Re: Joyner: Cooley underrated
 

Whoa, whoa, whoa. Did you say Cooley was replaceable?

Re: Joyner: Cooley underrated
 

I'm assuming replaceable by another top three (top two for me) TE in the league? Also, remember that the Browns had NO receivers to speak of.

Re: Joyner: Cooley underrated
 

It's not Cooley, it how he is used. He is definitely not easily replaceable.

Re: Joyner: Cooley underrated
 

Anyone is nuts not to think Cooley is one of the best TE's in the league. I always get him as my starting fantasy TE every year since year 2 of his being a Skin. Everyone here playing fantasy this year should pick him up as well!!!! With JC bound to improve, along with our Wr corp, I look for things to open up more for Cooley and he will get more scores and yardage. Only TE's arguably better than Chris are Gates and Gonzalez, but our O is more potent than both SD and KC.

Re: Joyner: Cooley underrated
 

[quote=saden1;317775]It's not Cooley, it how he is used. He is definitely not easily replaceable.[/quote]

He just said what I'm thinking.. Yes, some of you guys are right.. In general, TE players may be easy to replace, but not Cooley.. He is all-round player, hell, we even won some games because of him..

Re: Joyner: Cooley underrated
 

[quote=TheMalcolmConnection;317764]Whoa, whoa, whoa. Did you say Cooley was replaceable?[/quote]

Yes I did. Don't get me wrong, I love the guy and I think he can be a top 5 TE. But he's not Gates or Tony G. I mean Gates is clearly the best TE in football. If Cooley were to leave ( I hope like hell he doesn't) we could go out and get someone who could do what Cooley does, or draft someone who has comparable skills. You don't agree?

Re: Joyner: Cooley underrated
 

[quote=TheMalcolmConnection;317765]I'm assuming replaceable by another top three (top two for me) TE in the league? Also, remember that the Browns had NO receivers to speak of.[/quote]

I agree that Clev. had no WR's but Winslow still had to get open to catch 90 balls. Very very impressive if you ask me.

Re: Joyner: Cooley underrated
 

[quote=skinsfan69;317789]Yes I did. Don't get me wrong, I love the guy and I think he can be a top 5 TE. But he's not Gates or Tony G. I mean Gates is clearly the best TE in football. If Cooley were to leave ( I hope like hell he doesn't) we could go out and get someone who could do what Cooley does, or draft someone who has comparable skills. You don't agree?[/quote]

I most definitely do not agree. It's rare to find someone with such a combination of hands, blocking and running abilities. You're citing Gates as the best TE in football right now, but I'd have to differ in the fact that when you have the offense they do, it's easy to look good. While I think that Gates is top three, I think Gonzo is the best.

I'm also not taking anything away from Winslow, but if you're asking me who I'll take ANY Sunday between Cooley and Winslow, give me Cooley each and every day.

I can't even remember the best tight end prospect last year, but can you think of ANY TE that really tore up the league last year? If he was so easily replaceable, you'd think that SOMEONE drafted would even come close to duplicating his stats and I don't think that anyone did.

Re: Joyner: Cooley underrated
 

[quote=TheMalcolmConnection;317794]I most definitely do not agree. It's rare to find someone with such a combination of hands, blocking and running abilities. You're citing Gates as the best TE in football right now, but I'd have to differ in the fact that when you have the offense they do, it's easy to look good. While I think that Gates is top three, I think Gonzo is the best.

I'm also not taking anything away from Winslow, but if you're asking me who I'll take ANY Sunday between Cooley and Winslow, give me Cooley each and every day.

I can't even remember the best tight end prospect last year, but can you think of ANY TE that really tore up the league last year? If he was so easily replaceable, you'd think that SOMEONE drafted would even come close to duplicating his stats and I don't think that anyone did.[/quote]

Cooley would not be easily replaceable. But it's not like we couldn't find someone who could catch 60-70 balls and 5-7 TD's. I think we as Redskins fans tend to think that our players are the best becasue they play for The Redskins, and we get attached to them. Ask yourself this question. If Cooley played for Dallas would you still feel the same way about him?

That is my point on TE's. No one really tore it up. Winslow had 90 catches but only scored like 2-3 times and didn't crack 1,000 yards. It's not a position where you need to make a huge investment.

Re: Joyner: Cooley underrated
 

[QUOTE=skinsfan69;317852]Cooley would not be easily replaceable. But it's not like we couldn't find someone who could catch 60-70 balls and 5-7 TD's. I think we as Redskins fans tend to think that our players are the best becasue they play for The Redskins, and we get attached to them. Ask yourself this question. If Cooley played for Dallas would you still feel the same way about him?

