[QUOTE=Teemotay]C) And this one, I must admit, I'm not really "in the know" about.....but from what I've heard, Portis is a young kid with a huge chip on his shoulder. Several of his former prisonmates/teammates (at Miami, I'm not sure which term they use ;-) have expressed some displeasure with Portis' attitude....namely Willis McGahee & Jeremy Shockey.[/QUOTE]

Somehow, not getting Shockey vote of approval raises Portis in my estimation.

Does Portis have an attitude? Sure seems like it, but he's walked the walk. 1591 and 14 TD's in thirteen games last year. 1508 and 14 TD as a rookie. A career 5.5 YPC.

His attitude isn't anti-team, it's pro Portis. I've never heard him say he wants to make more than Plummer, or Smith, or whoever - he wants to make more. I have to assume the Redskins are willing to address his desires if they'll make this deal.

there is one more scenario that seems to have slipped through the cracks, namely the Skins are using this time to determine Champ's market value and then adjust their offer accordingly.

While I'm in favor of trading Champ for Portis, the inclusion of a 2nd round pick is a bit much. Portis is a stud, no doubt, but Champ Bailey is no slouch. He's been to 4 Pro Bowls for a reason, and somebody is going to let him touch the ball on offense and special teams and see how special of a player he really is.

I'd love to have Portis in the backfield next season, Michael Wilbon in the washingtonpost says that it's easier to find a franchise back than a shutdown corner. Need proof, Stephen Davis 4th round pick, Priest Holmes undrafted and even Clinton Portis, 2nd round pick. I'd much rather keep Champ and try to find a back in the draft with our 2nd round pick. But I like Redskins, not imports.

Keep in mind that Portis faced The Raiders (worst Rushing D in the entire NFL), the Chiefs (3rd worst Rushing D in the NFL) and the Chargers (one better than the Skins as far as rushing D.....and we all know how poorly the Skins did against the run) twice a year. I'm sure there's the old "chicken/egg" question too.....did he post great #s because he went against crummy rush D's, or did those teams have such poor stats due to facing a stud RB twice a year. Of course, all of those teams had to face LT & Priest Holmes twice a year too, so there are tons of questions to be answered. I will say that against Baltimore and New England, Portis put up a mere 86 yards and 111 yards respectively.

86 yards against the Ravens and 111 yards against the Pats ain't bad at all.

I love Champ, but Postis is just what Coach Gibbs wants running his ground attack!

When you consider that the "strong" combination of Marcel Shipp & Jeff Blake in Arizona rushed for more than that against the Ravens, I'd say that it ain't all that great either. Portis is being made out to be the next Walter Payton after only 2 years (versus perhaps the worst Rush D division in the league). To me, that's not worth Champ Bailey & a 2nd rounder.

Middle of last season the argument was "best back: Portis, Holmes, or Lewis?"
If you have a chance to get any player discussed in that argument, essentially for a player that already plans on skipping out, for less money (initially) I think it's a no-brainer.

As soon as we start breaking down how he did against specific teams, then i think we're just looking for weaknesses. But the facts and figures all point to Portis being a top 3 back for most of his career.

I'm not cool w/ handing over the 2nd round pick either, but in my opinion this is another example of Shanahan's arrogance, presupposing that anyone can take Portis' place, and basically punishing Portis for wanting to secure his future NOW, after 2 1500 yd seasons when he was making nothing (by NFL standards).
I've never liked Shanahan. He's the Teflon coach. He gets too much credit for Denver's success, and too little blame for their failures. Take him to the cleaners on this one. Letting Portis go is 100% foolish.

2 seasons is hardly a career. He's done VERY well in those 2 years, but against very poor rush defenses. If he's as good as he thinks he is, however, then I say sign him up to a contract that is incentive laden. He'd undoubtedly be the starter, and would get the carries, so I say, give him big time bonuses for TDs and 1500+ rushing yards. Again, if he's as good as he (and many of you) say he is, those accomplishments (and the bonuses) should be easy to attain. My guess is that he's too cocky to accept something like that....he wants guaranteed big $$$. As a long time Skins fan who's been burned time and time again, I'm a bit skeptical about how "great" of a steal this would be.

