Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

I agree with drafting the WR's at the time. They were the best available football players. But the TE pick was foolish. We should have taken DE Campbell.

This a typical Snyderatto draft. Offense offense offense. Snyderatto has never met a skill position player he did not want to get. This is the only reason i do not like Snyderatto as our GM. I do not dislike them, it is a diffrence in philosophy.
I prefer we draft Lineman. It is simple reasoning, there more people on this planet that are the size of a skill position player. There are less 6'6" 300 pound star athletes on this planet. So getting [B]talented and skilled linemen[/B] is more difficult because there are less of them in our population.

The Redskins built their dynasty of the 80's and early 90's on strong lines. Our lines were big and deep.
Our WR's on the other hand, other than 1st round pick Art Monk, were nobodys Charlie Brown, Alvin Garret, Ricky Sanders, Virgil Seay. WR's are a dime a dozen.

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

Yeah, while I'm a lil upset we didn't get a pass rusher one thing is certain. We have bodies on O. Guys that can get first downs and TD's in the redzone. Its been awhile, and that is exciting. But if we don't see a vast improvement on O, there will be a lot of unhappy skins fans.

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;443862]The more I think about the WR picks I start to think about Moss' hamstring injuries in NY that lead to him coming here for Coles. He had a bruised heel this year and that awful game that he pulled himself out of. The WR picks don't bode well for his long-term future here. ARE will be fine as he's more versatile is a solid slot or # 3 and can focus more on his return game.[/quote]

I don't think I'd go that far, Moss is a long-term 'Skin. His contract doesn't make it feasible to cut him until 2010, and even then it would only be wise if he totally sucked by then.

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

[quote=SmootSmack;443860]Landry[/quote]

Bam! Thanks. How could I forget that guy. But my only point is, it's not like we pull the offense overhaul thing every year. We're usually going for defenders. Crap, save Jason Campbell, when was the last time we put such an emphisis on offense so early in the draft

We'll be fine, fellas. Just fine.

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

[quote=wilsowilso;443841]Anyone who thinks they can predict with any confidence these young wr's translation or transition to the nfl is a joker.[/quote]
But we can hope.

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

[quote=12thMan;443868]Bam! Thanks. How could I forget that guy. But my only point is, it's not like we pull the offense overhaul thing every year. We're usually going for defenders. Crap, save Jason Campbell, when was the last time we put such an emphisis on offense so early in the draft

We'll be fine, fellas. Just fine.[/quote]

Even then though, Carlos Rogers was our first pick that year.

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

It seems like in picking two WR's the front office is hoping one pans out, which seems like they are not all that confident in thier drafting ability.

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

[quote=over the mountain;443851]im not disappointed with the FO for not picking O line, im disappointed their wasnt an Oline guy the skins thought was worth the pick if that makes sense. i guess i should be happy they didnt stretch for a guy just to fill a need and leave a higher rated potential impact wr on the board.

what O lineman can i look forward to seeing the skins draft in 3 and 4?

go skins![/quote]

There was such a run on OL already. Roy Scheuning from Oregon St. is the best guard left & Carl Nicks from Nebraska is the best tackle, but they probably won't be around by pick 96.

I'd like to see us go DL. Maryland's Dre Moore and Arkansas' Marcus Harrison are still on the board. Hopefully, one of them will stil be around by #96. The DE position was absolutely ravaged already. Is Chris Ellis from VT the best guy left?

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

[quote=Defensewins;443865]I agree with drafting the WR's at the time. They were the best available football players. But the TE pick was foolish. We should have taken DE Campbell.

This a typical Snyderatto draft. Offense offense offense. Snyderatto has never met a skill position player he did not want to get. This is the only reason i do not like Snyderatto as our GM. I do not dislike them, it is a diffrence in philosophy.
I prefer we draft Lineman. It is simple reasoning, there more people on this planet that are the size of a skill position player. There are less 6'6" 300 pound star athletes on this planet. So getting [B]talented and skilled linemen[/B] is more difficult because there are less of them in our population.

The Redskins built their dynasty of the 80's and early 90's on strong lines. Our lines were big and deep.
Our WR's on the other hand, other than 1st round pick Art Monk, were nobodys Charlie Brown, Alvin Garret, Ricky Sanders, Virgil Seay.[/quote]

You make a great point. No doubt we passed up a helluva player in Calais Campbell, but I'm okay with it. He may make us look stupid by passing him up, well see.

But isn't that what the draft is really all about? We'll see....

