Re: 49ers vs. Redskins Game Day Thread
 

[quote=GusFrerotte;856458]Don't need to be an ex coach to tell it like it is. The big problem a lot of us have is how the team is playing, and it is all too reminescent of the Zorn era. Losing is like a virus, and it is catchy. London Fletcher is getting frustrated and might decide to hang it up with this crap. The lockerroom might be lost to the coaching staff by month's end, if not sooner. A mark of any good coach is to adjust your game plan to the personnell you have to work with. Why didn't we run more of Helu? Even give Torain a few carries? Harbaugh is a rook NFL coach and seems to have his shit together more than the Shanahans? He is stuck with Alex Smith, not the best QB out there. What does he do? He focuses on the running game with Gore and K. Smith and only goes to A. Smith when he needs to or gives Smith a pass play on 1st or 2nd down on occasion to keep the D honest. Bottom line, he focuses on the strengths of his roster. Why did the Shanny put the game in Beck's hand? The guy is a deer in headlights![/quote]

Grossman was playing well early in the year and Shanny was a genius for getting the best out of a guy who is widely viewed as a joke around the league. Our "three-headed-monster":silly: was allowing us to control the ball.. What happened? Grossman developed the same bad habits he's always had and began to hold us back. Considering this was a competition from day 1 we moved on to Beck who played well for two games and what happened? Injuries and Beck developed some bad habits which are essentially being afraid to throw the ball because of the inevitable pressure.

You want more rushing from Helu/Torain? We were down two possessions at this point and didn't have ANY type of success in the passing attack which lead to a stacked box and small gains from Helu. Once the pressure came off Beck was having his way on the defense.. Which is unfortunate and frustrating, but it shows that there is success somewhere in this offense..

Mike Shanahan is not the problem here, the problem is our quarterbacks just flat out suck and Alex Smith is relatively decent when you look at all 32 teams in the league and who they start.

Re: 49ers vs. Redskins Game Day Thread
 

[quote=The Goat;856461]This. Harbaugh is a turd but you cannot deny his talent as a coach. Alex Smith's accuracy has sky rocketed this year because Harbaugh built the scheme around him. LOL though when you said deer in the headlights I wondered if Beck or Mike is the deer![/quote]


He built it around a system that let Alex be the most productive he can be, and that is put an emphasis on the running game still to keep the pressure off of him. He doesn't really attempt that many passes, but when he does he is indeed accurate like you say.

Re: 49ers vs. Redskins Game Day Thread
 

[quote=IrMitchell;856465]Grossman was playing well early in the year and Shanny was a genius for getting the best out of a guy who is widely viewed as a joke around the league. Our "three-headed-monster":silly: was allowing us to control the ball.. What happened? Grossman developed the same bad habits he's always had and began to hold us back. Considering this was a competition from day 1 we moved on to Beck who played well for two games and what happened? Injuries and Beck developed some bad habits which are essentially being afraid to throw the ball because of the inevitable pressure.

You want more rushing from Helu/Torain? We were down two possessions at this point and didn't have ANY type of success in the passing attack which lead to a stacked box and small gains from Helu. Once the pressure came off Beck was having his way on the defense.. Which is unfortunate and frustrating, but it shows that there is success somewhere in this offense..

Mike Shanahan is not the problem here, the problem is our quarterbacks just flat out suck and Alex Smith is relatively decent when you look at all 32 teams in the league and who they start.[/quote]

Yeah, but who brought in those Qbs? Also, this is NFC East ball, you just run your new #1 RB only 10 times? I can see 10 times a half, but 10 times a game? Why did KS go pass happy with a sucky QB? The best HCs can bring out the best in what they have to work with or make gameplans that reflect as such. At this point Ir I am starting to think MS is doing not necessarily a "Suck for Luck" thing, but a "Dive for a Top Five" sort of thing for Landry Jones, Moore, Barkely, etc.

Re: 49ers vs. Redskins Game Day Thread
 

[quote=GusFrerotte;856468][B]He built it around a system that let Alex be the most productive he can be[/B], and that is put an emphasis on the running game still to keep the pressure off of him. He doesn't really attempt that many passes, but when he does he is indeed accurate like you say.[/quote]

I wish we could get a coaching staff that does this. It seems that the past couple of years we have coaches that have a scheme and stick to that scheme regardless whether the players fit it or not.

