Re: Theismann made a great point during MNF.
 

[quote=skinsfan69;236668]Anyone watch the Pats last night? Joe T. made a great point. He said the Pats offense doesn't care about balance. They care about production and points. Plus I don't think I saw one false start or any penalties on the Pats 0-line on the road with crowd noise. Unlike the Skins line they are so disiplined. Brady is pointing out blitzers and they execute. Plus who are the WR's? Gabriel, Caldwell, Jackson and T. Brown? Give me a break! I know the TE is a stud but please. Why is it that the Skins always say that they must run to win? You bring in two new WR's w/ S. Moss and Cooley and you want to be a running team? Has anyone told Gibbs for the most part it's a passing league now???? How about you attack the weakness of your opponent? Does the Skins offense ever do this? We saw it with Indy. They didn't even bother messing around with Bailey. They just killed the other corner. Does the Skins offense ever attack? It always seems they come out and try and ram it down everyone's throat. Sometimes it's just painful to watch. Not smart offense in today's NFL! Just my .02.[/quote]

Running is Redskins football. Always has been...

Re: Theismann made a great point during MNF.
 

[quote=offiss;237146]No, what I am saying is he wants to do it his way and that is with Brunell.

Lets face it he was the only one in the NFL who wanted the guy at least as a starter, and he was the only one who was going to give anything up to get him, let alone 43 mil and a 3rd round pick, so in the eye's of every personel man out there he looks like a baffone, thier all saying I told you so, and he's trying to prove them wrong, which comes down to his inability to admit he royally screwed up with the Brunell signing.

Take a good look at Brunell can anyone say with a straight face he was a good signing? Let alone a horid signing?

If Brunell was playing for the Boy's the last 3 years we would still be laughing at how dumb they are, but because it's us and a Gibbs move, that makes it all right.

The guy is a joke at QB, how many Skins games does Aikmen have to cover do we have to hear him breakdown the QB play and question the decision making of Brunell along with his inability of arm strength to hit a reciever downfield, yes Brunell can throw the ball deep but he has to winde up and put a lot of air under it he cannot snap off a throw and get the ball 40 yards downfield. But until Brunell is removed from the equation everyone will continue to believe that there is no way Gibbs could be wrong, or stubborn, or human.[/quote]

I really hate to bash MB too much, b/c he used to be a great qb and he's a great person, but...

The way i look at it is, who would you rather have as your qb in the nfc? Or who would MB beat out as qb in the nfc?

I think i would rather have MB than Alex Smith, Leinart (sp?), and, um that might be about it. Am i leaving anyone off? Kitna or MB?? Point is, its there are not alot of qb's worse than mb right now (throw out statistics).

Re: Theismann made a great point during MNF.
 

[quote=The Zimmermans;237197]i thought it was a good signing at the time, but then I saw Brunell play for us and I knew right away that he wasnt the guy...............couldnt believe it when gibbs brought him back after that 6-10 season. We've been through this all before when ramsey was his backup (and was better than brunell) any backup of brunell's is better than him.[/quote]

Right and you thought Brunell wasn't the guy when we made that run last year? This is a weak arguement that alot of people are making.

It is kinda like all the people who are bitching at Al Saunders, but they were the same people that were complaining about Gibbs and our offense in the playoffs. These are the same people who thought AA was gonna be great, and are now swearing that they loved Clark. Bull, I am currently working on a thread I have decidated to this, look at the Locker Room on Friday.

Re: Theismann made a great point during MNF.
 

i've never thought brunell was the guy at any moment at any point in time.....quote me on that. Brunell is the reason we couldnt make a superbowl run last year, that is all.

Re: Theismann made a great point during MNF.
 

[QUOTE=The Zimmermans;237262]i've never thought brunell was the guy at any moment at any point in time.....quote me on that. Brunell is the reason we couldnt make a superbowl run last year, that is all.[/QUOTE]

It would have made sense to quote you on that had you said it in 2004 when we signed him. Or had we heard you say it.

Re: Theismann made a great point during MNF.
 

[quote=hesscl34;237255]Running is Redskins football. Always has been...[/quote]
doesnt seem like it anymore. portis should be getting 20-25 carries, instead of the 10-15 he is. i guess saunders doesnt know portis is one of the elite backs in this league

Re: Theismann made a great point during MNF.
 