That is my point on TE's. No one really tore it up. Winslow had 90 catches but only scored like 2-3 times and didn't crack 1,000 yards. It's not a position where you need to make a huge investment.[/QUOTE]


Okay now you are on crack ...

One of my favorite Cowboys players has to be Witten.. he is a chain mover as is Cooley . I actually don't rate Gates that much, he is amongst the best in the leauge but he is esentially a converted basket ball player with limited moves, speed and has questionable blocking skills . What SD do well with him is ask him to go out there and esentially go for the jump balls .

You have the great TE's in history like Mike Ditka etc but they are often overlooked . In the Dallas reign of terror 92-96 I think the most valuble offensive players they had were in order, Aikmen, Smith, Novacheck, Allen, Irvin .

When I think of great TEs right now i like Ben Watson in NE, Dallas Clark as fantasy stud last year on my team, Jason Witten, Chris Cooley, Tony G - but only as a pass catcher, he is not the best blocker in the world, Vernon Davis - was ripping it up before his injury, and Kelen Winslow .

I also think the eara of the great TE is still to come but if you have a top flight all round skills like Cooley you do not let him walk because you simply cannot go out and replace them. It is a undervalued possition in the collages and NFL, often spare tackles who can catch get stuck on the end as a TE.

Re: Joyner: Cooley underrated
 

[quote=skinsfan69;317852]Cooley would not be easily replaceable. But it's not like we couldn't find someone who could catch 60-70 balls and 5-7 TD's. I think we as Redskins fans tend to think that our players are the best becasue they play for The Redskins, and we get attached to them. Ask yourself this question. If Cooley played for Dallas would you still feel the same way about him?

That is my point on TE's. No one really tore it up. Winslow had 90 catches but only scored like 2-3 times and didn't crack 1,000 yards. It's not a position where you need to make a huge investment.[/quote]

Yeap your on CRACK for sure.

First of all fans are attached to Cooley because he's one of the VERY BEST TE in the entire league, and happens to be a SKIN! As you can tell by stats witten has been getting his respect as deserved, but Cooley isn't a cowgirl so what's the point? If your Really Good, your Really Good doesn't matter what team you play for?

If you don't think a top TE in the league is a big investment, your dead wrong, just look at the top TE's contracts in the league, witten, heap, shockey, or any top 5 TE for instance, maybe then you'll understand a top TE in the league is starting to require a big check.

With that said Cooley is a premier TE in this league and needs to be paid accordingly in DC!

Re: Joyner: Cooley underrated
 

[quote=skinsfan69;317852]Cooley would not be easily replaceable. [B][I]But it's not like we couldn't find someone who could catch 60-70 balls and 5-7 TD's.[/I][/B] I think we as Redskins fans tend to think that our players are the best becasue they play for The Redskins, and we get attached to them. Ask yourself this question. If Cooley played for Dallas would you still feel the same way about him?

That is my point on TE's. No one really tore it up. Winslow had 90 catches but only scored like 2-3 times and didn't crack 1,000 yards. It's not a position where you need to make a huge investment.[/quote]

Seriously, if that was easily possible, don't you think that teams would do that on a yearly basis? There's a reason people lock TEs up to long term contracts...

Re: Joyner: Cooley underrated
 

[quote=TheMalcolmConnection;317794]I most definitely do not agree. It's rare to find someone with such a combination of hands, blocking and running abilities. You're citing Gates as the best TE in football right now, but I'd have to differ in the fact that when you have the offense they do, it's easy to look good. While I think that Gates is top three, I think Gonzo is the best.

I'm also not taking anything away from Winslow, but if you're asking me who I'll take ANY Sunday between Cooley and Winslow, give me Cooley each and every day.

I can't even remember the best tight end prospect last year, but can you think of ANY TE that really tore up the league last year? If he was so easily replaceable, you'd think that SOMEONE drafted would even come close to duplicating his stats and I don't think that anyone did.[/quote]Cooley, Heap, Crumpler. No specific order.

Here's a point I'd like to bring up: Vernon Davis was the 5th overall pick in 2006, because of some incredible set of athletic skills regarding a TE. Now I want everybody to think about that for a second. [I]A TE who is small and can't block but can run 4.3 and jump really high.[/I]

That doesn't sound like a TE to me at all. It sounds like SF drafted a receiver who was just playing out of position. Now, a receiver with 4.3 speed really isn't all that special. But this is a thought process that apparently never occured to the 49ers while doing this.

This is the ultimate proof that TEs are valued improperly. And while Antonio Gates is a wonderful fantasy TE, what exactly does scoring TD's prove if you can't block a lick?

Cooley, Heap, and Crumpler are all average to good blockers and smart receivers in the open field. Gonzo should still be in this conversation, but at this point in his career, probably is no longer the elite player at his position. Gates should be the No. 1 TE in fantasy, but when in comes to value to his team, he clearly is quite overrated.

