Re: New 4th and 15 rule..................
 

[quote=mooby;1220710]First things first, fuck John Mara.

I like the concept, as everybody knows the onside kick is now basically useless. And I agree with everyone else they shouldn't put the ball back in the offense's hands for another play.

So they need to create a new special teams play. But the conflict lies in the fact they are trying to eliminate kickoffs as that is one of the more dangerous parts of the game. So what special teams play can be created that doesn't resemble a kickoff? Idk the answer to that one.[/quote]

60 yard field goal attempt to keep possession.

Re: New 4th and 15 rule..................
 

I have another idea to rise the % of successful onside kicks: make the kickers practice it more. The fact that these guys can kick it from 60 yards but can't consistently make onside kicks is ridiculous. Most of the time it's really off. If it was more accurate, then it'll probably be something like 80% / 20% for each team to recover the ball. Maybe even 70/30.

Re: New 4th and 15 rule..................
 

[quote=FrenchSkin;1220712]I have another idea to rise the % of successful onside kicks: make the kickers practice it more. The fact that these guys can kick it from 60 yards but can't consistently make onside kicks is ridiculous. Most of the time it's really off. If it was more accurate, then it'll probably be something like 80% / 20% for each team to recover the ball. Maybe even 70/30.[/quote]

Interesting. You know what, it seems like every time it looks like a successful onside, it turns out it only traveled 8-9 yards and they turn the ball over. I bet moving the "minimum yards the ball must travel before being touched" to 7 or 8 yards would greatly increase the chances of the kicking team recovering.

Re: New 4th and 15 rule..................
 

[QUOTE=Skinsfanatic;1220713]Interesting. You know what, it seems like every time it looks like a successful onside, it turns out it only traveled 8-9 yards and they turn the ball over. I bet moving the "minimum yards the ball must travel before being touched" to 7 or 8 yards would greatly increase the chances of the kicking team recovering.[/QUOTE]

Wow!

Honestly that is the Best Idea I have heard so far!

Not only would reducing the recovery yards increase the chances of the kicking team recovering, but I honestly think that it would lessen the chance of injuries since there is less room for the players to get up speed and hit with force.

Sent from my SM-N920P using Tapatalk

Re: New 4th and 15 rule..................
 

[quote=Skinsfanatic;1220713]Interesting. You know what, it seems like every time it looks like a successful onside, it turns out it only traveled 8-9 yards and they turn the ball over. I bet moving the "minimum yards the ball must travel before being touched" to 7 or 8 yards would greatly increase the chances of the kicking team recovering.[/quote]

You may very well have a very good point.

But at what point "it seems like every time it looks like a successful onside, it turns out it only traveled 8-9 yards and they turn the ball over" is caused by the fact that the receiving team doesn't try to recover the ball before it travels 10 yards because if they touch it it becomes available for both teams ? If that's the case, moving it to 8 yards wouldn't change much.
But maybe a couple of yards would indeed make it a tad more easy on kickers.

Re: New 4th and 15 rule..................
 

The idea has merit. But when I think about the last ten years of rule changes that grossly give preference to the offense, I do not like it. Call me old fashioned. But the rules committee has spent the last decade making it harder on defenders to defend and easier on offenses to move the ball.

4th and 15, it is easier for the offense to either convert, or, get a PI call then it is for a defense to stop them.

Re: New 4th and 15 rule..................
 

[quote=sandtrapjack;1220727]The idea has merit. But when I think about the last ten years of rule changes that grossly give preference to the offense, I do not like it. Call me old fashioned. [B]But the rules committee has spent the last decade making it harder on defenders to defend and easier on offenses to move the ball.
[/B]
4th and 15, it is easier for the offense to either convert, or, get a PI call then it is for a defense to stop them.[/quote]

It was been a lot longer than the last decade, more like the last 40+ years. The head slap was outlawed in 1977 in that same year they also started progressively letting offensive lineman use their hands more.

