That would be a hell of a story if he ends up starting and being decent.

Re: Current 2014 Free Agents
 

[quote=Chico23231;1060980]Will his laziness and don't give a f&ckness end up benefiting him with gruden? That would be a hell of a story if he ends up starting and being decent.[/quote]

not gonna happen. problem is that there are plenty of fatasses in FA that can actually PLAY.

Re: Current 2014 Free Agents
 

I hope they go after Mack, Schwartz, and Collins.

Re: Current 2014 Free Agents
 

[quote=diehardskin2982;1060984]I hope they go after Mack, Schwartz, and Collins.[/quote]

I agree, how much will they cost ? Franchise tag is $11 million for O lineman

[QUOTE=Irrefutable;1060988]I agree, how much will they cost ? Franchise tag is $11 million for O lineman[/QUOTE]

Mack won't be tagged, don't know what he is looking for though. Top 5 centers average 7mil APY.

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Re: Current 2014 Free Agents
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1060989]Mack won't be tagged, don't know what he is looking for though. Top 5 centers average 7mil APY.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk[/quote]

5 years 32 million is what I am thinking.

Re: Current 2014 Free Agents
 

Outside Free Agents to Redskins possibly:

Alex Mack 5 years 32 million
Jairus Byrd 5 years 42 million
D'Qwell Jackson 4 years 20 million
Emmanuel Sanders 3 years 10 million

Byrd and sanders would be nice

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Re: Current 2014 Free Agents
 

Starting lean more towards Mitchell or Clemons than Byrd at free safety.

Re: Current 2014 Free Agents
 

I agree with that. There's a very small chance Byrd becomes available anyway.

[url=http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap2000000327933/article/bills-plan-to-franchise-tag-jairus-byrd-if-necessary]Buffalo Bills plan to franchise tag Jairus Byrd if needed - NFL.com[/url]

Re: Current 2014 Free Agents
 

mack would be a great signing, but, what would it cost? definitely worth at least looking into.

Re: Current 2014 Free Agents
 

I just don't see us going after a great center with so many other holes on the team. Tackle and guard more pressing along the Oline

Re: Current 2014 Free Agents
 

per Mike Jones:

Orakpo camp might be claiming he is a DE.... the franchise tag would be 13 million for a DE

apparently it is a close call what the Skins will do

Re: Current 2014 Free Agents
 

How can they use that comparison? he has played outside back since he wa drafted and plays almost all of his snaps standing up?

Re: Current 2014 Free Agents
 

[quote=Irrefutable;1061023]per Mike Jones:

Orakpo camp might be claiming he is a DE.... the franchise tag would be 13 million for a DE

apparently it is a close call what the Skins will do[/quote]

If they think he is a DE then his stats look even worse...lol Bye Bye Rak.

Re: Current 2014 Free Agents
 

[quote=Irrefutable;1061023]per Mike Jones:

Orakpo camp might be claiming he is a DE.... the franchise tag would be 13 million for a DE

apparently it is a close call what the Skins will do[/quote]

I want Rak to return but we all know that's a crock. If they wanna play it off percentage of snaps played last year it would still be LB.

Its all negotiating tactics. Basically next week there will be a 3 day period for Rak to see his market value. I can't imagine it would be near 13 mil.

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Re: Current 2014 Free Agents
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1061035]Its all negotiating tactics. Basically next week there will be a 3 day period for Rak to see his market value. I can't imagine it would be near 13 mil.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk[/quote]

Someone will pay him 11-12 per year...and having watched him for his career he isn't worth that. He is not a top 5 OLB in this league.

Re: Current 2014 Free Agents
 

if he is even asking 11mil per, then he can go kick rocks. He just isn't worth that much, and if given the amount of snaps, I would say that his performance and production could be nearly matched at substancially less. The beautiful point is that we already have his replacement on the team! For over 10.5 mil per, he should go. Under, I think we could afford to keep him.

Re: Current 2014 Free Agents
 

[quote=Mechanix544;1061037]if he is even asking 11mil per, then he can go kick rocks. He just isn't worth that much, and if given the amount of snaps, I would say that his performance and production could be nearly matched at substancially less. The beautiful point is that we already have his replacement on the team! For over 10.5 mil per, he should go. Under, I think we could afford to keep him.[/quote]

If he got around 15 sacks a year, would you say he's worth 11 million?

Orakpo and Kerrigan rushed the QB a lot less than most 3-4 OLBs around the league, and Tandler made the point that if Orakpo rushed as much as Mario Williams, he would've had 17 sacks. What most people don't realize is that our OLBs just didn't get as many sack opportunities as any other starting OLBs.

[url=http://realredskins.com/2014/02/15/haslett-says-hell-turn-orkapo-and-kerrigan-loose/]Haslett says he’ll turn Orkapo and Kerrigan loose | Rich Tandler's Real Redskins[/url]

Re: Current 2014 Free Agents
 

that said, it just doesnt seem like he shows up for NFCEast games, makes game breaking plays, or has a high motor 100% of the time. It also seems like he is a below average defender in space, and has limited pass rushing moves? Above average player? No doubt. Elite player? not close.

Re: Current 2014 Free Agents
 

[quote=SirLK26;1061042]If he got around 15 sacks a year, would you say he's worth 11 million?

Orakpo and Kerrigan rushed the QB a lot less than most 3-4 OLBs around the league, and Tandler made the point that if Orakpo rushed as much as Mario Williams, he would've had 17 sacks. What most people don't realize is that our OLBs just didn't get as many sack opportunities as any other starting OLBs.

[url=http://realredskins.com/2014/02/15/haslett-says-hell-turn-orkapo-and-kerrigan-loose/]Haslett says he’ll turn Orkapo and Kerrigan loose | Rich Tandler's Real Redskins[/url][/quote]

I say no...most of those guys don't get paid by their teams look at Peppers and Williams both went into FA and got paid by other teams. Even if was let loose all he has is one pass rush move...11-12 is too much for an OLB.

Re: Current 2014 Free Agents
 

I understand what you two are saying, but I think lots of sacks is still lots of sacks, regardless whether or not they came against NFC East teams, and regardless what kind of move he used to get there. Paying Orakpo 12 million or over is probably too much, but 11 is very reasonable, IMO, considering what kind of DL and scheme he's been rushing with.

Another thing: with the NFL evolving into a more pass happy affair, pass rushers are more valuable than in past years, and will continue to gain value.

Re: Current 2014 Free Agents
 

[quote=Mechanix544;1061044]that said, it just doesnt seem like he shows up for NFCEast games, makes game breaking plays, or has a high motor 100% of the time. It also seems like he is a below average defender in space, and has limited pass rushing moves? Above average player? No doubt. Elite player? not close.[/quote]

very well said

Another factor should be resigning Trent in 2 years, and RGIII in 3 years. The two could cost $40 million [B]per year[/B].