Re: CBS Sportsline list of overrated and underrated players for each team
 

Funny how both Vick and Vince Young are on the overrated list. Can't disagree with that assessment.

Re: CBS Sportsline list of overrated and underrated players for each team
 

[quote=jsarno;315614]Funny how both Vick and Vince Young are on the overrated list. Can't disagree with that assessment.[/quote]

to me vick has always been overrated and young he is good win games and that is what the qb is supposed to do

Re: CBS Sportsline list of overrated and underrated players for each team
 

[QUOTE=EARTHQUAKE2689;315615]to me vick has always been overrated and young he is good win games and that is what the qb is supposed to do[/QUOTE]

But Vick has won games too...if Vick is overrated, so is VY.

Re: CBS Sportsline list of overrated and underrated players for each team
 

I guess for ARE to be overrated, he has to be valued somewhat.

But to TMC's point, the fact that we overpaid him means that our organization [B][U]did[/U][/B] overvalue him. I mean, being overpaid is the true definination of being overrated at least from an organizational standpoint.

He's not a very good receiver, so its hard to say he isnt overrated, but hes good enough to get the job done and brings a lot to the table, so although I do think hes overrated, I'm still glad to have him.

Re: CBS Sportsline list of overrated and underrated players for each team
 

[quote=EARTHQUAKE2689;315615]to me vick has always been overrated and young he is good win games and that is what the qb is supposed to do[/quote]VY han't done crap yet outside of pass with the proficiency of a rookie, but he shouldn't have too much of a problem seperating himself from Vick in the future.

VY is overrated right now, but I think he will justify the hype someday. Vick never will.

Re: CBS Sportsline list of overrated and underrated players for each team
 

[quote=GTripp0012;315646]I guess for ARE to be overrated, he has to be valued somewhat.

But to TMC's point, the fact that we overpaid him means that our organization [B][U]did[/U][/B] overvalue him. I mean, being overpaid is the true definination of being overrated at least from an organizational standpoint.

He's not a very good receiver, so its hard to say he isnt overrated, but hes good enough to get the job done and brings a lot to the table, so although I do think hes overrated, I'm still glad to have him.[/quote]


I think Gibbs puts a lot of value on him as a returner. A great return man can singlehandedly take you from 8-8 to 10-6. Only a few other players are in a position to do that. I think there will have to be a re-evaluation after this season. Those big returns seem really valuable when a team is successful and he's due for a couple this year.

Re: CBS Sportsline list of overrated and underrated players for each team
 

[quote=jsarno;315623]But Vick has won games too...if Vick is overrated, so is VY.[/quote]


but no one expected vince young to revolutinize the qb position like they did with vick he is an athlete with an arm and no accuracy. at least young as some accuracy and like gtripp said vince young's hype isnt as much as vick's and he will live up to it unlike vick

Re: CBS Sportsline list of overrated and underrated players for each team
 

IMO, the most overrated player on our team is Chris Samuels. I think he is great but he is voted a perennial pro-bowler and i think that's a bit much for him.

the most underrated player before last season was ladell but since he got his contract and publicity now I'd say it'd have to be Mike Sellers. FB's are the most unsung heroes on a football team and they really do some dirty work. The only time its fun to play that position is the goal line b/c of the possibility for a short yardage TD or a bootlegged pass off of the play action.

Re: CBS Sportsline list of overrated and underrated players for each team
 

People who think Samuels is overrated forget when we didn't have him and our QBs got murdered. Samules gives up like 2 or 3 sacks a year in his abd years. He is good.

Re: CBS Sportsline list of overrated and underrated players for each team
 

People will realize just how good Samuels is once we have to find his replacement. He's anchored the left side since his rookie year, if anything I think he's really underappreciated by Skins fans.

Re: CBS Sportsline list of overrated and underrated players for each team
 

[quote=5RINGS;315534]What about Reggie Wayne??


How does Larry Fitzgerald get on that list?[/quote]

???? Larry Fitzgerald is a pro-bowler and a monster. And he's only 24. He's gonna be one of the greats if he stays healthy.

