Re: Jansen's Future in Doubt?
 

[QUOTE=Schneed10;274031]But restructuring deals do not involve any sweetening of the pot. The player still gets the exact amount of money his contract says he gets. Take Jansen for example. He's supposed to make $4.5 million or whatever in base salary this season. A restructure means they give him $4.0 million as a signing bonus right now, in a lumpsum payment, and pay him the other $500,000 in game checks starting in the fall. This is a lot better than waiting until the fall to collect the $4.5 million in game checks. But it's still the same amount of money.

Possible reasons things would go south with Jansen:
- He doesn't want to be a Redskin anymore, so he won't help the team out with a simple restructure.
- He's demanding a pay raise, and is threatening to hold out.
- The team thinks he's garbage and is asking him to take a paycut.

I don't see any reason to believe any of those scenarios are the case. They're certainly plausible, but until I hear something more substantial than La Canfora's speculation in his little blog, I'm going under the assumption that things are just fine with Jansen.

The Philly media built a mountain out of a molehill with Donovan McNabb's apparent unhappiness with the team. Same thing is happening here, though to a lesser extent. Media sensationalization at its best.[/QUOTE]

Correct if I wrong, but I thought in order to get a decent amount of cap relief in a restructuring deal you have to extend a contract by a couple of years. You will not get much relief if you keep the same amount of money over the same amount of time. You might get relief for the first year, but you will have even a worse problem the next year unless you extend the contract. If extending the length of the contract is needed, not every player will want that. That is where sweetening the deal or enticement comes into play.
Either way at some point the bonus money has to count against the cap. Pay me now or pay me later, the Skins will have to dedicate signing bonus money to the cap sooner or later.
I do not like this game of hide and seek with the cap. We were a below .500 team in 2006 and we are over the cap. Not very good player or money management skills.
Some are so in awe over Snyder and his cap skills. I frankly think it is not a very good example how to run a successful NFL team. The proof was on the field in 2006.

Re: Jansen's Future in Doubt?
 

[quote=Defensewins;274047]Correct if I wrong, but I thought in order to get a decent amount of cap relief in a restructuring deal you have to extend a contract by a couple of years. You will not get much relief if you keep the same amount of money over the same amount of time. You might get relief for the first year, but you will have even a worse problem the next year unless you extend the contract. If extending the length of the contract is needed, not every player will want that. That is where sweetening the deal or enticement comes into play.
Either way at some point the bonus money has to count against the cap. Pay me now or pay me later, the Skins will have to dedicate signing bonus money to the cap sooner or later.
I do not like this game of hide and seek with the cap. We were a below .500 team in 2006 and we are over the cap. Not very good player or money management skills.
Some are so in awe over Snyder and his cap skills. I frankly think it is not a very good example how to run a successful NFL team. The proof was on the field in 2006.[/quote]

You are wrong in a general sense, but right when it comes to Jansen, and I didn't think of this before, so I beg your pardon.

You don't always have to extend a contract to get cap relief. Let's continue with the example of converting $4 million from base salary into signing bonus. If the player has 4 years left on the deal, then that signing bonus allocates out to $1 million per season. So you took that $4 million and reduced it down to $1 million in the present year, saving $3 million in cap space. Yes, you'd have to absorb an extra million in each of the future years remaining on the contract.

But Jansen is only signed through 2008 (two more years), so taking that $4 million, we'd spread the hit over only 2 years. This would make his cap figure drop by $2 million this season, but increase by $2 million next season. At that point his 2008 cap figure would be high: $8.3 million. And the team likely doesn't want to do that. You're right, they're probably trying to think about extending him. And that could get hairy. And since they could save $2.6 million in cap space by cutting him this season, they are probably in position to let Jansen bring his price down (and if he doesn't, just cut him).

Thanks for keeping me on my Ps and Qs when it comes to Jansen. Now I can definitely see how the team may run into a problem with him. He might want a big bonus to extend, and the team might not like that idea. I can definitely see how it'd get sticky. (public apology and retraction of my previous criticism of LaCanfora goes here).

After thinking on the cap situation further, definitely seems like a real possibility Jansen will be gone. It all depends on their ability to agree on reasonable extension terms.

I still don't understand the issues with Springs though.

Re: Jansen's Future in Doubt?
 

restructuring is doing the team a favor, so generally, you get more money for helping them out (unless you're really in danger of being cut and losing real money due to your contract and your poor performance).

whether your willing to restructure or not doesn't necessarily have that much to do with wanting to be a redskin. If the FO was more careful in contract valuations and budgeting, they wouldn't need to beg the players to rework their deals every year.

and why wouldn't a player rather get more money up front? cause the backloaded portion makes him much more likely to get cut later, or be subjected to yearly restructures to continually extend the bacloaded year from coming due.

