Re: Disgusted with Bonds?
 

How can I get upset at a man who shrank his weenie just stroke a stick better? He's the dumbass who is and will pay for his mistakes in more ways than one.

Re: Disgusted with Bonds?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;301047]But it wasn't tested for right? And I can't imagine he's the only player to use steroids. And how is what he did necessarily worse than scuffing a ball, or even stealing signs? If someone like Gaylord Perry can be in the HOF, then so can Bonds.[/quote]

Everybody does it, so it's ok??? Good call

Besides, look a the fine BIG head he got out of the deal.
I heard on a sports talk show the other day that Hank Aaron apparently attends many baseball events, as a guest, for the good of baseball. They added, that if Bad Barry breaks his record, he will NOT be in attendance. "he will be fishing".

Re: Disgusted with Bonds?
 

[QUOTE=dmek25;301080]Bonds isn't the problem, baseball is. they knew what was going on, but had no language written into the union contract that made steroids testable. the whole long ball thing with McGuire and Sosa made baseball sexy again, and the owners were loving it. baseball, with a screwed up drug policy, and no salary cap, is a messed up sport[/QUOTE]

Exactly the point I was trying to make. The problem is baseball turning a blind eye to the steroid problem until it was too late. Exacerbating the problem, as I said earlier, is the fact that Bonds is generally considered an ass. If he was some fun-loving, jovial guy I'm sure most people would look at this differently.

Re: Disgusted with Bonds?
 

I agree with SmootSmack that this is compliacted. While I do think it is wrong that Bonds is now going to break this record chiefly because he took steroids there is a lot of me that thinks that a huge amount of players were doing this and to single out Bonds just because of who he is and what he is doing is unfair. Considering that a large amount of players were doing this one could argue that to compete a player HAD to do this. Now it is complicated. I blame the players in general for creating the atmosphere where streoid use was not only acceptable but almost requires. I blame MLB for doing nothing to stop it. Performance enhancement has been in baseball for decades but I think it is time they start getting rid of all this legacy crap and move into the 21st century when it comes to how to operate the sport.

One thing everyone needs to remember is that baseball is FAR FAR FAR different in the way it is run than any other sport. Due to that matter in which it was organized and started it is much more loosely managed from a central source(MLB). It is almost like all the teams are totaly separate and operate alone. This means that MLB itself is very weakened. This is the way it has always been. I think Selig is pathetic but when was the last time MLB had a perceived good commisioner? Yeah it has been decades because the owners work to keep the commissioner relatively weak compared to other commisioners. It is time they started operating this like one business instead of 32 separate ones. Then issues like steroids can get weeded out by a strong central fiugure without fear of being fired.

Re: Disgusted with Bonds?
 

A lot of people are indicting Barry Bonds in the court of public opinion for essentially cheating; and they're doing this with the idea in mind of protecting the integrity of baseball.

But by going after Bonds these people are really saying that the sport in general has no more integrity, because if you go after Bonds then you have to go after McGwire, Sosa (corked bats), Gaylord Perry, Ken Caminiti, Canseco, and any pitcher who's ever used sandpaper or otherwise doctored a ball. You can't pick and choose who you want to eject from the hall because they're "going after a hallowed record." That makes no sense and is prejudiced against someone you perceive to be an asshole.

If you go after Bonds, you have to go after every cheater and weed them all out of the HOF voting process. You have to wipe Bonds' 73, McGwire's 70, and Sosa's 66 HRs from the books and give the record back to Maris. And then once you're done, are you even sure you've gotten every cheater? How do you determine for sure who was a cheater? Based on your "opinion"?

You go after Bonds alone, then you've ruined the integrity of the game just as bad as steroids themselves has. You send the message that it's OK to cheat, just don't be an asshole like Barry Bonds and don't break Aaron's record, and you're cool in my book.

Re: Disgusted with Bonds?
 

[QUOTE=Schneed10;301090]A lot of people are indicting Barry Bonds in the court of public opinion for essentially cheating; and they're doing this with the idea in mind of protecting the integrity of baseball.

But by going after Bonds these people are really saying that the sport in general has no more integrity, because if you go after Bonds then you have to go after McGwire, Sosa (corked bats), Gaylord Perry, Ken Caminiti, Canseco, and any pitcher who's ever used sandpaper or otherwise doctored a ball. You can't pick and choose who you want to eject from the hall because they're "going after a hallowed record." That makes no sense and is prejudiced against someone you perceive to be an asshole.

If you go after Bonds, you have to go after every cheater and weed them all out of the HOF voting process. You have to wipe Bonds' 73, McGwire's 70, and Sosa's 66 HRs from the books and give the record back to Maris. And then once you're done, are you even sure you've gotten every cheater? How do you determine for sure who was a cheater? Based on your "opinion"?

You go after Bonds alone, then you've ruined the integrity of the game just as bad as steroids themselves has. You send the message that it's OK to cheat, just don't be an asshole like Barry Bonds and don't break Aaron's record, and you're cool in my book.[/QUOTE]


Brilliant.

Re: Disgusted with Bonds?
 

This issue is being way over complicated. It's not hard at all. It's really quite simple.
One of the cornerstones of the game that earned the most prestigous record in all of baseball honestly (and has stood for 30 years +-) is about to lose it. He will lose it to a man who can not make the same claim. He will not have earned it honestly..........simple. Q. will baseball allow this to happen and further taint the game??? A. Of course they will.
In NO way does bonds deserve the record

Re: Disgusted with Bonds?
 