Re: CBS Sportsline list of overrated and underrated players for each team
 

[quote=70Chip;315650]I think Gibbs puts a lot of value on him as a returner. A great return man can singlehandedly take you from 8-8 to 10-6. Only a few other players are in a position to do that. I think there will have to be a re-evaluation after this season. Those big returns seem really valuable when a team is successful and he's due for a couple this year.[/quote]

yes, and let's analyze WHY we signed him for so much; this team thought it was a few players away from a super bowl & ARE was drawing interest from Chicago. We got him as a #3 wr & return man w/the added capability of passing the ball.
The thing I didn't like about the sportsline list is that it just calls him a #3 wr. First of all, he ended the season as our #2 & he does all the other things I mentioned plus we give him the ball to run a lot on reverses.
He was dangerous in Pitt. cause they had a solid team. Once we get to that level here, we'll see him make some more big plays.
I thought of all the acquisitions last year, he paid off the most, we just weren't in a position as a team to get the most out of him.

Re: CBS Sportsline list of overrated and underrated players for each team
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;315679]People will realize just how good Samuels is once we have to find his replacement. He's anchored the left side since his rookie year, if anything I think he's really underappreciated by Skins fans.[/QUOTE]

100%. Guys don't go to multiple pro bowls just on reputation alone. They have to have been good at some point to get the reputation. And Samuels hasn't gotten bad.

Re: CBS Sportsline list of overrated and underrated players for each team
 

[quote=70Chip;315650]I think Gibbs puts a lot of value on him as a returner. A great return man can singlehandedly take you from 8-8 to 10-6. Only a few other players are in a position to do that. I think there will have to be a re-evaluation after this season. Those big returns seem really valuable when a team is successful and he's due for a couple this year.[/quote]I see what you are saying, but I have to disagree that a return man can [I]singlehandedly[/I] add two wins to a teams total. If he can do that, it's likely that the team probably was good enough to win ten games anyway, and it just so happened that the methodology happened to involve 2 PR TDs. I think a good punt returner can be the difference between 10 wins and 8 wins on a team that has, ya know, 9.5 win kind of talent. I don't think even a great PR like Hester could take a .500 team and have them win 10 games without any additional breaks. I think that type of performance would need something like 8 PR TDs with no fumbles, which is unprecidented.

Additionally, Randle El is hardly the leagues best PR. And maybe Gibbs overvalues him in that role. I mean, hes a big improvement over Antonio Brown. But Football Outsiders [URL="http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/teamst.php"]argues[/URL] that he created only about 3-4 points over the course of a season over a league average Punt Returner. 3-4 points probably isn't going to change the outcome of any games. Of course, its about an 8 point improvement over Antonio Brown, which is worth about half a win-ish.

Re: CBS Sportsline list of overrated and underrated players for each team
 

I think (and I'm not sure if this has been mentioned already) that Ladell Betts is overrated. He's a solid #2 (when healthy). But, first of all he's rarely healthy, and secondly this sudden notion that he's as good as or even better than Portis that seems to be so prevalent that past few months is a bit ridiculous I think.

Re: CBS Sportsline list of overrated and underrated players for each team
 

I agree Betts is a bit overrated right now.

He finally stayed healthy and ran through gigantic holes last year when the O-Line was really firing on all cylinders, sorry but I'm not falling over myself to praise him. Yes he's a valuable backup. Yes he could be a quality starter, but Portis is clearly our starter and the better overall back.

Betts is not a smashmouth Riggins type of runner that some people seem to think he is.

Re: CBS Sportsline list of overrated and underrated players for each team
 

[quote=Mattyk72;315695]I agree Betts is a bit overrated right now.

He finally stayed healthy and ran through gigantic holes last year when the O-Line was really firing on all cylinders, sorry but I'm not falling over myself to praise him. Yes he's a valuable backup. Yes he could be a quality starter, but Portis is clearly our starter and the better overall back.

