Re: War on Drugs Cant Be Won, According to Global Leaders
 

Canadian Science shows the inherent dangers (yes I think this is an awesome video!)

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Re: War on Drugs Cant Be Won, According to Global Leaders
 

[QUOTE=mredskins;805471]Why do folks always point out it is their tax money when it is going to something wasteful but never say their tax money is being used for something good?[/QUOTE]

First, I was joking. Sorry, once again, forgot to put on the sarcasm font.

Second, my tax dollars go to many, many good things. Too numerous to name. So, b/c the vast majority is well spent [ [I]just saying that to piss off firstdown and CRed[/I] ;) ], I and others should just ignore what they believe to be wasteful spending of public funds? If I consider it a misuse of public funds to subsidize the self-destructive habits that have no public health value, am I not entitled to voice such an opininon? And when I do, why do I have to add a disclaimer about all the good things my tax dollars go to?

Just as mlpertert's "reasons sound selfish" to you, yours (if you weren't joking) smacked a little of unjustified entitlement to me. You can treat your body any way you want to - just don't then expect the rest of us to bear the costs for you idiocy.

Re: War on Drugs Cant Be Won, According to Global Leaders
 

[quote=Dirtbag59;805477][quote=mlmpetert;805456]^



Hard drugs like meth and coke have been proven to literally destroy the brain to the point where parts of the brain responsible for basic decisions (like not punching someone because they didn't get your order right at McDonalds) are eroded. Maybe going after the users that have done nothing besides use is the wrong COA however the people that push these drugs need to be sent to jail.



Not saying that. However what the legalize pot movement will try to get people to believe is an effective treatment for all forms of pain and should serve as a replacement for narcotics. To me thats a big jump and an overstatement thats main purpose is to get people to join a cause under false pretenses.



Maybe I'm biased against chiropractors and acupuncturist but thats because I've heard stories about promises of cures for everything from arthritis to cancer and people being charged more then they would have to pay for legitimate medical procedures backed by science and peer reviewed research. Obviously not every chiropractor and accupuncturist promises to cure cancer. However Chiropractic has been proven to be nothing more then a dangerous form of massage by legitimate medical journals. Accupuncture's benefits have only proven to be therapeutic/placebo and unnecessarily risky.

It shouldn't be illegal to perform chiropractic or acupuncture however more people should be informed of the risk, and it most certainly should be illegal for both types of practitioners to claim to treat diseases for which there is no medical evidence that they can provide treatment.



Hackie sacks only marginally improve hand-eye coordination. People that use them should be put to death.



Part of it is experience. I ended up very sick in part because of Cigarettes, which is obviously a big part my fault. However the fact of the matter is while pot has some medical benefits, cigarettes have virtually zero. And even though it makes money from sin taxes and the like it also force others to pay inflated health care cost. Still it's a pointless drug that even as a legal substance causes more harm then good.

Then again at this point the only real way to fight against cigarettes is to have it further labeled as a social stigma, more then it already is. Making them illegal would be an ineffective deterrent.



I never said my reasons weren't selfish. And though I didn't clearly state them as such I did infer with my "not in any rush to legalize pot" statement. Granted part of my reasons fall under the "for the good of society" column. However I won't deny that part of my reasons are in fact selfish.



You should. However I, or anyone else for that matter, shouldn't be allowed to overstate, or even outright lie, to get you to join my cause or undertake a certain form of treatment. In many cases thats what I see from the legalize pot movement, and while we're at it many alternative medicine practitioners (of course the topic of this thread is the war on drugs so I'll digress on said topic until an appropriate thread is created).

Then again simply saying "I want to get high while not destroying my liver" might not be as politically effective as "hey look, a treatment for cancer and glaucoma that big pharma doesn't want you to know about."[/quote]

Nice post.

Re: War on Drugs Cant Be Won, According to Global Leaders
 

About as stupid as the "War on Terrorism" and about as affective too.

Re: War on Drugs Cant Be Won, According to Global Leaders
 

I love gov't spending, and GMScud is an awesome mod. (one of these statements is not true;))

Re: War on Drugs Cant Be Won, According to Global Leaders
 

Damn, I thought you liked GMScud. You're a hard, hard man. But then, you're probably stoned and texting as you drive home right now.

Re: War on Drugs Cant Be Won, According to Global Leaders
 

Why you gotta be putting my private life out there. I'm on the way to pick up my gov't check at the same time. It's all good.


[/sarcasm]

Re: War on Drugs Cant Be Won, According to Global Leaders
 

So back on topic, is the war on drugs worth it or not? I think it's obviously been proven to be a giant failure, so what's the next step?

Re: War on Drugs Cant Be Won, According to Global Leaders
 

[quote=Mattyk;805505]So back on topic, is the war on drugs worth it or not? I think it's obviously been proven to be a giant failure, so what's the next step?[/quote]Your original statements are on point. Legalize weed (age 21), tax the $hit out of it. Illegal disti should get the same punishment as illegal cig disti. Possesion of hard drugs (coke, heroin, meth, etc.) mandatory treatment then escalate to criminal penalities. Disti of hard drugs...nail 'em just like now.

Declare a state of emergency along the border with Mexico and deploy troops, not National Guard, active duty troops. First destroy (lock-up or kill) the gangs and drug cartels in U.S., next use diplomacy (major financial sanctions) to get the Mexican gov't to clean up its act and fight the battle on their side of the border. With the firepower of the U.S. military behind them, they'll be more likely to stand up to the drug cartels.