Re: New 4th and 15 rule..................
 

[quote=Buffalo Bob;1220728]It was been a lot longer than the last decade, more like the last 40+ years. The head slap was outlawed in 1977 in that same year they also started progressively letting offensive lineman use their hands more.[/quote]

Yeah man, I remember. Who was it that 'vilified' the head-slap? I think it was Deacon Jones maybe? Good times.

Re: New 4th and 15 rule..................
 

[quote=Buffalo Bob;1220728]It was been a lot longer than the last decade, more like the last 40+ years. The head slap was outlawed in 1977 in that same year they also started progressively letting offensive lineman use their hands more.[/quote]



[quote=sandtrapjack;1220729]Yeah man, I remember. Who was it that 'vilified' the head-slap? I think it was Deacon Jones maybe? Good times.[/quote]

That was Deacon Jones. I think he also coined the term "sack." I remember the rule changes in that era well as I was playing High School football and a lot of their rules followed the pros. Pre 1977 were great times to play defense, you could beat an O-lineman in the head and he could not extend his arms to defend himself or he would get flagged for illegal use of hands.

Re: New 4th and 15 rule..................
 

[quote=Buffalo Bob;1220730]That was Deacon Jones. I think he also coined the term "sack." I remember the rule changes in that era well as I was playing High School football and a lot of their rules followed the pros. Pre 1977 were great times to play defense, you could beat an O-lineman in the head and he could not extend his arms to defend himself or he would get flagged for illegal use of hands.[/quote]

I loved it, I was very good at it in High School and College.

Re: New 4th and 15 rule..................
 

[quote=FrenchSkin;1220719]You may very well have a very good point.

But at what point "it seems like every time it looks like a successful onside, it turns out it only traveled 8-9 yards and they turn the ball over" is caused by the fact that the receiving team doesn't try to recover the ball before it travels 10 yards because if they touch it it becomes available for both teams ? If that's the case, moving it to 8 yards wouldn't change much.
But maybe a couple of yards would indeed make it a tad more easy on kickers.[/quote]

I think that´s the reason.

If you want to increase onside kick recovery chances maybe stick to the ten yards but force the receiving team to be 15 yards back at the start of the play. But then you´re back at people meeting head on with a lot of speed.

Re: New 4th and 15 rule..................
 

I can see it now team gets a PI call resulting in a TD .. they need another TD to win game with 30 seconds to go . They use the new 4/15 rule get another PI and go on to win game.. until they review PI (saints got screwed) then nothing really has changed.. all calls are judgement calls and PI is the most critical call on field .. FIX IT

Re: New 4th and 15 rule..................
 

[quote=rocnrik;1220754]I can see it now team gets a PI call resulting in a TD .. they need another TD to win game with 30 seconds to go . They use the new 4/15 rule get another PI and go on to win game.. until they review PI (saints got screwed) then nothing really has changed.. all calls are judgement calls and PI is the most critical call on field .. FIX IT[/quote]

Looks like PI calls can now be reviewed.

Re: New 4th and 15 rule..................
 

I like the thought of shortening the yard to 7-8 but by the time they get done reviewing each and every onside attempt to make sure that it went the proper distance. The game would drag on forever. I don’t see them adding another line on the field so how would one even ensure on replays that it went the distance. It would slow down the pace of the game too much towards the end. I just can’t see making it efficient from a verification standpoint. Regardless of what the refs decide. Your going to have fans of the losing side saying it was the opposite. And we have a whole new Dez catch scenario that just keeps compounding.

Re: New 4th and 15 rule..................
 

Why is any team that just scored entitled to get the ball back through some kind of gimmick? This is video game thinking, not football. You’re supposed to play football for 60 minutes and the team that’s ahead wins.

If you want a gimmick that is as random as a 4th and 15 rule, make it a good one: Hand to hand combat on the 50 yard line between either the kicker or the punter of the scoring team and any player chosen by the team that’s ahead. Winner gets the ball on the 20.