Re: North Korea fires artillery barrage on South Korea
 

More on Chinese military: [url=http://www.sinodefence.com/army/default.asp]Chinese Ground Forces - SinoDefence.com[/url]

Re: North Korea fires artillery barrage on South Korea
 

[quote=GMScud;762186]North Korea ain't ish without China. They're responsible for a big chunk of NK's economy, not too mention they supply about half of NK's food. If China wants NK to stop, they'll stop.[/quote]

Yup. Pretty much.

From a Reuters article:
China expressed worry after North Korea shelled a South Korean island on Tuesday in the latest escalation of tensions on the Korean peninsula that neighbours the world's second-biggest economy.
[url=http://in.news.yahoo.com/137/20101123/760/twl-factbox-ties-binding-china-and-north.html]FACTBOX - Ties binding China and North Korea - Yahoo! India News[/url]

I am betting China does it's usual and tells NK "stop" in no uncertain terms. At the same time, NK ain't exactly run by the most rational people in the world. To me, that's the scary part.

Re: North Korea fires artillery barrage on South Korea
 

I have no idea who Lee Majors is. Is he worth knowing?

Re: North Korea fires artillery barrage on South Korea
 

[quote=Dirtbag359;762165]Hey, what do Lee Majors, Rachael Ray, Julia Louis-Dreyfus, Scarlett Johanson, Hedge funds, Kim Zolciak, Aubrey Huff, Smartphone apps, and the Stock market have in common? Well according to the Yahoo Trending now list they're all more important then the North Korea Attack.
[IMG]http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad93/CapsXXVI/Trendingnow.jpg[/IMG][/quote]

All I have to say about this is....

[IMG]http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3156/2993244653_82aceb0b9e.jpg[/IMG]

China is developing a aircraft carrier "buster". A missile designed purposely to take out a carrier in the middle of its carrier group. This is actually a major advance purposely designed against the US fleet. To think that they are content as number 2 is not realistic. That said, as long as north korea can act as a buffer state they aren't going to do much more than lip service to stop the north koreans.

To answer JoeRedskin. If your scenario presented itself we would have to engage, we are too deeply entreched to up and pull out. Would I want to go to war over them, no, would the us have too? Yes

Re: North Korea fires artillery barrage on South Korea
 

But what ever you do don't call them the axes of evil.

Re: North Korea fires artillery barrage on South Korea
 

For the Ignorant Americans, here is a map:

[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Inchon_islands_2.svg]File:Inchon islands 2.svg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/url]

Did love this line from a recent article:
"SEOUL — North Korea on Wednesday [B]accused Seoul of "reckless military provocation"[/B] — a day after an artillery attack left at least four people dead on a South Korean island." [url=http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/40349704/ns/world_news-asiapacific/]North Korea says region is on 'brink of war' - World news - Asia-Pacific - North Korea - msnbc.com[/url]

Wait, you shell their island and then accuse SK of "provocation" b/c they are pissed that you shelled them?? Wow. News flash: Joetheismanfan has taken a job with the North Korean publicity office.

Re: North Korea fires artillery barrage on South Korea
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;762381]For the Ignorant Americans, here is a map:

[url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Inchon_islands_2.svg]File:Inchon islands 2.svg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/url]

Did love this line from a recent article:
"SEOUL — North Korea on Wednesday [B]accused Seoul of "reckless military provocation"[/B] — a day after an artillery attack left at least four people dead on a South Korean island." [url=http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/40349704/ns/world_news-asiapacific/]North Korea says region is on 'brink of war' - World news - Asia-Pacific - North Korea - msnbc.com[/url]

Wait, you shell their island and then accuse SK of "provocation" b/c they are pissed that you shelled them?? Wow. News flash: Joetheismanfan has taken a job with the North Korean publicity office.[/quote]

Not defending NK, because they clearly want to saber rattle. SK is holding drills in the waterway that NK disputes, and that is where they claim the provocation comes from.

Sending an aircraft carrier would seem to me to be a statement that the US is concerned about the North's intentions.

edit:
imagine if Mexico claimed that Texas was actually part of Mexico, and held war games there, would the US just kinda shrug our shoulders? Of course that isn't a perfect analogy, maybe it is barely related, but it was the best I could think of.

Re: North Korea fires artillery barrage on South Korea
 

For people who don't know where South Korea is I found an easy way to remember. Its just south of North Korea.

Re: North Korea fires artillery barrage on South Korea
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;762393]Not defending NK, because they clearly want to saber rattle. SK is holding drills in the waterway that NK disputes, and that is where they claim the provocation comes from.

Sending an aircraft carrier would seem to me to be a statement that the US is concerned about the North's intentions.

edit:
imagine if Mexico claimed that Texas was actually part of Mexico, and held war games there, would the US just kinda shrug our shoulders? Of course that isn't a perfect analogy, maybe it is barely related, but it was the best I could think of.[/quote]

The only thing I have read about SK holding drills in those waters is from NK which we can only take with a grain of salt without other proof.

