Re: rooting for Goliath
 

[quote=Huddle]Still, they've had more to cheer about than the fans of 27 or 28 other teams in recent years. That's the success I was referring to.[/quote]

Yeah, but dude get real. The Skins won a Super Bowl in 1991, and then in 1993 suffered one of the worst seasons in team history. Nobody in DC was saying "oh it's OK, we've had plenty to cheer about over the years." It doesn't work that way, you always want to win more. And the Eagles haven't even won one yet.

Re: rooting for Goliath
 

[quote=Schneed10]It's this last sentence that is the key here. The 1.1x and 0.9x makes the assumption that x = the salary cap limit. You're applying a salary constraint to a team that always has capacity, the Eagles don't ever take it up to that limit.

When ample salary capacity exists in your structure, there is no reason why you shouldn't go get the best player possible. Cost should not be an issue for you, you're not up against the cap constraint. So for the Eagles, whether Hutchinson is a bargain or not should not be an issue.

If we're talking about a team up against the salary cap, then player value relative to price has to enter the equation. But money should not be an object in this situation, yet the Eagles refuse to spend it, and it's easy to see why that would be frustrating.[/quote]

I can understand the fans' frustration.

The best strategy for a team is to spend the payroll limit, but to spend it wisely...on players who might be worth more than their market value.

Re: rooting for Goliath
 

I have to say this is a sstupid thread. The Yankies do not have a cap so they can just spend and spend on any player they want. Yes we do go after alot of players in FA but its not that we go after them that makes the Skins look bad. Its the fact that we don't win with all the money and movement we do. When we win the SB people will start saying that our moves are paying off unlike the past and I think the will admire us more for making the moves. The cap gives the impression that every team has a level playing field so the Yankie thing just does not apply.

Re: rooting for Goliath
 

[quote=Huddle]Still, they've had more to cheer about than the fans of 27 or 28 other teams in recent years. That's the success I was referring to.[/quote]

I understand that, but the point of my post was to respond to your comment that: "With the on-field success the Eagles have enjoyed in recent years, their fans have no reason to be unhappy." I think, in fact, they do have a very good reason to be unhappy......and that is: they keep coming up just short of a championship, all the while not utilizing millions upon millions of dollars in available cap room. I would argue that in some respects (at least with regard to their owner and front office), they have more to complain about than us Skins fans.

Re: rooting for Goliath
 

[quote=PSUSkinsFan21]I understand that, but the point of my post was to respond to your comment that: "With the on-field success the Eagles have enjoyed in recent years, their fans have no reason to be unhappy." I think, in fact, they do have a very good reason to be unhappy......and that is: they keep coming up just short of a championship, all the while not utilizing millions upon millions of dollars in available cap room. I would argue that in some respects (at least with regard to their owner and front office), they have more to complain about than us Skins fans.[/quote]

Well, I was responding to your opening: "What success?"...as though there were none. So, we're talking past each other here.

Snyder, in the past, has been willing but not able to buy us a Super Bowl. The Philly organization has been able but not willing.

Re: rooting for Goliath
 

[quote=Huddle]Well, I was responding to your opening: "What success?"...as though there were none. So, we're talking past each other here.

Snyder, in the past, has been willing but not able to buy us a Super Bowl. The Philly organization has been able but not willing.[/quote]

I guess it depends our definition of "success" then, because to me if your goal is a championship and you fail to reach that goal, you haven't succeeded. In any event, I don't think we actually disagree on anything substantive here.

Re: rooting for Goliath
 

[quote=Huddle]Your take on the Eagles sounds like its right on the money to me with the exception of your final point about Hutchinson.

Let's say that X represents the team's payroll limit determined by the salary cap. If you overpay your roster by ten per-cent overall, you end up with a roster with a value of .9X.

If instead, you bargain-hunt for personnel and underpay your roster by ten per-cent overall, you end up with a roster with a value of 1.1X.