[B]Betts is not a smashmouth Riggins type of runner that some people seem to think he is[/B].[/quote]
i agree. but it seems like every time you bring this up, you get all the boys in an uproar

Re: CBS Sportsline list of overrated and underrated players for each team
 

Let the uproar begin I guess. ;)

Re: CBS Sportsline list of overrated and underrated players for each team
 

[quote=Mattyk72;315705]Let the uproar begin I guess. ;)[/quote]

i agree with everything u said portis is more riggins than betts is

Re: CBS Sportsline list of overrated and underrated players for each team
 

[quote=EARTHQUAKE2689;315708]i agree with everything u said portis is more riggins than betts is[/quote]
in a wierd way, i think your right. portis really knows how to finish off a run. just like that touchdown against tampa in the playoff game

Re: CBS Sportsline list of overrated and underrated players for each team
 

[quote=dmek25;315716]in a wierd way, i think your right. portis really knows how to finish off a run. just like that touchdown against tampa in the playoff game[/quote]


[IMG]http://www.thewarpath.net/images/icons/icon10.gif[/IMG][IMG]http://www.thewarpath.net/images/icons/icon10.gif[/IMG][IMG]http://www.thewarpath.net/images/icons/icon10.gif[/IMG] yeah that is what i am saying portis hits the hole and runs between the guards as well if not better than any running back in the nfl

Re: CBS Sportsline list of overrated and underrated players for each team
 

[quote=GMScud;315680]???? Larry Fitzgerald is a pro-bowler and a monster. And he's only 24. He's gonna be one of the greats if he stays healthy.[/quote]

Right now Boldin is the best WR on that team, and because they have such a pititful running attack and are coming from behind most of the time - lots of passing - I feel his numbers are inflated.

even his inflated numbers aren't top 10.

He might be a monster in the future, I just don't think he has shown it yet.

Re: CBS Sportsline list of overrated and underrated players for each team
 

hey 5rings, how is it going?

Re: CBS Sportsline list of overrated and underrated players for each team
 

it seems to me that this logic is what gets us into trouble when it comes to signing talent that we REALLY need... (DT and DE)



[quote=FRPLG;315430]I am not convinced he is not worth the money.

A solid econmoic argument can be made that teams like the Redskins, ie teams flush with cash, operate on a different salary cap than everyone else. Remember the salary cap is largely an accounting number and not a real money amount. In essence $10mil to us is not the same as $10mil to the Bills. For $10mil the bills would need to get far better returns than average. For $10 to us we probably don't even need average returns. The way the cap works in terms of money amounts is really very relative to teams respective financial positions. Of which ours is the best in terms of revenue and profits.[/quote]

Re: CBS Sportsline list of overrated and underrated players for each team
 

I don't know how Arch is overrated. He was traded for a 6th round pick and everyone says he sucks. He seems to me to be pretty accurately rated.

Re: CBS Sportsline list of overrated and underrated players for each team
 

ARE for the money we paid him should have produced more period. This year it should be different, which is what we are all hoping for. If the guy doesn't produce this season, along with Llyod, then those guys will deserve to be called overrated. I doubt that is going to happen though. With a full season of the new system under their belts and a new young QB, they should both excel this season. If their stats don't improve tremendously then there is a major problem, and we will have a Deion, Fryar, Reed, Smith FA acquisition type bust again. Big money for little production. I still say we need to focus on the draft as the primary way of filling needs, ie more bang for the buck, and only acquire FA's as a secondary way to shore up our needs.

Re: CBS Sportsline list of overrated and underrated players for each team
 

[quote=FRPLG;315446]Jansen. Don't kill me.[/quote]I think our offensive line is our most overrated unit. I mean people know our second receiver and DL situations are terrible, but there is a strong perception that we have one of the leagues best OLs. It's adequate, but Rabach is a league average player on a good day, same for Jansen, and our LG is a converted tackle. That doesn't bode all that well, even with great players like Samuels and Thomas on that line.

Re: CBS Sportsline list of overrated and underrated players for each team
 

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;315691]I think (and I'm not sure if this has been mentioned already) that Ladell Betts is overrated. He's a solid #2 (when healthy). But, first of all he's rarely healthy, and secondly this sudden notion that he's as good as or even better than Portis that seems to be so prevalent that past few months is a bit ridiculous I think.[/QUOTE]

I couldn't agree more. He looked great last season, but where was he for the first few years of his career? He couldn't beat out [I]Kenny Watson[/I] or [I]Trung Canidate[/I], yet people wanted to dump Portis and make this guy the feature back? He could be a great RB, but he hasn't proved it yet.