Re: 49ers vs. Redskins Game Day Thread
 

[quote=Ruhskins;856472]I wish we could get a coaching staff that does this. It seems that the past couple of years we have coaches that have a scheme and stick to that scheme regardless whether the players fit it or not.[/quote]

Children like Kyle Shanahan dont seem to get that.

Re: 49ers vs. Redskins Game Day Thread
 

[quote=Alvin Walton;856475]Children like Kyle Shanahan dont seem to get that.[/quote]

Smith is a lot better than Grossman or Beck, hence the difference. Smith has been lacking confidence, not talent. Harbaugh has put him in a position to succeed slowly and adding more each week as he starts to improve and it shows.

Re: 49ers vs. Redskins Game Day Thread
 

[quote=GusFrerotte;856471][B]Yeah, but who brought in those Qbs?[/B] Also, this is NFC East ball, you just run your new #1 RB only 10 times? I can see 10 times a half, but 10 times a game? Why did KS go pass happy with a sucky QB? The best HCs can bring out the best in what they have to work with or make gameplans that reflect as such. At this point Ir I am starting to think MS is doing not necessarily a "Suck for Luck" thing, but a "Dive for a Top Five" sort of thing for Landry Jones, Moore, Barkely, etc.[/quote]

It's what we had. I'd love to say there were better options, but I mean Vince Young? Matt Hasselbeck? Definitely better players, but he knew what he was getting with them. Remember not too long ago Jon Gruden said, "John Beck is the best kept secret in football". There was a lot of curiosity with John Beck and it was probably because of how he performed in practice all of last year. Shanahan took a chance knowing that either Ponder, Gabbert, and I'd say Dalton but he wasn't within our reach, weren't his guy.

I fully agree though, I think Mike tried to win, and once Grossman stopped succeeding, it was "let's see what we have time" fully expecting a top 10 pick.

Re: 49ers vs. Redskins Game Day Thread
 

[IMG]http://images.sexycostumes.com/a-adult-mad-hatter-hat-1.jpg[/IMG]

Re: 49ers vs. Redskins Game Day Thread
 

[quote=IrMitchell;856479]It's what we had. I'd love to say there were better options, but I mean [B]Vince Young? Matt Hasselbeck?[/B] Definitely better players, but he knew what he was getting with them. Remember not too long ago Jon Gruden said, "John Beck is the best kept secret in football". There was a lot of curiosity with John Beck and it was probably because of how he performed in practice all of last year. Shanahan took a chance knowing that either Ponder, Gabbert, and I'd say Dalton but he wasn't within our reach, weren't his guy.

I fully agree though, I think Mike tried to win, and once Grossman stopped succeeding, it was "let's see what we have time" fully expecting a top 10 pick.[/quote]

Hasselbeck was probably asking for starter money, but he is playing okay with no receivers and no running game from CJ. Who knows how Vince Young would have played, but he would not have been too expensive.

Re: 49ers vs. Redskins Game Day Thread
 

I'd keep watching if we had a rookie QB to build on but we r ****ing boring too watch and I'm not wasting my time anymore

Re: 49ers vs. Redskins Game Day Thread
 

[quote=Ruhskins;856491]Hasselbeck was probably asking for starter money, but he is playing okay with no receivers and no running game from CJ. [B]Who knows how Vince Young would have played, but he would not have been too expensive.[/B][/quote]

And he got injured.

The truth is, Shanny did the right thing.. It just hurts knowing that Ponder and Dalton seem to be the answer for their teams.

Re: 49ers vs. Redskins Game Day Thread
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;856499]I'd keep watching if we had a rookie QB to build on but we r ****ing boring too watch and I'm not wasting my time anymore[/quote]
Wait really?