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

[quote=Schneed10;443867]I don't think I'd go that far, Moss is a long-term 'Skin. His contract doesn't make it feasible to cut him until 2010, and even then it would only be wise if he totally sucked by then.[/quote]
If 2010 is the year, it makes sense the FO is being really forward thinking. Young WRs often don't hit stride for a couple of years, by then Moss is 29-30 and slowing down. Or his injuries are more of a concern & the two WRs are insurance so we don't go into a game with 52 yr. old receivers on the field (McCardell).

The other thing is that all three picks are big targets and will help Campbell as he gets his accuracy together in the new offense. At first take I was definitely against WR first, I wanted to shore up the DL & CB, but depending on tomorrow this may be a very good draft.

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;443862]The more I think about the WR picks I start to think about Moss' hamstring injuries in NY that lead to him coming here for Coles. He had a bruised heel this year and that awful game that he pulled himself out of. The WR picks don't bode well for his long-term future here. ARE will be fine as he's more versatile is a solid slot or # 3 and can focus more on his return game.[/quote]
Moss is going to have pressure on him this year, or at least in the next couple years, for his job, so he's going to have to perform well.

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

Doh! I read the poll wrong... I thought it was asking for best pick of the draft, not biggest wtf. Retract my vote for Fred! He's the best pick, imo.

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

[quote=theJBexperience;443872]There was such a run on OL already. Roy Scheuning from Oregon St. is the best guard left & Carl Nicks from Nebraska is the best tackle, but they probably won't be around by pick 96.

I'd like to see us go DL. Maryland's Dre Moore and Arkansas' Marcus Harrison are still on the board. Hopefully, one of them will stil be around by #96. The DE position was absolutely ravaged already. Is Chris Ellis from VT the best guy left?[/quote]
I'd be happy with any one of the DTs or OL mentioned if we can get them with our Comp Pick.

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

[quote=12thMan;443873]You make a great point. No doubt we passed up a helluva player in Calais Campbell, but I'm okay with it. He may make us look stupid by passing him up, well see.

But isn't that what the draft is really all about? We'll see....[/quote]
Our FO may also look like geniuses if he's a bust

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

There are still some talented guys in the secondary left: CB Justin King from Penn State, CB Charles Godfrey whom we were interested in, and safeties: Reggie Smith from Oklahoma, DaJuan Morgan from NC State, and Thomas DeCoud from Cali. From a value standpoint, the secondary prospects are looking pretty good for our first pick tomorrow.

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

[QUOTE=12thMan;443873]You make a great point. No doubt we passed up a helluva player in Calais Campbell, but I'm okay with it. He may make us look stupid by passing him up, well see.

But isn't that what the draft is really all about? We'll see....[/QUOTE]

I just wish the Redskins (Snyderatto) would look at our Draft History a little more. We have not taken a lineman high (1st round) in the draft since 2000 when we took Samuels. We have not taken a defensive lineman high in the draft since 1997 when we took Kennard Lang. There is a reason our lines are old and thin. We have done nothing but draft skill position players high in the draft for the last 8 years. How about changing it up?

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

Where is the "All of the Above" option for the poll?

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

I have to admit I've calmed down from the hysteria of the selections. I suppose you could make the argument that if Chris Cooley were to go down to injury, we don't have anybody behind him who poses any threat at the tight end position. I've also been convinced that having two dangerous threats like that poses extra problems for defenses. So overall, I'm shocked that they used the pick there, but if it helps us score more points, then come September nobody will be complaining.

The thought actually crossed my mind when Malcolm Kelly was still on the board before our final 2nd round pick that they might take yet another wide receiver because to me, we've seen all that we're going to see from Moss and Randle El as receiving threats. And they are not enough.

So I'm done bitching. I like the selections. But the O-line and Reed Doughty still make me nervous.

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

[quote=ChuckPrez;443881]Where is the "All of the Above" option for the poll?[/quote]
Or a "Wait until the Draft is over before we slit our wrists and jump off a bridge" option

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

[quote=theJBexperience;443872]There was such a run on OL already. Roy Scheuning from Oregon St. is the best guard left & Carl Nicks from Nebraska is the best tackle, but they probably won't be around by pick 96.

