Re: Orakpo is Open to Change
 

[quote=freddyg12;555816][B]I would love to see MW back, he became a core guy w/the name to prove it! But I wonder if he can make the team even if he's signed.[/B] If nothing else, the young guys we drafted have more upside on spec. teams.

Having Orakpo play some LB will be cool as long as it doesn't stunt his development as a pass rusher. In the near future we may be playing a 3-4, you never know who might be D coordinator in 2-3 years. Blache was ready to retire in 08. So if Rak learns some OLB he'll be ready for any system.[/quote]

Freddy..whats up!

MW was a hell of a LB and team leader/fan favorite for many years. Hated to see him go for what all he brought to the table when healthy.

But the last several years he just has not been able to stay on the field do to injury problems, as mother time catch's us all..as you would know....lol

With that said, if he were to come back for the right price, as there hasn't been much action for him. It would be nice depth to have. And yes I believe without a doubt he would make the team.

Glad okra is open to change..so am I! Plug that machine in and turn him loose!

Re: Orakpo is Open to Change
 

[quote=GMScud;555817][B]Springs is still a top-tier player when he's on the field. Can't really say that about Marcus.[/B] Just because we talked about signing Levi Jones doesn't mean the Skins are interested in him. Signing players with past injuries is one thing. Marcus has an ongoing chronic hip issue which has contributed to multiple hamstring issues, and he just can't get to 100% anymore it seems. Trust me, I wish he could. I'd love to have him back at full tilt rocking it out at SAM.[/quote]

Well that certainly seems to be your opinion, but I would say Blache disagrees. Dec.18, 2008 this is what he had to say, "You lose a lot when you lose Marcus. Not to take anything away from the guys who stepped in and competed for us, but a Marcus is a Marcus. He is a cut above." He's had injuries just like Randy Thomas, Chris Samuels and others, but I've never heard he had a [B]chronic hip issue[/B]. I just find it funny the arguments made against him when others on the team have had injury issues as well. The fact is, the Redskins wanted him back or they wouldn't have made an offer. MW is just hurt about the way he was let go and by the offer being vet min. I don't blame the Skins for not wanting to pay him as much considering how much he's missed the last 2 years but it's not like the guy can't play at a high level anymore or has had worse injuries than some of the other players who are starting for us. The reason he's not here is because of pride, not because he can't play. We may not sign him but I seriously doubt he's washed up and he's certainly better than some of the other OLB's we have.

Re: Orakpo is Open to Change
 

The Redskins have already offered MW a reduced contract. He hasn't signed it yet. You can bet that by training camp he will.

While I worry about MW slowing up with age, he can still rock SLB better than Thomas or either of the rookies (at least for now).

I think MW at SLB and Orakpo with a hand in the dirt gives our defense the best chance at dominance in 2009.

Re: Orakpo is Open to Change
 

[quote=53Fan;555823]Well that certainly seems to be your opinion, but I would say Blache disagrees. Dec.18, 2008 this is what he had to say, "You lose a lot when you lose Marcus. Not to take anything away from the guys who stepped in and competed for us, but a Marcus is a Marcus. He is a cut above." He's had injuries just like Randy Thomas, Chris Samuels and others, but I've never heard he had a [B]chronic hip issue[/B]. I just find it funny the arguments made against him when others on the team have had injury issues as well. The fact is, the Redskins wanted him back or they wouldn't have made an offer. MW is just hurt about the way he was let go and by the offer being vet min. I don't blame the Skins for not wanting to pay him as much considering how much he's missed the last 2 years but it's not like the guy can't play at a high level anymore or has had worse injuries than some of the other players who are starting for us. The reason he's not here is because of pride, not because he can't play. We may not sign him but I seriously doubt he's washed up and he's certainly better than some of the other OLB's we have.[/quote]

I'm sure Blache means he's a cut above when he's full go, which he never is anymore. He has recurring hip problems in the same hip, thus, chronic hip problem. From [URL="http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.aspx?id=1489&sport=NFL"]Marcus' page[/URL] on rotoworld.com: "...injuries sapped his effectiveness and speed the last two seasons. Going on 32 with chronic hip and leg issues, he's unlikely to find another starting job." Also, [URL="http://www.hogshaven.com/2009/2/20/766249/redskins-release-marcus-wa"]this link[/URL] from Hog's Haven mentions that his hip problems are chronic AT BEST, possibly degenerative.

