Re: Why Santana Moss gets a free pass...
 

Maybe nows the time for the league to look into having specific doctors for the most common ailments players get. The players visit those doctors only and get treated by them. Kinda like an HMO. These would be doctors that work for the league and know the rules. If a player or team has any question about the drugs or vitamines they are interested in taking then the doctor should be able to answer the question for them. Hopefully it would also eliminate players getting their hands on substances that are on the banned list. If a player is found to have used after all that then it's definitly on the player for "cheating."

If the player chooses to use his own doctor then he runs the risk of getting into trouble and punished if he takes a banned prescription drug.

Re: Why Santana Moss gets a free pass...
 

Moss has been probably my favorite Redskin over the last decade, but if he cheated he should first come out and state it and give an explination why. Then he should be punished by the commish, probably looking at 4 games. No pass here. I think he probably used to get through injury, but cheating is cheating...

Re: Why Santana Moss gets a free pass...
 

[quote=SmootSmack;702560]Moss has certainly given the Redskins some great moments (but he's also had boneheaded "take off my helmet on the field, jump up and down, and pout" moments), and I understand the temptations and pressures to stay on the field. Still....there were plenty of other players under those same pressures and temptations who didn't succumb.[/quote]

His current situation is synonymous with your description. Players need to understand the importance of making good decisions. The decision by Moss to be involved in the use of HGH was a bad one, the consequences are his alone.

Re: Why Santana Moss gets a free pass...
 

This is why I cannot get mad at him.

[quote]>> The player told authorities he never knowingly received HGH. He got IV drips, injections to his knees, and B-12 shots to his arm.[/quote]

[URL="http://voices.washingtonpost.com/redskinsinsider/canadian-doctor-charged-with-s.html"]Redskins Insider - Canadian doctor charged with supplying HGH was traveling to treat player in Washington[/URL]

It's not like he was doping up with it with the intent of making himself stronger or a better athlete. He was trying to get healthy and wrongfully trusted a doctor in the process. Judging from what I think I know of his character he just doesn't seem like the guy who would try to cheat to put up big numbers. His play on the field didn't reflect that of an abuser either.

To be fair though he should have to serve a 2-4 game suspension because the rules are the rules. In my mind however, I am never going to look at Tanna differently because he is a good character guy.

Re: Why Santana Moss gets a free pass...
 

[quote=Angry;702604]This is why I cannot get mad at him.



[URL="http://voices.washingtonpost.com/redskinsinsider/canadian-doctor-charged-with-s.html"]Redskins Insider - Canadian doctor charged with supplying HGH was traveling to treat player in Washington[/URL]

[B]It's not like he was doping up with it with the intent of making himself stronger or a better athlete.[/B] He was trying to get healthy and wrongfully trusted a doctor in the process. Judging from what I think I know of his character he just doesn't seem like the guy who would try to cheat to put up big numbers. His play on the field didn't reflect that of an abuser either.

To be fair though he should have to serve a 2-4 game suspension because the rules are the rules. In my mind however, I am never going to look at Tanna differently because he is a good character guy.[/quote]

I know very little about HGH and other types of illegal substances like HGH, so I do not pretend to be an expert. So I went on line to read a little about it. The first some what trusted news source (wall street journal) article I found says there is now Clinical proof that HGH does improve certain athletic skills like SPRINTING by 4%.

From the article.

"New England Journal of Medicine study published two decades ago found HGH had anti-aging effects on men over 60. That sparked the creation of an entire industry, notable for its testimonials by creepy-looking men who seem to have acquired 40-year-old bodies beneath their 65-year-old heads. (Some of those claims have sparked a warning appended to the NEJM study saying the research has “been cited in potentially misleading e-mail advertisements.”)

But there wasn’t much evidence to show that HGH did much to make athletes run faster, jump higher or hit more home runs, as the Health Blog reported in 2008. That is, until earlier this month, when researchers published the first evidence suggesting HGH has limited effects on athletic performance.