I think bargain hunting is the key to building the best roster in this salary cap era. Hutchinson isn't a bargain.

On the other hand, a policy of being continually under the cap doesn't cut it either.[/quote]

you don't mention that only 11 players are on the field at a time, so maxing those 11 (or 22) is more important than value at RB #4, and leaving 25mill unspent means you start at 0.75 instead of 1.00.

Re: rooting for Goliath
 

I think if the skins won a SB, they'd get slurped just like every other SB winner and danny would become a good owner (magically) and a lot of the bashing would turn into "that's just how he works" stuff. Winning fixes everything.

Re: rooting for Goliath
 

That Guy

[QUOTE] you don't mention that only 11 players are on the field at a time, so maxing those 11 (or 22) is more important than value at RB #4, [/QUOTE]

I explained a basic strategy in a couple of sentences. There were lots of lesser points omitted

[QUOTE] ...and leaving 25mill unspent means you start at 0.75 instead of 1.00.[/QUOTE]

I said this: "The best strategy for a team is to spend the payroll limit, but to spend it wisely...on players who might be worth more than their market value."

I think that covers your point but in a different way.

Incidentally, I think this "bargain strategy" applies to the draft as well. One study I saw concluded that the best values in the draft happen between picks 25 to 75. I didn't look at their data but I can understand logically why their conclusion might be valid.

Re: rooting for Goliath
 

[quote]
Quote:
you don't mention that only 11 players are on the field at a time, so maxing those 11 (or 22) is more important than value at RB #4,

I explained a basic strategy in a couple of sentences. There were lots of lesser points omitted[/quote]

please point it out. I see you said its important to spend to the limit after someone else brought it up, but i definately didn't see anything about how talent at starting positions are more important even if it rubs against the price/performance thing a bit.

[quote]
Incidentally, I think this "bargain strategy" applies to the draft as well. One study I saw concluded that the best values in the draft happen between picks 25 to 75. I didn't look at their data but I can understand logically why their conclusion might be valid.[/quote]

if leinhart or bush bust, you're out at least 20million. if pick #30 busts,
you're out less than 5$mill. Starting LBs, RBs, #2/possible #1 CBs, OGs, Cs, FS/SSs, FBs, Ks, Ps, TEs, DTs can all be found easily in the 2nd round.

starting/#1 WRs, QBs, DEs, OTs (especially LTs), solid #1 CBs and stars at other positions are what can't be easily found outside round 1. These positions also tend to earn the most money. sometimes you get lucky and pull a QB in the 6th that turns into a HoF player, but its not that likely.

Re: rooting for Goliath
 

That Guy

[QUOTE]please point it out. I see you said its important to spend to the limit after someone else brought it up, but i definately didn't see anything about how talent at starting positions are more important even if it rubs against the price/performance thing a bit.[/QUOTE]

Did you read my response? How am I supposed to point out something that was omitted (along with dozens of other points less important than the basic strategy)?

As for the spending limit, I made two references to it BEFORE you brought it up as though it had never been discussed.

Re: rooting for Goliath
 

[quote=Huddle]That Guy



Did you read my response? How am I supposed to point out something that was omitted (along with dozens of other points less important than the basic strategy)?

As for the spending limit, I made two references to it BEFORE you brought it up as though it had never been discussed.[/quote] you don't think its important to max out your starters talent? and if someone else brings it up, they should be shot down for it? please don't start this pointless bickering crap again.

and i never said you didn't bring it up before I said something, but you didn't bring it up before [B]someone else[/B] did. You're always on people for twisting your words, so let's not do that.

Re: rooting for Goliath
 

That Guy

[QUOTE]you don't think its important to max out your starters talent? and if someone else brings it up, they should be shot down for it? please don't start this pointless bickering crap again[/QUOTE].

I "shot you down" for asking me to point out something that I had already told you that I had intentionally omitted. Why can't you simply admit that you mis-read my post? It's not a sin.