Re: North Korea fires artillery barrage on South Korea
 

[quote=firstdown;762402]The only thing I have read about SK holding drills in those waters is from NK which we can only take with a grain of salt without other proof.[/quote]

South Korea admitted: 1) conducting drills in disputed waters; 2) firing shells.

"Pyongyang accused the South of firing first. The Southern military said it had conducted exercises but shelling was directed away from the North."
[url=http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-11818005]BBC News - North Korean artillery hits South Korean island‎[/url]

Not saying this provides an excuse to shell innocent civilians.

Similarly, CRR, in your hypothetical, the problem is that it was occuring in disputed waters which are slightly more amorphous than the Mexican army marching north of the Rio Grande to conduct drills. If Mexico conducted naval drills in US waters, I suspect they would be kindly asked to leave by a couple of USAAF wings who might, while conducting drills of their own, accidently drop a few air to surface missiles near some Mexican ships. Regardless, I doubt anything short of an armed invasion of undisputed US territory would provoke the US into shelling civilian areas.

SK & NK govts. extremely dislike each other and would like to wipe the other off the face of the earth. BUT - neither of there supporters are willing to just let them duke it out. So, like two little kids who don't like each other, they do everything they can to provoke the other into starting a fight so they can claim self-defense.

Just reading the reports, I think this will blow over although China is royally pissed that we parked an aircraft carrier group off their border in support of SK. Pretty sure we would feel the same if they, in support of NK, gunned up right next to Japanese waters.

Re: North Korea fires artillery barrage on South Korea
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;762420]South Korea admitted: 1) conducting drills in disputed waters; 2) firing shells.

"Pyongyang accused the South of firing first. The Southern military said it had conducted exercises but shelling was directed away from the North."
[url=http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-11818005]BBC News - North Korean artillery hits South Korean island‎[/url]

Not saying this provides an excuse to shell innocent civilians.

[B]Similarly, CRR, in your hypothetical, the problem is that it was occuring in disputed waters which are slightly more amorphous than the Mexican army marching north of the Rio Grande to conduct drills.[/B] If Mexico conducted naval drills in US waters, I suspect they would be kindly asked to leave by a couple of USAAF wings who might, while conducting drills of their own, accidently drop a few air to surface missiles near some Mexican ships. Regardless, I doubt anything short of an armed invasion of undisputed US territory would provoke the US into shelling civilian areas.

SK & NK govts. extremely dislike each other and would like to wipe the other off the face of the earth. BUT - neither of there supporters are willing to just let them duke it out. So, like two little kids who don't like each other, they do everything they can to provoke the other into starting a fight so they can claim self-defense.

Just reading the reports, I think this will blow over although China is royally pissed that we parked an aircraft carrier group off their border in support of SK. Pretty sure we would feel the same if they, in support of NK, gunned up right next to Japanese waters.[/quote]

I agree about my very weak hypothetical. I thought of using the Bering Sea, or some other waterway, but couldn't find one that made sense. Another problem with my hypothetical is that Mexico and the US have decent relations overall. What I was trying, and failing, to do was evoke a sense of outrage that NK might claim to feel. Look, to us it's a silly line on the map, but maybe the better one would have something from the Civil War era. This is one country that is split in two due to political ideology. Add to that the fact that one side is failing economically and is stagnant, and the other is pretty robust, and you get a very toxic environment.

All that said, this will blow over, unless either China or the US miscalculate a response. The key is good communications between our governments. Like JR said, the Chinese don't like our aircraft carrier, and that is pretty understandable since they have demonstrated themselves to be formidable offensive weaponry.

Re: North Korea fires artillery barrage on South Korea
 

Anyone presenting NK's side in this ordeal needs to remember that just a few months back NK torpedoed and sank one of SK's ships. Now they are shelling SK. Not sure just wtf needs to happen to be considered an act of war. Somebody is eventually going to have to get control of Pyongyang, be it China or SK. This whole extortionist/sabre rattling routine every 4-6 months can't continue, not with a legitimate nuclear program. It's like leaving a loaded gun in the hands of a schizophrenic, bad things are eventually going to happen.

Re: North Korea fires artillery barrage on South Korea
 

[quote=BleedBurgundy;762480]Anyone presenting NK's side in this ordeal needs to remember that just a few months back NK torpedoed and sank one of SK's ships. Now they are shelling SK. Not sure just wtf needs to happen to be considered an act of war. Somebody is eventually going to have to get control of Pyongyang, be it China or SK. This whole extortionist/sabre rattling routine every 4-6 months can't continue, not with a legitimate nuclear program. It's like leaving a loaded gun in the hands of a schizophrenic, bad things are eventually going to happen.[/quote]
So how do you stop them?

Re: North Korea fires artillery barrage on South Korea
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;762517]So how do you stop them?[/quote]

IMO, our State Dept. uses back channels to get China to agree that military intervention will not result in escalation... then we (or SK) shock and awe their asses and leave it at that.