The randomized trial of more than 100 recreational athletes of both sexes was sponsored by the World Anti-Doping Agency (which bans the use of HGH in competitive athletes) and published in the Annals of Internal Medicine. It found that growth hormone improved sprinting ability by about 4% but not other measures of athletic performance the researchers tracked, such as endurance, strength or power. Men who also got testosterone injections saw an 8% boost in sprinting performance. Researchers said the study was too small to gauge the safety of HGH; side effects reported by study participants were minor and included swelling and joint pain.

It’s not clear whether the same results would translate to elite athletes, [B]but the researchers told the AP that applying the improvement to a 10-second, 100-meter sprint would make the difference between winning and finishing last.[/B]

[url=http://blogs.wsj.com/health/2010/05/19/does-human-growth-hormone-actually-do-anything-for-athletes/]Does Human Growth Hormone Actually Do Anything for Athletes? - Health Blog - WSJ[/url]

Sorry this post is so long. I think we need more research on this to make a definitive claim, but clearly almost every legitimate sport has banned HGH. There is a reason . I do not think we can say Moss should get a pass on this just because he was using for injury.

Re: Why Santana Moss gets a free pass...
 

I am not gonna give Moss a pass....but I also don't really care. I just don't. I didn't care when Merriman got caught, I didnt care when Cushing got caught, I dont care now that Moss got caught. Moss broke the rules, he should face the same types of penalties anyone else does. If it comes out Tom Brady was with this guy, he should be right there too. Do I wish the game was 100% clean, without a doubt. I wish there was not a single drug in any sport... but I know thats never going to be a realistic thing, so I just am kind of over it right off the bat.

Re: Why Santana Moss gets a free pass...
 

[QUOTE]Originally Posted by Angry
This is why I cannot get mad at him.



Redskins Insider - Canadian doctor charged with supplying HGH was traveling to treat player in Washington

It's not like he was doping up with it with the intent of making himself stronger or a better athlete. He was trying to get healthy and wrongfully trusted a doctor in the process. Judging from what I think I know of his character he just doesn't seem like the guy who would try to cheat to put up big numbers. His play on the field didn't reflect that of an abuser either.

To be fair though he should have to serve a 2-4 game suspension because the rules are the rules. In my mind however, I am never going to look at Tanna differently because he is a good character guy.[/QUOTE]

Agreed.

Re: Why Santana Moss gets a free pass...
 

[quote=Pocket$ $traight;702554]I agree with you about that. If he used them, he deserves 4 games. My thought is that he does not deserve the holier than though criticism that always comes with instances like this.

If his choice was to do these treatments or possibly have to retire, I don't blame him one bit. Moss' game has always been based on elite speed. You take that away, he is marginal at best.[/quote]


I agree with you...there is a precedent about HGH suspensions already and the fact is they ARE banned, even if he used them for healing an injury instead of cheating/performance enhancement.

He took a gamble and because the doc is in trouble himself, he'll get caught because of that. I'm convinced players all around the league also use them for injuries, not necessarily to become faster/stronger/better. The gamble is relying on the doctor himself not getting in any legal trouble and outing you. Most players won't have to go through this, but many will and that's where the real risk of getting caught comes from. Since there is no test, the NFL has to rely on the legal system to locate these offenses. It's a crapshoot. The players know this but getting over injuries so they can keep playing or come back quicker, with minimal punishment even if caught, makes it worth it.

Moss will not be any different in my eyes because I know he's one of many, or MOST players around the league and even on the Redskins who use this for injuries. We're not talking about steroids or performance enhancing cheating, it's medical treatment...nothing more, nothing less.

Re: Why Santana Moss gets a free pass...
 

[quote=Gmanc711;702615]I am not gonna give Moss a pass....but I also don't really care. I just don't. I didn't care when Merriman got caught, I didnt care when Cushing got caught, I dont care now that Moss got caught. Moss broke the rules, he should face the same types of penalties anyone else does. If it comes out Tom Brady was with this guy, he should be right there too. Do I wish the game was 100% clean, without a doubt. I wish there was not a single drug in any sport... but I know thats never going to be a realistic thing, so I just am kind of over it right off the bat.[/quote]

You're mixing things up here.