Re: 49ers vs. Redskins Game Day Thread
 

[quote=IrMitchell;856479]It's what we had. I'd love to say there were better options, but I mean [B]Vince Young?[/B] Matt Hasselbeck? [B]Definitely better[/B] players, but he knew what he was getting with them. Remember not too long ago Jon Gruden said, "John Beck is the best kept secret in football". There was a lot of curiosity with John Beck and it was probably because of how he performed in practice all of last year. Shanahan took a chance knowing that either Ponder, Gabbert, and I'd say Dalton but he wasn't within our reach, weren't his guy.

I fully agree though, I think Mike tried to win, and once Grossman stopped succeeding, it was "let's see what we have time" fully expecting a top 10 pick.[/quote]

Uh oh. Vince Young talks again? lol

Re: 49ers vs. Redskins Game Day Thread
 

[quote=DynamiteRave;856503]Uh oh. Vince Young talks again? lol[/quote]

It's true!

Re: 49ers vs. Redskins Game Day Thread
 

Was very happy to see the young guys Hankerson and Helu have good efforts. With the improvement we have seen on defense, and Hank and Helu producing gives us some hope for the future. Throw in Davis having a good year, I can see a light at the end of the tunnel. Maybe just maybe if we finally get that franchise Qb in the draft, he will have some weapons and a good defense behind him so that this 20 years of hell will end.

Re: 49ers vs. Redskins Game Day Thread
 

[quote=kevinjames1973;856505]Was very happy to see the young guys Hankerson and Helu have good efforts. With the improvement we have seen on defense, and Hank and Helu producing gives us some hope for the future. Throw in Davis having a good year, I can see a light at the end of the tunnel. Maybe just maybe if we finally get that franchise Qb in the draft, he will have some weapons and a good defense behind him so that this 20 years of hell will end.[/quote]

I want to see Hankerson, Paul and Moss as starting WR (when Moss returns) Hurt at G, Helu at RB and put in Markus White for some plays.

Re: 49ers vs. Redskins Game Day Thread
 

The Niners aren't doing anything radically different this year. Leaning on Gore has been their bread and butter for a while now. He just has to stay healthy. And Smith has actually been pretty solid for a few years in a row now. The difference is he doesn't have to look over his shoulder and see Shaun Hill or Troy Smith.

Re: 49ers vs. Redskins Game Day Thread
 

[quote=The Goat;856431]It was interesting to listen to the commentators today discuss Shanny's decision to pass on all those QBs. I think another way to look at it is Mike's decision to bench/cut three consecutive QBs for a worse one i.e. Jason is better than Mcnabb, Mcnabb better than Rex and Rex better than Beck. Beck is horrible. Holy shit just horrible. Locks on his target. Slow decision-maker. Lousy pocket presence.

But I don't put the blame for another blown season on Beck or any of the players in particular. It's painfully obvious these guys aren't being coached or motivated.

It's...just...spectacular...how far Mike has regressed in all facets of coaching. Talent evaluation. Organization. Clock management. Time-out management. Ability to motivate. Scheme. Wow...just wow. This is easily the worst coaching staff we've had in years. 11 ppg average in something like four or five games.[/quote]


Regressed? No, I don't think so. I think it has more to do with putting rainbow sprinkles on crap. You can dress it up make it look real good, you can add flavoring or spray it with whatever scent suits your fancy, but in the end it's still crap.

Yes we have serious issue's with the OL. Their not giving all day protection for the QB to make his reads, but because of that then the QB needs to speed up his reads. The OC needs to call plays that will not take all day for the WR's to get to their positions to catch the ball. If a play is needed that will take a longer period to develope then roll the damn QB out. But in any event the QB needs to be accurate and what do we have? Beck who can throw deep w/o accuracy, taking too long holding on to the ball, and making bad decisions. or Grossman who is "slightly" more accurate on the short to intermediate routes, reads the defense better, gets rid of the ball quicker, but can't throw the deep ball and can't scramble away from pressure.

Not to mention we don't have any decent WR's.

The draft will need to be more offensive players this yr vs. defensive. QB, WR, OL. Then there is a need at CB and FS.

