Re: At what point would a skins fan be justified in calling for Gibbs' resignation?
 

Keep in mind, Joe Gibbs's plan for this team was to rebuild the franchise. That is his number one goal. However, he also wanted to find a group of guys he felt could give the redskins the best chance to win now. I think what Gibbs is finding difficult is the fact that while you can go out and get just about any guy you want, it's hard to keep some of the good guys you already have.

I truly believe that the benefits we reap from Gibbs will probably become known after Gibbs steps aside. Not that Gibbs can't make those players win, but that it may take a year or two past Gibbs' contract in order to finish the development.

Again, I think we're just in the age of instant gradification. If it doesn't work right away, we need to trash it all and start all over again. For some who say we need to get a new coach, and I realize it's not many saying that, keep in mind that getting a new head coach means getting a whole new coaching staff (more than likely) and getting rid of players who don't fit the system, etc.....this is something I want this franchise to finally avoid.

Re: At what point would a skins fan be justified in calling for Gibbs' resignation?
 

brian billick - offensive genius w/poor offense
m. Lewis - def. guru w/poor defense
tuna - discipinarian whose team is among league leaders in penalties & who is just over .500 since coaching cowpokes
j. gruden - struggling O even when simms was healthy

Gibbs' offenses have struggled, but made great strides last year & we went to the 2nd rnd. Just take a look around the league & run the numbers on any given coach. Aside from Bellicheck, Reid, Shanahan & maybe Cowher, ups & downs are the norm in today's nfl. Even those guys had down years, see Philly last year & Pitt this year. Mike Holmgren was about to lose his job, then went to a super bowl.
The days of Gibbs I, Landry, B.Grant & Chuck Noll are long over. Its a lot harder to maintain a winning record & continuity for a long career. Bottom line, Gibbs got us back in the playoffs & had people talkin super bowl. Even if this year we don't make the playoffs, if JC turns out to be the real deal, Gibbs will have given us stability that we haven't seen since he left. If I have to lose, I'll lose w/Gibbs anyday before letting snyder open his checkbook to the next savior.

Re: At what point would a skins fan be justified in calling for Gibbs' resignation?
 

[quote=12thMan;245674]True. I just threw out those names as examples, not really to compare them to Gibbs' success. I mean, who else has an active winning percentage better than Gibbs...maybe Bellichek?

Funny you threw out Spurrier? I think had we kept either Marty Shott...or maybe held on to Marvin Lewis long enough to make him head coach, it's possible we're not even discussing Gibbs.[/quote]

It is true Marty has done a good job after he left. At the time, I personally was not to excited at the prospect of "Marty ball". Like Texas A & M. 3 yards and a cloud of dust. (or whatever)

Re: At what point would a skins fan be justified in calling for Gibbs' resignation?
 

[quote=12thMan;245710]From what I've read so far, or at least in this thread, no one here is calling for him to resign.[/quote]

I listened to a segment of the Brian Mitchell radio show yesterday, and he was having listeners call in about whether Gibbs should be fired. More than half of the people calling in said Gibbs SHOULD be fired. You have to have the football IQ of broccoli to think that firing Gibbs is the answer... dumbass's

Re: At what point would a skins fan be justified in calling for Gibbs' resignation?
 

[QUOTE=freddyg12;245712]brian billick - offensive genius w/poor offense
m. Lewis - def. guru w/poor defense
tuna - discipinarian whose team is among league leaders in penalties & who is just over .500 since coaching cowpokes
j. gruden - struggling O even when simms was healthy

Gibbs' offenses have struggled, but made great strides last year & we went to the 2nd rnd. Just take a look around the league & run the numbers on any given coach. Aside from Bellicheck, Reid, Shanahan & maybe Cowher, ups & downs are the norm in today's nfl. Even those guys had down years, see Philly last year & Pitt this year. Mike Holmgren was about to lose his job, then went to a super bowl.
The days of Gibbs I, Landry, B.Grant & Chuck Noll are long over. Its a lot harder to maintain a winning record & continuity for a long career. Bottom line, Gibbs got us back in the playoffs & had people talkin super bowl. Even if this year we don't make the playoffs, if JC turns out to be the real deal, Gibbs will have given us stability that we haven't seen since he left. If I have to lose, I'll lose w/Gibbs anyday before letting snyder open his checkbook to the next savior.[/QUOTE]

Very well said!

Re: At what point would a skins fan be justified in calling for Gibbs' resignation?
 