[QUOTE] and i never said you didn't bring it up before I said something, but you didn't bring it up before [B]someone else[/B] did. You're always on people for twisting your words, so let's not do that.[/QUOTE]

Actually, I DID bring up the spending limit before Schneed mentioned it. In fact, he put the sentence in bold type and quoted me on it. So, you were wrong in your first post on this nitpicky point and wrong again in the one I've quoted here.

Re: rooting for Goliath
 

Spend it danny!!!!:pimp:

Re: rooting for Goliath
 

Every fan in the NFL would want his or her owner to do what Danny is doing. this shit about rooting for goliath is :bs: . every fan does want his team to do whatever it takes to make the TEAM better. Danny does not get outbid for players we want . every fan wishes his owner would or could? do the same.if other owners dont spend the money to get the good players, it shows the fans that they will not do the very most to get the very best talent on their team.every team can do what we do its just that the other owners dont want to spend the cash.

Re: rooting for Goliath
 

[quote=Huddle]That Guy

.

I "shot you down" for asking me to point out something that I had already told you that I had intentionally omitted. Why can't you simply admit that you mis-read my post? It's not a sin.



Actually, I DID bring up the spending limit before Schneed mentioned it. In fact, he put the sentence in bold type and quoted me on it. So, you were wrong in your first post on this nitpicky point and wrong again in the one I've quoted here.[/quote]

first gtrip is the one that mentioned before you edited your post, so you may think thats nitpicking, but it alsso means you were wrong.

and nowhere is it articulated or mentioned that you intentionally omitted anything, nor was that point stated anywhere else. I'm glad no one is allowed to add anything onto anything you say without having you do this retarded shit on them. I most clearly did not mis read your post and you never said anything regarding that point and for some reason you're acting like i insulted your family.

get a life.

Re: rooting for Goliath
 

:angry-smi [quote=That Guy]first gtrip is the one that mentioned before you edited your post, so you may think thats nitpicking, but it alsso means you were wrong.

and nowhere is it articulated or mentioned that you intentionally omitted anything, nor was that point stated anywhere else. I'm glad no one is allowed to add anything onto anything you say without having you do this retarded shit on them. I most clearly did not mis read your post and you never said anything regarding that point and for some reason you're acting like i insulted your family.

get a life.[/quote]

Re: rooting for Goliath
 

[quote=gibbsisgod]:angry-smi[/quote]

yeah, well, i think its ****ing retarded too, but if he's going to start with that point by point bullshit and assume i'm insulting him or that I'm not allowed to post without his permission, he can kiss off.

Re: rooting for Goliath
 

[quote=That Guy]yeah, well, i think its ****ing retarded too, but if he's going to start with that point by point bullshit and assume i'm insulting him or that I'm not allowed to post without his permission, he can kiss off.[/quote]true, very true

Re: rooting for Goliath
 

[quote=gibbsisgod]Every fan in the NFL would want his or her owner to do what Danny is doing. this shit about rooting for goliath is :bs: . every fan does want his team to do whatever it takes to make the TEAM better. Danny does not get outbid for players we want . every fan wishes his owner would or could? do the same.if other owners dont spend the money to get the good players, it shows the fans that they will not do the very most to get the very best talent on their team.every team can do what we do its just that the other owners dont want to spend the cash.[/quote]

I think you're over-simplifying.

It's true that fans wants their owners to do their best to field a winner but I suspect you'd get varying opinions if they were asked whether they wanted their team to emulate the Redskins approach.

Right now New England and Pittsburgh would be the models they'd choose I think.

Re: rooting for Goliath
 

I think Dan Snyder should run for president in 2008! Does anyone know his political affiliation?

Re: rooting for Goliath
 

That Guy

[QUOTE] first gtrip is the one that mentioned [B]before you edited your post,[/B] so you may think thats nitpicking, but it also means you were wrong.[/QUOTE]

Wrong about what?

Now, I think I understand what's going on.