I will gladly say that sadly I was wrong about our win loss record. It is blatently apparent that either other teams have figured out what the Skins are limited to doing and are stopping it or the Skins are just really bad scematic wise. I'm sure it's just me but for some reason it looks like this team has a different bunch of plays each week. I know someone will say that's what is supposed to happen but I'm wondering if the players are still trying to learn a play book. Hopefully not a 700 page playbook. lol. But as I said I could be totally wrong. Maybe it's more the plays are the same and the defenses are knowing what is coming and are stopping it.

Re: 49ers vs. Redskins Game Day Thread
 

we just have to commit to the run. not that we will win but i think it gives us atleast a chance stay in games . . . cant believe how quickly we give up on the run.

Re: 49ers vs. Redskins Game Day Thread
 

[quote=Hail to the Redskins;856197]I still honestly think that if we have Brady, Manning, or Rogers RIGHT NOW, with THESE GUYS that we'd be over .500 and fighting for the division.

I honestly think that.

I think an elite QB would get it to the open receiver more times than not and I think we have one guy open at least every play... just my opinion.[/quote]

2 years ago ARod was the most sacked QB right?

Re: 49ers vs. Redskins Game Day Thread
 

[quote=over the mountain;856520]we just have to commit to the run. not that we will win but i think it gives us atleast a chance stay in games . . . cant believe how quickly we give up on the run.[/quote]

You know before the game I was listening to 980am's pre game show while I was in the gym... Chris Russell came on and said he had it on authority from one the "highest ranking Redskin officials" that the team was drooling over Helu's potential in the screen game. So Kevin Sheehan's response was like- "don't give away the game plan, Chris." to which Russell sort of stammered and had no answer.

And then we have 14 completions to a RB... Curious. I guess we had the lack of a run game planned all along, and released as much to the media before the game??? I dunno....

Re: 49ers vs. Redskins Game Day Thread
 

^ exactly like I said earlier Ben, romo, Arod, Cutler all have avg OL and they put up big numbers

Re: 49ers vs. Redskins Game Day Thread
 

Just a random thought, I really think moving Montgomery to guard was a bad idea. Glad to see him back at center again.

Re: 49ers vs. Redskins Game Day Thread
 

[quote=Ruhskins;856472]I wish we could get a coaching staff that does this. It seems that the past couple of years we have coaches that have a scheme and stick to that scheme regardless whether the players fit it or not.[/quote]

I'm actually thinking that our thought processes are ass backwards. I've argued as well as anyone that coach's need to develope players and need to utilize the talent they have on this team or rather make the scheme work around the talent on the team.

But maybe, just maybe, we are all wrong and it's more about keeping the coaching staff around long enough to get the personel on this team that fits the scheme. .... and consistancy, meaning keeping a coaching staff around longer then 2 yrs, getting a top notch QB and or developing a top notch QB and allowing him to develope, vs. switching QB's every few yrs for something greener in the next pastur that doesn't work out.

Re: 49ers vs. Redskins Game Day Thread
 

[quote=GMScud;856527]You know before the game I was listening to 980am's pre game show while I was in the gym... Chris Russell came on and said he had it on authority from one the "highest ranking Redskin officials" that the team was drooling over Helu's potential in the screen game. So Kevin Sheehan's response was like- "don't give away the game plan, Chris." to which Russell sort of stammered and had no answer.

And then we have 14 completions to a RB... Curious. I guess we had the lack of a run game planned all along, and released as much to the media before the game??? I dunno....[/quote]

yeah going to screens, dump offs and underneaths is pretty much an extension of the run game, it makes alot of sense if your O line is banged up or not getting a push.

i just cant believe how bad beck limits this offense. i dont think kyles scheme can be run without taking shots down field . .

in re to dalton, young etc . . .i dont think you get a qb just to get a qb. you have to get they right and perfect qb for your needs. it may take a few years for the stars to align.

you can date and fool around with runningbacks, etc but your married to a qb. coaches get fired or hoist the lombardi based off the qb they pick.

but next year, it seems shanny has to force is pick. we cant wait much longer. to bad, we tried to get bradford and rumored to have liked ponder before he got picked before us.

Re: 49ers vs. Redskins Game Day Thread
 

[quote=SBXVII;856534]I'm actually thinking that our thought processes are ass backwards. I've argued as well as anyone that coach's need to develope players and need to utilize the talent they have on this team or rather make the scheme work around the talent on the team.