[QUOTE=Schneed10;301090]...just don't be an asshole like Barry Bonds...[/QUOTE]

I think that's the biggest problem: most people think Bonds is an asshole (including me). He cannot handle the media very well. If he were a genuine nice guy, then I think there would be less criticism.

Re: Disgusted with Bonds?
 

[QUOTE=Hog1;301097]This issue is being way over complicated. It's not hard at all. It's really quite simple.
One of the cornerstones of the game that earned the most prestigous record in all of baseball honestly (and has stood for 30 years +-) is about to lose it. He will lose it to a man who can not make the same claim. He will not have earned it honestly..........simple. Q. will baseball allow this to happen and further taint the game??? A. Of course they will.
In NO way does bonds deserve the record[/QUOTE]

What are they supposed to do then? Kick him out of the game because they think he cheated? Remeber at this point while it is pretty obvious to everyone he cheated it is still all just supposition. If they kick him out then what do they do from there? Kick everyone else out that they "think" cheated. Then wipe out all the records. I think you are way OVERsimplyfing the soultion. Maybe the issue is simple to you but the soultion certainly isn't. Otherwise there'd have been one by now.

Re: Disgusted with Bonds?
 

The legal Maxim "Innocent until proven guilty" pertains to criminal proceedings. It has no place here.
barry and his friends are guilty. Black ball their asses out and save baseball, AND an honest man's legacy. Let the sharks in the business figure out how to accomplish it.
Hmmmm, I wonder what Tanya Harding and her friends are doing?

Re: Disgusted with Bonds?
 

[QUOTE=Hog1;301110]The legal Maxim "Innocent until proven guilty" pertains to criminal proceedings. It has no place here.
barry and his friends are guilty. Black ball their asses out and save baseball, AND an honest man's legacy. Let the sharks in the business figure out how to accomplish it.
Hmmmm, I wonder what Tanya Harding and her friends are doing?[/QUOTE]

I would agree with you if "barry and his friends" weren't half of the league's players. Kicking a few cheating people out of any sport helps save the integrity but when the problem is far beyond a few then you are talking about totally destroying the game entirely. I am not excusing anyone's actions. I am simply trying to get you to realize the reality of the situation. There is no way they can simply kick one guy out without confronting the real notion that the problem was considerably widespread and would have to do something similar to all cheaters. Maybe that is the way to go but they need to be ready for some long and lean years in baseball if they start really cleaning the game up that way. I would think they would rather simply let the testing wash those guys out and save the game that way. That solution presents issues like Bonds breaking the record but over all it is better than basically flushing decades records and players stats down the drain and saying to everyone "Our game was a farce for years".

Re: Disgusted with Bonds?
 

If no one can prove Bonds took roids then there is nothing that can be done. Its that simple.

Re: Disgusted with Bonds?
 

[quote=FRPLG;301118]I would agree with you if "barry and his friends" weren't half of the league's players. Kicking a few cheating people out of any sport helps save the integrity but when the problem is far beyond a few then you are talking about totally destroying the game entirely. I am not excusing anyone's actions. I am simply trying to get you to realize the reality of the situation. There is no way they can simply kick one guy out without confronting the real notion that the problem was considerably widespread and would have to do something similar to all cheaters. Maybe that is the way to go but they need to be ready for some long and lean years in baseball if they start really cleaning the game up that way. I would think they would rather simply let the testing wash those guys out and save the game that way. That solution presents issues like Bonds breaking the record but over all it is better than basically flushing decades records and players stats down the drain and saying to everyone "Our game was a farce for years".[/quote]

Agreed 1000%.

Hog1, you are WAY oversimplifying. I mean if you don't care at all about being fair and evenhanded, then yeah I guess you can strip Barry Bonds of all his records and achievements. Of course then you'd be telling baseball players that it's OK if you use steroids to:

- Falsely boost your production to make a lot more money
- Help your team win by using banned substances
- Rack up stats that could get you into the HOF
- And this is all OK as long as you don't break Hank Aaron's record

It makes no sense. You take one guy down, you have to take them all down.

Now if we get PROOF that Bonds cheated, rather than just supposition, then yeah, Baseball has every right to take Bonds out of the record books. But right now the best we have is supposition (albeit strong supposition, but it's supposition nonetheless) by some reporters that Barry took steroids from his trainer. If you're going to go after someone just because you suspect them, don't you have to go after a lot of other guys that are suspect? Starts to sound a lot like the Salem Witch Hunt, going after people because you are suspicious.

Re: Disgusted with Bonds?
 

[quote=firstdown;301122]If no one can prove Bonds took roids then there is nothing that can be done. Its that simple.[/quote]

Gotta love it when I type paragraphs and paragraphs, and then someone comes along and posts a one-sentence post that carries more weight and relevance than I ever could. Well said, firstdown. That is the bottom line, PROOF.

Re: Disgusted with Bonds?
 

first, let me say i do not like Barry Bonds. but, he was the last of the great drug abusers from the late 90's and early 2000's that is still around. so he takes the all of the frustration that the public would really like to lay on the McGuire's and the Sosa's of mlb, that are now retired