Man, I understand you are bearing a grudge but do you really want to accuse me of lying over such a trivial matter? In Post 38, I wrote to GTripp: [I]I added a line to the post you quoted before I saw yours. Naturally, to maximize the team's roster value, the money has to be spent up to the limit.[/I]

But you think I lied... and only edited my post after reading GTripp's post. That's it isn't it?

If that's what it is, why would you think that? Is that something [I]you[/I] might do in the same position?

[QUOTE] and nowhere is it articulated or mentioned that you intentionally omitted anything, nor was that point stated anywhere else. [/QUOTE]

My Post 49 to you...in response to the point you made: [I]I explained a basic strategy in a couple of sentences. There were lots of lesser points omitted.[/I]


Let's give this up. Shall we?
[FONT=Arial][/FONT]

Re: rooting for Goliath
 

[quote=Huddle]I think you're over-simplifying.

It's true that fans wants their owners to do their best to field a winner but I suspect you'd get varying opinions if they were asked whether they wanted their team to emulate the Redskins approach.

Right now New England and Pittsburgh would be the models they'd choose I think.[/quote]I'm not oversimplifying, im being realistic. Should I be ashamed of The Danny just because he spends like there is no tomorrow? good for him!! atleast the money ends up in the hands of the players.

Re: rooting for Goliath
 

[quote=gibbsisgod]I'm not oversimplifying, im being realistic. Should I be ashamed of The Danny just because he spends like there is no tomorrow? good for him!! atleast the money ends up in the hands of the players.[/quote]

You were over-simplifying when you said this:

"Every fan in the NFL would want his or her owner to do what Danny is doing."

Re: rooting for Goliath
 

[quote=Schneed10]I live in the Philly suburbs, and I think what gets to the fans around here more than anything is that no pro sports team here has won a title since the Phillies in 1980. The town has been teased by the 1983 Phillies, 1993 Phillies, 2001 Sixers, and 2004 Eagles all making it to the finals and losing. They're upset because they get so close to winning it all and then lose it.

PS Nothing is better than tuning into WIP (Philly's sports talk radio station) the day after they lose a title game. Grown men call in and break down in tears over the air. Some sound like they're ready to jump off a building. It's fantastic.[/quote]yes i see that philly has all the wrong pieces in all the wrong places as thou it seemsi can sympathize with the philly thing im in richmond and ive been tellin peeeps for yrrrrsss that the redskins would never do anything ntil jg came outta retirement well see

Re: rooting for Goliath
 

Greetings from Miss Sally.

Today we learn about the playground and the rules for settling disputes.

Rule #1: If you push someone under the merry-go-round, you must make sure that all riders jump off. It's there only for bumps and bruises, not broken bones.

Rule #2: If you are going to play dodge ball, you may only wear a cup over one bean or the other, but not both.

Rule #3: If a dispute is going to be settled with fists, you may only hit your opponent's fists with your nose, mouth or stomach. There will be no pill popping.

Rule #4: There will be no bantam-rooster strutting about the playground. Either get down to business or sit quietly at your desk.

Rule #5: Don't come crying to Miss Sally when your feelings get hurt.

Re: rooting for Goliath
 

Guys dont sweat it. I love being hated by everyone else they are all jealous because we are the next big dynasty on the NFL and t hey know it.

Re: rooting for Goliath
 

[quote=Huddle]That Guy



Wrong about what?

Now, I think I understand what's going on.

Man, I understand you are bearing a grudge but do you really want to accuse me of lying over such a trivial matter? In Post 38, I wrote to GTripp: [I]I added a line to the post you quoted before I saw yours. Naturally, to maximize the team's roster value, the money has to be spent up to the limit.[/I]

But you think I lied... and only edited my post after reading GTripp's post. That's it isn't it?

If that's what it is, why would you think that? Is that something [I]you[/I] might do in the same position?



