Re: Redskins fire GM Scot McCloughan
 

[quote=SkinsGuru;1170456]i hope your right, but i am not counting on it . . . i know i wouldn't give a upper middle tier QB the highest paying contract in the history of the sport[/quote]

Unfortunately that is exactly the way it works. You overpay for what you have, knowing that in a few years the salary cap inflation will make the contract seem less crazy.

Unfortunately, when you give a big QB contract, you hope that you can draft well to keep up with FA losses, since you can't afford to keep everyone. If you don't draft well, you end up like the Colts - wasting years of good QB play with a bad team.

Re: Redskins fire GM Scot McCloughan
 

[QUOTE=Schneed10;1170449]Well I guess I see that part of it differently. I really don't think he'll make a fuss over $25M or $23M per year, I think where he would get concerned is on the guaranteed portion. So far the Skins have been downright insulting on that side of it.

I think if you offer him 5 years $115M with $60M of it guaranteed, I think he takes it. I don't think he's out to milk the team out of every last dollar, he just wants the guarantee he deserves and that makes sense to sign a long termer instead of taking it year to year.[/QUOTE]
He is guaranteed 24M this year and barring injury and/or a complete breakdown of his game this year he is guaranteed a minimum of 29M (transition tag) next year. I think for him to sign a long term deal before July 15 the Skins would have to offer at least 75 guaranteed or basically 3 years at 24M. I also think he has very little desire to stay a Skin and would prefer to see where the free agent market would set his salary.

I think the contract KC would sign is in the range of Luck's contract. If the Skins offer a "fair" contract and he rejects it than I have no problem not paying him top 3 money for what his performance has been.

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Re: Redskins fire GM Scot McCloughan
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;1170461]He is guaranteed 24M this year and barring injury and/or a complete breakdown of his game this year he is guaranteed a minimum of 29M (transition tag) next year. I think for him to sign a long term deal before July 15 the Skins would have to offer at least 75 guaranteed or basically 3 years at 24M. I also think he has very little desire to stay a Skin and would prefer to see where the free agent market would set his salary.

I think the contract KC would sign is in the range of Luck's contract. [B]If the Skins offer a "fair" contract and he rejects it than I have no problem not paying him top 3 money for what his performance has been.
[/B]
Sent from my SM-G935T using Tapatalk[/quote]

I couldn't care less if the Skins were to overpay to keep Kirk Cousins. I don't care one iota how his contract compares to any other player's contract. They can pay him twice as much as Tom Brady makes for all I care. I just want them to sign him to a long-term contract.

We all know our history with QB's and, with that in mind, I have no desire to see the Skins gamble once again at that critical position. I believe that Kirk is good enough now to get us where we want to go and he gets even better every season.

To the Skins management I say this: "We have a QB we can win with for the next 5 to 10 years. That QB is Kirk Cousins. So just shut up and pay up!

Re: Redskins fire GM Scot McCloughan
 

[quote=KI Skins Fan;1170467]I couldn't care less if the Skins were to overpay to keep Kirk Cousins. I don't care one iota how his contract compares to any other player's contract. They can pay him twice as much as Tom Brady makes for all I care. I just want them to sign him to a long-term contract.

We all know our history with QB's and, with that in mind, I have no desire to see the Skins gamble once again at that critical position. I believe that Kirk is good enough now to get us where we want to go and he gets even better every season.

To the Skins management I say this: "We have a QB we can win with for the next 5 to 10 years. That QB is Kirk Cousins. So just shut up and pay up![/quote]

You will care when they can't afford to put anyone around him. That is the foundation of the argument. Is Kirk good enough that you can over pay him a bit and his talent makes up for the lost of potential players we could have had if not for his salary. B-more some what has that problem now with Joe F. and his contract.

Re: Redskins fire GM Scot McCloughan
 

[quote=mredskins;1170468][B]You will care when they can't afford to put anyone around him. [/B]That is the foundation of the argument. Is Kirk good enough that you can over pay him a bit and his talent makes up for the lost of potential players we could have had if not for his salary. B-more some what has that problem now with Joe F. and his contract.[/quote]

That's why you build through the draft.