Re: Jansen's Future in Doubt?
 

He's not going anywhere, unless Joe2 decides to let him go.

Re: Jansen's Future in Doubt?
 

[quote=That Guy;274060]restructuring is doing the team a favor, so generally, [B]you get more money for helping them out[/B] (unless you're really in danger of being cut and losing real money due to your contract and your poor performance).[/quote]

This isn't true. At least not with the 'Skins. All of our restructures last year were simple restructures. The net impact to cash flow was 0. Each player accepted their base salaries up front in a lump sum payment. They didn't get any more $ than their contract called for.

You run into trouble when a player is nearing the end of his contract. If you want to clear salary cap for those players, you need to extend them.

Re: Jansen's Future in Doubt?
 

For those who still think his future is in doubt...its allegedly being reported on Comcast that Jansen signed a four year extension worth 22 million dollars.

EDIT:

[url=http://midatlantic.comcastsportsnet.com/view_content_0p.asp?ID=44621]Welcome to Comcast SportsNet[/url]

Done deal

Re: Jansen's Future in Doubt?
 

This seems like an immediate cap relief move more than anything. Looks like we will save ~3 million for this year. Still, this could just be a move to soften the blow of losing Dockery, should it come to that.

I don't like the idea of paying a guy who had a subpar season with multiple years left on his deal, but if the alternative was to cut him, I agree with the road they've taken.

Re: Jansen's Future in Doubt?
 

thats a good move. i'm glad he wants to stay and i'm glad that the skins gave him a good deal. i wonder how much money this move saves the on the skins cap ?

Re: Jansen's Future in Doubt?
 

lets hope this trend continues (dockery)

Re: Jansen's Future in Doubt?
 

How many sacks did jansen give up this year? I know he didnt have a pro bowl season, but he will probaly be more comfortable next season and do even better.

Re: Jansen's Future in Doubt?
 

[quote=GTripp0012;275111]This seems like an immediate cap relief move more than anything. Looks like we will save ~3 million for this year. Still, this could just be a move to soften the blow of losing Dockery, should it come to that.

I don't like the idea of paying a guy who had a subpar season with multiple years left on his deal, but if the alternative was to cut him, I agree with the road they've taken.[/quote]

If they choose Jansen over Dockery the front office is even more pathetic then I thought.

Re: Jansen's Future in Doubt?
 

This move likely frees approximately $3.5 million in salary cap space for 2007. Dockery's 2007 cap number, when signed, will likely come in under $3.5 million against the cap.

It appears that the team may have been hesitant to finalize a deal with Dockery until they had an agreement with Jansen to clear cap space. Jansen was the first domino in the line, Dock should be next.

Re: Jansen's Future in Doubt?
 

[quote=Schneed10;275148]This move likely frees approximately $3.5 million in salary cap space for 2007. Dockery's 2007 cap number, when signed, will likely come in under $3.5 million against the cap.

It appears that the team may have been hesitant to finalize a deal with Dockery until they had an agreement with Jansen to clear cap space. Jansen was the first domino in the line, Dock should be next.[/quote]

That move showed commitment to the team. He basically took a paycut (of course he will get more guaranteed money but still).

Re: Jansen's Future in Doubt?
 

[quote=Schneed10;275148]This move likely frees approximately $3.5 million in salary cap space for 2007. Dockery's 2007 cap number, when signed, will likely come in under $3.5 million against the cap.

It appears that the team may have been hesitant to finalize a deal with Dockery until they had an agreement with Jansen to clear cap space. Jansen was the first domino in the line, Dock should be next.[/quote]

Yeah sounds pretty logical to me.

Re: Jansen's Future in Doubt?
 

[quote=SkinEmAll;275136]How many sacks did jansen give up this year? I know he didnt have a pro bowl season, but he will probaly be more comfortable next season and do even better.[/quote]

I can remember both bookends having bad games but statistically the line was one of the best even with Rex or Mark (whatever his name is) starting all of those games.

Re: Jansen's Future in Doubt?
 

Jansen is also a LEADER on this team. We need him in the locker room and in the game to fire up the guys. He has been a Redskin his whole career, so I hope this deal keeps him here 'til he retires. The move was made so that we could re sign Dock. Watch...it's coming next. And by the way..
Dallas Sucks.

Re: Jansen's Future in Doubt?
 

[quote=Schneed10;274066]This isn't true. At least not with the 'Skins. All of our restructures last year were simple restructures. The net impact to cash flow was 0. Each player accepted their base salaries up front in a lump sum payment. They didn't get any more $ than their contract called for.

