Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

[QUOTE=GTripp0012;443821]Alright, if I give you Davis and Kelly, can you come up with any sort of defense for the Thomas pick with every other receiver (except Avery) available?

Would we not have been better off with Jordy Nelson?[/QUOTE]

GTripp, wouldn't you have more of a lowdown on Thomas since you're in MI?

What about him don't you like? All I know is that he's a bit raw, but he's got the most upside out of the rest of the group. Didn't he lead the Big 10 in receiving?

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

[quote=Schneed10;443815]I'm in love with all three of these picks.

First off, it shows that our coaches and GM aren't smoking crack and drinking the Anthony Mix Kool Aid. They recognize that we need serious weapons. They're right.

Santana Moss, as good as he is, doesn't score enough TDs. Same with ARE. Down in the red zone these guys disappear. Nevermind the fact that Moss is getting older and that without these WRs, James Thrash or Anthony Mix would be our #3 WR (horrible).

Fred Davis gives us a second TE weapon, another big body for making yards after the catch.

We got serious value out of our picks. You guys are crazy.[/quote]Where or when do we play these guys? It's a hard sell in this league that "everyone on the active roster are starters". Guys know that that their contracts are based on opportunities to become a star. You can't be a star if you're sharing the ball with 6 other players. Good thing is we don't have any selfish ball hogs. You just wonder if the writing's on the wall. On the other hand, we only have two contributing WRs on the roster and one TE. Really the only guys who have to worry is Thrash (future positional coach), Mix, Yoder (seemed to score a TD every time he caught the ball), and any other WR/TE on injured reserve last year. We just revamped.

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

Hey watch my video on the First Day of the NFL Draft for the Redskins
[YT]rHwhKVfMqFk [/YT]

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

I would have liked to have seen Campbell taken ahead of a second wide receiver. I know Blache was confident in the line. But they need help. And to take two wide receivers so close. They must see something we don't. Or maybe a move is in the works.

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

as a die hard believer in drafting Olineman in the 2nd and 3rd im a lil disappointed but i guess the talent wasnt there and wr/te options were more attractive . . . this reminds me of the time gibbs drafted a bunch of fullbacks instead of looking to develop lineman.

go skins!

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

[quote=GTripp0012;443821]Alright, if I give you Davis and Kelly, can you come up with any sort of defense for the Thomas pick with every other receiver (except Avery) available?

Would we not have been better off with Jordy Nelson?[/quote]
I think Jordy was a huge reach at # 36. Time will tell on Thomas. The FO must not have had the DL or OL available rated better than the slots we picked. I think the theme is "value". Was Thomas a value at # 34, based on what most teams and analysts had, I believe so. Same thing with Davis and Kelly. Having Davis and Cooley could create some serious mismatch problems in a 3 WR set in the run game unless the opponent has very good coverage LBs.

Again, I'll reserve judgement until tomorrow. We still have serious needs at DL, CB, S depth, LB depth, and T depth & Guard. Hopefully we'll find value to fill those needs

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

This has Cerrato written all over it.

Thinking back to recent past drafts we have shown a penchant for simply taking best available late in the draft regardless of need. We loaded on LBs a couple years ago. Same with DTs. The end of the draft is where Vinny has lived the last few years. Taking value on day two is great but taking only value on day one is foolish I think. Each of these guys could be pro bowlers but if we can't block anyone or get to the other team's passer it wont matter. They don't help us win games if other areas of our team come up short due to injury or age.

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

Devin Thomas played junior collage football before playing two season for the Spartans. What that tells me he is hungry and wants to play. Plus the kind of numbers he put up last year were not good but exceptional.

The draft is a crapshoot but Thomas is a good pick in the 2nd round.

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

[quote=GTripp0012;443821]Alright, if I give you Davis and Kelly, can you come up with any sort of defense for the Thomas pick with every other receiver (except Avery) available?

Would we not have been better off with Jordy Nelson?[/quote]

GTripp, I understand you have a blog, and I understand that you know statistics, which apparently makes you really smart, but I gotta call you on this. You don't know what you're talking about on Thomas.