Besides, it's all about the guaranteed money anyway. It looks to me that the Redskins management is trying to pull a fast one on the guaranteed amount to compensate for their own stupidity in signing Kirk to [U]two[/U] franchise tag deals. That's about real money, not salary cap dollars.

There is no way that Kirk and his representatives are going to let the Skins make up for the $19M they paid him last season by trying to pay him a low guaranteed amount on a new long-term deal signed prior to this season. I'd guess that about 40% of any long-term deal would need to be guaranteed to get Kirk to sign.

Re: Redskins fire GM Scot McCloughan
 

[quote=KI Skins Fan;1170472][B]That's why you build through the draft. [/B]

Besides, it's all about the guaranteed money anyway. It looks to me that the Redskins management is trying to pull a fast one on the guaranteed amount to compensate for their own stupidity in signing Kirk to [U]two[/U] franchise tag deals. That's about real money, not salary cap dollars.

There is no way that Kirk and his representatives are going to let the Skins make up for the $19M they paid him last season by trying to pay him a low guaranteed amount on a new long-term deal signed prior to this season. I'd guess that about 40% of any long-term deal would need to be guaranteed to get Kirk to sign.[/quote]

Yeah build through the draft great, but look at the Saints. Drew Brees is giving them their money's worth, he's great, but there's no room for error. If you don't draft perfectly you have little recourse to make up for it.

I still think Cousins will sign as long as the offer is reasonable.

Re: Redskins fire GM Scot McCloughan
 

[quote=Schneed10;1170476]Yeah build through the draft great, but look at the Saints. Drew Brees is giving them their money's worth, he's great, but there's no room for error. If you don't draft perfectly you have little recourse to make up for it.

I still think Cousins will sign as long as the offer is reasonable.[/quote]

Great example with Brees...another would be the Ravens. Since Flacco signed the big contract...they've gotten worse each year as their big names have gone away.

Re: Redskins fire GM Scot McCloughan
 

[quote=ethat001;1170458]Unfortunately that is exactly the way it works. You overpay for what you have, knowing that in a few years the salary cap inflation will make the contract seem less crazy.

Unfortunately, when you give a big QB contract, you hope that you can draft well to keep up with FA losses, since you can't afford to keep everyone. If you don't draft well, you end up like the Colts - wasting years of good QB play with a bad team.[/quote]

i would agree if he was a top tier QB . . . he is NOT . . . never in the history of the NFL has a middle tier QB been the highest paid player ever . . . it will take many years before the middle tier QB's get paid that much.

Re: Redskins fire GM Scot McCloughan
 

[quote=ethat001;1170458]Unfortunately that is exactly the way it works. You overpay for what you have, knowing that in a few years the salary cap inflation will make the contract seem less crazy.

Unfortunately, when you give a big QB contract, you hope that you can draft well to keep up with FA losses, since you can't afford to keep everyone. If you don't draft well, you end up like the Colts - wasting years of good QB play with a bad team.[/quote]

People really don't understand the concept of inflation.

Re: Redskins fire GM Scot McCloughan
 

[quote=SkinsGuru;1170481]i would agree if he was a top tier QB . . . he is NOT . . . never in the history of the NFL has a middle tier QB been the highest paid player ever . . . it will take many years before the middle tier QB's get paid that much.[/quote]

Oh really? QB salaries keep going up, but at the time, the contracts below were very expensive, Flacco is the best comparison - an average QB paid elite money..