[quote=skinsguy;245711]Keep in mind, Joe Gibbs's plan for this team was to rebuild the franchise. That is his number one goal. However, he also wanted to find a group of guys he felt could give the redskins the best chance to win now. I think what Gibbs is finding difficult is the fact that while you can go out and get just about any guy you want, it's hard to keep some of the good guys you already have.

I truly believe that the benefits we reap from Gibbs will probably become known after Gibbs steps aside. Not that Gibbs can't make those players win, but that it may take a year or two past Gibbs' contract in order to finish the development.

Again, I think we're just in the age of instant gradification. If it doesn't work right away, we need to trash it all and start all over again. For some who say we need to get a new coach, and I realize it's not many saying that, keep in mind that getting a new head coach means getting a whole new coaching staff (more than likely) and getting rid of players who don't fit the system, etc.....this is something I want this franchise to finally avoid.[/quote]

Instant gratification? At the beginning of the '07 campaign Gibbs will have two more years left on his contract. So you have to figure, things will have to start cooking real soon for the Redskins.

Re: At what point would a skins fan be justified in calling for Gibbs' resignation?
 

[QUOTE=TAFKAS;245626]I'll be called a "yes man" for sure, but I really believe there are some people who have the right-however frustrating it may be for people-to decide when they want to leave. Dean Smith, Bobby Cox, Greg Popovich, Bobby Bowden, Joe Gibbs, to name a few.[/QUOTE]

This is what I would said. He is a legend. Our legend. The man has worked his butt off through two stints to win games for us. The first time got it done and I still believe he can get it done this time. I'd expect him to resign before I could ever admit that he needed to go. I can't even fathom what it would take for me to think that he can't make this work. I don't think it is blind optimism but actually faith based on results. What everyone wants to believe is that we won every game we ever played under Gibbs the first time around. Well guess what, we didn't. We had plenty of 9-7/10-6 years and had plenty of big losses. The league is even more competitive now and when he came here I think we can honestly admit that we were on the low side in terms of talent. There have been missteps for sure but I think the biggest misstep he made was allowing everyone to believe we were better than we were. Now he looks bad and everyone is pissed. But what exactly has he done that has hurt this team? Can anyone say this team is worse off now than when he came? I don't if it is but I haven't heard anyone say he has done a bad job. Just that he hasn't done all the right things. To me he has plenty of leash. He earned it.

Re: At what point would a skins fan be justified in calling for Gibbs' resignation?
 

[QUOTE=freddyg12;245712]brian billick - offensive genius w/poor offense
m. Lewis - def. guru w/poor defense
tuna - discipinarian whose team is among league leaders in penalties & who is just over .500 since coaching cowpokes
j. gruden - struggling O even when simms was healthy

Gibbs' offenses have struggled, but made great strides last year & we went to the 2nd rnd. Just take a look around the league & run the numbers on any given coach. Aside from Bellicheck, Reid, Shanahan & maybe Cowher, ups & downs are the norm in today's nfl. Even those guys had down years, see Philly last year & Pitt this year. Mike Holmgren was about to lose his job, then went to a super bowl.
The days of Gibbs I, Landry, B.Grant & Chuck Noll are long over. Its a lot harder to maintain a winning record & continuity for a long career. Bottom line, Gibbs got us back in the playoffs & had people talkin super bowl. Even if this year we don't make the playoffs, if JC turns out to be the real deal, Gibbs will have given us stability that we haven't seen since he left. If I have to lose, I'll lose w/Gibbs anyday before letting snyder open his checkbook to the next savior.[/QUOTE]

If we stink it up again next year, and Belichik were available as a coach, what would you do? What if Andy Reid were available? I guess the question is, which current generation coach (as opposed to old school - Parcells, Marty, etc.) would you take over Gibbs?

Re: At what point would a skins fan be justified in calling for Gibbs' resignation?
 

[quote=12thMan;245682]I agree, Irish. The only point I'm making is failure is failure whether we're talking about Joe Gibbs or the newest coach in the NFL. And I think it's possible that we sometimes become jaded by past success or reputation when dealing with certain individuals that we've endeared ourselves to.

I'm not advocating a switch by any means.[/quote]

Call it what you like, but Your the coach. You have two QB's, one has to go. Both on the back of side of a losing season You have Joe Montana, and Heath Shuler, who goes???????????? Losing is not losing, as Montana will bring you back and Shuler......well

Re: At what point would a skins fan be justified in calling for Gibbs' resignation?
 