Tax revenue will help our financial situation, less folks in jail decreases gov't spending and puts more people into the workforce/economy, lives will be saved on both sides of the border. The folks who want to smoke weed will still do it, those that don't won't. I don't believe there will be any statistically verifiable difference in overall U.S. health.

Re: War on Drugs Cant Be Won, According to Global Leaders
 

[quote=NC_Skins;805486]About as stupid as the "War on Terrorism" and about as affective too.[/quote]Um....OK. You're right, stopping at least 30 terrorist plots since 9/11 and saving thousands of lives is stupid and ineffective:

[URL]http://s3.amazonaws.com/thf_media/2010/pdf/b2405_figure1_2.pdf[/URL]

- I'd say the U.S. Intel community and NSWDG were pretty damn effective in killing Bin Laden.

- Folks in Afghanistan who were living under Taliban rule don't think the War on Terrorism is stupid.

- I also would imagine the folks in Iraq that had been through Saddam's rape and torture rooms don't think the War of Terrorism is stupid. Pretty sure the Kurds would agree too.

- The War on Terrorism won't be over in our lifetimes. As long as there are Muslim extremists who believe violence is the way to advance their religion and is the way to paradise, and there are Muslim leaders willing to manipulate/exploit them to advance their agendas, we will be a target and it won't be over.

Re: War on Drugs Cant Be Won, According to Global Leaders
 

[quote=Mattyk;805505]So back on topic, is the war on drugs worth it or not? I think it's obviously been proven to be a giant failure, so what's the next step?[/quote]

Not worth it. I mean prohibition didn't work and I see this war on drugs headed in the right direction.

Re: War on Drugs Cant Be Won, According to Global Leaders
 

[quote=Mattyk;805505]So back on topic, is the war on drugs worth it or not? I think it's obviously been proven to be a giant failure, so what's the next step?[/quote]

Just out of curiosity do you mean virtually every part of the "war?" Or just the part that puts users in jail?

Re: War on Drugs Cant Be Won, According to Global Leaders
 

It seems to me that switching from criminalizing to regulating drugs will be a major undertaking in terms of the structural reboot. Laws will need to be changed, policies develeped and regulations written. Then of course their are the funding issues - certain vested interests won't want to "close down" and hand over their jobs to a bunch of bureaucratic regulators.

Part of the problem in "decriminalizing drugs" is that it is one of these things where the devil really is in the details. All of the steps to do so require developing consensus and detailed decision making that would be difficult to attain in the best of times. In the current political atmosphere of combat politics, I am thinking it is downright impossible ("My opponent, JoeShmoe (no relation to JoeRedskin) wants to legalize drugs - your neighbor's house could be a crack house!!!" etc., etc.). It is politically easier to simply maintain the status quo, even if it has some unsatisfactory results.

For all these reasons and for some that have been said before, we are simply never going to "decriminilize drugs". Law enforcement will always be present at some level. In Portugal, usage, possession and aquisition are decriminalized but, apparently, not sale or production. [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portugal_2001_decriminalization_of_drug_use]Portugal 2001 decriminalization of drug use - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/url]
In the Netherlands, it is still a misdeamenor to possess cannabis or produce it for personal use.

I agree the current enforcement system has serious flaws. I just don't know that there is any easy answer to fix it. I think the start may be to allow possesion, in home use (and I mean "in home" - my porch is literally 2 feet away from my neighbors, I don't want him smoking pot while my kids are eating dinner) and production for personal use of cannabis below a certain THC level. I thinks this will unclog some courts and stop creating a class of youths with criminal records. It won't, however, stop the crack heads, cocaine cartels or the Afghani opium trade.

Again, I have no problem with the general concept of not clogging the courts with possession of pot crimes. I think I may even agree to it as far as possession of crack - but not sure on that one. I just don't think "decriminalize it" is the panacea some seem to think it is.

Re: War on Drugs Cant Be Won, According to Global Leaders
 

Nobody said a fix is easy, but the current way is seriously flawed, costly, and ineffective. Something needs to change. Obviously a gradual change is necessary. Start with legalizing weed and go from there. I think that's the route we're slowing heading anyway.

Re: War on Drugs Cant Be Won, According to Global Leaders
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;805530][QUOTE=NC_Skins;805486]About as stupid as the "War on Terrorism" and about as affective too.[/quote]

Um....OK. You're right, stopping at least 30 terrorist plots since 9/11 and saving thousands of lives is stupid and ineffective:

[URL]http://s3.amazonaws.com/thf_media/2010/pdf/b2405_figure1_2.pdf[/URL]

- I'd say the U.S. Intel community and NSWDG were pretty damn effective in killing Bin Laden.

- Folks in Afghanistan who were living under Taliban rule don't think the War on Terrorism is stupid.

- I also would imagine the folks in Iraq that had been through Saddam's rape and torture rooms don't think the War of Terrorism is stupid. Pretty sure the Kurds would agree too.

- The War on Terrorism won't be over in our lifetimes. As long as there are Muslim extremists who believe violence is the way to advance their religion and is the way to paradise, and there are Muslim leaders willing to manipulate/exploit them to advance their agendas, we will be a target and it won't be over.[/QUOTE]

Thank you. The comparison between: (1) the attempt to stop people from voluntarily using mind altering drugs and (2) the attempt to stop people from killing innocent civilians is flawed on so many levels.