[QUOTE=Teemotay]2 seasons is hardly a career. He's done VERY well in those 2 years, but against very poor rush defenses. If he's as good as he thinks he is, however, then I say sign him up to a contract that is incentive laden. He'd undoubtedly be the starter, and would get the carries, so I say, give him big time bonuses for TDs and 1500+ rushing yards. Again, if he's as good as he (and many of you) say he is, those accomplishments (and the bonuses) should be easy to attain. My guess is that he's too cocky to accept something like that....he wants guaranteed big $$$. As a long time Skins fan who's been burned time and time again, I'm a bit skeptical about how "great" of a steal this would be.[/QUOTE]

3000 yards [U]is[/U] a career - for any back on our roster. As for Portis (or any player wanting guaranteed dollars, "duh". Is Coles's contract an impediment to his ability? He certainly got a guarantee in the form of his signing bonus - something we should certainly expect here, as well. If this trade happens, expect a similar deal to Laveraneus (7yrs/$35mil/$13mil bonus). It will put Portis in the elite, where he wants to be.

Portis right now is one of the top 5 best backs in the NFL and is only just getting started. I would pull the trigger on this deal in a second.

Get him. period.

He's young, talented, and wants to win.

I think a lot are missing the big picture here...

Let's say that the deal is done...Portis for Bailey and 2nd Rounder. Ok, so we have a stud RB...however, we have a huge hold in our secondary. You can't draft Sean Taylor at #5 now because he doesn't play Corner, and still have a need on the DLine. This could have easily been Stephen Jackson or Kevin Jones...

Look at the UFA CBs that are any good...Antoine Winfield, Terrell Buckley, Chris McAllister, Charles Woodson, Mario Edwards, Bobby Taylor, Troy Vincent, Juran Bolden, Fred Thomas, Ahmed Plummer, Shawn Springs. Ok, most of these guys are going back to their teams with new deals. However, the only CBs that would be able to hold Champ's jock are Taylor and Vincent...and one of them will resign with the Eagles. Woodson and Springs are head cases, McAllister will probably go back to the Ravens...and the rest would be a significant downgrade to Bailey.

I understand that Champ is as good as gone...but make a case to assure that you get someone of quality to replace him. Unless one of these UFAs are talking to the Skins, the Skins shouldn't be so ready to deal Bailey outta here.

The Jets deal is better than most of you think...if Bailey's gone anyways, what does it matter who we get for him, as long as it's quality.

Ellis is a very respectible DE. He's a pass rusher (something we need). Jordan is a major upgrade from Betts. He's been behind Curtis Martin, and the Jets O-Line was terrible last year (i wonder why)... Anthony Becht may or may not be worth a 2nd round pick, but is a solid TE, who catches and blocks. Jordan might be older, but would be a decent back.

However, with any deal, we still need to replace Bailey. Losing that 2nd round pick makes our draft pretty much non-existant...watch for the Skins to fall from the #5 to pick up other picks.

But remember that, assuming they bolster the D-line so we actually have a pass rush, we don't need a CB of Champ's caliber. Also, yes Taylor is not a CB, but drafting him would definitely bring the secondary as a whole back up to a very strong level, even with an average CB replacing Champ.

[COLOR=Navy]i heard just a few secs ago on espn news,that the new york football jets are offering up 3 players for champ.anDL named ellis,and 2 others.but apparently the skins want more.[/COLOR]

Ya the 3 guys they mentioned are Ellis, Becht and Lamont Jordan.

Just saw on ESPN that it's pretty much a done deal. Both teams have to rework new contracts for Portis and Bailey but they believe it will happen. They said the Skins are getting the short end of the stick in the trade but Bailey wasn't going to come back anyway so they are gettin the best deal they can to get rid of Champ. Damn!!! I just got my daughter a Champ throwback jersey for her birthday. Maybe a Lavar jersey now, at least he should be around for awhile.
Glad to have the Warpath back again. I was getting worried, and bored stiff checking out the other sites. This one is Numero Uno!!!!!!!!!!

