Re: Norv Turner Era: Success or Failure?
 

[quote=love them hogs;273655]The thing that really killed me about norv was that if it was 3rd and 10 he would call a 7 yard pass play.If it was 3rd and 7 he would call a 5 yard pass.I felt like he had no balls and that just drove me nuts.[/quote]


Almost every first down was a run play too...its all starting to come back, like bad acid reflux

Re: Norv Turner Era: Success or Failure?
 

Hiring a coach from Dallas to be the Redskins head coach brought a curse to this organization. When Norv goes back home to Dallas, the curse will be lifted and all will be right again!

Re: Norv Turner Era: Success or Failure?
 

[quote=Gmanc711;273659]Failure. I'll give him 2000, becuase I'm putting that year on Danny. He had a good team in 1999, had Danny not bought the team could he have taken it somewhere? Who knows.

IMO, that 99' team was good enough to win the Super Bowl, and if it wasent for the collapse in Tampa, I think they very well might have.

Overall though, numbers dont lie, its a failure.[B] I'm interested to see how many coaches started 7-1 and missed the playoffs.[/B][/quote]

Oh hell, Gmanc! Stop kicking us when we're down. I know I was stationed in Colorado Springs that year. What year was that '96? '97? The pain...looks like I'm hitting the bottle tonight.

Re: Norv Turner Era: Success or Failure?
 

1997. Ugh..

Re: Norv Turner Era: Success or Failure?
 

The guy is a classic coordinator not head coach. Zero personality and heart, just see his record in Oakland.

Re: Norv Turner Era: Success or Failure?
 

[quote=skins009;273672]The guy is a classic coordinator not head coach. Zero personality and heart, just see his record in Oakland.[/quote]Norv Turner record as Oakland HC: 9-23

Oakland combined record in the year that preceeded and the year followed Turner: 6-26

Oakland record against Washington Redskins in that 4 year time-span: 1-0

Study with statistically insignificant results: Priceless!

:censored:

Re: Norv Turner Era: Success or Failure?
 

[QUOTE=724Skinsfan;273667]Oh hell, Gmanc! Stop kicking us when we're down. I know I was stationed in Colorado Springs that year. What year was that '96? '97? The pain...looks like I'm hitting the bottle tonight.[/QUOTE]

I went to the game in Buffalo that year, the game that started the downward spiral...I just remember looking at a Redskins fan on the way out (I was like 8 at the time and he goes "At least were still 7-2" and I remember clear as day going " Have you watched this team the last 4 years?...I got a bad feeling" 9 weeks later, it was over.

Re: Norv Turner Era: Success or Failure?
 

Norv had shitty player to say the least. He really did OK with the offense but the defense was non-existent. I still can't get over that 7-1 start that went all for null. I would have no issue with having him as a offensive coordinator but I'm not so sure he is cut out to be a head coach. He is simply too nice and unlike Tony Dungy he doesn't have great players to compensate for his "niceness."

Re: Norv Turner Era: Success or Failure?
 

The mid-nineties were so catastrophic to a Redskins fan's psyche. It was a time (for some of us) in which the shadow of the first Gibbs era still cast a looming shadow. The multitude excuses and emphatic "wait till next year" phrases were tossed around like beads at a Mardi Gras parade. It was the start of the era of "The Quick Fix". I can remember thinking every year that we were still a powerhouse team from the eighties, we just needed one or two guys to come in and shore up a weak spot.

Well over a decade later, the same stagnant thoughts float dismally in my head. And I still say "wait till next year". Weird!

Who could forget the phrase "What we have works!"

Re: Norv Turner Era: Success or Failure?
 

Good OC, lousy coach. I remember wondering every week how we were going to "snatch defeat from the jaws of victory."

Re: Norv Turner Era: Success or Failure?
 

[quote=Gmanc711;273659]Failure. I'll give him 2000, becuase I'm putting that year on Danny. He had a good team in 1999, had Danny not bought the team could he have taken it somewhere? Who knows.

IMO, that 99' team was good enough to win the Super Bowl, and if it wasent for the collapse in Tampa, I think they very well might have.

Overall though, numbers dont lie, its a failure. I'm interested to see how many coaches started 7-1 and missed the playoffs.[/quote]

So you think the 99 team would have beaten the Rams? I doubt it. The 99 Rams simply had a great offense and our defesne would not have slowed them down. If I recall that year our defense was average at best. The best team won it in 99.

Re: Norv Turner Era: Success or Failure?
 

[quote=skinsfan69;273705]So you think the 99 team would have beaten the Rams? I doubt it. The 99 Rams simply had a great offense and our defesne would not have slowed them down. If I recall that year our defense was average at best. The best team won it in 99.[/quote]

Stop this living in the past B.S.! Just kidding!

