Re: the years down the road
 

We also need a partridge in a pear tree.

Man, that's a lot of players, although there are NFL teams that seem to have a significant number of new faces from year to year and it doesn't kill them (Patriots). They key, as others have observed, is having the management talent to find them and integrate them into the team, and that, sadly, we do not have at the moment.

Re: the years down the road
 

It can be done a bit faster than you think. You're right in saying that within 3 years our roster will need a nearly complete overhaul. But if you build from the trenches first, you can be reasonably successful with moderate talent at the skill positions (NY Jets, Baltimore Ravens).

We need to draft offensive linemen nearly exclusively this April. If we get some strong offensive linemen the offense will suddenly look a lot better. Hopefully whatever management we have next year is smart enough to realize that.

Re: the years down the road
 

[quote=skins89moss;624408]Look at Veron Davis it took him about 3 years to make a difference at TE.[/quote]

It took Vernon Davis a Mike Singletary to make a difference at TE. Singletary turned his diva attitude into team captain material in a matter of months. I'm a big fan of him as a head coach.

Re: the years down the road
 

[quote=Mattyk72;624299]So you're writing off MM after he just saw his first action?

Still too early to write off DT and MK too if you ask me.[/quote]

Definitely too early to write of MM. I think he'll end up being better in this league than DT and MK. I'm getting close to writing both of them off. San Fran doesn't have a great O-line, and Alex Smith isn't a good QB, and yet Crabtree has done more in his first few games than MK and DT have done in their first few years. First MK wins the starting job, then gets demoted, and neither have made any impact at any point. Both have had their work ethic questioned. I think that going into OTAs/camp next year, the WR poisition (among others) needs to be a wide open competition, and no one's job should be safe. Our WR's are an effortless, unproductive bunch.

Re: the years down the road
 

Of course DT and MK have been disappointing, but the entire offense as a whole has been a failure under Zorn. Typically you're talking about a 3-4 year learning curve for WRs in this league. Behind QB the WR spot is the most difficult to adjust to for rookies. I know it's easy to want to cut them loose after this year but I think you've got to give them one more year.

Re: the years down the road
 

[quote=Mattyk72;624531]Of course DT and MK have been disappointing, but the entire offense as a whole has been a failure under Zorn. Typically you're talking about a 3-4 year learning curve for WRs in this league. Behind QB the WR spot is the most difficult to adjust to for rookies. I know it's easy to want to cut them loose after this year but I think you've got to give them one more year.[/quote]

Right, I'm not disagreeing with you, I just said I'm close to being done with them. If they don't come into next year showing a marked improvement, they can be cut loose and I won't bat an eye.

I know it's old, but I have to look at Stan Hixon again here. Effort and route running seem to be a huge issue with this group. For as "talented" as MK and DT supposedly are, they have come nowhere. Coaching? Perhaps.

Re: the years down the road
 

[quote=skins89moss;624408]Look at Veron Davis it took him about 3 years to make a difference at TE.[/quote]

I hate it when people argue about how long it takes other players to produce and compare them to Thomas and Kelly. Davis wasn't good in his first few years, but at least he produced a little. He averaged 35 yards per game and 3.5 Td's per season in his first two years. Thomas has averaged EIGHT yards per game and HALF a touchdown per season. Kelly has averaged SEVEN yards per game and has ZERO touchdowns. I cannot think of one player that panned our after showing this little promise over their first two seasons. Stick a fork in them, they are done. Best case scenario one of them will be a contributing receiver, but never starting material.

Re: the years down the road
 

Hopefull we'll have a new GM to thoughtfully sort through the debris and come up with an acceptable finding. You've incooperated a lot of senerios, some of which will sort themselves out. I agree we do however have some adding as well as subtracting to do, I'm content to watch how it plays out.

Re: the years down the road
 

[quote=GMScud;624534]Right, I'm not disagreeing with you, I just said I'm close to being done with them. If they don't come into next year showing a marked improvement, they can be cut loose and I won't bat an eye.

I know it's old, but I have to look at Stan Hixon again here. Effort and route running seem to be a huge issue with this group. For as "talented" as MK and DT supposedly are, they have come nowhere. Coaching? Perhaps.[/quote]
good point..

Re: the years down the road
 

It's really not hard to be competitive in 2010 if you decide to do it the right way. The only difference is that you don't really get deterred if the 2010 team isn't as good as you'd like.

Re: the years down the road
 

[quote=Schneed10;624515]It can be done a bit faster than you think. You're right in saying that within 3 years our roster will need a nearly complete overhaul. [B]But if you build from the trenches first, you can be reasonably successful with moderate talent at the skill positions (NY Jets, Baltimore Ravens).[/B]

We need to draft offensive linemen nearly exclusively this April. If we get some strong offensive linemen the offense will suddenly look a lot better. Hopefully whatever management we have next year is smart enough to realize that.[/quote]Best point in this entire thread. We won a Super Bowl with Mark Rypien at QB and an aging Earnest Byner at RB because we had great line play. Focus on winning in the trenches, and much of the rest will improve dramatically.

Re: the years down the road
 

Hint....

Charley Casserly...

and he was soooo wrong on Mario Williams?????

Re: the years down the road
 

[quote=Bubba1Putt;624726]Hint....

Charley Casserly...

and he was soooo wrong on Mario Williams?????[/quote]

Heath Shuler QB TENN
Andre Johnson OT Penn State

Welcome to the board.

Mr. Casserly

Re: the years down the road
 

Dude, that's what rebuilding is, conceding that you need to start the team over essentially. It's not like we are the first team ever to go through this. I agree that we don't have a great foundation at this point but teams have turned around less in less than 3 years before. As bad as we are we're not worse than the 07 Dolphins, who went on to win their division the following year.

Re: the years down the road
 

[quote=skinsfaninok;624185]Well damn dude, let's just become a expansion team and have a brand new draft lol.. You need to be realistic to what we will actually get. I say it starts with a tackle, and qb in the first two rounds of our draft. After that, we can start talking about every other hole that needs to be filled[/quote]

You really feel like a qb and a tackle are going to solve anything...the way I see it, you need at least 2 if not 3 offensive linemen in this draft to even have a shot at rebuilding quick. JC is not the main problem...is he the best qb in the world, absolutely not...but u put peyton manning behind that line and we would be marginally better - you have to build up the trenches