[FONT=Book Antiqua]i just saw where fatass peter king is gonna be on pti.i hope tony and wilburn fry his overweight ugly a$$.[/FONT] :mad:

Maybe I'm just delusional with excitement over Portis, but I think this is an incredible deal for the Skins.. They are getting someone who will be a top 5-10 back for the next 5-8 years (barring injury of course).. Granted they are giving up one of the top 3 CB in the league, but who impacts the game more every Sunday? The RB gets 20-25 touches a game, a CB is involved in 7-8 plays on a busy day.. It's going to be hard for someone to convince me that a secondary of Bailey, Smoot, Ohalete and Bowen is better than Smoot, Springs or Winfield, Ohalete and Sean Taylor (who they'll draft at 5). Remember the impact Roy Williams of the (ugh) Cowboys had his first year, we should, he scored 2 TD on us! I would like for us to still have the 2nd round pick, but if that's what it takes then that's what it takes. We didn't play anyone with elite receivers in the division anyway so it's not like we need a shutdown corner 8 games a year. If we were in the Rams division, then it'd be more of a premium.. Cowboys-ball control, Eagles-west coast ball control, Giants-ball control under Coughlin.. A couple Snyder special signings and we should be good to go!

[QUOTE=BDBohnzie]I think a lot are missing the big picture here...

Let's say that the deal is done...Portis for Bailey and 2nd Rounder. Ok, so we have a stud RB...however, we have a huge hold in our secondary. You can't draft Sean Taylor at #5 now because he doesn't play Corner, and still have a need on the DLine. This could have easily been Stephen Jackson or Kevin Jones...

Look at the UFA CBs that are any good...Antoine Winfield, Terrell Buckley, Chris McAllister, Charles Woodson, Mario Edwards, Bobby Taylor, Troy Vincent, Juran Bolden, Fred Thomas, Ahmed Plummer, Shawn Springs. Ok, most of these guys are going back to their teams with new deals. However, the only CBs that would be able to hold Champ's jock are Taylor and Vincent...and one of them will resign with the Eagles. Woodson and Springs are head cases, McAllister will probably go back to the Ravens...and the rest would be a significant downgrade to Bailey.

I understand that Champ is as good as gone...but make a case to assure that you get someone of quality to replace him. Unless one of these UFAs are talking to the Skins, the Skins shouldn't be so ready to deal Bailey outta here.

The Jets deal is better than most of you think...if Bailey's gone anyways, what does it matter who we get for him, as long as it's quality.

Ellis is a very respectible DE. He's a pass rusher (something we need). Jordan is a major upgrade from Betts. He's been behind Curtis Martin, and the Jets O-Line was terrible last year (i wonder why)... Anthony Becht may or may not be worth a 2nd round pick, but is a solid TE, who catches and blocks. Jordan might be older, but would be a decent back.

However, with any deal, we still need to replace Bailey. Losing that 2nd round pick makes our draft pretty much non-existant...watch for the Skins to fall from the #5 to pick up other picks.[/QUOTE]


Well said Bohnzie. Too few people on this board aren't looking at the big picture. A trade for Portis fills one need, and creates another...so that's a wash. It also does little to help with Cap relief. Gibbs is known for getting the most out of all of his players. He's been very highly respected by his players, and they go to bat for him. There are very few of his former players who'll make it into the hall of fame, and that's because he didn't believe in basing his game plan around one or 2 allstars.

As for Coles' contract, it's a done deal, and we'll have to live with it. That doesn't mean we should do it again!! Deion Sanders wanted to be paid up front too, and look where that got us. Those who think the Skins can afford to pay him big $$$ (in addition to already paying Arrington, Coles, Samuels, Brunnell and perhaps in a year or two Ramsey) must know something that I don't. Is the salary cap projected to go above 100 million in the next couple of years??

I'd still go with the Jets offer over Portis. Lamont Jordan runs a 4.29 40 and has Jamal Lewis size. Becht is a good (not great) TE, and like Jordan, can't really command the big bucks. Ellis, on the other hand would be a HUGE bolster to our D Line. Portis just isn't worth it unless Denver is willing to do an even swap for Bailey alone.....or if they "sweeten the pot" a bit.