I don't think that Samuels is overrated. He gets a lot of Pro Bowl nods, but there aren't many stud LTs in the NFC. Moreover, he rarely gives up sacks. He's been so solid for so long, but it's difficult to appreciate just how good O-linemen are. Moreover, it's hard to appreciate the nice things in your life until you lose them. Hopefully, we will have him for years to come.

Cooley is unquestionably the most underrated player on our team. For some strange reason he hasn't gotten the praise Witten, Crumpler, et al have gotten.

Re: CBS Sportsline list of overrated and underrated players for each team
 

I think people know Cooley is great but they are slow to praise any Redskin. Especialy when they underachieve as a team. Listening to Parcells before the game here last year, I got the impression he thought Cooley was superior to Witten. He said basically that if he had Cooley he could find a lot of great ways to use him.

Re: CBS Sportsline list of overrated and underrated players for each team
 

[QUOTE=EARTHQUAKE2689;315654]but no one expected vince young to revolutinize the qb position like they did with vick he is an athlete with an arm and no accuracy. at least young as some accuracy and like gtripp said vince young's hype isnt as much as vick's and he will live up to it unlike vick[/QUOTE]

Umm what?
VY- 06, 51.5% comp.
VICK- 06, 52.6% comp.

Vick's first full year: 54.9%
Vick's average season: 53.8%

Right now, Vick is more accurate...and that is completely sad cause Vick sucks. They are both very overrated.

Re: CBS Sportsline list of overrated and underrated players for each team
 

[quote=jsarno;316507]Umm what?
VY- 06, 51.5% comp.
VICK- 06, 52.6% comp.

Vick's first full year: 54.9%
Vick's average season: 53.8%

Right now, Vick is more accurate...and that is completely sad cause Vick sucks. They are both very overrated.[/quote]


Once again you are missing the point. Right now Vick had better recievers and a better TE (although they dropped stuff). And Vick had way more hype coming out, and Vince young this was his rokkie season unlike Vick who is a seasoned vet who completeion percentage should be higher than 53.8%. Young will be higher this year and Vick's will stay the same. If it wasnt for that little 2 and a half game stretch for vick he would have been in the high forties. Jason Campbell was only 53% this season. Why? because it was his first season starting and he didnt start all the games just like Vince Young.

Re: CBS Sportsline list of overrated and underrated players for each team
 

[QUOTE=EARTHQUAKE2689;316554]Once again you are missing the point. Right now Vick had better recievers and a better TE (although they dropped stuff). And Vick had way more hype coming out, and Vince young this was his rokkie season unlike Vick who is a seasoned vet who completeion percentage should be higher than 53.8%. Young will be higher this year and Vick's will stay the same. If it wasnt for that little 2 and a half game stretch for vick he would have been in the high forties. Jason Campbell was only 53% this season. Why? because it was his first season starting and he didnt start all the games just like Vince Young.[/QUOTE]

You know what's funny? If you combined like 500 of Quake's post, it still wouldn't add up to as much as he just wrote there.

Re: CBS Sportsline list of overrated and underrated players for each team
 

[quote=SmootSmack;316556]You know what's funny? If you combined like 500 of Quake's post, it still wouldn't add up to as much as he just wrote there.[/quote]

[IMG]http://www.thewarpath.net/images/icons/icon10.gif[/IMG]
Thank you SS. I have decided to take the message of my fellow warpath brothers and lengthen my post woth more information.

Re: CBS Sportsline list of overrated and underrated players for each team
 

[quote=jsarno;316507]Umm what?
VY- 06, 51.5% comp.
VICK- 06, 52.6% comp.

Vick's first full year: 54.9%
Vick's average season: 53.8%

Right now, Vick is more accurate...and that is completely sad cause Vick sucks. They are both very overrated.[/quote]Single season sample issues aside, the difference is that in theory, Young should get way better as a passer in his second season and beyond.

Vick appears to have gotten a really lucky first season based on his averages. Vick is just a horrible passer.

Re: CBS Sportsline list of overrated and underrated players for each team
 

[quote=EARTHQUAKE2689;316554]Once again you are missing the point. Right now Vick had better recievers and a better TE (although they dropped stuff). And Vick had way more hype coming out, and Vince young this was his rokkie season unlike Vick who is a seasoned vet who completeion percentage should be higher than 53.8%. Young will be higher this year and Vick's will stay the same. If it wasnt for that little 2 and a half game stretch for vick he would have been in the high forties. Jason Campbell was only 53% this season. Why? because it was his first season starting and he didnt start all the games just like Vince Young.[/quote]Pretty solid analysis.

