Re: T.J. Duckett Conspiracy
 

[QUOTE=Longtimefan;227522]Of our twenty two starters on both offense and defense, only five are our very own draft choices. Samuels, Jansen and Dockery on the OL, Rogers, and Taylor in the defensive secondary. Is this really the way you want to build a football team?[/QUOTE]

No its not. All of the recently successful teams keep their draft picks and deveolp their own young hungry player that play hard so they can get a big payday. The skins give away draft picks and sign older free agents that appear to come here looking for a payday after a good contract year with another team. The results of both approaches speak for themselves.

Re: T.J. Duckett Conspiracy
 

ARGH. Guys, it's NOT 2000 ANYMORE. How many times do we have to say that?!?!?!?!?!?!? :doh:

I only use this quote when it's really appropriate, but it feels like I'm taking crazy pills.

Re: T.J. Duckett Conspiracy
 

[QUOTE=irish;227553]No its not. All of the recently successful teams keep their draft picks and deveolp their own young hungry player that play hard so they can get a big payday. The skins give away draft picks and sign older free agents that appear to come here looking for a payday after a good contract year with another team. The results of both approaches speak for themselves.[/QUOTE]



My sentiments exactly. However only in the world of professional sports do you get paid before you work. In the real world I wonder how many employers would go bankrupt using that formula. I have never in my life had a job where I got paid before I worked. I have never had to wonder how teams like Philadelphia and other always wind up with a host of young talent year after year. Thed don't trade all their future away for players just looking for a stellar bonus and payday. Teams that build that way will always be in contention year after year.

Re: T.J. Duckett Conspiracy
 

those teams dont have a hall of famer coaching them. always keep that in your mind. i think a team like Philly took a superior quarterback in mcnabb, and put role players around him. other than Westbrook, their so called skill players suck. the key to any successful team is line play

Re: T.J. Duckett Conspiracy
 

[QUOTE=dmek25;227574]those teams dont have a hall of famer coaching them. always keep that in your mind. i think a team like Philly took a superior quarterback in mcnabb, and put role players around him. other than Westbrook, their so called skill players suck. the key to any successful team is line play[/QUOTE]



We think the point attempting to be made here is the fact that their players are their own, and they repeat the process year after year. Philly has owned the NFC east for the last five years or so with last year being the exception, and that was because McNabb was out injured. When you consider what Philadelphia has spent on FA's the last five years compared to the Redskins, and where they have finished in the standinds each year is night and day. Having a Hall of Fame coach or expensive payroll does not guarantee either winning or success, if that were the case we would be unbeatable. We have witnesed first hand that you do not always get what you pay for

Re: T.J. Duckett Conspiracy
 

[quote=dmek25;227574]those teams dont have a hall of famer coaching them. always keep that in your mind. i think a team like Philly took a superior quarterback in mcnabb, and put role players around him. other than Westbrook, their so called skill players suck. the key to any successful team is line play[/quote]

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that Andy Reid will be in the HOF ... and philly has more than just d mac and westy (on defense at least).

Re: T.J. Duckett Conspiracy
 

[quote=GhettoDogAllStars;227598]I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that Andy Reid will be in the HOF ... and philly has more than just d mac and westy (on defense at least).[/quote]

Philly has owned the East, not because they are any good, but because everybody else in the East sucked. First time any other team had any success (last year), Philly took their rightful place (sewer). And...........Dallas, NY, and the Skins are under-achieveing again this year, and look who's excelling again. It's not a matter that they are good. Sadly, they have not had much competition.

Re: T.J. Duckett Conspiracy
 

[QUOTE=TheMalcolmConnection;227555]ARGH. Guys, it's NOT 2000 ANYMORE. How many times do we have to say that?!?!?!?!?!?!? :doh:

I only use this quote when it's really appropriate, but it feels like I'm taking crazy pills.[/QUOTE]

We still continue to sign overage free agents way past their prime. Andre Carter is like 76, Marcus Washington is actually 53 years old, Randle El 45, Lloyd a young 35, and Portis is I think 100 years old.