I'd like to see us go DL. Maryland's Dre Moore and Arkansas' Marcus Harrison are still on the board. Hopefully, one of them will stil be around by #96. The DE position was absolutely ravaged already. Is Chris Ellis from VT the best guy left?[/quote]


How about Eric Young the guard from Tennessee? Before his injury he was considered one of the top guards in the draft. Here is his bio:

[url=http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/players/draft/431509]2008 Draft - Eric Young | NFL Football at CBSSports.com[/url]

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

I am surprised there is no thread that has the details of this trade we pulled off. Some of us were working and don't have all the details...I came here first to get all the answers, and so far I don't have many. (unless of course I want to read through the 50 pages of this thread...ain't gonna happen)

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

The best remaining are:

[B]O-Line[/B]
OT Carl Nicks
OT Anthony Collins
OG Roy Schuening
OG Eric Young
C Steven Justice

[B]D-line[/B]
DT Marcus Harrison
DT Dre Moore
DE Cliff Avril
DE Chris Ellis

[B]LB[/B]
MLB Dan Connor
MLB Tavares Gooden
OLB Erin Henderson
OLB Xavier Adibi
OLB Bruce Davis

[B]CB[/B]
CB Justin King
CB Charles Godfrey
CB Reggie Smith

Am I missing any? I'd be happy if we drafted any of those guys.

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

[quote=Beemnseven;443882]The thought actually crossed my mind when Malcolm Kelly was still on the board before our final 2nd round pick that they might take him because to me, we've seen all that we're going to see from Moss and Randle El as receiving threats. And they are not enough.

So I'm done bitching. I like the selections. But the O-line and Reed Doughty still make me nervous.[/quote]
I still have my laptop & TV in "unbroken" condition too. LOL.

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

Holmgren (Zorn's mentor) used two TEs plenty as a head coach. Here's an example of him using it in Green Bay

[YT]8xqV4IEJX1I[/YT]

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

[QUOTE=jsarno;443885]I am surprised there is no thread that has the details of this trade we pulled off. Some of us were working and don't have all the details...I came here first to get all the answers, and so far I don't have many. (unless of course I want to read through the 50 pages of this thread...ain't gonna happen)[/QUOTE]

We traded our 1st, 3rd and 5th to ATL for their 34th and 48th picks in the 2nd and their 4th.

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

[quote=Bill B;443884]How about Eric Young the guard from Tennessee? Before his injury he was considered one of the top guards in the draft. Here is his bio:

[URL="http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/players/draft/431509"]2008 Draft - Eric Young | NFL Football at CBSSports.com[/URL][/quote]

I considered him. His stock has really plummeted. He might be around in the 4th or 5th, but he's a decent player. I wouldn't mind that pick. The Skins may have not drafted OL early because of the rush on OL or because of Buge's ability to work wonders and coach guys up. Given his track record, I'm not as concerned about an OL not being taken as I am DL.

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

WTF happened while I was gone? I sware if the next three picks aren't grunt players I'm going to switch to the Ravens. Alright maybe not, but I think we now know who was calling the shots when Gibbs was around, and it's obviously wasn't Cerrato.

They lost out on Mike Pollack the C from Arizona State, they'll probably lose out on EJ Henderson. And with those extra picks they could have added a fan favorite like Owen Schmitt. I'll bet Josh Johnson is the 3-20 pick, then they'll take Marcus Monk.

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

This is what I think happened with the TE...
The Skins got the first WR because of value...and because Merling was gone.
Then the Skins saw great value with the TE and figured....hey...a TE is like another WR and this guy is great....better grab him....Campbell will be around...
Then Campbell disappeared just like Merling and the Skins went value for a WR again...they kinda had too in a way...

Bottom line...their mistake was not being able to pass over a great value TE in an effort to shore up a major need....they were thinking they could squeeze a couple more pick out before DL disappeared...they were wrong and got greedy....now we are overstaffed on O and have no potential starters on Dline.....again.

Don't get me wrong...I like 2 good WR's...but we dont need another TE....that will be on the bench at least 75% of the time..heck...the second WR will be in the same situation...
A Dline pick would have potentially been starting 75% of the time....
That is my issue...
If you lock yourself into value only....your draft is graded well but you haven't addressed your key needs.

How many predraft folks were saying the skins needed 2 WR and a TE?
Most were saying 1 WR....the rest was line and defense.

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;443888]Holmgren (Zorn's mentor) used two TEs plenty as a head coach. Here's an example of him using it in Green Bay.[/QUOTE]

If we have that kind of success from Cooley and Davis, then it was a brilliant pick.

Jason Campbell will never have the excuse that he never had anything to work with here.

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

[QUOTE=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;443889]We traded our 1st, 3rd and 5th to ATL for their 34th and 48th picks in the 2nd and their 4th.[/QUOTE]

That's a good deal for us considering we seemed to have gotten who we were targeting anyway.
Does anyone know why we selected 2 wr's? Or was this just a case of best player available at the time (kelly)?