The guy is strong. He sheds tacklers when running with the ball, which is very important in a WCO when running slants and such. Seeing him on tape, he CONSISTENTLY makes plays week in and week out. He cuts with fluidity and doesn't lose speed coming in and out of breaks, which is something that makes or break a WR at the next level when they face much tighter coverage.

I'm not a measurables guy. But if you like that kind of thing, he's a 4.4 WR who stands 6 feet 2.

And the "short body of work" argument is just retarded. You can't put up 1260 yards over the course of 13 games, in a RUN ORIENTED OFFENSE, if you're not talented.

He was the best WR available in this draft.

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

[quote=Schneed10;443815]I'm in love with all three of these picks.

First off, it shows that our coaches and GM aren't smoking crack and drinking the Anthony Mix Kool Aid. They recognize that we need serious weapons. They're right.

Santana Moss, as good as he is, doesn't score enough TDs. Same with ARE. Down in the red zone these guys disappear. Nevermind the fact that Moss is getting older and that without these WRs, James Thrash or Anthony Mix would be our #3 WR (horrible).

Fred Davis gives us a second TE weapon, another big body for making yards after the catch.

We got serious value out of our picks. You guys are crazy.[/quote]

Totes.

Good football teams have a LOT of good football players. Hopefully, we just got three of them. We still need a bunch more, and it's going to to take some time.

The good part is now we get these guys in immediately to start learning the system that Zorn is going to put together. I tend to think that we could really use an older vet at WR who is a high character type with lots of experience in the WCO. These guys are going to need a mentor who is a player to help their learning curve-ARE and Moss included.

Remember, Campbell is a mobile player and if our OL starts to collapse he's going to do some improvising with his feat. The passes come out quick too, which should nullify the pass rush somewhat. These are value picks who are not overpaid.

Our defense is looking extremely suspect, but when you have as many holes as we do, you can't fix everything with three players. We have passing game options now and that is clearly the priority for a Jim Zorn coached team. We are going to plug some other holes outside of the draft ala Pete Kendall I suspect as well. Let's just see how this plays out. I'm buying it so far, but then again I don't have high expectations for this year, so I'm taking this all with a grain of salt.

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

May I remind everyone who's concerned about us not getting help along the lines...

THE DRAFT IS NOT OVER.

We have a 3rd and a 4th rounder, rounds where you can typically find very talented guards. Jumping all over the front office at this point is borderline idiotic. Wait until the draft is over.

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

[QUOTE=saden1;443832]Devin Thomas played junior collage football before playing two season for the Spartans. What that tells me he is hungry and wants to play. Plus the kind of numbers he put up last year were not good but exceptional.

The draft is a crapshoot but Thomas is a good pick in the 2nd round.[/QUOTE]

And some argue that he doesn't have much experience. But you know what his college career is just like...Chad Johnson. And say what you will about CJ off the field, I don't know that we'd have a problem with his on-field production.

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

I think if you look at the picks in the context of last year's production and not perceived needs, they absolutely make sense.

As it's been mentioned here already, our red-zone offense was putrid (sp) last year. Horrible. Morever, we were deep into the season before we saw a touchdown from a wideout? No way we can keep up with the likes of the Giants and the Cowboys this year if we struggle like that again. So from that perspective the picks make a lot of sense.

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

[QUOTE=Schneed10;443835]May I remind everyone who's concerned about us not getting help along the lines...

THE DRAFT IS NOT OVER.

We have a 3rd and a 4th rounder, rounds where you can typically find very talented guards. Jumping all over the front office at this point is borderline idiotic. Wait until the draft is over.[/QUOTE]

Definitely too early to panic.

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

I have to say I liked the buckshot approach. My favorite pick was the TE Davis. Tomorrow we have to draft on the LINE O or D I really don't care and after that some linebackers.

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

Let's get the polls up. Grade each pick!

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

Anyone who thinks they can predict with any confidence these young wr's translation or transition to the nfl is a joker.

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

On defense you have to figure, London Fletcher is one of the most durable guys in the league and arguably had his best season as a pro last year. While the defense could use some depth and a big DE coming off the edge to compliment Carter, I'm okay with some depth being added in the later rounds.

I think the key on defense is getting back both Carlos Rogers and Rocky Mac. I'm not sure what the time table is there, but it's possible the FO feels like they'll be ready to sooner than what's being reported.