Joe Flacco - [URL="http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/ravens/bal-breaking-down-baltimore-ravens-quarterback-joe-flaccos-1206-million-contract-20130305-story.html"]$120 mil contract in 2014[/URL], $44 guaranteed, still $22 mil / year = top 4 contract currently


Andy Dalton - [URL="http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/andy-dalton-bengals-agree-to-six-year-115-million-contract/"]$115 mil contract in 2014[/URL]


Brock Osweiler - $18/mil, $37 guaranteed (8th most guaranteed money in history)
Ryan Tannehil - $19.2 mil/yaer
Colin Kaepernick $126 million, avg $21/yr
Jay Cutler $126 million, avg 18/year

Re: Redskins fire GM Scot McCloughan
 

It simply comes down to supply and demand. There just isn't enough of a supply of above average quarterback in the league on the level of Kirk Cousins. The quarterbacks who are better than Cousins are franchise, elite quarterbacks. IMO, Cousins falls underneath that category, but is well within the potential of taking a team to the Super Bowl if that team has been well built.

Having said all of that, Cousins is worth a big contract. However, I think the Redskins should draft a quarterback next year and be prepared to not have Cousins after 2018.

Re: Redskins fire GM Scot McCloughan
 

[quote=ethat001;1170566]Oh really? QB salaries keep going up, but at the time, the contracts below were very expensive, Flacco is the best comparison - an average QB paid elite money..


Joe Flacco - [URL="http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/ravens/bal-breaking-down-baltimore-ravens-quarterback-joe-flaccos-1206-million-contract-20130305-story.html"]$120 mil contract in 2014[/URL], $44 guaranteed, still $22 mil / year = top 4 contract currently


Andy Dalton - [URL="http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/andy-dalton-bengals-agree-to-six-year-115-million-contract/"]$115 mil contract in 2014[/URL]


Brock Osweiler - $18/mil, $37 guaranteed (8th most guaranteed money in history)
Ryan Tannehil - $19.2 mil/yaer
Colin Kaepernick $126 million, avg $21/yr
Jay Cutler $126 million, avg 18/year[/quote]

those are all FAR lower than he wants . . . he wants 75 million guaranteed and $25 per . . . to 6 year, $150 million, $75 guaranteed . . . that dwarfs all of the deals you just mentioned . . . nobody in the history of the nfl has had as high of a deal . . . period. look at the guaranteed on those deals too . . . cap was out of his in two years . . . a total of $36 million paid out.

give me $21 - $23 per and $50 guaranteed and i'd take it in a heart beat.

Re: Redskins fire GM Scot McCloughan
 

[quote=SkinsGuru;1170664]those are all FAR lower than he wants . . . he wants 75 million guaranteed and $25 per . . . to 6 year, $150 million, $75 guaranteed . . . that dwarfs all of the deals you just mentioned . . . nobody in the history of the nfl has had as high of a deal . . . period. look at the guaranteed on those deals too . . . cap was out of his in two years . . . a total of $36 million paid out.

give me $21 - $23 per and $50 guaranteed and i'd take it in a heart beat.[/quote]

If those are the numbers Kirk's side is asking for, that suggests to me that the negotiations have not begun in earnest. Naturally, Kirk's side is starting off high. The numbers you suggested seem to me to be in the range of what it would take to sign Kirk to a long-term contract, [U]if[/U] he wants to be here.

The good news is that Kirk's unresolved contract status doesn't seem to have gotten in the way of building the team during the off-season.

Re: Redskins fire GM Scot McCloughan
 

When are people going to understand that average to above average QB's in the NFL are going to get paid a lot of money. That's just how it is in the NFL. If you don't want to pay the premium then draft someone and let them play on their rookie deal, or go get Brian Hoyer.

Re: Redskins fire GM Scot McCloughan
 

[quote=skinsfan69;1170674]When are people going to understand that average to above average QB's in the NFL are going to get paid a lot of money. That's just how it is in the NFL. If you don't want to pay the premium then draft someone and let them play on their rookie deal, or go get Brian Hoyer.[/quote]

This is a great post, i 100% agree. This is the message i was trying to get across in the other Cousins thread. The Redskins might want to play "moneyball" at QB, if they get a good system in place. Draft a guy, you know you have him cheap for a few years, when he asks for starting QB money, send him packing.