Re: Gibbs needs help
 

This guy actually asked for Norv Turner back?

Why don't you just ask for Jimmy Johnson.

That makes me sick. There will never be another Cowboy on the coaching staff, period.

Re: Gibbs needs help
 

[QUOTE=Grim21Reaper]This guy actually asked for Norv Turner back?

Why don't you just ask for Jimmy Johnson.

That makes me sick. There will never be another Cowboy on the coaching staff, period.[/QUOTE]Who cares whether or not someone coached for the Cowboys?

Hell, I'd shine Jerry Jones' shoes myself if it meant the Redskins winning another Superbowl.

Re: Gibbs needs help
 

Why don't you tell that to Doc Walker.

Obviously you aren't a real fan.

Re: Gibbs needs help
 

[QUOTE=SC Skins Fan]Did Clinton Portis have 1,500 yds this year? Oh I must have misread those numbers because having those sort of stats would be impossible in such an anachronistic offensive scheme. Also, the so-called West Coast offense is built upon short passes not a vertical passing game and as someone else pointed out Norv Turner does not run a West Coast scheme (was there a more inept offense with more talent than the Raiders this year, by the way). Why don't you go pick up Football for Dummies before you make more foolish posts. Oh, and Musgrave was a quarterbacks coach he wasn't up in the booth calling plays, if you really really need someone to kick after a loss (clearly you are a fairweather type) then I'm not sure Bill should be the #1 target.[/QUOTE]


See dummy? We DID GO GET AN OFFENSIVE COORDINATOR. LOOK WHO FEELS DUMB NOW DUMMY. Keep talkin shit. Fairweather I am not. I've been a diehard fan since I was old enough to know what a football was. Thanks.

Re: Gibbs needs help
 

[QUOTE=wolfeskins]while i don't put all our offensive problems on joe gibbs, i must say he still needs to open it up a bit more. he opened it up this year compared to last but not quite enough. having another dependable wr could help out big time though. i guess he couldn't do but so much having only portis, cooley and moss.[/QUOTE]


We did open it up more, but you do gotta understand halfway through the season, teams were studying Santana Moss in the videorooms, and had all the plays and everything called. It was very hard to get single man-man defense on Santana, so it was hard for him to get open. They all shut him down pretty good after that Dallas game. Hard to open it up when you have two safeties and a CB on Santana Moss, suffocating him. Cooley isn't that fast, but he has JUST enough to get into the secondary, past the linebackers. Weapons are precious. Once a team nabs your style, you gotta do other things just to get it done.

Re: Gibbs needs help
 

[QUOTE=CooleyFan]We did open it up more, but you do gotta understand halfway through the season, teams were studying Santana Moss in the videorooms, and had all the plays and everything called. It was very hard to get single man-man defense on Santana, so it was hard for him to get open. They all shut him down pretty good after that Dallas game. Hard to open it up when you have two safeties and a CB on Santana Moss, suffocating him. Cooley isn't that fast, but he has JUST enough to get into the secondary, past the linebackers. Weapons are precious. Once a team nabs your style, you gotta do other things just to get it done.[/QUOTE]



yea, i agree with you. read what i said in post #24, it sums up my feelings better than my other quote that you used.

Re: Gibbs needs help
 

Let's just not forget what I said... 2 weeks before it happened. GIBBS NEEDS AN OFFENSIVE COORDINATOR, RIGHT? WHAT HAPPENED? Who started this thread? Whats the title of this thread? When's the date of the first post? I'm the foolish fairweather fan, right? Gibbs de-throned himself, and gave up the offense just to bring this franchise back to glory. If I'm fairweather, so is Gibbs. Thanks. I'll be here all week.

Re: Gibbs needs help
 

[QUOTE=CooleyFan]Let's just not forget what I said... 2 weeks before it happened. GIBBS NEEDS AN OFFENSIVE COORDINATOR, RIGHT? WHAT HAPPENED? Who started this thread? Whats the title of this thread? When's the date of the first post? I'm the foolish fairweather fan, right? Gibbs de-throned himself, and gave up the offense just to bring this franchise back to glory. If I'm fairweather, so is Gibbs. Thanks. I'll be here all week.[/QUOTE]

Thing is your original post was a little off base.