Winslow>Gates, but hes not a wonderful blocker either.

Re: Joyner: Cooley underrated
 

Winslow over Gates??

Wow.

Re: Joyner: Cooley underrated
 

[quote=Mattyk72;317889]Winslow over Gates??

Wow.[/quote]Why not?

Disagreeing is completely cool but passing it off without even considering it is pretty foolish, IMHO.

Re: Joyner: Cooley underrated
 

[quote=GTripp0012;317896]Why not?

Disagreeing is completely cool but passing it off without even considering it is pretty foolish, IMHO.[/quote]

Look at what Gates has done so far in his career:

265 catches, 3378 yards, 12.7 avg, 34 TDs.

As for Winslow:

94 catches, 925 yards, 9.8 avg, 3 TDs.

So why would I think Winslow is better than Gates??

I can't wait to hear this logic.

Re: Joyner: Cooley underrated
 

[quote=GTripp0012;317896]Why not?

Disagreeing is completely cool but passing it off without even considering it is pretty foolish, IMHO.[/quote]


for the simple fact that Gates has produced way better in the league. And last year was the first time that Winslow was even on the field. Pile that on with the fact that the Browns had no recievers (Edwards hasnt shown anything) and no running game. Add all that up and you have got a player with inflated stats. Come on Winslow is not better than Chris Cooley let alone Gates.

Re: Joyner: Cooley underrated
 

[quote=bedlamVR;317860]Okay now you are on crack ...

[B]One of my favorite Cowboys players has to be Witten[/B].. he is a chain mover as is Cooley . I actually don't rate Gates that much, he is amongst the best in the leauge but he is esentially a converted basket ball player with limited moves, speed and has questionable blocking skills . What SD do well with him is ask him to go out there and esentially go for the jump balls .

You have the great TE's in history like Mike Ditka etc but they are often overlooked . In the Dallas reign of terror 92-96 I think the most valuble offensive players they had were in order, Aikmen, Smith, Novacheck, Allen, Irvin .

When I think of great TEs right now i like Ben Watson in NE, Dallas Clark as fantasy stud last year on my team, Jason Witten, Chris Cooley, Tony G - but only as a pass catcher, he is not the best blocker in the world, Vernon Davis - was ripping it up before his injury, and Kelen Winslow .

I also think the eara of the great TE is still to come but if you have a top flight all round skills like Cooley you do not let him walk because you simply cannot go out and replace them. It is a undervalued possition in the collages and NFL, often spare tackles who can catch get stuck on the end as a TE.[/quote]
how can any redskin fans say the have a favorite cowboys player?this is.... absurd

Re: Joyner: Cooley underrated
 

[quote=Mattyk72;317907]Look at what Gates has done so far in his career:

265 catches, 3378 yards, 12.7 avg, 34 TDs.

As for Winslow:

94 catches, 925 yards, 9.8 avg, 3 TDs.

So why would I think Winslow is better than Gates??

[B][I]I can't wait to hear this logic[/I][/B].[/quote]



there isn't any.

Re: Joyner: Cooley underrated
 

[quote=dmek25;317916]how can any redskin fans say the have a favorite cowboys player?this is.... absurd[/quote]


3 months for him

Re: Joyner: Cooley underrated
 

There is no comparing Winslow and Gates. None.

Re: Joyner: Cooley underrated
 

[quote=skinsfan_nn;317863]Yeap your on CRACK for sure.

First of all fans are attached to Cooley because he's one of the VERY BEST TE in the entire league, and happens to be a SKIN! As you can tell by stats witten has been getting his respect as deserved, but Cooley isn't a cowgirl so what's the point? If your Really Good, your Really Good doesn't matter what team you play for?

If you don't think a top TE in the league is a big investment, your dead wrong, just look at the top TE's contracts in the league, witten, heap, shockey, or any top 5 TE for instance, maybe then you'll understand a top TE in the league is starting to require a big check.

With that said Cooley is a premier TE in this league and needs to be paid accordingly in DC![/quote]

I am not on any crack. You guys act like if Cooley left, our offense would totally fall apart. I love the guy and def DO NOT want him to leave and we should pay him accordingly. But there are by my count about 10-13 guys in the NFL that have his skill set. It's not like we could never find a guy to do what he does. My point is he should be paid like some of the top guys, but it's not like he isn't replaceable. That's all I'm saying becasue I think he is replaceable. Put it this way. If it came down to us getting a pass rusher, or keeping Cooley I would take the pass rusher becasue they are harder to find.

Here are TE's in the NFL that can do what Cooley does, or do it better than him IMO.