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

Hey Im new to this board. Really interesting posts. I really like all our picks today. I think that its hard to judge a pick based on whether we already have someone great in that position since situations occur (injuries). Davis is an animal and I really believe that the two receivers in time can be at least solid contributors. But I guess time will tell.

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

[quote=12thMan;443837]I think if you look at the picks in the context of last year's production and not perceived needs, they absolutely make sense.

As it's been mentioned here already, our red-zone offense was putrid (sp) last year. Horrible. Morever, we were deep into the season before we saw a touchdown from a wideout? No way we can keep up with the likes of the Giants and the Cowboys this year if we struggle like that again. So from that perspective the picks make a lot of sense.[/quote]

very good point, and I completely agree:goodjob:

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

[QUOTE=EXoffender;443840]Let's get the polls up. Grade each pick![/QUOTE]

I think we'll grade the draft as a whole tomorrow

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

That is right the Draft is not over and it is definitely not over for the Skins. I do not have a crystal ball but hopefully these guys will do a good job in DC. The Draft and where you fall in the Draft does not guarantee your success in the NFL (Think Heath Shuler, Ryan Leaf or Desmond Howard).

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

It's probably been mentioned already but Thomas also adds a lot of value as a return man

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

On WRs, ask yourself this...

Do the Redskins currently have a #1 receiver?

Because not every team in the NFL does. Just because you're the top WR on your team doesn't make you a true #1, the kind of guy who can consistently and reliably force the defense to alter their defensive scheme to account for his talent.

I don't think Moss is a #1. When he's fully healthy he's very dangerous and teams have to put a safety overtop. But he's hurt so often that in many games he's not scary to a defense.

Furthermore, after Moss, do we even have a #2? ARE, to me, is a #3. After him, we have nothing. NOTHING. And if you try to tell me we have Anthony Mix, I'm going to unleash the hounds on you so hard you'll wish your screen name was jsarno.

We are in desperate need of WRs. Picking two, especially these two who fell further than they should, was brilliant drafting.

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

The more I think about it, the more I love the Davis pick. Love it. Understandably folks are grading that pick in the context of, "we have Chris Cooley, why waste a pick there?".

I really believe this is going to put a lot of pressure on defenses to dial nickel or dime coverages to cover both Cooley and Davis. Hell, Cooley was getting it in done with no help last year.

Of all the picks, I think Davis might be the steal of the draft.

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;443838]Definitely too early to panic.[/QUOTE]

Given that we made the playoffs last year and retained all our of key contributors, I think that regardless of who we drafted there's no reason to panic. I think our offense is loaded and we just need to spend our 3rd or 4th on a backup O-lineman. But, that still leaves us with needs at DE, DT, CB and S. There's no need to panic, but I don't think we can address all those holes with day 2 picks.

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

[QUOTE=Schneed10;443835]May I remind everyone who's concerned about us not getting help along the lines...

THE DRAFT IS NOT OVER.

We have a 3rd and a 4th rounder, rounds where you can typically find very talented guards. Jumping all over the front office at this point is borderline idiotic. Wait until the draft is over.[/QUOTE]

im not disappointed with the FO for not picking O line, im disappointed their wasnt an Oline guy the skins thought was worth the pick if that makes sense. i guess i should be happy they didnt stretch for a guy just to fill a need and leave a higher rated potential impact wr on the board.

what O lineman can i look forward to seeing the skins draft in 3 and 4?

go skins!

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

[quote=12thMan;443849]The more I think about it, the more I love the Davis pick. Love it. Understandably folks are grading that pick in the context of, "we have Chris Cooley, why waste a pick there?".

I really believe this is going to put a lot of pressure on defenses to dial nickel or dime coverages to cover both Cooley and Davis. Hell, Cooley was getting it in done with no help last year.

Of all the picks, I think Davis might be the steal of the draft.[/quote]

I also love it.

People need to understand that with a new coach will come a new scheme.

Maybe I'm just a little too forward thinking or something, but is it really that hard to envision a 2-TE set with Cooley and Davis on either side of the formation when it's 3rd and goal?

Cooley and Davis on the field together in the red zone would give defenses fits. Cerrato is clearly building this team with red zone offense in mind.

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

fred davis? when we could had joey haynos in the 7th?? really?

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

[quote=Schneed10;443848]On WRs, ask yourself this...

Do the Redskins currently have a #1 receiver?

Because not every team in the NFL does. Just because you're the top WR on your team doesn't make you a true #1, the kind of guy who can consistently and reliably force the defense to alter their defensive scheme to account for his talent.

I don't think Moss is a #1. When he's fully healthy he's very dangerous and teams have to put a safety overtop. But he's hurt so often that in many games he's not scary to a defense.

Furthermore, after Moss, do we even have a #2? ARE, to me, is a #3. After him, we have nothing. NOTHING. And if you try to tell me we have Anthony Mix, I'm going to unleash the hounds on you so hard you'll wish your screen name was jsarno.

We are in desperate need of WRs. Picking two, especially these two who fell further than they should, was brilliant drafting.[/quote]


After I got over the shock of 2 WR i started looking at it that way. Moss is geting injury proned and Randle El really is a number 3. Thomas and Kelly could end up being a deadly tandem like CJ and TJ or Harrison and Wayne or Peanut Butter and Jelly the sky is the limit.

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

I have been completely against taking a wr on day 1. I like the Davis pick and in 2 or 3 years (when Thomas and Kelly are seasoned enough to be starters in the NFL) then it could turn out to be great.
We just have to hope that there are no OLine injuries since we still have no depth and hope that with only one actual pass rusher that the secondary can cover for a minute per play.

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

Could Davis play FB maybe?

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

Another thing, how many times in the past four years have we taken a defender with the first pick?

Off the top of my head, it was like Carlos Rogers, Rocky McIntosh, Sean Taylor (R.I.P)..who else?

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

[quote=itvnetop;443763]Interesting take from ESPN's Gary Horton:

"They're obviously trying to load up on offensive weapons and use many formations. It has been the goal of the organization to put multiple receivers on the field, which opens up the run game. Now you have the current group of WRs, you have an athletic TE in Fred Davis. They should help in the passing game down the field. [B]You now open things up for Clinton Portis and you have the luxury of moving Chris Cooley all over the field as a Dallas Clark kind of guy[/B]. This potentially looks like an offense that's going to be very tough to match up against. Their depth on the perimeter will take most defenses farther than they can go."

Maybe there is a method to the madness, fellas. Perhaps we can utilize Cooley more in space now- how many times did he have to stay in and block? BFD will not only provide this on protection, he can also act as decoy protection later on in the game and curl underneath and/or take it down the field. The defense is going to have to account for a lot more now. The Davis pick is more than meets the eye.[/quote] Except we have JC running our offence , not P. Manning . If the OL stays healthy , we should have a damn good Off. OL, OL , DL on day 2 :)

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[quote=WillH;443856]Could Davis play FB maybe?[/quote]

I think you'll see him line up there, but I have to think if you take a guy that early, you're not utilizing him primarily as FB.

But yes, I could see in some Jumbo packages...or even Super Jumbo, Davis, Sellers and Cooley in there together.

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[QUOTE=12thMan;443857]Another thing, how many times in the past four years have we taken a defender with the first pick?

Off the top of my head, it was like Carlos Rogers, Rocky McIntosh, Sean Taylor (R.I.P)..who else?[/QUOTE]

Landry

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

A TE when we have other needs and already have a pro bowl TE? I feel like a jets fan.

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

The more I think about the WR picks I start to think about Moss' hamstring injuries in NY that lead to him coming here for Coles. He had a bruised heel this year and that awful game that he pulled himself out of. The WR picks don't bode well for his long-term future here. ARE will be fine as he's more versatile is a solid slot or # 3 and can focus more on his return game.

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

[quote=12thMan;443857]Another thing, how many times in the past four years have we taken a defender with the first pick?

Off the top of my head, it was like Carlos Rogers, Rocky McIntosh, Sean Taylor (R.I.P)..who else?[/quote]

Landry.

Keep going back: Arrington, Kenard Lang, Tom Carter...

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

3 2nd round picks 2 WR & a TE a new system, everyone starting on the same page, these guys should be able to contribute right away if not this year then next year our offense is going to be high powered the rest of the NFL the redskins are serving notice, pick your poision try to stop the run and we will throw on you and vice versa.