Re: Four Years Later: Are We Better Off?
 

Understand that I'm not saying are we better than you expected them to be than when Gibbs returned. I'm saying is the leadership, roster, and culture on the franchise in better shape now and in better position to win consistently than it was four years ago.

Re: Four Years Later: Are We Better Off?
 

we are better off for sure compared to the previous year before gibbs came back but we still need frontline players that can stay healthy for a season on offense/defense..

stability and continuity ...we just need more of it..

Re: Four Years Later: Are We Better Off?
 

Are the Skins really better off? I don't see it.

Yes, 2 playoff appearances in 4 years vs. 1 between 1993 and 2004 is great and all. However, those 2 playoff appearances came about because this team went out and had huge winning streaks. Great teams do not have to run off 4 or 5 straight to make the playoffs. Great teams do not need their backs against the wall to start executing. This Redskins team does.

The pieces are there to build a great team, a team that will consistently make the playoffs. However, until the holes are filled, this will be an 8-8 team that will be a 6th seed at best.

With that said, I'm looking forward to next year. To see if this team can execute without the emotion that they lived off of in December 2007. To see if the weaknesses are strengthen, and the key personnel are kept and improve.

Re: Four Years Later: Are We Better Off?
 

Hard to say that we're not better off now considering the downward spiral we were in from the infamous Spurrier era.

Re: Four Years Later: Are We Better Off?
 

[quote=BDBohnzie;403492]Are the Skins really better off? I don't see it.

Yes, 2 playoff appearances in 4 years vs. 1 between 1993 and 2004 is great and all. [B]However, those 2 playoff appearances came about because this team went out and had huge winning streaks. Great teams do not have to run off 4 or 5 straight to make the playoffs. Great teams do not need their backs against the wall to start executing. This Redskins team does.[/B]

The pieces are there to build a great team, a team that will consistently make the playoffs. However, until the holes are filled, this will be an 8-8 team that will be a 6th seed at best.

With that said, I'm looking forward to next year. To see if this team can execute without the emotion that they lived off of in December 2007. To see if the weaknesses are strengthen, and the key personnel are kept and improve.[/quote]

I've never understood that view.

Who cares how it happens, as long as it happens?

As the saying goes it's not how you start but how you finish. Gibbs is famous for having teams that finish strong. I'm not sure why that is something that should be looked down upon.

Re: Four Years Later: Are We Better Off?
 

We're better off, but not where we need to be. We need to win the division so we can have playoff game or two at home. Playing at Seattle is very, very tough. We need to take down the Cowboys and Giants next year and let the Seahawks travel across the country in the playoffs to play at FedEx.

Re: Four Years Later: Are We Better Off?
 

before joe gibbs came we were coming off 2 losing seasons with spurrier...now we are coming off a playoff year. we are better off for sure. he has stabilized the organization if nothing else

Re: Four Years Later: Are We Better Off?
 

[QUOTE=Twilbert07;403500]We're better off, but not where we need to be. We need to win the division so we can have playoff game or two at home. Playing at Seattle is very, very tough. We need to take down the Cowboys and Giants next year and let the Seahawks travel across the country in the playoffs to play at FedEx.[/QUOTE]

Well put. I'll send you positive reputation points once I'm allowed to do so again

Re: Four Years Later: Are We Better Off?
 

To me, roster means nothing. look at the superbowl teams NE fielded. No really big names, but just players. We have lived off the hype of the roster for 10 years, and really nothing to show for it. I do think having Campbell is one of the bright spots. Cooley, Landry, and Rocky - other than that who knows. I can't put Moss in that catagory because you just dont know. He had one stellar year, and average for the rest. I dont think we are any better than we were 4 years ago. records speak of that.

Re: Four Years Later: Are We Better Off?
 

[QUOTE=irish;403447]I gotta vote with Tripp because this is a vote on the team and not Gibbs (as the heading implies). I think this team is spinning its wheels and doesnt get better and doesnt really get worse. I dont see the Skins being any better next year than this year. It will be an 8-8 or 9-7 team again.

Sure this team has made the playoffs but in reality this team has won nothing since Gibbs returned and I'm sure had we taken a poll 4 years ago today predicting the next 4 years and I predicted 2 playoff appearances but no playoff wins I would have been skewered. Unfortunately that has been what happened. It always looks like this team is getting better but they never really do.[/QUOTE]

Are you serious? You honestly can say with a straight face that this team is no better than it was in 2003? If so, someone is going to have to send you tapes of some of those games.

Re: Four Years Later: Are We Better Off?
 

[QUOTE=irish;403447]Sure this team has made the playoffs but in reality this team has won nothing since Gibbs returned and I'm sure had we taken a poll 4 years ago today predicting the next 4 years and I predicted 2 playoff appearances but no playoff wins I would have been skewered. Unfortunately that has been what happened. [B]It always looks like this team is getting better but they never really do[/B].[/QUOTE]

I disagree. After the final game of the Spurrier regime, and Spurrier's resignation (remember, he quit on the Redskins, not vice versa. In fact, as I recall, Snyder tried to convince him to stay), this team did not look like it was getting better and, in fact, I would say it was looking into the future with despair.

Who could we get to coach? How would restore respectability? How could we avoid being consistent cellar-dwellers given the state of our cap and the apparent age of our roster?

I don't know how you felt at the time, but I felt pretty hopeless.

Gibbs brought immediate credibility and immediate hope. Unfortunately, the hope was overblown but, again IMO, the credibility was not. Four years of continuity in management and message has made a difference. Read the players post season comments. This is a team that expects to win AND has shown the capability to do so. Compare these to the 2003/2004 pre-Gibbs offseason.

Before you can be consistent, you may have to be sporadic. Right now, over four years we have had two losers and two winners. If we can put another winning season together next year (which I anticipate - not a perfect season, but a winning one), three of four seasons will be winners and the culture of consistent winning can be re-established.

I think the 2003/2004 offseason was the pits and the years of mismanagement and infighting had come home to roost. Again, Gibbs has changed the way the team and, importantly, its non-player employees look at the time.

Does it have flaws, of course. Are we on a downward spiral? No. Can we legitimately hope to win even if our talent level is not top-notch, or the injury bug strikes? Yup.

More importantly, do the players believe they can win even if our talent level is not top-notch, or the injury bug strikes? Again, I think that this season gives that a resounding yes.

Further, unlike the euphoria of post-2005, when the team thought all it had to do was show up to win, this team seems to realize that it takes a team working hard ALL the time to win.

The culture of winning, so thoroughly destroyed by Spurrier/Cerrato/Snyder troika, is returning and coming to fruition under Gibbs.

This team will play hard for Gibbs and, in doing so, will win for him.

Re: Four Years Later: Are We Better Off?
 

[QUOTE=#56fanatic;403513]To me, roster means nothing. look at the superbowl teams NE fielded. No really big names, but just players. We have lived off the hype of the roster for 10 years, and really nothing to show for it. I do think having Campbell is one of the bright spots. Cooley, Landry, and Rocky - other than that who knows. I can't put Moss in that catagory because you just dont know. He had one stellar year, and average for the rest. I dont think we are any better than we were 4 years ago. records speak of that.[/QUOTE]

what records are you looking at?

Re: Four Years Later: Are We Better Off?
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;403498]As the saying goes it's not how you start but how you finish. Gibbs is famous for having teams that finish strong. I'm not sure why that is something that should be looked down upon.[/QUOTE]
I'm not looking down upon finishing strong, I'm looking down upon the fact that it takes a strong finish to make something out of nothing. I think it's great that the Skins finished strong in 05 and 07 and made the playoffs, but the simple fact is losing streaks both years put them into position to win or die. The "better" teams do not have 3 or 5 game losing streaks.

Gibbs 1.0 built a great team. The Skins were consistently winning 10+ games a year, and making the playoffs. Under Gibbs now, the team doesn't have that consistency. This isn't to implying anything about Gibbs, it's just stating the obvious. Being better off means getting better from year to year. This team since '04 has been a roller coaster. The Skins are not worse off than 4 years ago because they are finally starting to build towards the future. However, they are not better off either because year in and year out, there are personnel and coaching issues. And while all teams have it to some extent, not to the extent these Skins have had them. It seems that the Skins are grinding their gears, which is why I voted for The Tripp Republic response in the voting.

I think if you ask the question next year "Five Years Later: Are We Better Off?", it will be a profound yes. I have faith in the staff to make the necessary adjustments and continue building this team into a consistent winner. And the gears they are grinding this year will be in the right gear going forward. Here's to a good to better '08 and to the start of a Redskins dynasty.

Re: Four Years Later: Are We Better Off?
 

[QUOTE=#56fanatic;403513]To me, roster means nothing. look at the superbowl teams NE fielded. No really big names, but just players. We have lived off the hype of the roster for 10 years, and really nothing to show for it. I do think having Campbell is one of the bright spots. Cooley, Landry, and Rocky - other than that who knows. I can't put Moss in that catagory because you just dont know. He had one stellar year, and average for the rest. I dont think we are any better than we were 4 years ago. records speak of that.[/QUOTE]

You mean big-names like Brady, Randy Moss, Richard Seymour, Teddy Bruschi, Mike Vrabel, Roosevelt Colvin, Adalius Thomas, Vince Wilfork, Ty Warren, and Asante Samuel? Many of those guys were free agents BTW.

As for our record, it was 5-11 in 2003 and 9-7 this year. Almost doubling your wins is pretty decent IMO, but maybe that is just me.

Re: Four Years Later: Are We Better Off?
 

[QUOTE=Sheriff Gonna Getcha;403534]You mean big-names like Brady, Randy Moss, Richard Seymour, Teddy Bruschi, Mike Vrabel, Roosevelt Colvin, Adalius Thomas, Vince Wilfork, Ty Warren, and Asante Samuel? Many of those guys were free agents BTW.

As for our record, it was 5-11 in 2003 and 9-7 this year. Almost doubling your wins is pretty decent IMO, but maybe that is just me.[/QUOTE]

To play devil's advocate though I can see where people might say but we went from 6-10 to 5-11 to 10-6 to 9-7.

However, I think the first year was a wash. And the ensuing years started to forming the future of this team by selecting guys like Rogers, Golston, Montgomery, Cooley, Landry, Campbell, etc.; keeping core guys like Cooley; establishing a new (but proven in the league) offense; and more than anything establishing a culture of unity and confidence.

I don't deal with them much anymore on a personal level so I only know from secondhand knowledge what's it like inside Redskins Park. But I dealt with them almost every day from Summer 1998 to December 1992 and it was a horrible environment. It was a defeatist, every man for himself culture. The Turner era was one of disrespect, Schottenheimer one of egos (but not Matty), though it may have been the most similar to this one in terms of confidencek and the Spurrier era one of apathy.