[QUOTE=Teemotay]
I'd still go with the Jets offer over Portis. Lamont Jordan runs a 4.29 40 and has Jamal Lewis size. Becht is a good (not great) TE, and like Jordan, can't really command the big bucks. Ellis, on the other hand would be a HUGE bolster to our D Line. Portis just isn't worth it unless Denver is willing to do an even swap for Bailey alone.....or if they "sweeten the pot" a bit.[/QUOTE]

I don't think Jordan runs a 4.29 30 yard dash, dude is slow.. Plus, all the guys the Jets offered are in the final year of their contract so we'd be renting all of them or having to pay a WHOLE lot more money out to re-sign them..

[QUOTE=Paintrain]I don't think Jordan runs a 4.29 30 yard dash, dude is slow.. Plus, all the guys the Jets offered are in the final year of their contract so we'd be renting all of them or having to pay a WHOLE lot more money out to re-sign them..[/QUOTE]

My bad, 4.57 40, and I'd bet dollars to donuts that we'd be able to sign all 3 of them for less than what we'd sign Portis for.

Good points BD. Ellis is a strong player, but jordan and Becht are toss-aways in that deal. Tell the Jets to keep them both and throw in their 1st rounder instead for Bailey. Then we gots a trade.

The Portis deal just looks like the best offer right now. I'm aware of the gap Champ will leave in the secondary but Gibbs has got to know it too. If we don't go after a FA CB then yeah, our secondary will get embarassed all season, with or without STaylor.
If we don't trade down, I'd still love to see Taylor teamed up w/ Arrington! both are punishing defenders

I dont know, I like Portis, alot, but the second rounder thing just leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

The key to the Bailey/Portis deal is what it takes to sign Portis to an extension. If that is a burdensome contract, then this is not a good deal.

Can everyone here use this situation as an example of why you should not get carried away with the idea of the "franchise tag"? For the last couple of months, everyone was sure that putting that tag on Champ meant getting two first round picks for him. When I reminded people that Trotter was the Eagles' franchise player and he came here for no compensation at all, that did not dampen the enthusiasm. NOtice that two first rounders are not coming here. In fact, dealing away the "franchise player" will cost a 2nd round pick to get the deal done because the Broncos know that the Skins want the burden of Champ Bailey's contract off their shoulders.

Champ's franchise tag is a salary cap burden. Yes, it prevented him from going out and getting offers and just signing them and telling the Skins to suck eggs. But he will count as a $6.8M player against the cap as soon as the new "cap year" starts. That hinders the signing of free agents; and if the Redskins do not sign some solid (not spectacular big names but solid) free agents on the defensive line, they aren't going to do any better than 8-8 next year. I don't care who you have at linebacker and safety, if there isn't a 200% upgrade on the DL, they'll be making most of their tackles at a minimum of 5 yards downfield.

this is the same nonesense we did last year we drafted a WR when we had much more pressing needs, can we use another back besides bett's? Yes, but do we need portis? No! We have much more pressing need's, I don't know why everybody is just brushing aside the back's we have? they can't be judged over the last 2 year's under Spurrier, remember davis couldn't get it done under spurrier, bett's will prove to be a good back, and the fact is RB may prove to be one of the least important pieces you need to win a super bowl, antwain smith has 2 ring's, and the back in tampa has 1, good blocking will move the ball on the ground everytime, I don't care who's the RB is, I say let denver keep portis, get a #1 for champ then we can deal away and still come away with a RB and D help, hurricane player's are saying that jones is the best back in college no questions asked, we could get him in the middle if not late in the first, and we would still have our second rd. pick to grab a D-tackle, as well as grab taylor with the #5 and have a much better cap situation.

The guest on PTI made a good point- the second rounder is more than what the skins should have to give up; but considering that they lose bailey anyway, their team is now better with Portis in the backfield. And if the second rounder is what we have to do to get better, I say it's worth it.

Great to be back on the path!

I like the deal. Portis is a true gamebreaker who will thrive in Gibbs' smashmouth offense. He should have no trouble staying with his 1500 yard, 14-15 TD pace.

Champ was a goner anyway, his mind was set to get out of D.C. no matter what. Detroit wasn't dumb enough to part with a first and a second and who can blame them? They have many holes to fill.

Yeah I agree. I dont think its that Detroit didnt think Bailey wasent worth the 1/2, but they needed those picks.