I'm ODing on crazy pills TMC

Re: T.J. Duckett Conspiracy
 

[QUOTE=dmek25;227574]those teams dont have a hall of famer coaching them. always keep that in your mind. i think a team like Philly took a superior quarterback in mcnabb, and put role players around him. other than Westbrook, their so called skill players suck. the key to any successful team is line play[/QUOTE]


Plus, keep in mind many in Philly did not consider McNabb a superior QB, as a matter of fact they didn't want the team to draft him, they wanted Ricky Williams instead. They took McNabb, drveloped him, and he has paid dividens for them, and again he was their player. We took Jason Campbell, and instead of developing him the way most teams would have, he's still at square one mainly because of our overwhelming desire to "win now". I could live with a loosing season if it meant we were attempting to develop a QB of the future. The QB is the heart and soul of every team from an offensive standpoint, it would serve us well to start thinking in that direction starting now.

Re: T.J. Duckett Conspiracy
 

[quote=TAFKAS;227602]We still continue to sign overage free agents way past their prime. Andre Carter is like 76, Marcus Washington is actually 53 years old, Randle El 45, Lloyd a young 35, and Portis is I think 100 years old.

I'm ODing on crazy pills TMC[/quote]

Damn, I KNEW I was paying for those bastards social security. Seriously, I want to start taking bets on how long it'll be before media/fans/etc. realize that we're not overpaying for over-the-hill players.

We're just overpaying for young, over-HYPED players! :biggthump

Re: T.J. Duckett Conspiracy
 

[quote=GhettoDogAllStars;227598]I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that Andy Reid will be in the HOF ... and philly has more than just d mac and westy (on defense at least).[/quote]
Don't forget L.J. Smith at TE, he's pretty darn good. That said, let me preface this by saying I hate Philly, but as I stated in my earlier post, I LOVE the way they built their team. I'd venture to guess that 75% of their starters came through the draft. They've taken a page from Gibbs/Beathard philosophy and built significant depth on both the offensive and defensive lines. Their D secondary is tremendous (all 4 coming via the draft). Their only units that don't scare me are the linebackers and the wide receivers, although the receivers looked pretty good against Dallas.

Re: T.J. Duckett Conspiracy
 

[QUOTE=Hog1;227600]Philly has owned the East, not because they are any good, but because everybody else in the East sucked. First time any other team had any success (last year), Philly took their rightful place (sewer). And...........Dallas, NY, and the Skins are under-achieveing again this year, and look who's excelling again. It's not a matter that they are good. Sadly, they have not had much competition.[/QUOTE]


The only reason Philly took a dive last year was because McNabb was injured along with a couple other of their better players, plus the TO debacle. The Eagles and Giants have been the better teams in the NFC east the last few years. Some of the so called experts had the Cowboys winning the division this year. The Redskins didn't even recieve honorable mention.

Re: T.J. Duckett Conspiracy
 

[quote=GhettoDogAllStars;227598]I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that Andy Reid will be in the HOF ... and philly has more than just d mac and westy (on defense at least).[/quote]

You know who Andy Reid is? He's the Danny White of NFL coaches. The HOF is for coaches who win Championships and George Allen. No room for Holmgren look-alikes. Besides, everyone agrees that Donovan is The Greatest so it must have been Reid's lousy coaching that caused them to lose the Big Game EVERY TIME. If Reid is an HOFer, then the blame would lie with Donovan and that would rip the very fabric of space-time. John Madden's head would explode.

I think The T.J. Duckett Conspiracy was the band at my High School Prom.

Re: T.J. Duckett Conspiracy
 

Lets trade moss, portis, and Sean Taylor and pick up some draft picks, Euthinize Brunell, put in Campbell, and plan for the future.... I say try and get as many as three first rounders and a couple of second rounders, then we've got like five new starters to develope into a team around Campbell, and maybe a Heath Schuler to back him up....or maybe we could remeber that the team has taken some kids from late rounds and made them into good football players...Golston for example....its still too early to tell but he looks good and he was a 6th round pick....Im gonna give them the benefit of the doubt and assume they know what they're doing...... for now

Re: T.J. Duckett Conspiracy
 

[quote=70Chip;227612]You know who Andy Reid is? He's the Danny White of NFL coaches. The HOF is for coaches who win Championships and George Allen. No room for Holmgren look-alikes. Besides, everyone agrees that Donovan is The Greatest so it must have been Reid's lousy coaching that caused them to lose the Big Game EVERY TIME. If Reid is an HOFer, then the blame would lie with Donovan and that would rip the very fabric of space-time. John Madden's head would explode.