We weren't running a west coast offense this year, Norv Turner isn't a west coast guy, and neither is Saunders. Other than that you're right on. ;)

And I don't think Gibbs' age has anything to do with it, Saunders basically comes from the same school of thought that Gibbs does. Gibbs' offensive philosophies and schemes are alive and well across the league with several different teams. His brand of football works. By bringing in Saunders I think Gibbs is just looking for that extra edge to get this team over the hump, when you have the opportunity to go out and get one of the best offensive minds in football you'd have to be crazy or an egomaniac not to.

Re: Gibbs needs help
 

Looks like Joe Gibbs agreed with CooleyFan.

Re: Gibbs needs help
 

[QUOTE=Beemnseven]Looks like Joe Gibbs agreed with CooleyFan.[/QUOTE]

Luckily Joe Gibbs is a lot more likeable than CooleyFan.

Re: Gibbs needs help
 

[QUOTE=CooleyFan]Let's just not forget what I said... 2 weeks before it happened. GIBBS NEEDS AN OFFENSIVE COORDINATOR, RIGHT? WHAT HAPPENED? Who started this thread? Whats the title of this thread? When's the date of the first post? I'm the foolish fairweather fan, right? Gibbs de-throned himself, and gave up the offense just to bring this franchise back to glory. If I'm fairweather, so is Gibbs. Thanks. I'll be here all week.[/QUOTE]

Nice guess! However, what is up with this West Cost offense thing?

Re: Gibbs needs help
 

[QUOTE=skinsguy]Nice guess! However, what is up with this West Cost offense thing?[/QUOTE]


The whole "West Coast" offense thing is thoroughly confusing, even for football fans who pay attention. I, myself didn't fully understand exactly which offense it was -- Bill Walsh's in San Fransisco? Or Don Coryell's in San Diego? Anyway, it was an old article by Dr. Z in SI that TAFKAS linked to that finally explained it.

Everyone thinks of it today as short passing, slants, halfback and fullback lined up close together in the backfield, blah, blah, blah ... we all associate it with what Joe Montana and Steve Young ran with the 49ers, and the long line of coaches who studied under Walsh that followed it -- Mike Holmgren, Mike Shanahan, Jon Gruden, and Andy Reid.

In fact, the [B][I]real[/I][/B] "West Coast" offense was originally the very same offensive scheme that Joe Gibbs, Norv Turner, Ernie Zampese, Mike Martz all run today who followed Don Coryell while he coached the Chargers before Bill Walsh ever coached at San Fran. According to the article, when Bill Walsh first heard the term, "West Coast", he didn't care for it, because he picked it up under Paul Brown in Cincinnati.

So CooleyFan, yet again, is actually correct in referring Norv Turner's attack as "West Coast" offense, at least in its original and literal sense.

Re: Gibbs needs help
 

[QUOTE=Beemnseven]So CooleyFan, yet again, is actually correct in referring Norv Turner's attack as "West Coast" offense, at least in its original and literal sense.[/QUOTE]

Yes but he's being a total douche.

Re: Gibbs needs help
 

yeah, david patten isnt cuttin it, we need someone to free up santana moss a little more. cooley has showed great hands but that is sad when your tight end is 2nd on your team with recieving yards, and your running back is 3rd.

Re: Gibbs needs help
 

Seems like Patten freed up Moss just fine when Moss was on pace to break the single-season receiving record.

Re: Gibbs needs help
 

When someone says 'West Coast', sorry but Norv Turner doesn't come to mind, neither does Gibbs. I think Walsh, Holmgren, Reid, Mariucci, etc.

If we want to be technical about it and trace the roots and all that crap fine, but I doubt that's what the original post was referring to.

Re: Gibbs needs help
 

[QUOTE=Gibbs is God]yeah, david patten isnt cuttin it, we need someone to free up santana moss a little more. cooley has showed great hands but that is sad when your tight end is 2nd on your team with recieving yards, and your running back is 3rd.[/QUOTE]

Sad when your TE is 2nd in yards?

How about guys like Gates, Gonzalez, Witten, etc.?

If you have a talented TE there's nothing wrong with feeding him the ball, but we do need more of a threat from the #2 WR so defenses can't focus on Moss and Cooley as much.

Re: Gibbs needs help
 

[QUOTE=Beemnseven]The whole "West Coast" offense thing is thoroughly confusing, even for football fans who pay attention. I, myself didn't fully understand exactly which offense it was -- Bill Walsh's in San Fransisco? Or Don Coryell's in San Diego? Anyway, it was an old article by Dr. Z in SI that TAFKAS linked to that finally explained it.