The Redskins may want him back, but not too badly. They didn't offer him any more than any other 31 year old fringe players. "MW is hurt about the way he was let go and offered the vet min?" Then I'd tell him to grow up. He knows better than anyone how much he's been slowed by age/injuries. It's the business. And even if he was hurt initially, the total lack of better offers by the 31 other teams in the league should tell him the Skins did the right thing.

He's missed 13 games the past 2 seasons. That's a ton. I never said the guy couldn't play, but he's not the player he was in his first two seasons with the team.

Re: Orakpo is Open to Change
 

[QUOTE=GMScud;555835]I'm sure Blache means he's a cut above when he's full go, which he never is anymore. He has recurring hip problems in the same hip, thus, chronic hip problem.

The Redskins may want him back, but not too badly. They didn't offer him any more than any other 31 year old fringe players. "MW is hurt about the way he was let go and offered the vet min?" Then I'd tell him to grow up. He knows better than anyone how much he's been slowed by age/injuries. It's the business. And even if he was hurt initially, the total lack of better offers by the 31 other teams in the league should tell him the Skins did the right thing.

He's missed 13 games the past 2 seasons. That's a ton. I never said the guy couldn't play,[B] but he's not the player he was in his first two seasons with the team.[/[/B]QUOTE]

I never said he was the player he was his first 2 seasons here. Neither is Randy Thomas or Chris Samuels. I can go on and on. I guess you can say the same thing about Daniels. He wouldn't come back for vet min. either until Blache talked him into it. I guess he needs to grow up too? And of course you would'nt be upset if the boss called you in and offered you minimum wage would you? I don't remember Mike Williams being offered a contract by anyone else either. Doe's that mean everyone else in the league has done the right thing except the Redskins?

Re: Orakpo is Open to Change
 

[quote=GMScud;555835]I'm sure Blache means he's a cut above when he's full go, which he never is anymore. He has recurring hip problems in the same hip, thus, chronic hip problem. From [URL="http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.aspx?id=1489&sport=NFL"]Marcus' page[/URL] on rotoworld.com: "...injuries sapped his effectiveness and speed the last two seasons. Going on 32 with chronic hip and leg issues, he's unlikely to find another starting job." Also, [URL="http://www.hogshaven.com/2009/2/20/766249/redskins-release-marcus-wa"]this link[/URL] from Hog's Haven mentions that his hip problems are chronic AT BEST, possibly degenerative.

The Redskins may want him back, but not too badly. They didn't offer him any more than any other 31 year old fringe players. "MW is hurt about the way he was let go and offered the vet min?" Then I'd tell him to grow up. He knows better than anyone how much he's been slowed by age/injuries. It's the business. And even if he was hurt initially, the total lack of better offers by the 31 other teams in the league should tell him the Skins did the right thing.

He's missed 13 games the past 2 seasons. That's a ton. I never said the guy couldn't play, but he's not the player he was in his first two seasons with the team.[/quote]

I disagree (sort of) w/ your take on Blache's comments from last year. Marcus wasn't a standout at any point last season (though he did post 8 tackles in the only game i saw live @ Fed Ex), but I think what you noticed, and what coach referred to, is when Marcus doesn't play teams have more success running to the strong side. While his ability has diminished some Marcus knows the system and the position better than anyone we currently have the roster. His difficulty in coverage could be mitigated by 1) better pressure up front 2) better coverage behind him (Horton so far hasn't really learned to cover well)

...bottom line I think MW will be better at SLB than anyone on our roster and i bet Blache feels the same way. But Marcus has several things working against him. The FO has gotten very stingy, and smart, w/ veterans taking up cap space. The roster is pretty full w/ talent already as in we probably carry extra d-line and o-line guys into the season. And finally, pride is working against him more than anything probably. Pride effs w/ our head and decision-making. He should re-sign for vet min cuz it's gonna be the best damn defense he'll ever be part of...and yeah he'd start.

Re: Orakpo is Open to Change
 

[quote=53Fan;555840][quote=GMScud;555835]I'm sure Blache means he's a cut above when he's full go, which he never is anymore. He has recurring hip problems in the same hip, thus, chronic hip problem.

