Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

[quote=GusFrerotte;818351]Who said anything about Shanny cutting Chase. I just said I thought Chase and Colt were brighter prospects when we got them. We did draft them, so the organization thought they had something to offer afresh. Beck is a journeyman 3rd stringer, who couldn't make backup on the sad ass Dolphins. I am supposed to have renewed confidence in this?[/quote]

That's bull, though.

Jim Zorn didn't even want Colt.

Vinny didn't draft Colt because he thought he'd contribute, Vinny drafted Colt because he was a relatively big name. Just like Malcolm Kelly and Devin Thomas from the same class. They weren't the most talented players, they were the biggest names on the board at their points in the draft.

Zorn didn't know what the hell to do with Colt. And despite his general ineptitude as a head coach, the guy is a pretty damn good quarterback coach, and he didn't know what the hell to do with a guy that he didn't even want.

No one believed Colt was ever going to become anything more than a back-up. He had an intriguing skill set, but he was a quarterback that put up big numbers in a system that doesn't even pretend the run game.

There was a reason Chase Daniel went undrafted too. Same thing as Colt; intriguing skill set. But he didn't light it up in preseason, and he didn't beat out Colt to be the third quarterback, and God knows he wasn't beating out Todd Collins and Jason Campbell. So he got cut.

John Beck was actually highly touted coming out of college. He played five games for a horrible Miami team, and then there was a regime change, and just like we're doing now, when you change regimes, some guys get left behind. Beck is that guy.

Beck did make third string back-up for the Dolphins in 2008. And then he went to Bill Parcells and basically put the cards on the table and asked if he was going to be able to compete for a starting role. Parcells pretty much told him no, and Beck asked to be traded or cut. He got cut.

Troy Smith was slated to be the starter in 2009 for the Ravens, and Flacco was the back-up, and John Beck was never going to compete with either one of those guys. He was bought in to be the third guy, and he knew he was going in to be the third string back-up guy. He wasn't given the opportunity to compete. Again.

Then we traded for him, and we extended his contract before Rex, before DONOVAN even. Which meant we liked what we saw.

Now he's getting his chance.

Know your facts before you start labeling people "journeymen" who struggled to make the third string.

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

[quote=GusFrerotte;818371]Possible hype job due to the fact the guy hasn't cracked second string with 3 teams and now all of a sudden he is going to actually compete for a starting position. Could happen, but I wouldn't bet money on it. You are asking for another Kurt Warner story to occur, and that might be a little much at this point for me to swallow.[/quote]

Definitely not asking for Beck to turn into Kurt Warner, although it'd be great if he did. And a hype job is when you have somebody, say a Cam Newton for instance, and everybody hypes him up as a sure fire Pro Bowler even though he's never taken a snap in the NFL.

Now let me add a disclaimer, I'm not saying Newton is going to be a bust, that is just a random example of a hype job. Starting a quarterback that absolutely nobody has no confidence in whatsoever is not a hype job. That's all I'm sayin. Don't read into my post like that. And I'll also say that my main point is you just need to have a little faith in our coach. You know, that guy who lives and breathes football. That guy who constantly breaks down film and works with Beck everyday and knows more about him than we ever will. Yeah. That guy. He has a pretty good idea of what he's doing.

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

[quote=mooby;818370]I don't know about the rest of you guys, but I definitely wasn't on the "start a 6th rounder or an undrafted free agent qb over Jason Campbell" bandwagon. I was on the "fix the offensive line" bandwagon though.[/quote]

Oh really now? You had threads about these two guys, with a lot of debates going on. I wasn't on the Colt bandwagon, but was for Chase somewhat. Remember the Cult of Colt? I should not have said everybody, but everybody seemed to have an opinion about those two, and each one had their "fans". Like you, I also wanted them to revamp the O line, but did want to see a QB shakeup, if anything to light a fire under JC's butt!

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

[quote=GusFrerotte;818366]I am not closed to the thought Beck can turn it around and Shanny can mentor him or give him the shot he needs. Right now, I am going by the guy's history of being 3rd string everywhere he goes. Matty made a point on how both Chase and Colt haven't made a mark after we let them loose, but they were drafted by us and never could unseat JC, but we did think highly enough of them to draft them. At the time we drafted them, most of us were enthusiastic about each of them and were begging for them to get a shot at starting. Alas it all was for not, but with Beck, he was a FA journeyman QB, when we acquired him. All my Lions fan friends are asking me WTF? You just have to hope the guy works hard and sees this at a shot at redemption.[/quote]

Honestly, I don't blame them. I mean last year I laughed at the Cards for cutting Leinart and starting Anderson, and in retrospect I was right. Now the Skins seem to be doing the same thing by trading McNabb, except in this case the only thing keeping the Beck experiment from being a complete laughing stock is once again, Shanny's track record with these types of players.

A young Brian Griese, a statistical pariah in Jake Plummer, and even INT king Jay Cutler who despite being a first round QB was an afterthought after Young and Leinart in 06. Between the two Shanny's you have 5 pro bowl QB's that made it to Hawaii/Miami under their tutelage.

I don't know, I guess I don't want to be a Beck apologist just because he's the favorite to be the starting QB this year. I want to be able to do it for the right reasons. From what I've seen a Kool Aid drinker can easily be just as annoying as a doom and gloomer.