Everyone thinks of it today as short passing, slants, halfback and fullback lined up close together in the backfield, blah, blah, blah ... we all associate it with what Joe Montana and Steve Young ran with the 49ers, and the long line of coaches who studied under Walsh that followed it -- Mike Holmgren, Mike Shanahan, Jon Gruden, and Andy Reid.

In fact, the [B][I]real[/I][/B] "West Coast" offense was originally the very same offensive scheme that Joe Gibbs, Norv Turner, Ernie Zampese, Mike Martz all run today who followed Don Coryell while he coached the Chargers before Bill Walsh ever coached at San Fran. According to the article, when Bill Walsh first heard the term, "West Coast", he didn't care for it, because he picked it up under Paul Brown in Cincinnati.

So CooleyFan, yet again, is actually correct in referring Norv Turner's attack as "West Coast" offense, at least in its original and literal sense.[/QUOTE]

Semantics.

Re: Gibbs needs help
 

[QUOTE=skinsguy]Semantics.[/QUOTE]

Right. So why all the fuss over CooleyFan calling Norval's scheme West Coast?

Re: Gibbs needs help
 

I dont know what the hell u r smokin CooleyFan but Gibbs scheme is working, we DONT need Norv back!!!
how can u doubt the staff (Joe Gibbs, Gregg Williams, Joe Bugel, Don Breaux, and Earnest Byner maybe the best running back's coach in the league) ???
Joe is stubborn with his QB's but im sure Jason Campbell will impress him this offseason. Brunell is old (sorry but someone had to say it) i love the guy but its jason's turn to run this team.

By the Way...doesnt jason Campbell remind you guys of another redskins QB???

Doug Williams!!!

Re: Gibbs needs help
 

[QUOTE=Beemnseven]Right. So why all the fuss over CooleyFan calling Norval's scheme West Coast?[/QUOTE]


In the widely accepted interpretation of what is considered a "West Coast" offense, Norv Turner's offense doesn't exactly fit the bill. His might be a relation to it. It's kind of like the biblical argument of all of us being related to Adam and Eve. All offenses are based off of another offense - except in the case of Steve Spurrier where he made it up as he went along!

Re: Gibbs needs help
 

I don't want Norv back either, but believe it or not, I read somewhere that right before the Raider game, Joe Gibbs commented that he'd been impressed with Turner back when he was with the Rams and probably should have hired him earlier on.

Re: Gibbs needs help
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72]When someone says 'West Coast', sorry but Norv Turner doesn't come to mind, neither does Gibbs. I think Walsh, Holmgren, Reid, Mariucci, etc.

If we want to be technical about it and trace the roots and all that crap fine, but I doubt that's what the original post was referring to.[/QUOTE]

I think it would be helpful to use Matty K's defenition which is the commonly accepted one.

"West Coast" refers to:
Bill Walsh
Sam Wyche
Marty S
Paul Hackett
Mike Holmgren and all of his GB assistants

Furthermore, I propose the term "San Diego Offense" for the Coryell/Gibbs/Zampese movement which would cover Sid Gillman as well since he coached the Chargers in the 60s.

Re: Gibbs needs help
 

[QUOTE=Beemnseven]I don't want Norv back either, but believe it or not, I read somewhere that right before the Raider game, Joe Gibbs commented that he'd been impressed with Turner back when he was with the Rams and probably should have hired him earlier on.[/QUOTE]


I believe I remember watching an interview where Gibbs made the same comment, but he was laughing about it.

Re: Gibbs needs help
 

[QUOTE=Beemnseven]The whole "West Coast" offense thing is thoroughly confusing, even for football fans who pay attention. I, myself didn't fully understand exactly which offense it was -- Bill Walsh's in San Fransisco? Or Don Coryell's in San Diego? Anyway, it was an old article by Dr. Z in SI that TAFKAS linked to that finally explained it.

Everyone thinks of it today as short passing, slants, halfback and fullback lined up close together in the backfield, blah, blah, blah ... we all associate it with what Joe Montana and Steve Young ran with the 49ers, and the long line of coaches who studied under Walsh that followed it -- Mike Holmgren, Mike Shanahan, Jon Gruden, and Andy Reid.