The Redskins may want him back, but not too badly. They didn't offer him any more than any other 31 year old fringe players. "MW is hurt about the way he was let go and offered the vet min?" Then I'd tell him to grow up. He knows better than anyone how much he's been slowed by age/injuries. It's the business. And even if he was hurt initially, the total lack of better offers by the 31 other teams in the league should tell him the Skins did the right thing.

He's missed 13 games the past 2 seasons. That's a ton. I never said the guy couldn't play,[B] but he's not the player he was in his first two seasons with the team.[/[/B]QUOTE]

I never said he was the player he was his first 2 seasons here. Neither is Randy Thomas or Chris Samuels.I can go on and on. I guess you can say the same thing about Daniels. He wouldn't come back for vet min. either until Blache talked him into it. I guess he needs to grow up too? And of course you would'nt be upset if the boss called you in and offered you minimum wage would you? I don't remember Mike Williams being offered a contract by anyone else either. Doe's that mean everyone else in the league has done the right thing except the Redskins?[/quote]

You said, "It's not like he can't play at a high level anymore." If I'm not mistaken, he was a high level player in his first two seasons with the team. He's been an injury prone average player since.

Samuels may not be the player he was 5-7 years ago, but he's still a pro-bowl caliber talent, so that's not a very good argument. And Randy is a better player at his position when on the field than Marcus at this stage, IMO.

As far as your Mike Williams comment, I think it's pretty safe to say at this point that the other teams in the league were prudent in not signing him. The guy is 410lbs and he's not even allowed to practice with the team until he drops 30-40lbs and gets in shape. I suppose that has an outside chance of happening, but if not, then every team did the right thing except the Redskins I guess.

Re: Orakpo is Open to Change
 

Pretty sure Mike Williams is under 400 now

Re: Orakpo is Open to Change
 

[quote=The Goat;555845]I disagree (sort of) w/ your take on Blache's comments from last year. Marcus wasn't a standout at any point last season (though he did post 8 tackles in the only game i saw live @ Fed Ex), but I think what you noticed, and what coach referred to, is when Marcus doesn't play teams have more success running to the strong side. While his ability has diminished some Marcus knows the system and the position better than anyone we currently have the roster. His difficulty in coverage could be mitigated by 1) better pressure up front 2) better coverage behind him (Horton so far hasn't really learned to cover well)

...bottom line I think MW will be better at SLB than anyone on our roster and i bet Blache feels the same way. But Marcus has several things working against him. The FO has gotten very stingy, and smart, w/ veterans taking up cap space. The roster is pretty full w/ talent already as in we probably carry extra d-line and o-line guys into the season. And finally, pride is working against him more than anything probably. Pride effs w/ our head and decision-making. He should re-sign for vet min cuz it's gonna be the best damn defense he'll ever be part of...and yeah he'd start.[/quote]

I agree. And as I've said, of course he's not as good as his first 2 years here, but he was pretty damn good, and even losing a step he's still better than what we have. I still think he gets a lot of the blame for the Witten TD when Horton failed to come over the top like he was suppose to. Rookie mistake. If Marcus can only play 6 or 7 games a year than I don't want him. I'm just not convinced that's the case. But to think that we have better Strongside LB's on this team and Marcus is the only player who has had injuries is ridiculous. We are pretty much [B]counting[/B] on some of our starters to recover from injuries aren't we? I think he could make a very real contibution to this team.

Re: Orakpo is Open to Change
 

[quote=53Fan;555850]I agree. And as I've said, of course he's not as good as his first 2 years here, but he was pretty damn good, and even losing a step he's still better than what we have. I still think he gets a lot of the blame for the Witten TD when Horton failed to come over the top like he was suppose to. Rookie mistake. If Marcus can only play 6 or 7 games a year than I don't want him. I'm just not convinced that's the case. But to think that we have better Strongside LB's on this team and Marcus is the only player who has had injuries is ridiculous. We are pretty much [B]counting[/B] on some of our starters to recover from injuries aren't we? I think he could make a very real contibution to this team.[/quote]

I get what you're saying. I really do. He is better than what we have right now, but is it worth holding a roster spot at a position of need for a guy who is only able to get on the field about half the time, and is gimpy more often than not? You say if Marcus can only play 6 or 7 games then you don't want him. Well, he's missed 13 the past two years. So if he can play around 9 games, do you want him?