Re: Norv Turner Era: Success or Failure?
 

[quote=724Skinsfan;273692]The mid-nineties were so catastrophic to a Redskins fan's psyche. It was a time (for some of us) in which the shadow of the first Gibbs era still cast a looming shadow. The multitude excuses and emphatic "wait till next year" phrases were tossed around like beads at a Mardi Gras parade. It was the start of the era of "The Quick Fix". I can remember thinking every year that we were still a powerhouse team from the eighties, we just needed one or two guys to come in and shore up a weak spot.

Well over a decade later, the same stagnant thoughts float dismally in my head. And I still say "wait till next year". Weird!

Who could forget the phrase "What we have works!"[/quote]

We sure were spoiled in the eighties and early nineties weren't we? At least we have a couple of playoff victories since our last Super Bowl, that's more than some teams have had.

Re: Norv Turner Era: Success or Failure?
 

[quote=5RINGS;273650]Funny, Someone wrote that last year, 'come over from the evil empire'.

My reply was that you guys would not respect me if I switched teams.


The reply???







We don't respect you now!!!


It was funny at the time.[/quote]

Sorry, about that. I should brush up on my history. Still, we've got an open spot for you to turn your life around!

Re: Norv Turner Era: Success or Failure?
 

[QUOTE=skinsfan69;273705]So you think the 99 team would have beaten the Rams? I doubt it. The 99 Rams simply had a great offense and our defesne would not have slowed them down. If I recall that year our defense was average at best. The best team won it in 99.[/QUOTE]

You know what's interesting is that the Redskins in 2000 built their team with the mindset of beating the Rams. They got their shutdown corner in Deion, their hard hitting safety in Mark Carrier, and their pass rusher in Bruce Smith.

And lo and behold, in 2000 they smoked them on a Monday night. And then they just collapsed. It's like that was their own personal Super Bowl.

Re: Norv Turner Era: Success or Failure?
 

Being a younger skins fan on this forum all i can say is terrible. When i first started really caring about football at about 9 or 10, right when norv became the head coach. It was tough to be a young skins fan at that time, as most little kids jump on a bandwagon team. But my dad raised me right damnit, I can still remember sittin there watchin them play sundays with my old man and he was just disgusted to watch this team play after having seen the entire gibbs era.

Re: Norv Turner Era: Success or Failure?
 

i better hold a little something back. it took turner a while to put results on the field...playoff wins but we went to the playoffs and won here at fedex and then went to tampa and lost on a botched snap and low and behold our owner who some call smart...who i call a moron put his hands on this team...brought in some has beens jeff george, bruce smith and deion and wrecked what turner struggled to build. I blame Mr Snyder for Norv's undoing here. PERIOD.

Re: Norv Turner Era: Success or Failure?
 

A definte failure. One series sums it all up for me. I hated every year with Turner as his teams had no character. Good plays but no intangebles.

With about 1:30 left in the 1st half and the skins down by 17. They have the ball on the approx. their 35. Most coaches want to get a score and go into halftime with a little momentum. Well Norv, tells the QB to take the knee. That was it for me. He just has no killer mentality nor does he have a clue of how to motivate. All the players love him, he is a players coach but sometimes you have motivate and since he was so close to the players he was unable.

My hope for him is that he gets the Dallas job, we could at least be guarenteed of Dallas failling for many years to come.

Re: Norv Turner Era: Success or Failure?
 

I think it's funny that some seem to be letting Norv off the hook because of his last year here with Snyder. Like that somehow absolves him for the prior 6 years of mediocrity.

Re: Norv Turner Era: Success or Failure?
 

If you look at Norv's record from a rest of the league perspective he was not a failure but not really successful either which means he was an average coach with the Redskins.

Looking at Norv's recored from a Redskin perspective he would have to be listed as a mild success in comparison with all the coaches that have followed him.

Re: Norv Turner Era: Success or Failure?
 

Check out this summary of 1998, a year full of hope after signing D. Stubblefield & Big Daddy Wilkinson. Norv would've been fired if not for the unsettled ownership situation, though the team did put together some wins at the end.

[url=http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/sports/redskins/longterm/1998/98recap.htm]Washingtonpost.com: Washington Redskins 1998 Season Recap[/url]

Re: Norv Turner Era: Success or Failure?
 

to many could haves, would haves, and should haves and mostly too much snyder to call it a success or failure.

Re: Norv Turner Era: Success or Failure?
 

[quote=freddyg12;273759]Check out this summary of 1998, a year full of hope after signing D. Stubblefield & Big Daddy Wilkinson. Norv would've been fired if not for the unsettled ownership situation, though the team did put together some wins at the end.

[URL="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/sports/redskins/longterm/1998/98recap.htm"]Washingtonpost.com: Washington Redskins 1998 Season Recap[/URL][/quote]


[url=http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/sports/redskins/longterm/1999/skinsrecap99.htm]Washingtonpost.com:[/url]

check out 1999 these are the results i speak of.

Re: Norv Turner Era: Success or Failure?
 

I'm still pissed about letting S. Davis and B. Johnson get away

Re: Norv Turner Era: Success or Failure?
 

[quote=vaoutlaws2006;273766][URL="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/sports/redskins/longterm/1999/skinsrecap99.htm"]Washingtonpost.com:[/URL]

check out 1999 these are the results i speak of.[/quote]

I remember that season well, it was our best till 05. Norv got things in order when Danny said playoffs or done.
I put the link to the 98 season cause I think it better shows the ups & downs of Norv's teams. we started 98 0-7 yet managed to finish 6-10.
The 2000 team beat the best teams in football including both super bowl teams, but we couldn't beat dallas & we lost one to the cards.
I also put up the 98 season cause as dismal as we were early on a lot of owners would've fired the coach by then.
Norv had some success & gave us hope for a while. I would've liked to have seen what he could've done in 2000 if Danny hadn't gone on that spending spree. At the same time, that spree was all on D & the D did improve greatly. Was Norv to blame for that team going 8-8?
That's a tough call, but I think Norv has shown that he's not as suited to being a head coach as an OC. just my opinion.

Re: Norv Turner Era: Success or Failure?
 

Norv Turner is a very good offensive coordinator. He was not a good head coach for the Washington Redskins. His team seemed rudderless. lacked discipline, showed no emotion and could not close out an opponent. He built a good offense but his defense was neglected. I had a feeling that he did not have the respect of his team. That was most evident when Dan Snyder chewed him out after an embarrasing lost and team did not support Turner.

Turner had success when Marvin Lewis was the defensive coordinator. Turner may be a decent head coach if he has a strong defensive coordinator handling the defensive side of the ball.

Re: Norv Turner Era: Success or Failure?
 

[QUOTE=hail_2_da_skins;273776]Norv Turner is a very good offensive coordinator. He was not a good head coach for the Washington Redskins. His team seemed rudderless. lacked discipline, showed no emotion and could not close out an opponent. He built a good offense but his defense was neglected. I had a feeling that he did not have the respect of his team. That was most evident when Dan Snyder chewed him out after an embarrasing lost and team did not support Turner.

Turner had success when Marvin Lewis was the defensive coordinator. Turner may be a decent head coach if he has a strong defensive coordinator handling the defensive side of the ball.[/QUOTE]

When was Marvin Lewis the defensive coordinator for Turner? And for all his "genius" Turner really didn't do all that much (from what I recall) as OC of the Dolphins and Chargers

Re: Norv Turner Era: Success or Failure?
 

Norv's time in the sun is gone with the Boys of the 1990's. As Tafkas stated, he has not had much success since. Is it not interesting, that JJ thinks he can re-kindle what is gone.................sorry bout' that.......I don't see it. Without the supporting cast, Norv is not enough to carry it

Re: Norv Turner Era: Success or Failure?
 

Lewis was the D coordinator for OBC. Norv is the best of the post 1995 redskins caoches by a mile and that says a lot because he was not that great.

Re: Norv Turner Era: Success or Failure?
 

Ok, I usually just lurk, but I'll weigh in on this. Norv is not as bad as we make him out to be. Our team was in disaster immediately following the beginning of the salary cap era and free agency. Pettibone was [I]absolutely terrible[/I] and our defense was mediocre and offense totally predictable. It was like we were running out of a tecmo super bowl playbook.

Along comes Norv to try to fix the mess. We end up with Heath Shuler, who although he can throw the ball through the goalposts on his knees at the 50 (he reportedly did this while visiting the skins before the draft), was less than capable of leading a team. Continue the John Friez/Gus Ferrote show. Gus wins the job and then it looks like we're headed to the playoffs when he head butts a wall after a touchdown [I]on purpose[/I] and put[I]s [/I]himself out for the whole season. Lets not forget that we had a parade of who's nobodies (opposite of who's whos) at DC.

Then we get Brad Johnson, we have Stephen Davis and decent receivers and a decent O-line. We make the playoffs. We have the top offense in the NFC (if I recall correctly). We lose because we have not one, but TWO of the damn Turk brothers on out team. New owner Dan Snyder decides to screw around with the team. I'm going to put this in caps. NORV WANTED TO KEEP BUILDING THROUGH THE DRAFT. We get deion, we get bruce, we get mark carrier. We go 8-8 that year and Norv gets fired.

Now, I will say that Norv started here with a crappy terrible defunct operation. Maybe he didn't build it up fast enough. To his credit. He had us pointed in the right direction and wanted to continue building long term. Losing Westbrook for the year had hurt us.

In argument against him, and the one I made at the time that year which I still think is valid. With Westbrook out, Johnson couldn't seem to get his groove back and Norv (who is supposed to be a QB wizard) couldn't fix the problem. With (Albeit aging) pro-bowlers everywhere, here was our record.


5-3 against playoff teams
3-5 against non-playoff teams

I think you get rid of your coach for that. However, since he had built it up to the point it was at and Dan arguably was the one that derailed it, maybe he should have been given another year.

Re: Norv Turner Era: Success or Failure?
 

To me the '96 and '97 seasons summed up the entire Turner era.

Talented teams on the brink but both seasons they just blew opportunity after opportunity. Especially in '96 after a 7-1 start... stumbling to a 9-7 finish. That was probably the most disappointing season I've ever witnessed.

Re: Norv Turner Era: Success or Failure?
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;273822]To me the '96 and '97 seasons summed up the entire Turner era.

Talented teams on the brink but both seasons they just blew opportunity after opportunity. Especially in '96 after a 7-1 start... stumbling to a 9-7 finish. That was probably the most disappointing season I've ever witnessed.[/QUOTE]

Were you sleeping through this past season? LOL

Re: Norv Turner Era: Success or Failure?
 

[quote=irish;273825]Were you sleeping through this past season? LOL[/quote]

Difference is we were never a true contender this year... starting a season 7-1 and not making the playoffs is about as heartbreaking as it can get.

Re: Norv Turner Era: Success or Failure?
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;273828]Difference is we were never a true contender this year... starting a season 7-1 and not making the playoffs is about as heartbreaking as it can get.[/QUOTE]

Now that the season is over we know the skins were never a true contender but in August everyone was talking about the Super Bowl and never gave up on the playoffs until it really was over.

This team went deep in the playoffs last year and the core of that team returned along with the HoF coach and for this team to not even win 7 games is more than a disappointment, its a disgrace.

Re: Norv Turner Era: Success or Failure?
 

[quote=TAFKAS;273734]You know what's interesting is that the Redskins in 2000 built their team with the mindset of beating the Rams. They got their shutdown corner in Deion, their hard hitting safety in Mark Carrier, and their pass rusher in Bruce Smith.

And lo and behold, in 2000 they smoked them on a Monday night. And then they just collapsed. It's like that was their own personal Super Bowl.[/quote]

Yeah I remember that game. Jeff George was the QB filling in for an injured Brad Johnson. Too bad all those players were all past their prime.

Re: Norv Turner Era: Success or Failure?
 

I always liked Norv and he was a great play caller.

However, he lacks the domineering personality necessary to be a succesful head coach. The only Cowboys fan who should be happy to see Norv go to Dallas is Jerry Jones. Jones will be the de facto coach with Norv holding the title but basically running the offense. That's what Cowboys fans should realize. If you hire Norv, you're really hiring Jerry.

Having said that, he will move the football with the players they have down there. No doubt about it.

Re: Norv Turner Era: Success or Failure?
 

This is a bit off topic but I didn't want to start another cowboys thread, but I found this article from espn.com pretty interesting. [url=http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2749678]ESPN.com - NFL - Turner still Cowboys' front-runner, wants control of staff[/url]

If they hire Norv and he gets to pick his own staff, what happens with Garrett if doesn't figure into Norv's plan? I would guess that this could mean that old Norvall might lose favor with the team.

Re: Norv Turner Era: Success or Failure?
 

The "real coach" in Dallas is already assembling his staff.

LOL what a joke.

Re: Norv Turner Era: Success or Failure?
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;273881]The "real coach" in Dallas is already assembling his staff.

LOL what a joke.[/QUOTE]You're right about that. I can't imagine that any front office would think it's a good idea to start bringing in new assistant coaches when you don't even have a head coach yet, but I guess that's what's going on down there.

Re: Norv Turner Era: Success or Failure?
 

[QUOTE=vaoutlaws2006;273749]i better hold a little something back. it took turner a while to put results on the field...playoff wins but we went to the playoffs and won here at fedex and then went to tampa and lost on a botched snap and low and behold our owner who some call smart...who i call a moron put his hands on this team...brought in some has beens jeff george, bruce smith and deion and wrecked what turner struggled to build. I blame Mr Snyder for Norv's undoing here. PERIOD.[/QUOTE]

You can certainly blame Snyder for Norv's last season but what about the other 5 awful seasons? Most teams would have fired Norv in year 3...John Cooke was a very patient owner.