You run into trouble when a player is nearing the end of his contract. If you want to clear salary cap for those players, you need to extend them.[/quote]

well, you missed where i said generally, or the post i was responding too. but for example, jansen's restructure added a whole lot more money to the pot for him with the extra years.

Re: Jansen's Future in Doubt?
 

[quote=Grim21Reaper;275150]That move showed commitment to the team. He basically took a paycut (of course he will get more guaranteed money but still).[/quote]

No, definitely not a paycut. I don't know why you're saying that?

He was due just over $8 million in base salary over 2007 and 2008. I haven't seen the terms, but my guess is his signing bonus with this extension will be in that range ($8 million or so). He'll then have vet minimum salaries for the first two or three years, and then the contract will be largely backloaded.

It's probably one of those 5 year deals that are only supposed to last 3 years before they're either restructured or he's let go. But it's definitely not a paycut.

Re: Jansen's Future in Doubt?
 

[quote=That Guy;275188]well, you missed where i said generally, or the post i was responding too. but for example, jansen's restructure added a whole lot more money to the pot for him with the extra years.[/quote]

That comment was a while ago, I don't quite remember what we were talking about. But yeah, when a contract is backloaded like ours always are, you have two choices: extend the contract or cut the player. There's always a third option: try to get the player to accept a paycut. That hardly ever goes over well, though.

Re: Jansen's Future in Doubt?
 

[quote=Schneed10;275192]No, definitely not a paycut. I don't know why you're saying that?

He was due just over $8 million in base salary over 2007 and 2008. I haven't seen the terms, but my guess is his signing bonus with this extension will be in that range ($8 million or so). He'll then have vet minimum salaries for the first two or three years, and then the contract will be largely backloaded.

It's probably one of those 5 year deals that are only supposed to last 3 years before they're either restructured or he's let go. But it's definitely not a paycut.[/quote]


His current deal was due to pay him 4.25 and 4.75 in salary for 07 and 08. His cap number was 5.85 and 6.35 respectively. The new deal averages 4.4 and I would suspect that it is a typical large bonus/backloaded deal so he will never see the big salaries in the contract. I have no idea what the numbers are but I would expect a salary of 1 or two million for the first two years so he did take a paycut from a salary perspective.

Re: Jansen's Future in Doubt?
 

[QUOTE=Grim21Reaper;275329]His current deal was due to pay him 4.25 and 4.75 in salary for 07 and 08. His cap number was 5.85 and 6.35 respectively. The new deal averages 4.4 and I would suspect that it is a typical large bonus/backloaded deal so he will never see the big salaries in the contract. [B] I have no idea what the numbers are but I would expect a salary of 1 or two million for the first two years so he did take a paycut from a salary perspective[/B].[/QUOTE]

That's the whole point of an extension/restructure - Lower the salary (which is the hard number directly applicable to the cap) by converting it to signing bonus. As Schneed said, he is probably getting vet minimum these first couple years. To say he is taking a "pay cut" by restructuring and refering only to the salary is akin to saying that, because the sun is out, there will be light. Or, in a more simplistic response - Duhhh!!

In fact, if this had been a straight restructure, his "salary" would have been cut by about 3 million as that would have been converted to bonus money and the bonus money then prorated over the remaining contract period. By signing the extension, however, the bonus money gets prorated over a longer period then if he done a straight restructure. Under the straight restructure, and w/out looking a the cap sheets, I expect their would not have been much cap relief.

Re: Jansen's Future in Doubt?
 

Great move! Jansen seamed to really pick it up in the second half of the season. Retaining John on the O line is a great move, he's a proven leader on and off the field. Let's keep the trend of holding on to "CORE REDSKINS"....not pickin up another overpriced free agent, that turns out to be another boat anchor.

Re: Jansen's Future in Doubt?
 

[quote=JoeRedskin;275331]That's the whole point of an extension/restructure - Lower the salary (which is the hard number directly applicable to the cap) by converting it to signing bonus. As Schneed said, he is probably getting vet minimum these first couple years. To say he is taking a "pay cut" by restructuring and refering only to the salary is akin to saying that, because the sun is out, there will be light. Or, in a more simplistic response - Duhhh!!

In fact, if this had been a straight restructure, his "salary" would have been cut by about 3 million as that would have been converted to bonus money and the bonus money then prorated over the remaining contract period. By signing the extension, however, the bonus money gets prorated over a longer period then if he done a straight restructure. Under the straight restructure, and w/out looking a the cap sheets, I expect their would not have been much cap relief.[/quote]

Thank you for the clarification, Joe Mendes, but I think that most of the people on the site (including me) understand why the team restructures and extends. Of course restructuring the current deal has nothing to do with this scenario and your hypothetical restructuring would be an idiotic move as it would leave the Redskins without a right tackle and with a 4.6 million dollar dead cap hit for '08. "Duhhh!!"