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

[quote=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;443886]The best remaining are:

[B]O-Line[/B]
OT Carl Nicks
OT Anthony Collins
OG Roy Schuening
OG Eric Young
C Steven Justice

[B]D-line[/B]
DT Marcus Harrison
DT Dre Moore
DE Cliff Avril
DE Chris Ellis

[B]LB[/B]
MLB Dan Connor
MLB Tavares Gooden
OLB Erin Henderson
OLB Xavier Adibi
OLB Bruce Davis

[B]CB[/B]
CB Justin King
CB Charles Godfrey
CB Reggie Smith

Am I missing any? I'd be happy if we drafted any of those guys.[/quote]
Agreed. Any two of these guys would be solid as our 3rd & 4th rd picks and fill needs. Two guys in the late rounds could also help, Radovich, G, USC and the DE kid from Hampton, but he'll probably be gone

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

I like the "take the best player available" approach that Cerrato seems to be employing. After watching our poodle offense last year struggle to score 20 points--I'm thinking that if one of these guys helps us score another fg or td a game-then we'll win 2 more games a year.

This league is slanted to scoring points and the Skins seem to struggle to do that the last few years. While our offense may have been efficient at times; I felt it struggled to produce easy scores (runs/passes > 40 yards) and stalled a bit too often in the redzone. I can see these picks helping with both--opening up Portis/Moss/ARE for bigger plays while addressing our redzone failings with some "bigs" at receiver...

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

[QUOTE=skinsnut;443892]This is what I think happened with the TE...
The Skins got the first WR because of value...and because Merling was gone.
Then the Skins saw great value with the TE and figured....hey...a TE is like another WR and this guy is great....better grab him....Campbell will be around...
Then Campbell disappeared just like Merling and the Skins went value for a WR again...they kinda had too in a way...

Bottom line...their mistake was not being able to pass over a great value TE in an effort to shore up a major need....they were thinking they could squeeze a couple more pick out before DL disappeared...they were wrong and got greedy....now we are overstaffed on O and have no potential starters on Dline.....again.

Don't get me wrong...I like 2 good WR's...but we dont need another TE....that will be on the bench at least 75% of the time..heck...the second WR will be in the same situation...
A Dline pick would have potentially been starting 75% of the time....
That is my issue...
If you lock yourself into value only....your draft is graded well but you haven't addressed your key needs.

How many predraft folks were saying the skins needed 2 WR and a TE?
Most were saying 1 WR....the rest was line and defense.[/QUOTE]

Maybe they all understood that 1.) Chris Cooley needed a capable backup - which we don't currently have; and 2.) A second receiving tight end is vital for Zorn's offense to work.

I highly suggest checking out the youtube clip SmootSmack posted as an example of how double TE sets can confuse opposing defenses.

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

I'm still trying to figure out this TE we drafted...WHY? We could have had Campbell right? Or did I miss something??

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

[quote=Defensewins;443865]I agree with drafting the WR's at the time. They were the best available football players. But the TE pick was foolish. We should have taken DE Campbell.

This a typical Snyderatto draft. Offense offense offense. Snyderatto has never met a skill position player he did not want to get. This is the only reason i do not like Snyderatto as our GM. I do not dislike them, it is a diffrence in philosophy.
I prefer we draft Lineman. It is simple reasoning, there more people on this planet that are the size of a skill position player. There are less 6'6" 300 pound star athletes on this planet. So getting [B]talented and skilled linemen[/B] is more difficult because there are less of them in our population.

The Redskins built their dynasty of the 80's and early 90's on strong lines. Our lines were big and deep.
Our WR's on the other hand, other than 1st round pick Art Monk, were nobodys Charlie Brown, Alvin Garret, Ricky Sanders, Virgil Seay. WR's are a dime a dozen.[/quote]


Before you run your mouth, get your damned facts straight, ignorant.