In fact, the [b][i]real[/i][/b] "West Coast" offense was originally the very same offensive scheme that Joe Gibbs, Norv Turner, Ernie Zampese, Mike Martz all run today who followed Don Coryell while he coached the Chargers before Bill Walsh ever coached at San Fran. According to the article, when Bill Walsh first heard the term, "West Coast", he didn't care for it, because he picked it up under Paul Brown in Cincinnati.

So CooleyFan, yet again, is actually correct in referring Norv Turner's attack as "West Coast" offense, at least in its original and literal sense.[/QUOTE]


Thank you. F-off all you haters.

Re: Gibbs needs help
 

[QUOTE=skinsguy]In the widely accepted interpretation of what is considered a "West Coast" offense, Norv Turner's offense doesn't exactly fit the bill. His might be a relation to it. It's kind of like the biblical argument of all of us being related to Adam and Eve. All offenses are based off of another offense - except in the case of Steve Spurrier where he made it up as he went along![/QUOTE]


See this terd backpeddling? You got told by someone other than me, now give it up. You were WRONG.

Re: Gibbs needs help
 

[QUOTE=CooleyFan]Thank you. F-off all you haters.[/QUOTE]

When you said you wanted a West Coast guy like Norv here, were you really thinking of the original West Coast offense. Or were you thinking of the Bill Walsh West Coast offense?

And what did you mean by "Bill Musgrave. West Coast? No!!!" That he doesn't know the West Coast, or the WC doesn't work?

Re: Gibbs needs help
 

[QUOTE=TAFKAS]When you said you wanted a West Coast guy like Norv here, were you really thinking of the original West Coast offense. Or were you thinking of the Bill Walsh West Coast offense?

And what did you mean by "Bill Musgrave. West Coast? No!!!" That he doesn't know the West Coast, or the WC doesn't work?[/QUOTE]


I was just pissed and bashed Bill, and the whole West Coast themed offenses. I thought bringing him in would get Brunell back on track, and perhaps get Joe to modernize to some West Coast schemes. Didn't happen, we stayed with Gibbs offense, and I just needed someone to bash when I saw Alexander jumping up and down clapping like a golf fag, while he's supposed to be slightly concussed. Didn't look concussed, did he?

The reason I was so mad was because I know the reason Shaun Alexander played pussy that game. He thought the Seahawks could ward us off without putting his health on the line. I bet he didn't get a concussion. Either he wanted to stay healthy without getting critisizm, or he was afraid of Sean Taylor.

In conclusion, I bashed Musgrave because I was bitter, and I heard somewhere he was going to be adding his thoughts in the offense because he had such a good chemistry with Brunell. Obviously, now I know he had nothing to do with it, but him being incorporated with Brunell, he was easiest to bash after that loss.

Re: Gibbs needs help
 

[QUOTE=CooleyFan]Now, let me just start this out by saying....


Joe Gibbs has given me a reason to believe in my Redskins once again. Gibby needs help. Musgrave sucks. West Coast? No. The NFL isn't going to be slow enough for the counter tray, or these line pulls anymore. It's a dying breed of offense, and there is no place in football for it anymore. We need to go out in the off season and get an offensive mind to help poor Joe. I love Joe, but I need to say what everyone else is scared to say. He's too old.

I think if we got a good West Coast guy... like (i hate to say it) but ol' Norval Turner, maybe we can establish more of a deep impact. I friggin hate Norv, but he is an offensive mind. Have you guys seen the forlorn looks on ol' Joe's face everytime the offense falters? He can't understand the fast pace game. I know I'm gonna get hate mail, but it needs to be addressed. I know Joe is a genius, and I hope he proves me wrong, but he will NOT take us to a SuperBowl. I hope he proves me wrong.[/QUOTE]
I think hiring Al Saunders and allowing him to call plays is a great move for the Redskins. Gibbs is going to have to convince players to take salary cuts and attract free agents for reasonable prices. He now can operate the team like his NASCAR team, where he oversees everything as CEO. Since Saunders will be calling plays, they will be drawing up the game plans together and Saunders can incorporate his skills from the Chiefs offense which has actually averaged more points than the Colts over the last few years. Gibbs will have a bigger impact with more energy, and we do need another fast RB like Portis to steal in the late round of the draft, but we should be in good shape for a playoff run next year. This is great for Gibbs and the whole staff since Saunders was trained in same UCLA offense, San Diego offense, that Gibbs and he ran with Coryell.....