I think The T.J. Duckett Conspiracy was the band at my High School Prom.[/quote]

Reid has done a lot for the eagles, but you seem to discount all of it because he has never won a SB ... huh? oh, and he still has time left in his career to do it ... it might happen this year--who knows?

Re: T.J. Duckett Conspiracy
 

[quote=GhettoDogAllStars;227641]Reid has done a lot for the eagles, but you seem to discount all of it because he has never won a SB ... huh? oh, and he still has time left in his career to do it ... it might happen this year--who knows?[/quote]

It might. I'm not holding my breath.

Are you sure your avatar isn't supposed to be an Eagles helmet?

Re: T.J. Duckett Conspiracy
 

The plan with TJ is to keep him on the bench this year unless really needed, so as not to have to give up anymore draft choices. Betts will not sign with us next year, thats when we will use him.

Re: T.J. Duckett Conspiracy
 

[QUOTE=chris36;227649]The plan with TJ is to keep him on the bench this year unless really needed, so as not to have to give up anymore draft choices. Betts will not sign with us next year, thats when we will use him.[/QUOTE]


I hope you're correct Chris, and that this is the plan. I would love for Duckett to remain with the team, but of course we have to sign him first. It's likely we'll sign either him or Betts to a new contract.

Re: T.J. Duckett Conspiracy
 

[quote=Longtimefan;227650]I hope you're correct Chris, and that this is the plan. I would love for Duckett to remain with the team, but of course we have to sign him first. It's likely we'll sign either him or Betts to a new contract.[/quote]
Especially with Rock presenting to be a solid kick returner. I

I think Betts may be pretty good trade bait next year but we'll see. (does anyone know how many years he's got left on his contract?)

Re: T.J. Duckett Conspiracy
 

[quote=RobH4413;227652]Especially with Rock presenting to be a solid kick returner. I

I think Betts may be pretty good trade bait next year but we'll see. (does anyone know how many years he's got left on his contract?)[/quote]
Both Betts and Duckett are free agents after this season. If Duckett never sees the light of day and signs elsewhere, giving up a 3rd rounder will have to go down as one of our worst trades.

Re: T.J. Duckett Conspiracy
 

[QUOTE=RobH4413;227652]Especially with Rock presenting to be a solid kick returner. I

I think Betts may be pretty good trade bait next year but we'll see. (does anyone know how many years he's got left on his contract?)[/QUOTE]



Betts is also a free agent come season's end.

Re: T.J. Duckett Conspiracy
 

[quote=SouperMeister;227654]Both Betts and Duckett are free agents after this season. If Duckett never sees the light of day and signs elsewhere, giving up a 3rd rounder will have to go down as one of our worst trades.[/quote]

mos def

Re: T.J. Duckett Conspiracy
 

[quote=That Guy;226981]like waiting a month and getting lloyd for free... "but we have a 3rd and a 4th, and uh, we don't really want to USE them, now do we?"[/quote]I think we tendered him for a year, so you guys would have had to wait a year to get him if not for the trade.

Re: T.J. Duckett Conspiracy
 

[quote=Oakland Red;227086]Mistakes have been made, and right now releasing Walt Harris could be one of the biggest ones.[/quote]
To my surprise Walt has been good at #2 Corner. I really didn't think the move was that great in the offseason but Harris has been the MVP of our mostly trash defense.

Re: T.J. Duckett Conspiracy
 

[quote=SouperMeister;227654]Both Betts and Duckett are free agents after this season. If Duckett never sees the light of day and signs elsewhere, giving up a 3rd rounder will have to go down as one of our worst trades.[/quote]
Thanks, I knew Duckett was on the last leg of his contract but didn't know about betts.

It's going to be interesting to see who they sign once they're left with the choice of one or the other.

Re: T.J. Duckett Conspiracy
 

I am shocked that Duckets contract is over. I knew about Betts, this comes as a shock to me. This is exactly what I am talking about, what is the front office thinking?