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

[quote=GusFrerotte;818374]Oh really now? You had threads about these two guys, with a lot of debates going on. I wasn't on the Colt bandwagon, but was for Chase somewhat. Remember the Cult of Colt? I should not have said everybody, but everybody seemed to have an opinion about those two, and each one had their "fans". Like you, I also wanted them to revamp the O line, but did want to see a QB shakeup, if anything to light a fire under JC's butt![/quote]

I had threads about Chase Daniel and the Cult of Colt? When? If you can find a specific instance of me saying I would prefer Chase Daniel or Colt Brennan to start over JC, please, enlighten me. And the Cult of Colt was a joke. Not in the, all the members of that club were losers sense, more in the, I don't think any of the members of that club actually were serious about Colt Brennan starting, sense.

You are right, in that everybody did have their opinions about those two, but even their fans probably weren't serious about a rookie 6th round quarterback or an undrafted free agent starting at quarterback in the upcoming season. Hell, Smootsmack was/is one of Chase Daniels' biggest "fans" on this board, but go and ask him if he [B][I]really[/I][/B] thinks Daniel should've started over JC, despite the fact that he was undrafted and a system qb at Mizzou.

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

[url=http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/dc-sports-bog/post/shanahan-beck-doubters-dont-study-film/2011/08/01/gIQArAjynI_blog.html]Shanahan: Beck doubters don’t study film - DC Sports Bog - The Washington Post[/url]

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

[quote=GridIron26;818378][url=http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/dc-sports-bog/post/shanahan-beck-doubters-dont-study-film/2011/08/01/gIQArAjynI_blog.html]Shanahan: Beck doubters don’t study film - DC Sports Bog - The Washington Post[/url][/quote]

I'm more of a Beck skeptic.

[quote]Skepticism (or scepticism) has many definitions, but generally refers to any questioning attitude of knowledge, facts, or opinions/beliefs stated as facts,[1] or doubt regarding claims that are taken for granted elsewhere[/quote]

I wonder what film he's talking about though. If he means last years preseason or the daily practice footage that none of us have access to. Still it's actually kind of relieving to see Shanahan make such a hard play to back Beck.

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

Hopefully to the Number 1 overall pick next season !!! We need a Franchise Quarterback more than we ever have. Remember the Shane Mathews era? Wonder who we call up to bat when Beck blows up !!

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

[quote=GusFrerotte;818318]To think we ditched probably better QB prospects over the past few seasons(Brennan, Daniel) to end up with Beck and Clemens is rather sobering.[/quote]


[IMG]http://img.fannation.com/upload/user_image/image/151/127/full/dude-wait-what.jpg[/IMG]


:laughing2

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

[quote=mooby;818342]Mwah? I don't hate him, just innocently forgot that he existed and is under contract for the Redskins. It's easy to do that when you think he has a snowball's chance in hell of starting for this team. But for competition purposes, I'll include him.

Beck v. Grossman (once he resigns) v. Clemens v. Chappell.

There you happy?[/quote]

Hey, back in the day, Clemens beat out Patrick Ramsey - he must be an all-star!

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;818435]Hey, back in the day, Clemens beat out Patrick Ramsey - he must be an all-star![/quote]

Patrick Ramsey is one of the all-time great Redskins QBs and you will not speak ill of him

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

[quote=Dirtbag59;818380]I'm more of a Beck skeptic.



I wonder what film he's talking about though. If he means last years preseason or the daily practice footage that none of us have access to. Still it's actually kind of relieving to see Shanahan make such a hard play to back Beck.[/quote]

He's basically saying trust us, we know a heck of a lot more than the fans do.

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

[quote=Mattyk;818361]Look at it this way, Shanahan had plenty of chances to upgrade the QB spot if he wanted to. He could have drafted someone, traded for someone, or picked up a free agent. So why is he rolling with Beck or Rex? I'd love to hear a legit response. And don't even bring up tanking for Luck.[/quote]

Sheer arrogance and incompetence. They did bring in McNabb for a second round pick only to let him go the following year afterall. It seems to me they are simply throwing shit at the wall hoping it sticks.

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

[quote=Dirtbag59;818380]I'm more of a Beck skeptic.



I wonder what film he's talking about though. If he means last years preseason or the daily practice footage that none of us have access to. Still it's actually kind of relieving to see Shanahan make such a hard play to back Beck.[/quote]

Shanahan is really sticking his neck out for this guy and I really have no idea why. He keeps going back to his BYU days. Does he realize that was in freakin' 2006 and it was college ball in a conference that plays NO DEFENSE? I can't wrap my head around his man crush for this guy. A noodle arm on deep throws isn't going to cut it in Nov. and Dec. when the weather is bad. He realizes we get bad weather here. Right??

Not to change this around but this is why Tom Brady is such a great QB. Better than Manning. He can sling it and put it on the money in any kind of weather....rain, snow, sleet... doesn't matter.

Re: How far can Beck take us?
 

[quote=Mattyk;818453]He's basically saying trust us, we know a heck of a lot more than the fans do.[/quote]

Yes he does but to me this is almost a little too ego driven.