The starters we are counting on who are coming off injuries/surgeries aren't dealing with chronic problems though. A torn tricep (Samuels) for example, is not the same thing as a recurring, possibly degenerative lower body issue.

His hip is only going to get worse as time goes on, and he's on the wrong side of 30. I dunno man. I know you adore the guy, but I'm just not sure how much he can help us anymore.

Seriously 53, if he's the starting caliber, "pretty damn good" player you think he still is, then why haven't any other teams shown interest? Surely if was still a starting caliber player, someone would have made a play for him.

Re: Orakpo is Open to Change
 

[quote=Mattyk72;555849]Pretty sure Mike Williams is under 400 now[/quote]

He's at 392 as of May 7th. I'm rooting for that guy, I hope he gets to his playing weight and become a beast.

Re: Orakpo is Open to Change
 

Just so it isn't presented like MW has been chopped liver the last 3 years. 2006 he started 14 games and only had 7 less total tackles than 2005, plus 2.5 sacks. 2007 he only started 12 games and had 5 sacks. Not bad. Even as a part time player. I don't know if he could go a whole season or not. [B]Nobody else[/B] does either. As I said, I don't blame the FO for reducing his salary. But if he decides to follow Daniels and swallow his pride, he will make this team better.

Re: Orakpo is Open to Change
 

[quote=53Fan;555856]Just so it isn't presented like MW has been chopped liver the last 3 years. 2006 he started 14 games and only had 7 less total tackles than 2005, plus 2.5 sacks. 2007 he only started 12 games and had 5 sacks. Not bad. Even as a part time player. I don't know if he could go a whole season or not. [B]Nobody else[/B] does either. As I said, I don't blame the FO for reducing his salary. But if he decides to follow Daniels and swallow his pride, he will make this team better.[/quote]

For a second I thought you were talking about Mike Williams. I was very confused. LOL.

Re: Orakpo is Open to Change
 

[quote=53Fan;555856]Just so it isn't presented like MW has been chopped liver the last 3 years. 2006 he started 14 games and only had 7 less total tackles than 2005, plus 2.5 sacks. 2007 he only started 12 games and had 5 sacks. Not bad. Even as a part time player. I don't know if he could go a whole season or not. [B]Nobody else[/B] does either. As I said, I don't blame the FO for reducing his salary. But if he decides to follow Daniels and swallow his pride, he will make this team better.[/quote]He dropped off a lot between 2006 and 2007, and understandably so for a 29 year old linebacker. I do think his quality season in 2006 gets lost in the mess that was Griffin being hurt and everyone else being terrible. He had, IMO, a pro bowl year, but because the team defense was so horrific, it didn't matter.

But that was the last time he really performed at anything that looked like a probowl level. At this point, we can probably expect Marcus to be the same player we've seen the last two seasons. At a one-year deal, is that worth a roster spot? He is the class of the LBs as we speak.

Re: Orakpo is Open to Change
 

[quote=GMScud;555853]I get what you're saying. I really do. He is better than what we have right now, but is it worth holding a roster spot at a position of need for a guy who is only able to get on the field about half the time, and is gimpy more often than not? You say if Marcus can only play 6 or 7 games then you don't want him. Well, he's missed 13 the past two years. So if he can play around 9 games, do you want him?

The starters we are counting on who are coming off injuries/surgeries aren't dealing with chronic problems though. A torn tricep (Samuels) for example, is not the same thing as a recurring, possibly degenerative lower body issue.

His hip is only going to get worse as time goes on, and he's on the wrong side of 30. I dunno man. I know you adore the guy, but I'm just not sure how much he can help us anymore.

Seriously 53, if he's the starting caliber, "pretty damn good" player you think he still is, then why haven't any other teams shown interest? Surely if was still a starting caliber player, someone would have made a play for him.[/quote]

Look GMScud. I'm not[B] Blindly[/B] in love with the guy. Other teams probably haven't shown a lot of interest for the same reasons you have doubts. And he's probably more valuable to us because he knows what is expected of him here. But if you look at my last post, he stats weren't horrible even part time. Maybe he [B]can't[/B] cut it anymore, but I don't think you can just say that at this point. He has an offer. If it's still on the table, I'd like to see him take it. It wouldn't cost us much and I still think he can make a difference. I honestly believe, if healthy, he's the best option we have at SAM. If he signs, check him out in camp and if he's not healthy enough to play....cut him.