Merriman, Cushing = roids = blatant cheating, gained strength and ability
Moss = HGH = injury treatment, no performance benefits

Re: Why Santana Moss gets a free pass...
 

People need to understand that HGH is not steriods ... i hate all the fuss about HGH .. if there is something out there that can help a player or person heal at all why not use this ? Why is not legal period. Steroids are a different animal...........Moss will not even sniff a suspension on this matter .. they don't test for HGH so wtf did you do against the rules ?? I'll await your responses....

Re: Why Santana Moss gets a free pass...
 

[quote=Buster;702630]You're mixing things up here.

Merriman, Cushing = roids = blatant cheating, gained strength and ability
Moss = HGH = injury treatment, no performance benefits[/quote]

You're right but HGH does have the ability to increase athletic performance, it all depends on the application of the drug. We lump those who might be using HGH for rehabilitation purposes in with those who use if for performance enhancing purposes because the NFL PED policy makes no differentiation, using is using. It's also hard to determine at what point the application of HGH is no longer necessary to rehab the injury, meaning if the injury has healed and the drug continues to be applied then you could be enhancing performance.

Re: Why Santana Moss gets a free pass...
 

[quote=Angry;702604]This is why I cannot get mad at him.



[URL="http://voices.washingtonpost.com/redskinsinsider/canadian-doctor-charged-with-s.html"]Redskins Insider - Canadian doctor charged with supplying HGH was traveling to treat player in Washington[/URL]

It's not like he was doping up with it with the intent of making himself stronger or a better athlete. He was trying to get healthy and wrongfully trusted a doctor in the process. Judging from what I think I know of his character he just doesn't seem like the guy who would try to cheat to put up big numbers. His play on the field didn't reflect that of an abuser either.

To be fair though he should have to serve a 2-4 game suspension because the rules are the rules. In my mind however, I am never going to look at Tanna differently because he is a good character guy.[/quote]

I like most of have only know about Hgh thru what i read from sports reporters in their sports articles. i thought, like the article defensewins links, Hgh can provide an enhancement, however the benefit is marginal or small. (marginal compared to what? roids?).

but if santana was only getting IV drips, etc and not HgHG, why did he have to set up appointments with this canadian doctor in hotel rooms in DC? why couldnt he just get IV drips from the skins training staff or any local medical provider?

I dont know if santana was doing it to heal, enhance his body or both but like redskins134425 and i said earlier, there seems to be no way of telling how much and where a person injected HgH so a player is always going to say he was doing it to rehab and speed up healing of an injury.

Dcto AZ - the rodney harrison suspension is almost identical to moss'. while there is no current test for HgH which the NFL has adopted, if a player admits to using it or is under investigation by the feds, that right there is your positive test. santana already admitted to using HgH to feds in sept. '09 (i believe). we'll just have to wait and see how this shakes out but if there are 20 someodd nfl players on the list of players this doctor has treated (one being a huge name in the nfl), this could get messier and bigger real quick.

Re: Why Santana Moss gets a free pass...
 

As of about 12:30 PM, the other name being tossed out there is Tom Brady.....

Re: Why Santana Moss gets a free pass...
 

1230 yesterday heh

HGH is usually taken in conjunction with other things for performance

Re: Why Santana Moss gets a free pass...
 

[quote=Buster;702630]You're mixing things up here.

Merriman, Cushing = roids = blatant cheating, gained strength and ability
Moss = HGH = injury treatment, no performance benefits[/quote]

Its still not a legal substance. As I stated I really dont care all that much, and I dont view Moss any differently now than I did last week at this time...but I have a feeling if this was Roy Williams or Jason Witten or soemthing, we might be singing a little bit of a different tune.