I love Portis and I can see him as a skin next year, however a 2nd rounder you can pick up real talent (hell, Portis was a 2nd rounder). I think getting the best CB in the league for a guy that the Bronco's seem to feel is expendable is more than a fair trade. If anything we better get something else from them if a 2nd pick is involved.

I'm pretty comfortable with the trade. The reality is that there is not going to be any really good way of getting rid of Bailey. The FO already pooched the relationship, and now Gibbs is stuck with trying to clean up the mess. You have to understand that, for the Redskins at least, Champ is now more of a liability than an asset. The teams that we are trying to trade him to certainly understand this. This is unfortunate, but it is the reality that Gibbs has to work with.

So, as I see it, this deal with Denver takes care of two problems at once: it cleans up the Bailey mess that the FO created while also getting us a young, proven, elite running back with incredible potential. It is a shame that we have to give up a 2nd round draft pick to get it done, but IMHO, the pick is worth the two problems that get solved. Sure, it leaves us with another hole in the defense, but that hole already existed, because, although Champ's name might have still been on our roster, there really was never any doubt that he was leaving. In our perfect Redskins' dream world, I'm sure we could all come up with all sorts of scenarios where the Redskins end up with stars at every position, but that's just not reality. The reality is that Champ was a liability to us and everyone else in the league knew it. I've no problem trusting Gibbs' apparent decision that this trade is the best he can do with the cards that were dealt him.

--Phin

Carl Poston suspended by the NFLPA for two years
 

I just heard it on espn radio. That sucks for Julian Peterson and Lavar, they are both still on the free agent market right now.

Re: Carl Poston suspended by the NFLPA for two years
 

[QUOTE=mooby]I just heard it on espn radio. That sucks for Julian Peterson and Lavar, they are both still on the free agent market right now.[/QUOTE]

Did his brother get suspended as well?

Re: Carl Poston suspended by the NFLPA for two years
 

I hate the Postons. They suck as agents. I blame them for at least 1/2 of the bad blood that developed between LaVar and the Skins. Who in their right mind agrees to a contract, and doesn't read the final version before having his client sign? They suck, they're turds, and we are all better off as fans if they never ever ever represent another player again.

Re: Carl Poston suspended by the NFLPA for two years
 

I have no problem with the way the Postons negotiated but I do have a problem with people not doing their job, which was the case with this guy. This can't be the first negligence incident he has had can it? I mean, getting suspended for two years for dropping the ball once seems a little excessive doesn't it?

Re: Carl Poston suspended by the NFLPA for two years
 

[QUOTE=TAFKAS]Did his brother get suspended as well?[/QUOTE]

You know, I mean Carl can just chill while his brother runs the show which doesn't make sense since they are a two man show.

Re: Carl Poston suspended by the NFLPA for two years
 

[QUOTE=saden1]I have no problem with the way the Postons negotiated but I do have a problem with people not doing their job, which was the case with this guy. This can't be the first negligence incident he has had can it? I mean, getting suspended for two years for dropping the ball once seems a little excessive doesn't it?[/QUOTE]

If Im not mistaken, didn't they mismanage Kellen Winslow's deal as well, tying most of his money to performance. Then he gets dumb, gets hurt, and loses big big bucks.

Re: Carl Poston suspended by the NFLPA for two years
 

[QUOTE=saden1]You know, I mean Carl can just chill while his brother runs the show which doesn't make sense since they are a two man show.[/QUOTE]


if they did not nail them both, then it is a joke

Re: Carl Poston suspended by the NFLPA for two years
 

The Postons have been trouble all over the place. It's amazing to me that Lavar has stuck by them after they didn't read the contract they signed.

My guess is that the opertation will keep going even if the brothers are sidelined--kinda like running a crime family from jail. But it should make it harder to get new clients--though they seem to be able to hypnotize folks with big egos like Lavar and the Soldier.

Re: Carl Poston suspended by the NFLPA for two years
 

Is that at least partial vindication for the Redskins FO in the Lavar saga?

Re: Carl Poston suspended by the NFLPA for two years
 

I hope players like woodson and/or Law decided to jump ship so they could become an option for us in the nickle