[quote=The Zimmermans;237262]i've never thought brunell was the guy at any moment at any point in time.....quote me on that. Brunell is the reason we couldnt make a superbowl run last year, that is all.[/quote]
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[B]Re: Theismann made a great point during MNF.[/B]
i thought it was a good signing at the time, but then I saw Brunell play for us and I knew right away that he wasnt the guy...............couldnt believe it when gibbs brought him back after that 6-10 season. We've been through this all before when ramsey was his backup (and was better than brunell) any backup of brunell's is better than him.
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Re: Theismann made a great point during MNF.
 

[QUOTE=skins052bgr8;237503]2006, 10:43 AM #[URL="http://www.thewarpath.net/237197-post31.html"][B]31[/B][/URL] ([B][URL="http://www.thewarpath.net/redskins-locker-room/15334-theismann-made-great-point-during-mnf-3.html#post237197"]permalink[/URL][/B]) [URL="http://www.thewarpath.net/member.php?u=2845"]The Zimmermans[/URL] vbmenu_register("postmenu_237197", true);
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[B]Re: Theismann made a great point during MNF.[/B]
i thought it was a good signing at the time, but then I saw Brunell play for us and I knew right away that he wasnt the guy...............couldnt believe it when gibbs brought him back after that 6-10 season. We've been through this all before when ramsey was his backup (and was better than brunell) any backup of brunell's is better than him.
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Dan Snyder is a Cancer, Joe Gibbs is the Cure[/QUOTE]


Well played

Re: Theismann made a great point during MNF.
 

Bottom line is Gibbs has not adjusted to today's NFL.

Re: Theismann made a great point during MNF.
 

Today's NFL defending champion is the Pittsburgh Steelers, who (along with several other teams) have a style that is very similar, if not identical, to Gibbs'

Re: Theismann made a great point during MNF.
 

I have to disagree with you. Pittsburgh opened up the offense all through the playoff run.

Re: Theismann made a great point during MNF.
 

"Coordinator Ken Whisenhunt, who played for Joe Gibbs for two years as a backup tight end in Washington, could be the next head coach if Cowher leaves. He obviously paid close attention; the offense he runs is a Gibbs-like system that can utilize the power running game and the deep pass with equal success."

[url=http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/5896698]FOX Sports - NFL - Coaches rankings: Redskins stockpiling talent[/url]

Now I know you and/or someone else will say "deep pass, what deep pass" but this isn't about Brunell or Campbell or Gibbs or Saunders. It's about whether Gibbs' system works. And I think it does. Best examples are in Pitt and Carolina

Re: Theismann made a great point during MNF.
 

Not so much deep pass, just pass more on first down. OR get in shotgun on first down and run. Keep the defense on it's heels. Have you ever seen the Skins in shotgun on 1ST DOWN? Nope. Only on 3rd and long. That is predictable offense. This is what makes Ken W. such a great O-coordinator. He keeps the defense off balance. New England does a great job of this as well. I know they have Brady, but some of the passes he makes, any QB can make. Yes he has talent and sees the field but his 31 year old o-coordinator puts him in good situations to make those plays.

Re: Theismann made a great point during MNF.
 

[quote=skinsfan69;237556]Bottom line is Gibbs has not adjusted to today's NFL.[/quote]
i dont know if i should reply to this assnine staement. you were probably the same guy lauding coach gibbs after the skins won 5 in a row, and made the playoffs. and kissing his feet after the skins beat tampa in the playoffs. right now, coach gibbs DOES NOT call the plays. and al saunders has been in the nfl forever. i think its more of a case of the offense and the offensive coordinator still feeling each other out( insert joke here)

Re: Theismann made a great point during MNF.
 

[quote=jdlea;236743]Yeah, when you have Clinton Portis as your running back and Mark Brunell as your quarterback, you can't afford to be a pass first offense. Brunell can't do that. And Portis is too good to be a complimentary player. The Pats are a good example because they have a couple very good runners, but their offense is still predicated on the pass. However, they have the best or second best quarterback in the NFL. The Skins have Mark Brunell...that's why it's not pass first. That and it's not the philosophy of anyone on the staff, really.[/quote]

Exactly. In 1986 Jay Schroeder was on fire throwing and so Joe Gibbs threw enough to allow him to reach 4000 yards passing. While Joe might like to run effectively, he has a history of going with what works. If we could chuck it down the field like the Colts then they would do that.

As for Saunders, he says he wants a balance, but most importantly to do whatever the situation calls for at the time.

Re: Theismann made a great point during MNF.
 