I agree with Daseal that 3 years should be enough time for a coach to prove he's legit. However, if a coach doesn't do it in three it doesn't mean that he can't. You have to look at the reasons for failure. For example, if a coach can't win in three years, it might be because of excessive injuries--not poor coaching.

That said, I'd like to keep Gibbs until he can't do the job anymore (probably when he's about 70). Gibbs doesn't have to prove ANYTHING. You don't give Gibbs a three year probation period, just to see what he's got. If you don't know what Gibbs can do, then you shouldn't be making the decision about when he should leave. And all that talk about the NFL passing Gibbs by is nonsense. Most people don't realize how difficult it is to win the NFL--even with all the right players and coaches.

Re: At what point would a skins fan be justified in calling for Gibbs' resignation?
 

[QUOTE=FRPLG;245720]This is what I would said. He is a legend. Our legend. The man has worked his butt off through two stints to win games for us. The first time got it done and I still believe he can get it done this time. I'd expect him to resign before I could ever admit that he needed to go. I can't even fathom what it would take for me to think that he can't make this work. I don't think it is blind optimism but actually faith based on results. What everyone wants to believe is that we won every game we ever played under Gibbs the first time around. Well guess what, we didn't. We had plenty of 9-7/10-6 years and had plenty of big losses. The league is even more competitive now and when he came here I think we can honestly admit that we were on the low side in terms of talent. There have been missteps for sure but I think the biggest misstep he made was allowing everyone to believe we were better than we were. Now he looks bad and everyone is pissed. But what exactly has he done that has hurt this team? Can anyone say this team is worse off now than when he came? I don't if it is but I haven't heard anyone say he has done a bad job. Just that he hasn't done all the right things. To me he has plenty of leash. He earned it.[/QUOTE]

Good post..We did have those 9-7 & 10-6 yrs under Gibbs v1, however, we were always competitive. How many 6-10 years did we have? How many losses to bad non-division teams such as the current Clevelands, Oaklands, Tennessees etc under Gibbs v1? How many games where the offense has failed to score a TD before garbage time?

I'm perfectly willing to admit the fault isn't with Gibbs. Maybe its his supporting cast of coaches on offense - Breaux, Bugel, Burns, etc. that are over the hill. But Gibbs did bring in his personal entourage. And Brunell. And if Campbell doesn't pan out, Gibbs will also be responsible for erring on that front.

Re: At what point would a skins fan be justified in calling for Gibbs' resignation?
 

The normal coach should get 3 years, but 3 Super Bowl rings buys you a little extra time.

Re: At what point would a skins fan be justified in calling for Gibbs' resignation?
 

[quote=GhettoDogAllStars;245726]I agree with Daseal that 3 years should be enough time for a coach to prove he's legit. However, if a coach doesn't do it in three it doesn't mean that he can't. You have to look at the reasons for failure. For example, if a coach can't win in three years, it might be because of excessive injuries--not poor coaching.

That said, I'd like to keep Gibbs until he can't do the job anymore (probably when he's about 70). Gibbs doesn't have to prove ANYTHING. You don't give Gibbs a three year probation period, just to see what he's got. If you don't know what Gibbs can do, then you shouldn't be making the decision about when he should leave. And all that talk about the NFL passing Gibbs by is nonsense. Most people don't realize how difficult it is to win the NFL--even with all the right players and coaches.[/quote]


We can slice this any way we want, but come training camp '07, the Redskins will be on a 2 year time table. You think the expectations and scrutiny is high now, just wait another 6 months.

Re: At what point would a skins fan be justified in calling for Gibbs' resignation?
 

[quote=hurrykaine;245721]If we stink it up again next year, and Belichik were available as a coach, what would you do? What if Andy Reid were available? I guess the question is, which current generation coach (as opposed to old school - Parcells, Marty, etc.) would you take over Gibbs?[/quote]

that's a good question. I don't think Bellicheck would succeed in Danny's mgmt. style, unless he got full control a la Marty. If I'd take anyone though, I'd take Bellicheck, but I'd honestly rather see Gibbs, a true Redskin, coach our team.
What is another interesting scenario is if Gibbs decided to hire a head coach & simply serve as team president. I know GW is already in line, but it's possible that Gibbs might not actually coach his last 2 years, but still remain w/the team & fulfill his contract.

Re: At what point would a skins fan be justified in calling for Gibbs' resignation?
 

[QUOTE=RiggoRules;245707]It is all about the rings on Gibbs hands.

As a result, there is only one person who is in a position to call for Joe Gibbs to resign:

Mrs. Gibbs.

Dan Snyder isn't going to. Some bitter reporters and talk show hosts might, but who cares.[/QUOTE]

Could you imagine being Dan Snyder in this situation? I mean put aside any hatred you may have for the man (and by you, I mean the general Warpath public, not you specifically RiggoRules). Just think of what it would be like to idolize someone growing up and the next thing you know you're his boss. I couldn't fathom that. Having a "hero" report to me. And then face the possibility of having to make a hard decision like saying he's not getting the job done

Re: At what point would a skins fan be justified in calling for Gibbs' resignation?
 

I think the time will be right when the coach with a better resume and love for the team presents himself to the owners.

Is there a rumor out there that this mystery coach is seeking the Redskins head coaching position?

The goal is to better the organization, not to make changes because the team's offensive and/or defense is playing poorly.

Re: At what point would a skins fan be justified in calling for Gibbs' resignation?
 

I think the question isn't "Is Gibbs getting the job done" but rather, "Is the franchise in better shape now than before Gibbs took over?"

The answer would have to be yes. We're better across the board, and in fact the frustration that we all feel is fueled by the fact that we believe that the Skins are better.

A skins fan calling for Gibbs' resignation, its a little early for that. I don't want to get back on the coaching carousel. I agree the lack of an offensive identity is a little puzzling and most certainly frustrating, but I like the stability of having Coach Gibbs back.

Re: At what point would a skins fan be justified in calling for Gibbs' resignation?
 

ahhh i still have faith in gibbs. who knows how things will turn up? once this O has a year under our belt hopefully we'll be fine. the d on the other will continue to worry me.

Re: At what point would a skins fan be justified in calling for Gibbs' resignation?
 

[QUOTE=12thMan;245718]Instant gratification? At the beginning of the '07 campaign Gibbs will have two more years left on his contract. So you have to figure, things will have to start cooking real soon for the Redskins.[/QUOTE]

Yes, instant gratification. We have to have fast food, faster cars, faster internet, faster computers.... it's the nature of how people live in these times...especially with the internet where any and all information is a button click away. The NFL is no different. Free agency can instantly transform some teams from last to first...building a team from ground up is not as popular as it once was, but building it from the ground up the right way - I believe - allows a franchise to be good for years to come.

I'd rather not have a Super Bowl season this year and know that the next ten years would be a repeat of the 90's, and have a team that is a Super Bowl caliber team for the next 10 years.

Re: At what point would a skins fan be justified in calling for Gibbs' resignation?
 

Honestly guys, how much more success have we had with all the other coaches??? Atleast with Gibbs we went to the playoffs, and the players and the fans believe in something.

This is a stupid thread.

Re: At what point would a skins fan be justified in calling for Gibbs' resignation?
 

[quote=TAFKAS;245736]Could you imagine being Dan Snyder in this situation? I mean put aside any hatred you may have for the man (and by you, I mean the general Warpath public, not you specifically RiggoRules). Just think of what it would be like to idolize someone growing up and the next thing you know you're his boss. I couldn't fathom that. Having a "hero" report to me. And then face the possibility of having to make a hard decision like saying he's not getting the job done[/quote]

Glad you clarified that, Tafkas. I'm actually in the minority who (while certainly disagreeing with a number of his decisions) has nothing but respect for Snyder.

That said, you are 100% correct. Being the boss of someone who isn't just a hero to you but a hero to a very large percentage of your customers -- that would be major stress.

Re: At what point would a skins fan be justified in calling for Gibbs' resignation?
 

Gibbs is a hall of famer.With that being said.... I think he is intent on honoring all 5 years on his contract. I think the move to JC may show intent on staying. Reload and give it one more shot with JC running the show. That is if JC actually pans out and time will only tell.

Re: At what point would a skins fan be justified in calling for Gibbs' resignation?
 

Never.

Re: At what point would a skins fan be justified in calling for Gibbs' resignation?
 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I kind of think the only time you'd ever want to change your head coach is if you can get somebody better than the guy you have now.

Um... who's better than Joe Gibbs?

Williams? Saunders? Charlie Weis? I don't think so. He stays until someone better is available. And I think you'll have a hard time finding one.

Re: At what point would a skins fan be justified in calling for Gibbs' resignation?
 

blame the owner not the coach/team president...joe gibbs will be here until this ship is headed in the right direction and once it,s headed that way he may even have second thoughts until he wins another SB.
joe gibbs has and always will be extremely loyal to his veteran players brunell is the the exception...so i,m no yes man i will ride it out for as long as it takes to get this proud franchise back where it truly belongs and this franchise will have joe gibbs in it when it does come around...
when will it be time ..i,ll let joe gibbs decide for himself when and if that time comes but until then he will stay until he gets it right if not then maybe it ,s time....

and thats my 2cents worth..

Re: At what point would a skins fan be justified in calling for Gibbs' resignation?
 

[quote=freddyg12;245712]brian billick - offensive genius w/poor offense
m. Lewis - def. guru w/poor defense
tuna - discipinarian whose team is among league leaders in penalties & who is just over .500 since coaching cowpokes
j. gruden - struggling O even when simms was healthy

You are aware Gibbs and the Skins have all the same problems with the exception of Gruden.

Gruden only had Simms for 3 games this year.

Re: At what point would a skins fan be justified in calling for Gibbs' resignation?
 

When hell freezes over...so I am a yes man as well.

As I have said before when you run Joe Gibbs out of town you may as well board up Redskins Park becasue Joe Gibbs IS the Redskins.

If i have to trample on Joe Gibbs to win Super Bowl #4 then I am content to stick with only 3. And I am a season ticket holder also so i put my money where my mouth is...

Re: At what point would a skins fan be justified in calling for Gibbs' resignation?
 

[QUOTE=724Skinsfan;245661]The point at which Gibbs is caught late night at the Watergate Hotel handing over Saunder's 700 page playbook to 31 represenatatives of the other NFL franchises late at night wearing a diaper and covered in peanut butter and Hershey's Chocolate Magic Shell. At that point a fan would be justified in calling for his resignation.[/QUOTE]

Unless he has an excuse.

Re: At what point would a skins fan be justified in calling for Gibbs' resignation?
 

[QUOTE=Schneed10;245936]Correct me if I'm wrong, but I kind of think the only time you'd ever want to change your head coach is if you can get somebody better than the guy you have now.

Um... who's better than Joe Gibbs?

Williams? Saunders? Charlie Weis? I don't think so. He stays until someone better is available. And I think you'll have a hard time finding one.[/QUOTE]


Exactly!

I hope Gibbs stays for the remainder of his contract. And if He wants to stay longer give Him a new one. Sure we my not be playing good football right now. But does anyone really believe there’s a coach out there that could do a better job the Joe Gibbs?? Are beloved franchise has sucked since Joe left in 92’. This is only his third year back Joe Gibbs is not God. Give the man a break. He is working his ass off and his hard work will pay off eventually. HTTR

Re: At what point would a skins fan be justified in calling for Gibbs' resignation?
 

PB and chocolate, who among us can say no?

Re: At what point would a skins fan be justified in calling for Gibbs' resignation?
 

[QUOTE=hooskins;245866]Honestly guys, how much more success have we had with all the other coaches??? Atleast with Gibbs we went to the playoffs, and the players and the fans believe in something.

This is a stupid thread.[/QUOTE]

That's precisely the point. If there's no improvement on offense next year, this "belief" that you are getting all wet about ...misplaced may be (as Yoda would say). No one on this thread is calling for Gibbs' head, yet.

Re: At what point would a skins fan be justified in calling for Gibbs' resignation?
 

You can call for his resignations if he is medically unfit to perform his duties (i.e. he's declared senile).

Re: At what point would a skins fan be justified in calling for Gibbs' resignation?
 

I'm not going anywhere folks. I'm going to continue to fight my guts out for you guys. You guys are the best fans in the world, you're doing your job right now but I'm not getting it done.

Re: At what point would a skins fan be justified in calling for Gibbs' resignation?
 

[QUOTE=CoachGibbs;246043]I'm not going anywhere folks. I'm going to continue to fight my guts out for you guys. You guys are the best fans in the world, you're doing your job right now but I'm not getting it done.[/QUOTE]

Coach...question...at what point did you get so faint of heart that you couldn't bear to watch nail biting finishes and last minute field goals?

Re: At what point would a skins fan be justified in calling for Gibbs' resignation?
 

[quote=hurrykaine;246065]Coach...question...at what point did you get so faint of heart that you couldn't bear to watch nail biting finishes and last minute field goals?[/quote]

Look, Nick is a great kid, he really fights his guts out for us, but have you seen him kick?

Believe me you wouldn't be able to watch either.

Re: At what point would a skins fan be justified in calling for Gibbs' resignation?
 

[quote=hurrykaine;245621]I understand the need for continuity in coaching staff and players, but our offense in Gibbs 2.0 has been pi$$ poor for the most part. We love Gibbs for what he accomplished in his first stint and honor him for it, but to not have an offensive identity (other than the 5yd dink and dump pass on 3rd and 13) for over two years is clearly Gibbs' fault. Gibbs can still manage people well, but what if this team fails to make the playoffs next year? Are we then justified in calling for his head? 4 years with a losing record in 3 of them and a bunch of aging overpaid vets is reason enough to get anybody canned.

Gibbs got all the players he wanted to make a championship run last year and this year. He picked an aging vet QB and stuck with him, negating all the young talent we have at WR and TE. Buges has underachieved with our offensive line.

He sure has picked a bunch of nice high character guys that won't implode on a team, but you can't claim that as a victory when the goal was to reach the super bowl. Brunell and others saying anything short of the super bowl this year would be a disappointment????!! What gave them the idea at the beginning of the year that we were going to be good enough to reach anywhere near the SB?[/quote]

This is a great thread! Gibbs whole style since his return has been a conservative, play not to lose football. Throw 5 yard dink passes and hope the WR's can run after the catch. If I remember correctly his first go around he threw it downfield several times a game. So I'm not sure what the hell he is doing now. Plus his personel moves have not been very good. It's too early to talk about next year but it would be safe to say that this team needs to take a couple steps back before they can take one step forward. I say he gets the full five years on this contract.

Re: At what point would a skins fan be justified in calling for Gibbs' resignation?
 

[quote=skinsfan69;246104]This is a great thread! Gibbs whole style since his return has been a conservative, play not to lose football. Throw 5 yard dink passes and hope the WR's can run after the catch. If I remember correctly his first go around he threw it downfield several times a game. So I'm not sure what the hell he is doing now. Plus his personel moves have not been very good. It's too early to talk about next year but it would be safe to say that this team needs to take a couple steps back before they can take one step forward. I say he gets the full five years on this contract.[/quote]

How true! Great Post!

Re: At what point would a skins fan be justified in calling for Gibbs' resignation?
 

I haven't soured on him, but he does seem to let too many other people make too many important decisions for him :(. if he's willing to oversee the rebuilding, I can go along with that... cutting vinny and getting a polian or pioli or wolf or beathard type to run the GM side of things would make me feel a lot better about the whole situation though... as well as cutting the fat on this staff.

Re: At what point would a skins fan be justified in calling for Gibbs' resignation?
 

Joe Gibbs can go 3-13 this year and 0-16 next year, but you will never hear me call me for his resignation. If that unfortunate scenario was to happen, it would not be his fault, it would be Daniel Snyder.

You people who think that Joe Gibbs is a senile old man are crazy. It was just last year we went to the Divisional Round of the playoffs. Come on, lets be real. You cannot be a true fan if you are calling for Gibbs' resignation.

Re: At what point would a skins fan be justified in calling for Gibbs' resignation?
 

[quote=hurrykaine;245621]I understand the need for continuity in coaching staff and players, but our offense in Gibbs 2.0 has been pi$$ poor for the most part. We love Gibbs for what he accomplished in his first stint and honor him for it, but to not have an offensive identity (other than the 5yd dink and dump pass on 3rd and 13) for over two years is clearly Gibbs' fault. Gibbs can still manage people well, but what if this team fails to make the playoffs next year? Are we then justified in calling for his head? 4 years with a losing record in 3 of them and a bunch of aging overpaid vets is reason enough to get anybody canned.

Gibbs got all the players he wanted to make a championship run last year and this year. He picked an aging vet QB and stuck with him, negating all the young talent we have at WR and TE. Buges has underachieved with our offensive line.

He sure has picked a bunch of nice high character guys that won't implode on a team, but you can't claim that as a victory when the goal was to reach the super bowl. Brunell and others saying anything short of the super bowl this year would be a disappointment????!! What gave them the idea at the beginning of the year that we were going to be good enough to reach anywhere near the SB?[/quote]

I have a lot of respect for Joe as a person and a as a coach, I think given the receivers he has this year on the team, and if he remained as the coach calling the plays and if he had not brought Saunders into the team, who knows how the offense might have done this year.

However, I have seen the look in his face during games when the team has won and he reacts like the team just won the superbowl. When the games are really close and come down to a last play he reacts like the team is going to lose rather than showing enough confidence that the players are going to do their job and pull out a win.

I wonder if the players have picked up on that and they follow that lead??