My Post 49 to you...in response to the point you made: [I]I explained a basic strategy in a couple of sentences. There were lots of lesser points omitted.[/I]


Let's give this up. Shall we?
[/quote]

please tell where exactly you got the idea i said you were lying, cause i sure don't see or remember it?

Yeah, guess what, I made a point (maximize your starters talent, ignore price/performance if you're still under cap when the thift players are gone) that counteracts the whole price/performance over everything else arguement, and regardless of what you thought about it, i think its a valid point and i don't care whether you personally approve of it.

Whether you chose to omit it or not, it wasn't mentioned, and it was a reasonable point, so I don't need the shit treatment everytime i feel like posting.

seriously, maximize talent? like you needed to waste 20 posts to say that? should i scold you for having a post over 2 words now because [b]I[/b] decided to omit everything else, so its somehow illegal for anyone else to bring anything else up, lest i not be as smart as them? Cause that's what this looks like to me.

Re: rooting for Goliath
 

[quote=Huddle]You were over-simplifying when you said this:

"Every fan in the NFL would want his or her owner to do what Danny is doing."[/quote]Again, thats being realistic! You cant tell me that every other fan in the league doesnt want his owner to spend the cash. If any other owner was spending like Danny , you can bet that it would be okay with the fans of that team. look at all the years the Bengals didnt spend the money, the teams sucked year after year.i believe the cinci fans are loving life now that the owner is shelling out some cash to get some players that might actually be good. Now this strategy doesnt always work but i would rather have a front office that buys the best talent then one who looks for the cheapest way to field a team.

Re: rooting for Goliath
 

Huddle, after reading through the rest of this thread I'm compelled to tell you that if I were a moderator (which I'm not of course), I'd be looking for a reason to ban you from the site. At this point you don't seem to be in any violation of the forum guidelines, but you're so aggravating to deal with on this site. You basically don't listen to a single thing said to you on here. That Guy has been making point after point but you don't even seem to acknowledge it. Then you eventually come around to modifying your points, without acknowledging that someone else made that point previously. Furthermore, I've seen huge arguments involving you in other threads where you fervently argue point for point, and yet admit to not reading a number of posts directed at you. It comes across like you're more concerned with winning debates and saving face than with having meaningful and civil discussion.

Now I'm not trying to get you thrown out because as I said, I don't think you're breaking any rules; I'm just trying to say that you are quickly developing a reputation as someone who nobody enjoys talking to. You're very aggravating.

I think you make great points sometimes. And we need disagreements on this site, because it makes for more meaningful discussion. But if one person isn't listening to the viewpoints of other members, or is flat out skipping over posts and continuing to argue a point, it ruins any chance we have at having meaningful discussion. It just results in people talking past one another.

Just thought I'd say my peace on the subject.

Re: rooting for Goliath
 

[quote=Huddle]I think you're over-simplifying.

It's true that fans wants their owners to do their best to field a winner but I suspect you'd get varying opinions if they were asked whether they wanted their team to emulate the Redskins approach.

Right now New England and Pittsburgh would be the models they'd choose I think.[/quote]

Now, I'll assume this can remain a pertinent discussion and make a few comments on this.

The Redskins' approach is not emulated because it hasn't won a championship. But if they win a championship, people might start signing a different tune. Right now, New England and Pittsburgh are emulated because they've been there, done that, and proven that their methods yield titles.

But that doesn't mean the Skins' approach won't win a title.

I totally agree with you when you say the best way to build a team is to max out your cap space and find the best bargains you can for the money you're paying. (I'd also add that you need great coaching, but that's a separate issue from players and I think we'd all agree we have great coaching.) But my main point is how do we know that the Redskins' method of acquiring players recently [B]isn't[/B] unearthing the best bargains?

I think Griffin, Washington, Springs, and Santana Moss have all been very good bargains when considering the price they garnered. The picks of Sean Taylor, Chris Cooley, and Carlos Rogers also seem to be very successful bargains. I think Gibbs and Williams are building quite a track record for finding players that perform up to or beyond their contract values. Who's to say that Carter, Archuleta, Randle-El, and Lloyd won't become similar bargains?