Re: T.J. Duckett Conspiracy
 

[quote=chris36;227702]I am shocked that Duckets contract is over. I knew about Betts, this comes as a shock to me. This is exactly what I am talking about, what is the front office thinking?[/quote]
Which gets back to my original comment in the thread - our front office tosses draft choices like confetti. We probably have more guys who were selected in the first round than any team in the league. In a perverse way, this can be a bad thing, since every one of those guys has gotten at least on large signing bonus, and may not be as hungry as the 3rd and 4th rounders fighting to establish their careers so they can cash in. Antonio Pierce (an undrafted FA) is a great example of a guy who was hungry to improve while he was here. I'd take guys with that work ethic and desire over many of the overpaid former 1st rounders currently wearing burgundy and gold - Rumph, Archuleta, Carter, and Wynn are prime examples on our leaky defense.

Re: T.J. Duckett Conspiracy
 

[QUOTE=Longtimefan;227605]Plus, keep in mind many in Philly did not consider McNabb a superior QB, as a matter of fact they didn't want the team to draft him, they wanted Ricky Williams instead. They took McNabb, drveloped him, and he has paid dividens for them, and again he was their player. We took Jason Campbell, and instead of developing him the way most teams would have, he's still at square one mainly because of our overwhelming desire to "win now". I could live with a loosing season if it meant we were attempting to develop a QB of the future. The QB is the heart and soul of every team from an offensive standpoint, it would serve us well to start thinking in that direction starting now.[/QUOTE]

It didn't hurt Palmer to sit for a year, and it doesn't appear to be hurting Rivers to sit out two years. Campbell is going to be a great QB, but I don't know that there's any definitive proof that he'd be better off long-term playing right now. Didn't Delhomme sit a few years as well?

What I would like is for Campbell to play in NFL Europe next spring

Re: T.J. Duckett Conspiracy
 

betts leaving could hurt...i think betts is great...when Portis runs good, he sees that and i think he is inspired to do better, and he does.....now duckett....jesus, it hurts to even talk about, so many missed oppurtunities to use him in the way we got him for, short yard 3rd/4th downs and goaline....
if duckett AND betts go, then we fucked up....period.

Re: T.J. Duckett Conspiracy
 

[quote=chris36;227702]I am shocked that Duckets contract is over. I knew about Betts, this comes as a shock to me. This is exactly what I am talking about, what is the front office thinking?[/quote]

All they had to do is re-sign one of them.

Should the team not trade for someone unless they're under a long-term deal or something? In that case we wouldn't have gotten Moss.

Re: T.J. Duckett Conspiracy
 

we need quality football stars

Re: T.J. Duckett Conspiracy
 

Just a heads up, with the DL banged up it's likely that TJ won't dress again this weekend. Chalk it up to the conspiracy I guess.

Re: T.J. Duckett Conspiracy
 

maybe even the conspiracy is a conspiracy!

Re: T.J. Duckett Conspiracy
 

[quote=BrunellMVP?;227102]i can respect your theory that we are living in a "what have you done for me recently" type world...but couldn't the same be said for you guys, and your support of brunell? i mean, sure he did well (tossing the short balls) against houston and jacksonville but [U]the overall trend is that he can't beat you down field...his receivers may be able to, but he can't.[/U] when was the last time we had several sucessful LONG BOMBS? not 10 yard slants or screens that went for big plays...(not dimishing the value of these plays)??? the fact is he hasn't tossed big bombs, when it counts, in a LONG LONG time...
i wouldn't argue that long throws make the QB, but i woudl argue that you can't enjoy sustained sucess without it...what is mcnabb doing these days? manning? any of the other elite qbs?[/quote]

As a quarterback with smaller receivers, you can't just throw the ball up for grabs. Those guys have to get open, create separation. They haven't been able to do that for the most part yet.

Re: T.J. Duckett Conspiracy
 

[quote=RiggoRules;227101]I think TJ for a 3rd rounder was a steal. We have needed a bruising, between the tackles and short yardage back for a while. But I don't get why we aren't using him.

As far as the 4th and 1 against the Giants, where we should have used him was on the 3rd and 1.[/quote]

I agree with you 100%. But, here is what Joe Bugel had to say about it:


"[In last Sunday's game against the Giants], we told our offensive football team before the game that we were going to throw the ball on our first 3rd-and-1 play because we were 100 percent run on 3rd-and-1 going into the game. They accepted that, and our first 3rd-and-1 play was in the third quarter.