[B]2007
[/B]1. LaRon Landry, S, LSU
5. Dallas Sartz, LB, USC
6. H.B. Blades, LB, Pittsburgh
6. Jordan Palmer, QB, UTEP
7. Tyler Ecker, TE, Michigan

[B]2006[/B]
2. Roger McIntosh, OLB, Miami - 35th overall
5. Anthony Montgomery, DT, Minnesota - 153rd overall
6. Reed Doughty, S, North Colorado - 173rd overall
6. Kedric Golston, DT, Georgia - 196th overall
7. Kili Lefotu, OG, Arizona - 230th overall
7. Kevin Simon, ILB, Tennessee - 250th overall


[B]2005[/B]
1. Carlos Rogers, CB, Auburn (9th overall)
1. Jason Campbell, QB, Auburn (25th overall)
4. Manuel White, FB, UCLA (120th overall)
5. Robert McCune, ILB, Louisville (154th overall)
6. Jared Newberry, OLB, Stanford (183rd overall)
7. Nehemiah Broughton, FB, The Citadel (222nd overall)


[B]2004[/B]
1. Sean Taylor, S, Miami - 5th overall
3. Chris Cooley, TE, Utah State - 81st overall
5. Mark Wilson, OT, California - 151st overall
6. Jim Molinaro, OT, Notre Dame - 180th overall



11 Defensive players in 4 years.
3 Offensive Linemen
6 Skill Players

Offense Offense Offense?

11 D
9 O

And when is the last time we drafted a WR in the first round?01 and 03. You can see a distinction in Snyderatto's evolution. He let Spurrier dictate who he wanted, and it bit him in the ass, with us as fans. Two WR's is not that bad of a pick. Everyone we have on D isn't exactally retiring. We need a cb, we need a ss, and line help. I understand to an extent where they are coming from. At those late picks, you cannot pass up a first rounder thats slipped THAT far. I know the rest of the draft is going to be OL and defense.

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

[quote=jsarno;443896]That's a good deal for us considering we seemed to have gotten who we were targeting anyway.
Does anyone know why we selected 2 wr's? Or was this just a case of best player available at the time (kelly)?[/quote]

It was, it was an excellent trade, but the results were horrible. Being a slave to the BPA no matter what is a recipie for failure. Honestly I'm mad at myself for putting so much trust into Cerrato and Snyder.

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

[QUOTE=Schneed10;443815]I'm in love with all three of these picks.

First off, it shows that our coaches and GM aren't smoking crack and drinking the Anthony Mix Kool Aid. They recognize that we need serious weapons. They're right.

Santana Moss, as good as he is, doesn't score enough TDs. Same with ARE. Down in the red zone these guys disappear. Nevermind the fact that Moss is getting older and that without these WRs, James Thrash or Anthony Mix would be our #3 WR (horrible).

Fred Davis gives us a second TE weapon, another big body for making yards after the catch.

We got serious value out of our picks. You guys are crazy.[/QUOTE]


I totally agree. My Dad and I were like "Hel frickin yeah...we got some ballers."

I love having all of these offensive weapons. Our offense has always stalled at the worst times. I will not rush to jusdge the FO until I see the rest of the picks.

Now if they go draft two RB's and another wide out, I'll be pissed.

I could see them working another trade tomorrow. Possibly a player for another 3rd rounder.

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

[quote=jsarno;443902]I'm still trying to figure out this TE we drafted...WHY? We could have had Campbell right? Or did I miss something??[/quote]
Don't forget Calais Campbell only benched 13 reps @ 225 in the combine and ran poorly. His ex-DL coach is also on staff, so same as us not getting Hackett, I'm going to trust an ex-coach of a player knowing something if the guy is not brought in and he would've filled a need.

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

[QUOTE=NYCSkin;443900]I like the "take the best player available" approach that Cerrato seems to be employing. [B]After watching our poodle offense last year struggle to score 20 points--I'm thinking that if one of these guys helps us score another fg or td a game-then we'll win 2 more games a year.[/B]
This league is slanted to scoring points and the Skins seem to struggle to do that the last few years. While our offense may have been efficient at times; I felt it struggled to produce easy scores (runs/passes > 40 yards) and stalled a bit too often in the redzone. I can see these picks helping with both--opening up Portis/Moss/ARE for bigger plays while addressing our redzone failings with some "bigs" at receiver...[/QUOTE]

Bingo. This team hasn't exactly been lighting up the scoreboard over the past few seasons. As you said, only here and there has this offense looked somewhat efficient.

Plus, it's a passing league now. Look at the Colts last year: they have Harrison, Wayne, and Dallas Clark, and they take Anthony Gonzales with their first pick.

We need more options, we need to score more touchdowns, and Moss and Randle El by themselves just don't cut it.

[B]For what it's worth, Mel Kiper just listed Washington as a Day One "Winner".[/B]

Re: The official 2008 draft discussion thread
 

great video of the two TE sets run in green bay.

I think running with two TEs is awesome, and great for Madden.

I gotta believe Zorn either 1) Doesnt like ARE and MOSS as anything more than slot receivers or 2) ARE is fine in the slot, Moss is been hurt and getting older...by the time these two develop we'l need receivers anyways.