It seems ludicrous to think of those guys as bargains someday, given that we're paying like $10 million in bonuses to each one. But we thought the same thing about Santana Moss last year, he was supposedly no better than a #3 WR who got injured a lot, and now he's a huge bargain as a stud.

Pittsburgh and NE find their bargains through the draft and they are emulated because they won. But that's not to say it's impossible to find bargains in free agency and win. And given that the cap rules are the same for every team, and that every team can spend up to the cap and remain profitable, I see no reason why the Skins have a distinguishable advantage over anyone else.

Re: rooting for Goliath
 

By the way, this has only a very litle bit to do with this thread and I haven't noticed if it was mentioned before but...

On Mike & Mike this morning Mike Greenberg actually said, "The Redskins will have a very good team this year, I think". Golic slightly shook his head in an affirmative manner w/o comment. I was stunned to hear something positive from either one of these guys. Anyway, just thought I'd mention one more quasi-supporter for the 'Skins.

Re: rooting for Goliath
 

In the end I don't think there is any right or wrong way to build a team in the NFL. You can emphasize the draft, you can emphasize free agency, or you can mix the two. It all comes down to finding the right players and not overpaying. You can overpay in the draft by picking Ryan Leaf 2nd overall, or you can overpay in free agency by signing an over-the-hill Deion Sanders. It's safe to say that the more often you overpay for players, the more likely it is you'll suck (duh, really Schneed?).

I think the media has just fallen in love with the Patriots and Steelers because they homegrow their own players by drafting them. And I do think that the media, and fans around the country, are going to continue to hate on the Redskins whether we win or lose. But that hate, in my opinion, is based on actions Snyder has taken in the past. I don't think most people around the country have been paying attention to him, and I don't think they've realized how he's changed. He still spends, but now he spends prudently, buying younger players just entering their primes. He actually defers to his coaches now rather than trying to make decisions himself. But nobody outside of the Beltway is privy to Snyder's development because the national media continues to villify him just out of sheer habit. We'll probably be hated because of Snyder's past. But don't mistake that for us being "a Goliath" like the Yanks. Every other team can spend just like we do, they just don't. We have no unfair advantage, we just have a despised owner.

Re: rooting for Goliath
 

[quote=Schneed10]In the end I don't think there is any right or wrong way to build a team in the NFL. You can emphasize the draft, you can emphasize free agency, or you can mix the two. It all comes down to finding the right players and not overpaying. You can overpay in the draft by picking Ryan Leaf 2nd overall, or you can overpay in free agency by signing an over-the-hill Deion Sanders. It's safe to say that the more often you overpay for players, the more likely it is you'll suck (duh, really Schneed?).

I think the media has just fallen in love with the Patriots and Steelers because they homegrow their own players by drafting them. And I do think that the media, and fans around the country, are going to continue to hate on the Redskins whether we win or lose. But that hate, in my opinion, is based on actions Snyder has taken in the past. I don't think most people around the country have been paying attention to him, and I don't think they've realized how he's changed. He still spends, but now he spends prudently, buying younger players just entering their primes. He actually defers to his coaches now rather than trying to make decisions himself. But nobody outside of the Beltway is privy to Snyder's development because the national media continues to villify him just out of sheer habit. We'll probably be hated because of Snyder's past. But don't mistake that for us being "a Goliath" like the Yanks. Every other team can spend just like we do, they just don't. We have no unfair advantage, we just have a despised owner.[/quote]I totally agree about snyder, if the rest of the league actually paid attention to these past few years instead of just ridiculing him because of his first couple of years they could see that he isnt just some dumb owner with alot of money. he has grown up alot since the deion, bruce smith and jeff george days but the media chooses to dwell on past failures instead of his most recent accomplishments....marcus washington, griffin,moss,and the list goes on...