"It turned out to be a big play because we didn't make it. It was a short pass to Chris Cooley. I'll tell you what, [the Giants] must have heard the play in the huddle because they played that pass really well.
"As coaches, you can't second-guess that call. You can't what-if it. Our players didn't second-guess it, either. I think, when you ask offensive linemen, they always want to run on 3rd-and-1. We told them we were going to take a shot on this pass play on 3rd-and-1, and we didn't make it. So be it.

Personally I think that is ridiculous to make that decision before the game. In my opinion you have to see how the flow of the game is going, how successful have we been running so far, etc. Dumb dumb dumb. I mean I can see scripting the first series of the game or whatever, but to make the decision to pass on the first 3rd and 1 before the game even starts is ridiculous.

Re: T.J. Duckett Conspiracy
 

Carrying it into the 3rd quarter of a winnable game is ridiculous...

Re: T.J. Duckett Conspiracy
 

[quote=Chief X_Phackter;227821]I agree with you 100%. But, here is what Joe Bugel had to say about it:


"[In last Sunday's game against the Giants], we told our offensive football team before the game that we were going to throw the ball on our first 3rd-and-1 play because we were 100 percent run on 3rd-and-1 going into the game. They accepted that, and our first 3rd-and-1 play was in the third quarter.

"It turned out to be a big play because we didn't make it. It was a short pass to Chris Cooley. I'll tell you what, [the Giants] must have heard the play in the huddle because they played that pass really well.
"As coaches, you can't second-guess that call. You can't what-if it. Our players didn't second-guess it, either. I think, when you ask offensive linemen, they always want to run on 3rd-and-1. We told them we were going to take a shot on this pass play on 3rd-and-1, and we didn't make it. So be it.

Personally I think that is ridiculous to make that decision before the game. In my opinion you have to see how the flow of the game is going, how successful have we been running so far, etc. Dumb dumb dumb. I mean I can see scripting the first series of the game or whatever, but to make the decision to pass on the first 3rd and 1 before the game even starts is ridiculous.[/quote]

But if it worked we wouldn't be saying jack right now.

That's how things go, you're not going to make the right call 100% of the time. You win some, you lose some. If it works it's a genius call, if it fails then it's a disaster.

I'd guarantee you that ALOT of calls/decisions are made before the game. That 3rd and 1 call was obviously a part of the 3rd down package of the game plan. That's why teams game plan and scheme. I'm sure that defensively, the Giants KNEW that we have run 100% of the time on 3rd and 1.

Re: T.J. Duckett Conspiracy
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;227826]But if it worked we wouldn't be saying jack right now.

That's how things go, you're not going to make the right call 100% of the time. You win some, you lose some. If it works it's a genius call, if it fails then it's a disaster.

I'd guarantee you that ALOT of calls/decisions are made before the game. That 3rd and 1 call was obviously a part of the 3rd down package of the game plan. That's why teams game plan and scheme. I'm sure that defensively, the Giants KNEW that we have run 100% of the time on 3rd and 1.[/QUOTE]
That's fine in the first quarter, maybe even the second. But to say, we're not even going to consider how the Gyants' D has [b]actually[/b] been playing, or what has worked on offense today, is ridiculous.

Now, if Buges had said, "That was our plan, but we decided [u]at the time[/u] that passing on this 3rd down play was the best decision", I'm not going to second guess that. What I do second guess is making that decision for a play in the 3rd quarter before the game even starts.

Re: T.J. Duckett Conspiracy
 

Well guys give Bugel a call. I am...........sure you could teach him quite a bit. Next give Edison a shout out about his shit that didn't work

Re: T.J. Duckett Conspiracy
 

[quote=Mattyk72;227826]But if it worked we wouldn't be saying jack right now.

That's how things go, you're not going to make the right call 100% of the time. You win some, you lose some. If it works it's a genius call, if it fails then it's a disaster.

I'd guarantee you that ALOT of calls/decisions are made before the game. That 3rd and 1 call was obviously a part of the 3rd down package of the game plan. That's why teams game plan and scheme. I'm sure that defensively, the Giants KNEW that we have run 100% of the time on 3rd and 1.[/quote]

True, but sometimes, especially back when Gibbs was first coaching, teams knew what was coming, and their goal was to stop it. You'd think that Brunell could have come out of the huddle with a t-shirt on saying, "We're running it up the middle." and the Giants wouldn't have been able to stop it.