My original comment was that Jansen took a pay cut (meaning he took less money to help out the team). That is a fairly open ended statement so I can understand why Schneed would disagree. Here is the scenario from my perspective:

Jansen was scheduled to make $5.85 MM and $6.35 MM respectively in 2007 and 2008 (if they kept him). Obviously, the team felt that those salaries are too high.

Jansen's last deal was effectively 4 years for $15.428 or $3.86 million per year (pretty reasonable actually).

For argument's sake let's say his new contract was a straight line deal or $4.6M per year. Is that a paycut from 5.85 and 6.35, Yes. Is it a paycut from the context of his old deal, No (but it depends on your viewpoint).

The new deal pays 10 for a bonus. That is a base of 2.2 over 5 years and he gets the minimum for the first two (670M) or an average of 2.87 per year. Well, you don't have to be JoeRedskin to figure out that 2.87 is a paycut from 5.85 and 6.35. Now, the real question is what the salary amount is in years 3 -5. If they in fact pay the league minimum for 1 and 2 that leaves 10.66MM of salary to allocate over 3 years. I am guessing the salaries will be approximately 3 million in year 3, 3.66 million in year 4 and 4 million in year 5. If they keep him for 3 years the effective contract will be approximately 3 years for $ 14.34MM or 4.78 per year.

Is he getting more than he did in his old deal? Yes. Is it less than 5.85 and 6.35? Obviously. Is that a "pay cut". I would say that a difference of 2.98MM and 3.48MM respectively is but I can also see what Schneed is looking at as well. At the end of the day if he signs a deal that lets them pay him the veteran minimum in '07 and '08 that is a huge help to the team with the cap moving higher and higher over time.

Re: Jansen's Future in Doubt?
 

I wonder if they are betting that the Rock retires before the last year. I am curious to see what the last two years look like in this deal.

Re: Jansen's Future in Doubt?
 

[quote=Grim21Reaper;275355]Thank you for the clarification, Joe Mendes, but I think that most of the people on the site (including me) understand why the team restructures and extends. Of course restructuring the current deal has nothing to do with this scenario and your hypothetical restructuring would be an idiotic move as it would leave the Redskins without a right tackle and with a 4.6 million dollar dead cap hit for '08. "Duhhh!!"

My original comment was that Jansen took a pay cut (meaning he took less money to help out the team). That is a fairly open ended statement so I can understand why Schneed would disagree. Here is the scenario from my perspective:

[B] Jansen was scheduled to make $5.85 MM and $6.35 MM respectively in 2007 and 2008 (if they kept him).[/B] Obviously, the team felt that those salaries are too high.

Jansen's last deal was effectively 4 years for $15.428 or $3.86 million per year (pretty reasonable actually).

For argument's sake let's say his new contract was a straight line deal or $4.6M per year. [B]Is that a paycut from 5.85 and 6.35[/B], Yes. Is it a paycut from the context of his old deal, No (but it depends on your viewpoint).

The new deal pays 10 for a bonus. That is a base of 2.2 over 5 years and he gets the minimum for the first two (670M) or an average of 2.87 per year. Well, you don't have to be JoeRedskin to figure out that 2.87 is a paycut from 5.85 and 6.35. Now, the real question is what the salary amount is in years 3 -5. If they in fact pay the league minimum for 1 and 2 that leaves 10.66MM of salary to allocate over 3 years. I am guessing the salaries will be approximately 3 million in year 3, 3.66 million in year 4 and 4 million in year 5. If they keep him for 3 years the effective contract will be approximately 3 years for $ 14.34MM or 4.78 per year.

Is he getting more than he did in his old deal? Yes. Is it less than 5.85 and 6.35? Obviously. Is that a "pay cut". I would say that a difference of 2.98MM and 3.48MM respectively is but I can also see what Schneed is looking at as well. At the end of the day if he signs a deal that lets them pay him the veteran minimum in '07 and '08 that is a huge help to the team with the cap moving higher and higher over time.[/quote]

I've bolded the statements showing where your reasoning is off. Jansen's [B]CAP NUMBER[/B] was 5.85 and 6.35 in 2008. That does not mean he was going to get paid that much. Included in those numbers is the signing bonus he received when he first signed the deal 3 or 4 years ago. He was only scheduled to make somewhere between 4 and 5 million in base salary each of 2007 and 2008. So instead of making something like $9 million over those two years, he's now making $10 million in the signing bonus, plus another $500K in vet minimum salaries each year.

It's a pay raise.

Don't get cap numbers confused with cash flows.

Re: Jansen's Future in Doubt?
 