Re: rooting for Goliath
 

[quote=Schneed10]Huddle, after reading through the rest of this thread I'm compelled to tell you that if I were a moderator (which I'm not of course), I'd be looking for a reason to ban you from the site. At this point you don't seem to be in any violation of the forum guidelines, but you're so aggravating to deal with on this site. You basically don't listen to a single thing said to you on here. That Guy has been making point after point but you don't even seem to acknowledge it. Then you eventually come around to modifying your points, without acknowledging that someone else made that point previously. Furthermore, I've seen huge arguments involving you in other threads where you fervently argue point for point, and yet admit to not reading a number of posts directed at you. It comes across like you're more concerned with winning debates and saving face than with having meaningful and civil discussion.

Now I'm not trying to get you thrown out because as I said, I don't think you're breaking any rules; I'm just trying to say that you are quickly developing a reputation as someone who nobody enjoys talking to. You're very aggravating.

I think you make great points sometimes. And we need disagreements on this site, because it makes for more meaningful discussion. But if one person isn't listening to the viewpoints of other members, or is flat out skipping over posts and continuing to argue a point, it ruins any chance we have at having meaningful discussion. It just results in people talking past one another.

Just thought I'd say my peace on the subject.[/quote]
Will it surprise you if I don't agree?

I am a veteran of some debate boards, politics and religion, where the moderators are very strict. The way you and others make ad hominem attacks here would never be tolerated on those boards.

Since there is no impartial panel on these boards to judge who has won a debate, I've devised my own way.

Strawman arguments are the first sign of frustration. When opponents have to twist my words to come up with arguments, they're all but done.

The next level of growing frustration is the logical fallacy referred to sometimes as Appeal to Popularity: "Everyone here thinks you're wrong." I get a lot of these because I'm self-confident enough to present controversial positions.

In the final stage, losers vent their frustration with the ad hominem fallacy, personal attacks in lieu of arguments. I get a lot of those.

When a poster continually alternates personal attacks with strawman arguments, I ignore their posts. They waste my time.

Your most recent post is nothing more than a belated ad hominem attack which would signal to any impartial mind reading this (if there is one) that you are bearing a grudge. I wonder why?

Re: rooting for Goliath
 

[quote=gibbsisgod]I totally agree about snyder, if the rest of the league actually paid attention to these past few years instead of just ridiculing him because of his first couple of years they could see that he isnt just some dumb owner with alot of money. he has grown up alot since the deion, bruce smith and jeff george days but the media chooses to dwell on past failures instead of his most recent accomplishments....marcus washington, griffin,moss,and the list goes on...[/quote]

At least I know who to read or listen to now. The ones that ignore or are unaware of the changes (for the better) and successes of the redskins are either unprofessional or incompetent. And I choose to be picky and ignore certain articles, especially the analytical/opinionated(sp) articles of these unprofessionals and incompetents.

Re: rooting for Goliath
 

[quote=warriorzpath] And I choose to be picky and ignore certain articles, especially the analytical/opinionated(sp) articles of these unprofessionals and incompetents.[/quote]very well put:food-smil

Re: rooting for Goliath
 

[quote=Huddle]The next level of growing frustration is the logical fallacy referred to sometimes as Appeal to Popularity: "Everyone here thinks you're wrong." I get a lot of these because I'm self-confident enough to present controversial positions.
[/quote]

LOL......priceless.


It couldn't be that you're simply wrong. No....that's just not possible. LOL!

Re: rooting for Goliath
 

If we kicked off annoying members this site would be pretty empty :)

Re: rooting for Goliath
 

[quote=Huddle]
I am a veteran of some debate boards, politics and religion, where the moderators are very strict. The way you and others make ad hominem attacks here would never be tolerated on those boards.
[/quote]

Matty, I'd take this as a shot at you and the other mods. DO YOUR JOB, MAN! :spank: