Re: If Zorn Wins..........
 

On the field, I think he was kinda holding the team back by not using the players the way they are supposed to be used. Off the field I think he did more for the current Redskin players and staff than anyone ever has. It's almos like Dan brought him in to get the teams mind, and spirits right. Joe has that ability to calm you down, and have you focus on what's important. I'm sure more of the players miss Joe because of the impact he made off the field, as well as on it.

Re: If Zorn Wins..........
 

Joe definitely will deserve some credit for building this current roster.

Re: If Zorn Wins..........
 

If we are successful this year, not only do I think Joe Gibbs will deserve credit for building the team, he will also deserve credit for putting together the coaching staff and for instilling a new spirit and a new attitude in this team. This team, the players and the coaches, is still mostly the team that Gibbs put together and he should get at least some of the credit for any success that Coach Zorn has this year.

Beyond that, however, I really believe that Gibbs' lasting impact has been to change the attitudes and mindset of the organization. At the end of the Spurrier era, the Redskins were an organization that I no longer recognized. The team and the organization seemed to be headed in the direction of the Cardinals and the Lions as perennial losers. Gibbs turned that around. Without Gibbs, I don't think we'd even be the position to hope that a new, first time coach could lead us to success. For leaving the Redskins in a position for us to even be thinking about success next year, Joe Gibbs deserves credit.

Re: If Zorn Wins..........
 

[QUOTE=Sean"Big Hurt"Taylor;438670]I for one believe that Gibbs was holding them back. I believe that he was scared to take chances and always playing not to lose. With Zorn I really believe that we will open up a lot more and take advantage of our talent that we have on the team. Zorn, being from the Holmgren tree, will be what we need on this team. Zorn will win!!! Draft Albert if he is available!![/QUOTE]

I agree, Gibbs held this team back and played not to lose. I hope Zorn lets them play. If people think Gibbs should get any credit for whatever success Zorn might achieve then he has to get blame if the team loses. Gibbs did build this roster but lets face it, there are a lot of holes in this roster so Zorn has his work cut out for him. Are people really that desperate for Gibbs 2.0 to have some kind of successful conclusion that they have to create an imaginary tie to any success Zorn might have?

Bottom line is Gibbs is gone. If this teams wins its on Zorn, if they lose its on Zorn.

Re: If Zorn Wins..........
 

[QUOTE=irish;438781]I agree, Gibbs held this team back and played not to lose. I hope Zorn lets them play. If people think Gibbs should get any credit for whatever success Zorn might achieve then he has to get blame if the team loses. Gibbs did build this roster but lets face it, there are a lot of holes in this roster so Zorn has his work cut out for him. [B]Are people really that desperate for Gibbs 2.0 to have some kind of successful conclusion that they have to create an imaginary tie to any success Zorn might have?[/B]

Bottom line is Gibbs is gone. If this teams wins its on Zorn, if they lose its on Zorn.[/QUOTE]

What imaginary tie? Remember, as you even point out, Gibbs was also President of the team setting the ulimate roster for years to come.

Re: If Zorn Wins..........
 

[quote=irish;438781]I agree, Gibbs held this team back and played not to lose. I hope Zorn lets them play. If people think Gibbs should get any credit for whatever success Zorn might achieve then he has to get blame if the team loses. [B]Gibbs did build this roster[/B] but lets face it, there are a lot of holes in this roster so Zorn has his work cut out for him. Are people really that desperate for Gibbs 2.0 to have some kind of successful conclusion that they have to create an imaginary tie to any success Zorn might have?

Bottom line is Gibbs is gone. If this teams wins its on Zorn, if they lose its on Zorn.[/quote]

You said it right there, what's imaginary about that?

When Gruden won the SB with Tampa, the point is always brought up that he basically did it with Dungy's team. That's a valid point to me, nothing imaginary about it.

As for a successful conclusion to Gibbs 2.0, personally I think the way they rallied down the stretch and made the playoffs when they were seemingly left for dead at 5-7 was a successful ending. It might not have ended with a Super Bowl, but life isn't perfect.

Re: If Zorn Wins..........
 

[quote=Stuck in TX;438682]Gibbs went out and got some great talent for our roster. Also, I feel that Gibbs did a top-notch job mentally developing each and every person on the roster. Not a single team member was left out after the death of Sean Taylor. Everyone pulled together and got through it, feeding off of the perserverance that Joe Gibbs instills in each of his players. He got their heads ready for every game and every player knew they could win every game regardless of the final score. Every team has its player who messes up and sticks out as a trouble maker... except the Redskins.

[B]I believe, just from what I have seen, Zorn lacks the mental aspect of the game.[/B] He has the fundementals, and will bring a whole new aproach to how to play football. Not a bad thing by any means. If you add the fundementals he has, along with the perserverance, heart, and teamwork that Gibbs left behind, and finally add the player development and skill position assets that Zorn offers.... We have a great team. I do not think we can win any games in the next five years without attributing at least a little credit to Mr. Gibbs.

One more thing... Joe Gibbs is in that front office serving as an advisor to the team. He is in Dannys box, sitting next to his throne. As long as Gibbs is whispering in Danny's ear, it would not be fair to exclude Gibbs from any of the credit dished out for the Redskins.[/quote]

What do you mean exactly?

Re: If Zorn Wins..........
 

Without any question Joe Gibbs will deserve credit. This is Gibbs' roster. If Zorn loses this year, it probably won't be because of the players, it will be because of his lack of experience as head coach. Honestly though, I believe Zorn has a much better chance at being a winning head coach right out of the gate (considering the condition of the team he is inheriting) rather than being a losing coach.

Most often, a coach who comes in losing is inheriting a team that has been losing on a regular basis or needs to be rebuilt. While there are still some holes left to fill on this team, Gibbs left Zorn a playoff team to work with. All Zorn has to do is fill in the holes.

Re: If Zorn Wins..........
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;438785]You said it right there, what's imaginary about that?

When Gruden won the SB with Tampa, the point is always brought up that he basically did it with Dungy's team. That's a valid point to me, nothing imaginary about it.

As for a successful conclusion to Gibbs 2.0, personally I think the way they rallied down the stretch and made the playoffs when they were seemingly left for dead at 5-7 was a successful ending. It might not have ended with a Super Bowl, but life isn't perfect.[/QUOTE]

I hear you and I see the connection is real. Since there is a connection, if something goes wrong and this team flops I will expect to see Gibbs getting his fair share of the critism. I doubt that will happen though. IMO this is Zorn's team in good & bad. He gets the praise & the blame.

Lets face it Matty, Gibbs was brought back to win a Super Bowl and the fact that we have to point to rallying a team back from 5-7 as a good ending really crystalizes how disappointing Gibbs 2.0 was.

Re: If Zorn Wins..........
 

[quote=irish;438801]I hear you and I see the connection is real. Since there is a connection, if something goes wrong and this team flops I will expect to see Gibbs getting his fair share of the critism. I doubt that will happen though. IMO this is Zorn's team in good & bad. He gets the praise & the blame.

[B]Lets face it Matty, Gibbs was brought back to win a Super Bowl and the fact that we have to point to rallying a team back from 5-7 as a good ending really crystalizes how disappointing Gibbs 2.0 was[/B].[/quote]


Maybe for you it was, but putting everything in perspective I think it was a fitting ending. Classic Gibbs all the way. His teams always found a way to fight through adversity. Of course I would have loved to see him ride off with a SB win, but as I said life isn't perfect and in the end he left the team in better shape than it was when he got here.

Re: If Zorn Wins..........
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;438805]Maybe for you it was, but putting everything in perspective I think it was a fitting ending. Classic Gibbs all the way. His teams always found a way to fight through adversity. Of course I would have loved to see him ride off with a SB win, but as I said life isn't perfect and in the end he left the team in better shape than it was when he got here.[/QUOTE]

I agree it was a fitting ending. A disappointing ending to a disappointing tenure.

Re: If Zorn Wins..........
 

Why am I not surprised?

Re: If Zorn Wins..........
 

Gibbs should get alot of credit if Zorn wins. I relate our team to the cowboys of last year. I think Gibbs did a great job building an excellent foundation of a team (Much like Parcells did for the Cowboys, who got alot credit for their success in '07) and now its time for a young Jim Zorn to open it up and make us a top notch team. Offense is what I am worried about. Our defense remains good every year and I like the Blache hiring from within. Offense has always been our problem and I think that is where Gibbs was holding us back. However I said it once and I'll say it again: Next season will have little to do with the success of Zorn but the success of Jason Campbell. Campbell is what our entire future rests upon. If we want to go deep into the playoffs for once Campbell needs to get alot better. Although I like Campbell, I think he has all the tools, I am still not sold that he is our franchise QB and anyone who is sold is a fool.

Re: If Zorn Wins..........
 

[quote=SmootSmack;438683]If he loses, should Gibbs get any of the blame?

I honestly don't think he'll get much credit, but he definitely should.[/quote]

Of course he should. Unless Zorn brings in 53 new players, Gibbs will have contributed to any success the team has since he built the roster.

Failure however, has to be examined a bit more carefully. It could be attributed to Zorn's gameplans or use of the players.

We know this Skins team CAN win, even through turmoil and injuries. Some coaches can wreck good teams or just can't cut it as a leader (Spurrier). Hopefully Zorn is not one of those.

Re: If Zorn Wins..........
 

[QUOTE=irish;438801]I hear you and I see the connection is real. Since there is a connection, if something goes wrong and this team flops I will expect to see Gibbs getting his fair share of the critism. I doubt that will happen though. IMO this is Zorn's team in good & bad. He gets the praise & the blame.

Lets face it Matty, Gibbs was brought back to win a Super Bowl and the fact that we have to point to rallying a team back from 5-7 as a good ending really crystalizes how disappointing Gibbs 2.0 was.[/QUOTE]

Gibbs wasn't brought back for the sole purpose of winning a Super Bowl. He was also (perhaps more importantly) brought back to "right the ship" and restore some pride and purpose to the franchise for many years to come.