[QUOTE=Grim21Reaper;275355]Thank you for the clarification, Joe Mendes, but I think that most of the people on the site (including me) understand why the team restructures and extends. Of course restructuring the current deal has nothing to do with this scenario and your hypothetical restructuring would be an idiotic move as it would leave the Redskins without a right tackle and with a 4.6 million dollar dead cap hit for '08. "Duhhh!!"

[B]My original comment was that Jansen took a pay cut (meaning he took less money to help out the team).[/B] That is a fairly open ended statement so I can understand why Schneed would disagree. Here is the scenario from my perspective:

Jansen was scheduled to make $5.85 MM and $6.35 MM respectively in 2007 and 2008 (if they kept him). Obviously, the team felt that those salaries are too high.

...

Is he getting more than he did in his old deal? Yes. Is it less than 5.85 and 6.35? Obviously. Is that a "pay cut". I would say that a difference of 2.98MM and 3.48MM respectively is but I can also see what Schneed is looking at as well. At the end of the day if he signs a deal that lets them pay him the veteran minimum in '07 and '08 that is a huge help to the team with the cap moving higher and higher over time.[/QUOTE]


As schneed has pointed out, you're looking at cash flow - not salary (which seems to me to contradict your statement that you get the purpose of restructuring). As for the everyone getting it - so sorry, didn't mean to intrude upon your brilliance. It just seemed to me that you were indicating that Jansen was somehow taking less money under the new deal than with the extension which simply does not follow. No need to get belligerent.

Re: Jansen's Future in Doubt?
 

[quote=Schneed10;275371]I've bolded the statements showing where your reasoning is off. Jansen's [B]CAP NUMBER[/B] was 5.85 and 6.35 in 2008. That does not mean he was going to get paid that much. Included in those numbers is the signing bonus he received when he first signed the deal 3 or 4 years ago. He was only scheduled to make somewhere between 4 and 5 million in base salary each of 2007 and 2008. So instead of making something like $9 million over those two years, he's now making $10 million in the signing bonus, plus another $500K in vet minimum salaries each year.

It's a pay raise.

Don't get cap numbers confused with cash flows.[/quote]

[I]Jansen's [B]CAP NUMBER[/B] was 5.85 and 6.35 in 2008. That does not mean he was going to get paid that much.[/I]

If they had not extended and they kept him on the roster that was how much he would have been paid. He has already received the bonuses of 1.65 and 1.65. If they had not touched his deal he would have received salary of 4.25 in '07 and 4.75 in '08. Just because he received the bonus in a lump sum up front doesn't mean that the cap number isn't what they are paid.

Cash flow is irrelevant because in most cases the bonuses are paid up front. Going purely on cash flow, Jansen will receive a check for 10.67 this year (depending on how the bonuses are structured) but his cap number could be close to a minimum salary if that is how they want it. Going by cash flow he will probably only receive 670 thousand next year. Does that mean he took a pay cut from year one? No.

The only number that matters is the guaranteed money. That is why every year some people claim that the Redskins are in cap hell and next thing you know Redskin 1 is flying in 5 free agents.

I view it as a paycut because he was under contract to make a total of 9 million in salary for '07 and '08 and he will never see that money. That is how the Redskins get away with it year in and out. They give the player up front money that they can spread out over several years and then cut the player before the big salaries hit. The smaller market teams do not have the cash to give big bonuses and backloaded contracts. That was one of the stumbling blocks between the owners in the CBA.

The key to the Redskins philosophy is an increasing cap number and an extremely profitable team. As long as those trends continue, they can continue to continue the status quo.

Re: Jansen's Future in Doubt?
 

[quote=Grim21Reaper;275355]Thank you for the clarification, Joe Mendes, but I think that most of the people on the site (including me) understand why the team restructures and extends. Of course restructuring the current deal has nothing to do with this scenario and your hypothetical restructuring would be an idiotic move as it would leave the Redskins without a right tackle and with a 4.6 million dollar dead cap hit for '08. "Duhhh!!"

My original comment was that Jansen took a pay cut (meaning he took less money to help out the team). That is a fairly open ended statement so I can understand why Schneed would disagree. Here is the scenario from my perspective:

Jansen was scheduled to make $5.85 MM and $6.35 MM respectively in 2007 and 2008 (if they kept him). Obviously, the team felt that those salaries are too high.

Jansen's last deal was effectively 4 years for $15.428 or $3.86 million per year (pretty reasonable actually).

For argument's sake let's say his new contract was a straight line deal or $4.6M per year. Is that a paycut from 5.85 and 6.35, Yes. Is it a paycut from the context of his old deal, No (but it depends on your viewpoint).

The new deal pays 10 for a bonus. That is a base of 2.2 over 5 years and he gets the minimum for the first two (670M) or an average of 2.87 per year. Well, you don't have to be JoeRedskin to figure out that 2.87 is a paycut from 5.85 and 6.35. Now, the real question is what the salary amount is in years 3 -5. If they in fact pay the league minimum for 1 and 2 that leaves 10.66MM of salary to allocate over 3 years. I am guessing the salaries will be approximately 3 million in year 3, 3.66 million in year 4 and 4 million in year 5. If they keep him for 3 years the effective contract will be approximately 3 years for $ 14.34MM or 4.78 per year.

Is he getting more than he did in his old deal? Yes. Is it less than 5.85 and 6.35? Obviously. Is that a "pay cut". I would say that a difference of 2.98MM and 3.48MM respectively is but I can also see what Schneed is looking at as well. At the end of the day if he signs a deal that lets them pay him the veteran minimum in '07 and '08 that is a huge help to the team with the cap moving higher and higher over time.[/quote]

What ever happened to Joe Mendes? Didn't he get the boot becasue he was standing up to Danny Boi and Vinny?

Re: Jansen's Future in Doubt?
 

[quote=skinsfan69;275379]What ever happened to Joe Mendes? Didn't he get the boot becasue he was standing up to Danny Boi and Vinny?[/quote]

I saw some article on him. I thought he quit because he was exhausted. If I was the Redskins cap guy, I would be exhausted too...

Re: Jansen's Future in Doubt?
 

this kid was our cap [url=http://celebrity.blogdig.net/archives/articles/January2007/27/Kate_Winslet_and_Joe_Mendes_in_NYC.html]guru[/url]? Damn!!

Seriously though, I think he's a consultant now. When he "quit" it really looked like someone, Beathard?, might have been coming on board. That, obviously, never happened

Re: Jansen's Future in Doubt?
 

Just heard Jansen restructered(sp) for 5 or 7 years 23 Mil....the numbers may be a little off but it was on 910 Sports Radio bout 2 hours ago!

HTTR!

Re: Jansen's Future in Doubt?
 

Could be old....heres link.

[url=http://www.redskins.com/news/newsDetail.jsp?id=24722]Jansen: Contract Extension[/url]

Re: Jansen's Future in Doubt?
 

[quote=Grim21Reaper;275378][B]If they had not extended and they kept him on the roster that was how much he would have been paid.[/B] He has already received the bonuses of 1.65 and 1.65. If they had not touched his deal he would have received salary of 4.25 in '07 and 4.75 in '08. Just because he received the bonus in a lump sum up front doesn't mean that the cap number isn't what they are paid.[/quote]

Wrong. He would have been paid $9 million over the next two years. It's quite simple. What Jansen has been paid in 2006 and years prior is now irrelevant. Those years have come and gone. What matters is what he's going to be paid FROM NOW ON. Was scheduled for $9 million, and instead he'll make $11 million in the next two years.

But if you want, I'll indulge you and factor in what he previously made:

Even if you just want to look at guaranteed money only, this is still a boost. His old contract was a 6 year deal with a $7.5 million signing bonus. He played only 4 years of the contract. So $7.5 million divided by 4, that's $1.875 million per year. This new contract is a 5 year deal with a $10 million bonus, or $2 million per season (and that's [B]IF[/B] he plays out the whole contract, which he likely won't).

Or we can evaluate what Jansen made (bonus and salary) in his 4 years under his old contract, and divide by four. He had the $7.5 million bonus, and made another $7 million in base salaries over that time. Total income was $14.5 million, divided by 4 years, that's $3.625 million per season. Under this 5 year extension, total contract value is $23 million over 5 years, or $4.6 million per season. A pay increase. He might never see the last two years of this deal. In that case it would be a 3 year deal, allocating the $10 million signing bonus, that would be $3.3 million per year in bonus alone. Add on vet minimum base salaries on top of that, at $700K each year, that's $4 million per season. Still greater than the $3.625 million he actually collected each season under his old contract.

It's a pay raise no matter how you look at it.

Re: Jansen's Future in Doubt?
 

Here's some more contract details from La Canfora:

Bascially, the Skins will end up cutting Jansen's cap figure from what would have been around $5.4 million to about $1.7, but at a steep price. He had two years left on his deal and as it stands they could very well be re-doing this deal again two years from now given Jon's age and the money associated with the contract.

Instead of making $4.25 in base salary in 2007 - all of which counts against the cap - Jon will make the vet. min of around $720,000 in base salary, but he will get $5 million to sign. So for him, isntead of making $4.25 this season, he's getting $5.7, plus, next March he gets a $5 million option bonus. So that's essentially $10.7 mill guaranteed on this 5 year, $22 million deal.

It makes complete sense for Jon to do this deal. For the Skins, I think it is much riskier. He is 31 and has been hurt a lot the last two years. He's a rock and plays through a ton of stuff, and never missed a game in his career before the Achille's tear in 2004, but still, he's getting up there for a guy in the trenches.

The Skins had to create cap room - again - and essentially bank on restructuring 4-10 deals every offseason. It's a strategy that has not worked to this point. But, according to sources, they made a lot of promises to Jon last year when they convinved him to alter his contract, and assured him he would be rewarded for his time here - he is the longest tenured Skin - in the 07 offseason if he played ball with them in 06. To their credit, they were true to their word, something several players have questioned on their way out of Ashburn in recent years.

Also, the Skins are trying to make a point of tying up key guys after letting "core Redskins" leave in recent years. In reality, however, their last contract with Jansen assured a new deal would be needed by 07 or 08. The way their build their cap, they can''t afford to carry too many players with high base salaries in any one season, and in 2007 the numbers get steep on a bunch of guys (Brunell, Portis, Springs, Griff, Marcus, Wynn, Daniels), so reworking deals was imperative.

Snyder is willing to continually front load deals with new bonuses in order to get various cap numbers lower, and that's a noble gesture, but it's also indicative of a team philosophy that lacks much long-term - or mid-term, vision, because they are always trying to buy their way out of one problem or another. And, to this point, it has precluded acquiring sufficient depth, which can loom large.

In the short term, it helps them get under the cap and begins to free up some space to get Dockery re-signed. Other players will look at this deal and likely expect the same treatment, however. It will be very interesting to watch Springs and Brunell in particular. Both of those restructuring efforts could be tricky.

Re: Jansen's Future in Doubt?
 

Glad to see LaCanfora was 100% WRONG with his red flags regarding Jansen.

Re: Jansen's Future in Doubt?
 

[quote=Mattyk72;275407]Here's some more contract details from La Canfora:

Bascially, the Skins will end up cutting Jansen's cap figure from what would have been around $5.4 million to about $1.7, but at a steep price. He had two years left on his deal and as it stands they could very well be re-doing this deal again two years from now given Jon's age and the money associated with the contract.

Instead of making $4.25 in base salary in 2007 - all of which counts against the cap - Jon will make the vet. min of around $720,000 in base salary, but he will get $5 million to sign. So for him, isntead of making $4.25 this season, he's getting $5.7, plus, next March he gets a $5 million option bonus. So that's essentially $10.7 mill guaranteed on this 5 year, $22 million deal.

It makes complete sense for Jon to do this deal. For the Skins, I think it is much riskier. He is 31 and has been hurt a lot the last two years. He's a rock and plays through a ton of stuff, and never missed a game in his career before the Achille's tear in 2004, but still, he's getting up there for a guy in the trenches.

The Skins had to create cap room - again - and essentially bank on restructuring 4-10 deals every offseason. It's a strategy that has not worked to this point. But, according to sources, they made a lot of promises to Jon last year when they convinved him to alter his contract, and assured him he would be rewarded for his time here - he is the longest tenured Skin - in the 07 offseason if he played ball with them in 06. To their credit, they were true to their word, something several players have questioned on their way out of Ashburn in recent years.

Also, the Skins are trying to make a point of tying up key guys after letting "core Redskins" leave in recent years. In reality, however, their last contract with Jansen assured a new deal would be needed by 07 or 08. The way their build their cap, they can''t afford to carry too many players with high base salaries in any one season, and in 2007 the numbers get steep on a bunch of guys (Brunell, Portis, Springs, Griff, Marcus, Wynn, Daniels), so reworking deals was imperative.

Snyder is willing to continually front load deals with new bonuses in order to get various cap numbers lower, and that's a noble gesture, but it's also indicative of a team philosophy that lacks much long-term - or mid-term, vision, because they are always trying to buy their way out of one problem or another. And, to this point, it has precluded acquiring sufficient depth, which can loom large.

In the short term, it helps them get under the cap and begins to free up some space to get Dockery re-signed. Other players will look at this deal and likely expect the same treatment, however. It will be very interesting to watch Springs and Brunell in particular. Both of those restructuring efforts could be tricky.[/quote]

Good stuff from LaCanfora. Our constant need to restructure is driven by the bonuses we hand out to so many players. We've handed out way more in bonus money than most teams, mainly because we sign the most free agents and draft the fewest rookies.

Drafting gives you the opportunity to find cheap talent and keep them on your books for 3, 4, 5 years with very low cap numbers. A more draft-centric approach would be much more cap-friendly. That to me is the root problem. We never have picks available, so we have to solve all of our problems through free agency. And that just digs us deeper into a salary cap hole.

We can continue to dig out of it. But we'd have more long-term cap flexibility if we had a few fewer free agents, and a few more quality draft picks. The Duckett trade was easily the most aggravating. We lost a 3rd round pick in that one (or at least the equivalent of a 3rd rounder) and for what? Hitting on a quality 3rd rounder sure would help our cap situation over the next few years.

Re: Jansen's Future in Doubt?
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;275407]Here's some more contract details from La Canfora:

Bascially, the Skins will end up cutting Jansen's cap figure from what would have been around $5.4 million to about $1.7, but at a steep price. He had two years left on his deal and as it stands they could very well be re-doing this deal again two years from now given Jon's age and the money associated with the contract.

Instead of making $4.25 in base salary in 2007 - all of which counts against the cap - Jon will make the vet. min of around $720,000 in base salary, but he will get $5 million to sign. So for him, isntead of making $4.25 this season, he's getting $5.7, plus, next March he gets a $5 million option bonus. So that's essentially $10.7 mill guaranteed on this 5 year, $22 million deal.

It makes complete sense for Jon to do this deal. For the Skins, I think it is much riskier. He is 31 and has been hurt a lot the last two years. He's a rock and plays through a ton of stuff, and never missed a game in his career before the Achille's tear in 2004, but still, he's getting up there for a guy in the trenches.

The Skins had to create cap room - again - and essentially bank on restructuring 4-10 deals every offseason. It's a strategy that has not worked to this point. But, according to sources, they made a lot of promises to Jon last year when they convinved him to alter his contract, and assured him he would be rewarded for his time here - he is the longest tenured Skin - in the 07 offseason if he played ball with them in 06. To their credit, they were true to their word, something several players have questioned on their way out of Ashburn in recent years.

Also, the Skins are trying to make a point of tying up key guys after letting "core Redskins" leave in recent years. In reality, however, their last contract with Jansen assured a new deal would be needed by 07 or 08. The way their build their cap, they can''t afford to carry too many players with high base salaries in any one season, and in 2007 the numbers get steep on a bunch of guys (Brunell, Portis, Springs, Griff, Marcus, Wynn, Daniels), so reworking deals was imperative.

Snyder is willing to continually front load deals with new bonuses in order to get various cap numbers lower, and that's a noble gesture, but it's also indicative of a team philosophy that lacks much long-term - or mid-term, vision, because they are always trying to buy their way out of one problem or another. And, to this point, it has precluded acquiring sufficient depth, which can loom large.

In the short term, it helps them get under the cap and begins to free up some space to get Dockery re-signed. Other players will look at this deal and likely expect the same treatment, however. It will be very interesting to watch Springs and Brunell in particular. Both of those restructuring efforts could be tricky.[/QUOTE]

Good stuff. Thanks Matty. And thanks to Schneed for "keeping em honest".

Re: Jansen's Future in Doubt?
 

[QUOTE=Schneed10;275414]The Duckett trade was easily the most aggravating. We lost a 3rd round pick in that one (or at least the equivalent of a 3rd rounder) and for what? Hitting on a quality 3rd rounder sure would help our cap situation over the next few years.[/QUOTE]

Although I understand the trade, in hindsight it does suck especially when you think that guys like Dockery and Cooley were 3rd rounders. It would be nice to have a lot more Dockerys and Cooleys on the team.

Re: Jansen's Future in Doubt?
 

[quote=Schneed10;275414]Good stuff from LaCanfora. Our constant need to restructure is driven by the bonuses we hand out to so many players. We've handed out way more in bonus money than most teams, mainly because we sign the most free agents and draft the fewest rookies.

Drafting gives you the opportunity to find cheap talent and keep them on your books for 3, 4, 5 years with very low cap numbers. A more draft-centric approach would be much more cap-friendly. That to me is the root problem. We never have picks available, so we have to solve all of our problems through free agency. And that just digs us deeper into a salary cap hole.

We can continue to dig out of it. But we'd have more long-term cap flexibility if we had a few fewer free agents, and a few more quality draft picks. The Duckett trade was easily the most aggravating. We lost a 3rd round pick in that one (or at least the equivalent of a 3rd rounder) and for what? Hitting on a quality 3rd rounder sure would help our cap situation over the next few years.[/quote]The worst part about it is, our college scouting department seems to know what they are doing. I'd bet that with more picks, and increased responsibility, they would pick their fair share of busts like any team would, but so far we have been pretty accurate when we lock into a guy. Sean Taylor, Carlos Rogers, Jason Campbell, Chris Cooley, Kedric Golston, not to mention our UDFA record consisting of Antonio Pierce, and Lemar Marshall among others.

Just keep a few more picks guys.

Re: Jansen's Future in Doubt?
 

Anyone notice on CNNSI's website...it reports Jansen as a DT? haha!