Re: CBS Sportsline list of overrated and underrated players for each team
 

[QUOTE=TheMalcolmConnection;315449]If I'm being totally honest, it's Santana Moss. WITHOUT a doubt I think he is a good receiver. He's being mentioned among the elite far too often with only one true "elite" season to show for it.[/QUOTE]


I'm more concerned with his ability to stay healthy and in the lineup than how people rate his contributions. We haven't even gone to training camp, and already he's beset with little nagging injuries. It behooves me how players can maintain they work out during the off season and keep themselves in the best of shape, then come to OTA's where there's no contact at all, and after one week there's injury after injury.......Amazing.

I'm concerned about how much time he's going to miss this season due to hamstrings, and an assortment of other little injuries.

Re: CBS Sportsline list of overrated and underrated players for each team
 

well i know everyone will kill me for this but i find it to be true.......the most overrated player we have is sean taylor.....im not saying hes not good but with all the hype i would expect more consistent play...............i think the most underrated player we have is mike sellers, great blocker, can run decent and catches extremly well for a fullback

Re: CBS Sportsline list of overrated and underrated players for each team
 

[quote=charlielyons;316604]well i know everyone will kill me for this but i find it to be true.......the most overrated player we have is sean taylor.....im not saying hes not good but with all the hype i would expect more consistent play...............i think the most underrated player we have is mike sellers, great blocker, can run decent and catches extremly well for a fullback[/quote]


So our best defensive player is our most overrated. Umm............ how to say this. I disagree with that for multiple reasons. Whenever an analyst talks about top safties or defensive backs, Sean Taylor is never included. So, for that sole purpose that would make him an underrated player not overrated. To be honest there isn't a player on our roseter in my mind that has so much hype that his performance to this point would be considered a disapointment. Yes, Antwaan Randle El didn't produce as much as we thought he would in the first year. But, hasn't every player and coach who has worked with Al Saunders (including coach saunders) said that it takes 2 years to fully understand his playbook, and from my understanding we are in year 2 of the saunders experiment so let's just wait and see what happens. The reason everyone would call Randle El would be called overrated is because everyone falsely expected him to come in here and instantly produce game changing play after game changing play. But, if you look at his stats for the 2006 season he tied a career high in TD receptions with 3. Plus, the reason he had a career high in reception yards in 2005 was because he was the second option in the passing game in pittsburgh in 2005. Let's be honest Randle El was brought in here and at the start of the seaon he would have been considered the 4th option in the passing game behind Moss, Lloyd, and Cooley. So in that retrospect he started at 4th and moved into 3rd by the end of the season so for a 3rd/4th option tweener I would say that he did pretty good. It really didn't help him that Mark Brunell admitted that he was skeptical to open the playbook and kept throwing dinks and dunks.

Oh by the way I still think our most underrated player on our roster is, and always has been Chris Cooley. He is the most productive player in the NFL on offense that never gets talked about. His career low in touchdowns is 6 and he just became a full blood tight end in 2006.

Re: CBS Sportsline list of overrated and underrated players for each team
 

i agree with Charlie. with that high a pick, i know that skins fans were/ are expecting alot more out of Taylor. every once in a while we will get teased with a glimpse of greatness, then Mr Taylor will bite on a play fake, and get torched for a long gainer

Re: CBS Sportsline list of overrated and underrated players for each team
 

[quote=dmek25;316683]i agree with Charlie. with that high a pick, i know that skins fans were/ are expecting alot more out of Taylor. every once in a while we will get teased with a glimpse of greatness, then Mr Taylor will bite on a play fake, and get torched for a long gainer[/quote]


See dmek, that is what i am saying. Redskins fans have a way and I am included in this of over hyping there own players to such a degree that anything below a miracle season is considered a dissapointment. If you look at all the free safties in the NFL. (Ed Reed is a strong safety full time now) I want you to name a safety besides Brian Dawkins that is better than Sean Taylor.