But maybe, just maybe, we are all wrong and it's more about keeping the coaching staff around long enough to get the personel on this team that fits the scheme. .... and consistancy, meaning keeping a coaching staff around longer then 2 yrs, getting a top notch QB and or developing a top notch QB and allowing him to develope, vs. switching QB's every few yrs for something greener in the next pastur that doesn't work out.[/quote]

I'm fine with this if MS had started to rebuild the offense since day one instead of bringing a washed up McNabb last year.

Re: 49ers vs. Redskins Game Day Thread
 

[quote=Ruhskins;856539]I'm fine with this if MS had started to rebuild the offense since day one instead of bringing a washed up McNabb last year.[/quote]

Well, he has started the process this year, and we'd be fools to abort the project simply because he didn't implement it soon enough. Better late then never.

Re: 49ers vs. Redskins Game Day Thread
 

[quote=GMScud;856527]You know before the game I was listening to 980am's pre game show while I was in the gym... Chris Russell came on and said he had it on authority from one the "highest ranking Redskin officials" that the team was drooling over Helu's potential in the screen game. So Kevin Sheehan's response was like- "don't give away the game plan, Chris." to which Russell sort of stammered and had no answer.

And then we have 14 completions to a RB... Curious. I guess we had the lack of a run game planned all along, and released as much to the media before the game??? I dunno....[/quote]

If you listened to Shanny's press conference after the game, you'd find out exactly why they were dinking and dunking. It was the type of defense that the 49ers were running.

Re: 49ers vs. Redskins Game Day Thread
 

[quote=Ruhskins;856539]I'm fine with this if MS had started to rebuild the offense since day one instead of bringing a washed up McNabb last year.[/quote]

mcnabb was on pace to set the skins single season passing yard record and gave us big play capabilities . . . just wish he could have been more amenable to instruction . .

Re: 49ers vs. Redskins Game Day Thread
 

[quote=over the mountain;856543]mcnabb was on pace to set the skins single season passing yard record and gave us big play capabilities . . . just wish he could have been more amenable to instruction . .[/quote]

Yards don't win games. Scoring points does. McNabb was horrible on 3rd down conversion and killed drives on a regular with his inconsistency. The fact that a rookie is running the Vikings offense better than McDummy says everything you need to know.

Re: 49ers vs. Redskins Game Day Thread
 

[quote=NC_Skins;856544]Yards don't win games. Scoring points does. McNabb was horrible on 3rd down conversion and killed drives on a regular with his inconsistency. The fact that a rookie is running the Vikings offense better than McDummy says everything you need to know.[/quote]

Mcnabb was a waste. Threw more balls to the worms in fed ex than he did to wrs.

Re: 49ers vs. Redskins Game Day Thread
 

[quote=Ruhskins;856539]I'm fine with this if MS had started to rebuild the offense since day one instead of bringing a washed up McNabb last year.[/quote]

Well, some of us said "rebuild" and we who did were told this team couldn't afford to go rebuild.

Trust me I didn't want McNabb, didn't think he was going to work out, hated the idea that they signed him, but I started believing all the hoopla about MS being able to reinvent Elway at his old age and thought maybe McNabb would work out also. But we were duped. Clearly McNabb was the one with issue's as we have seen him being benched in Minni for not playing the reindeer games.

At this point I'm either ready to see Grossman put back in in hopes he makes better decisions or ready to see Jonathon Crompton. Crompton might be worth seeing if he can be salvaged. I mean if we are going to play like a bunch of rookies, especially at the QB spot we might as well put one in. I can atleast grasp that thought.

Re: 49ers vs. Redskins Game Day Thread
 

I'm just baffled that there are a ton of colleges out there that have football teams and only 32 NFL teams. I went checking and not all have QB's sitting on their PS so why can't this team look at any of the QB's that were not picked up and try them out?

I know they won't be able to step in next week and start, I'm not asking for that. What I'm wondering is if Grossman and Beck is not working out then what about Crompton and perhaps start looking into some of the Rookies not picked up. Perhaps they are crap, maybe they seem to take to this scheme.