[quote=skins052bgr8;237503]2006, 10:43 AM #[URL="http://www.thewarpath.net/237197-post31.html"][B]31[/B][/URL] ([B][URL="http://www.thewarpath.net/redskins-locker-room/15334-theismann-made-great-point-during-mnf-3.html#post237197"]permalink[/URL][/B]) [URL="http://www.thewarpath.net/member.php?u=2845"]The Zimmermans[/URL] vbmenu_register("postmenu_237197", true);
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[B]Re: Theismann made a great point during MNF.[/B]
i thought it was a good signing at the time, but then I saw Brunell play for us and I knew right away that he wasnt the guy...............couldnt believe it when gibbs brought him back after that 6-10 season. We've been through this all before when ramsey was his backup (and was better than brunell) any backup of brunell's is better than him.
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Dan Snyder is a Cancer, Joe Gibbs is the Cure[/quote]

You seem to be pretending you made a point, still never said I liked brunell, try to prove points that are points

Re: Theismann made a great point during MNF.
 

You said you thought it was a good signing at the time. Then you said "I never thought Brunell was the guy at any time...quote me on that"

So what did you mean?

Re: Theismann made a great point during MNF.
 

I thought we needed a QB, but I saw him play for the skins and he never showed anything promising. 3 seasons, the entire time ive wanted him benched. the whole point was that during our 10-6 run, I still didnt feel he was capable of winning a superbowl. I like his attitude, he's a standup guy, but hasnt showed the talent and composure that he did in Jacksonville.

Re: Theismann made a great point during MNF.
 

[quote=dmek25;237592]i dont know if i should reply to this assnine staement. you were probably the same guy lauding coach gibbs after the skins won 5 in a row, and made the playoffs. and kissing his feet after the skins beat tampa in the playoffs. right now, coach gibbs DOES NOT call the plays. and al saunders has been in the nfl forever. i think its more of a case of the offense and the offensive coordinator still feeling each other out( insert joke here)[/quote]

WRONG!!!!!! I was actually about to throw my remote through the screen during the Tampa game. That was one of the most awful game plans I have ever seen. How can an NFL playoff team have 41 yards passing? Brunell takes some of that but the play calling needed to be more aggresive. If you can remember the offense played HORRIBLE during that 5 game stretch in some of those games and needed the defense to pull it out. Yes the offese played well against Dallas and NY but remember Arizona, Philly and St louis? Plus two awful playff games???? Do you have a clue what your talking about? That is why he brough in Sanders becasue his offense stunk when it mattered the most. Yes Gibbs does not call the plays but I'm sure he has his prints all over the game plan. I don't EVER remembering Saunders running this type of offense in KC. Brunell can make passes down the field. It just needs to be when the defense isn't expecting it. MORE PASSES ON 1ST DOWN.

Re: Theismann made a great point during MNF.
 

Saunders is a smart guy, he realizes that brunell has a tough time goin down field, and he's immobile in the pocket. So he figured to go to our strengths, get the ball out of mark's hands fast, and get it in the hands of our speedy, dangerous backs and receivers. However, when saunders attempts to keep the defense on its heels with occasional deep balls, mark checks down, gets sacked, or throws the ball out of bounds, making these short plays predictable and inneffective in the end. Saunders is just trying to cater to what we have. He does run the ball a lot, just not when we are down by 2 scores, naturally.

Re: Theismann made a great point during MNF.
 

[quote=skinsfan69;237768]WRONG!!!!!! I was actually about to throw my remote through the screen during the Tampa game. That was one of the most awful game plans I have ever seen. How can an NFL playoff team have 41 yards passing? Brunell takes some of that but the play calling needed to be more aggresive. If you can remember the offense played HORRIBLE during that 5 game stretch in some of those games and needed the defense to pull it out. Yes the offese played well against Dallas and NY but remember Arizona, Philly and St louis? Plus two awful playff games???? Do you have a clue what your talking about? That is why he brough in Sanders becasue his offense stunk when it mattered the most. Yes Gibbs does not call the plays but I'm sure he has his prints all over the game plan. I don't EVER remembering Saunders running this type of offense in KC. Brunell can make passes down the field. It just needs to be when the defense isn't expecting it. MORE PASSES ON 1ST DOWN.[/quote]
i might not have a clue, but one thing i do know is that last year the redskins won 10 games, and a playoff game with Joe Gibbs as offensive coordinator. and Mark brunell as qback. i guess that means maybe Mr Saunders is the one that has to adapt rather then the other way around

Re: Theismann made a great point during MNF.
 

You are correct. They did win 10 games. But if you ask me, it was one of the weakest 10 games you will ever see.

Re: Theismann made a great point during MNF.
 

We won 10 games, that is the minimum for a playoff team, a team with 10 wins has many flaws. We lost 7 times last year, counting the playoffs, there needed to be improvements, and saunders was that step, it's the defense that's the problem. Taking out brunell is just the only move that could make a difference at the moment. There needs to be big changes on defense in the off season if we don't perform this weekend with all our starters back

Re: Theismann made a great point during MNF.
 

The d-fense just does not have the horses. No playmakers on the front seven. Joe S. seems to always have nagging injuries, Daniles is too old and slow. Carter? Whoever signed off on bringing him here should be removed from personal moves. And can someone tell me why Holdman is still in the frickin line-up when they traded THIS YEAR'S 2nd rounder to move up to get Rocky M??? Another bad move. If you make that kind of move Rocky M. should be inserted into the starting line-up the day he walks in the door. Put Holdman on teams. What a bunch of BS! And can someone teach Carlos R. how to adjust to the ball when it's in the air? He's seems very uncomfortable in man coverage.

Re: Theismann made a great point during MNF.
 

10 wins in this league, or 11 if you count the playoffs, is not a fluke. We were 5-1 in the division, that's not a fluke either.

Re: Theismann made a great point during MNF.
 

i never said it was a fluke, but 10 wins is not a perfect season, you can't sit on ten wins, you must improve on ten wins, which we were attempting to do when we got saunders.

Re: Theismann made a great point during MNF.
 

[quote=The Zimmermans;237810]i never said it was a fluke, but 10 wins is not a perfect season, you can't sit on ten wins, you must improve on ten wins, which we were attempting to do when we got saunders.[/quote]

I agree.

My response was directed towards skinsfan69 who said our 11 wins were weak.

Re: Theismann made a great point during MNF.
 

oh, yeah, either way, I really did think we were gonna have a good season this year, since we ended on such a good note, the defense just let us down. We probably should have focused primarily on depth in the offseason instead of signing big names. It's ok to win with defense like we did last year.

Re: Theismann made a great point during MNF.
 

the redskins won 10 games last. by far they were not perfect. but the players that were added didn't perform the way the front office thought that they would. with that being said, coach Gibbs proved his style can succeed in this league. i can still remember the disaster he inherited, i, for one, will take double digit victorys and playoffs every year

Re: Theismann made a great point during MNF.
 

[quote=dmek25;237831]the redskins won 10 games last. by far they were not perfect. but the players that were added didn't perform the way the front office thought that they would. with that being said, coach Gibbs proved his style can succeed in this league. i can still remember the disaster he inherited, i, for one, will take double digit victorys and playoffs every year[/quote]

Here's what I will be satisfied with, dmek. Every Sunday when I look at the matchup between te Skins and their opponent I want to say "the Titans suck we should beat them" or "the Giants look pretty good but not great, we should have a real close game". So far, I'm not getting that. We are the consumate "shooting-one's-self-in-the-foot" team. In a word, I want predictability. I have no idea which Redskins team will show up from week to week.

Re: Theismann made a great point during MNF.
 

Yeah, Too much needs to go our way for us to win on sunday.

Re: Theismann made a great point during MNF.
 

[quote=Mattyk72;237819]I agree.

My response was directed towards skinsfan69 who said our 11 wins were weak.[/quote]

Sorry but they were weak. Yes 5-1 in the div. was good. Very good. And there were some good wins against Dallas, Seattle and NY. But looking back a close win against Philly w/out McNabb is weak. I mean that game was almost lost and Philly had Mike M. and Detmer! A win against St. Louis against it's 3rd stringer is weak. Barely beating Arizona is weak. A win against Chicago playing at home against rookie qb is weak. And don't get me started on the Tampa Game with that pee-wee league 41 yards passing. If the defense doesn't score in that game it's a loss. The bottom line is the defense has fallen apart this year and can no longer carry the offense. And personally I'm just tired of this out dated run first pound it down your throat approach when the line is not as good as advertised. If you ask me we need to start rebuilding in that area too. No young talent as back-ups.

Re: Theismann made a great point during MNF.
 

[quote=724Skinsfan;237837]Here's what I will be satisfied with, dmek. Every Sunday when I look at the matchup between te Skins and their opponent I want to say "the Titans suck we should beat them" or "the Giants look pretty good but not great, we should have a real close game". So far, I'm not getting that. We are the consumate "shooting-one's-self-in-the-foot" team. In a word, I want predictability. I have no idea which Redskins team will show up from week to week.[/quote]
consistency is what all teams in any sport strive for. but i do agree, if the redskins are to be the team that we all want them to be, you should be able to look at the schedule and pretty much circle the games that are gimmes. there is no way the skins of yesteryears success lose to a team like the titans. too much Jekyll and Hyde

Re: Theismann made a great point during MNF.
 

[QUOTE=skinsfan69;237845]Sorry but they were weak. Yes 5-1 in the div. was good. Very good. And there were some good wins against Dallas, Seattle and NY. But looking back a close win against Philly w/out McNabb is weak. I mean that game was almost lost and Philly had Mike M. and Detmer! A win against St. Louis against it's 3rd stringer is weak. Barely beating Arizona is weak. A win against Chicago playing at home against rookie qb is weak. And don't get me started on the Tampa Game with that pee-wee league 41 yards passing. If the defense doesn't score in that game it's a loss. The bottom line is the defense has fallen apart this year and can no longer carry the offense. And personally I'm just tired of this out dated run first pound it down your throat approach when the line is not as good as advertised. If you ask me we need to start rebuilding in that area too. No young talent as back-ups.[/QUOTE]

I think you should look around the league and see how other teams have won over the years. You'll probably find a lot of "weak" wins. At the end of the day though, a win is a win is a win.

Re: Theismann made a great point during MNF.
 

Yeah, there is no such thing as a weak win, we had multiple victories snatched from us last year as well, chiefs and tampa. It all balances out int the end. we deserved those ten wins given our schedule. A first place schedule might have led to less success.

Re: Theismann made a great point during MNF.
 

[quote=skinsfan69;237845]Sorry but they were weak. Yes 5-1 in the div. was good. Very good. And there were some good wins against Dallas, Seattle and NY. But looking back a close win against Philly w/out McNabb is weak. I mean that game was almost lost and Philly had Mike M. and Detmer! A win against St. Louis against it's 3rd stringer is weak. Barely beating Arizona is weak. A win against Chicago playing at home against rookie qb is weak. And don't get me started on the Tampa Game with that pee-wee league 41 yards passing. If the defense doesn't score in that game it's a loss. The bottom line is the defense has fallen apart this year and can no longer carry the offense. And personally I'm just tired of this out dated run first pound it down your throat approach when the line is not as good as advertised. If you ask me we need to start rebuilding in that area too. No young talent as back-ups.[/quote]

Division wins aren't weak in my opinion. I don't care who Philly was playing in that last game, they were bound and determined to ruin our season and they nearly did.

Arizona and St. Louis were both road wins which aren't easy.

Like someone already said, we lost our fair share of games which we could have won. There's a very fine line between winning and losing. All you can do is play the next team on your schedule. I don't see the point in nitpicking each win. They won 5 straight to reach the playoffs when everyone had left them for dead at 5-6.

I don't see why we have to keep defending what happened last year. It was what it was, a 10 win playoff season. This year is a different team and a different season.

Why can't we just keep last year in our memory as a good memory rather than dragging it into the mess of this year?

Re: Theismann made a great point during MNF.
 

well put, road victories are difficult. We made it look easy against some of those teams, especially saint louis cause we had such an effective run game, not all teams had that. The only real slip up was against the raiders, God I almost killed someone after seeing that game, but it was what we needed to go on that epic run. When we were on.......(running the ball down people's throats), there was no way to beat us cause we had the ball the entire game.

Re: Theismann made a great point during MNF.
 

[quote=Mattyk72;237880]Division wins aren't weak in my opinion. I don't care who Philly was playing in that last game, they were bound and determined to ruin our season and they nearly did.

Arizona and St. Louis were both road wins which aren't easy.

Like someone already said, we lost our fair share of games which we could have won. There's a very fine line between winning and losing. All you can do is play the next team on your schedule. I don't see the point in nitpicking each win. They won 5 straight to reach the playoffs when everyone had left them for dead at 5-6.

I don't see why we have to keep defending what happened last year. It was what it was, a 10 win playoff season. This year is a different team and a different season.

Why can't we just keep last year in our memory as a good memory rather than dragging it into the mess of this year?[/quote]

Agreed. Last year was brought up becasue some of those problems have are the same problems we are having now. A total lack of offense when it matters most.

Re: Theismann made a great point during MNF.
 

[quote=skinsfan69;237950]Agreed. Last year was brought up becasue some of those problems have are the same problems we are having now. A total lack of offense when it matters most.[/quote]

Don't forget about our D which is scraping the bottom of the league rankings right about now.

Re: Theismann made a great point during MNF.
 

IMO, Joe wore that single bar face-mask too long!