Witten
Heap
Crumpler
Gates
Watson
Gonzalez
V. Davis
Shockey
LJ Smith
Dallas Clark
The TE drafted by Chicago forgot his name.
D. Graham
Winslow

Re: Joyner: Cooley underrated
 

I'd take out Davis, LJ Smith, Dallas Clark and Winslow. Still though, when you look at that list compared to the sheer number of TEs in the league, that's only a FRACTION. Also, remember the TEs who are cut and never even saw a roster. Not that easily replaceable if you ask me.

Re: Joyner: Cooley underrated
 

[quote=dmek25;317916]how can any redskin fans say the have a favorite cowboys player?this is.... absurd[/quote]

and bedlam says i'm on crack????????????????????????????????????????? if i'm on crack he's on coke! ;-)

Re: Joyner: Cooley underrated
 

[quote=skinsfan69;317944]I am not on any crack. You guys act like if Cooley left our offense would totally fall apart. I love the guy and def DO NOT want him to leave and we should pay him accordingly. But there are by my count about 10-13 guys in the NFL that have his skill set. It's not like we could never find a guy to do what he does. My point is he should be paid like some of the top guys, but it's not like he isn't replaceable. That's all I'm saying becasue I think he is replaceable. Put it this way. If it came down to us getting a pass rusher, or keeping Cooley I would take the pass rusher becasue they are harder to find.

Here are TE's in the NFL that can do what Cooley does, or do it better than him.

Witten
Heap
Crumpler
Gates
Watson
Gonzalez
V. Davis
Shockey
LJ Smith
Dallas Clark
The TE drafted by Chicago forgot his name.
D. Graham
Winslow[/quote]

He's replaceable. What does that mean exactly? You can line another body in that position and the Redskins will be just as fine? If that's the case, couldn't that same be said of, well, all the positions across the board?

If you believe there are curently 13 TE better than Chris Cooley, then there's no trying to reason this point.

Re: Joyner: Cooley underrated
 

[quote=TheMalcolmConnection;317946]I'd take out Davis, LJ Smith, Dallas Clark and Winslow. Still though, when you look at that list compared to the sheer number of TEs in the league, that's only a FRACTION. Also, remember the TEs who are cut and never even saw a roster. Not that easily replaceable if you ask me.[/quote]

You would take out Winslow? Really??? I mean the guys first year on the field ( after a broken leg and torn acl ) he had 90 cates. That is pretty damn impressive to me. And I don't care if Clev. didn't have any WR's cause he still had to get open. If you are catching that many balls you are consistently beating the LB's and DB's.

I think LJ Smith is a vey solid player and Clark would get alot more balls if he were in any other offense.

Re: Joyner: Cooley underrated
 

[quote=skinsfan69;317944]I am not on any crack. You guys act like if Cooley left, our offense would totally fall apart. I love the guy and def DO NOT want him to leave and we should pay him accordingly. But there are by my count about 10-13 guys in the NFL that have his skill set. It's not like we could never find a guy to do what he does. My point is he should be paid like some of the top guys, but it's not like he isn't replaceable. That's all I'm saying becasue I think he is replaceable. Put it this way. If it came down to us getting a pass rusher, or keeping Cooley I would take the pass rusher becasue they are harder to find.

Here are TE's in the NFL that can do what Cooley does, or do it better than him IMO.

Witten
Heap
Crumpler
Gates
Watson
Gonzalez
V. Davis
Shockey
LJ Smith
Dallas Clark
[B][I]The TE drafted by Chicago forgot his name[/I][/B].
D. Graham
Winslow[/quote]


greg olsen

Re: Joyner: Cooley underrated
 

[quote=skinsfan69;317952]You would take out Winslow? Really??? I mean the guys first year on the field ( after a broken leg and torn acl ) he had 90 cates. That is pretty damn impressive to me. And I don't care if Clev. didn't have any WR's cause he still had to get open. If you are catching that many balls you are consistently beating the LB's and DB's.

I think LJ Smith is a vey solid player and Clark would get alot more balls if he were in any other offense.[/quote]

My judgment is reserved until I see that Winslow can do it again. Smith is solid, but again he's not great like Cooley. And Clark gets the balls he gets BECAUSE of the offense he's in. Any other team makes him less than good.

Re: Joyner: Cooley underrated
 

[quote=12thMan;317948]He's replaceable. What does that mean exactly? You can line another body in that position and the Redskins will be just as fine? If that's the case, couldn't that same be said of, well, all the positions across the board?

If you believe there are curently 13 TE better than Chris Cooley, then there's no trying to reason this point.[/quote]

It means that someone who does what he does, which is catch anywhere from 50 -70 balls and scores 5-7 times is replaceable. In other words you could find someone in the draft or in free agency to get that type of production. Yes it's tough to find but it's not like it's impossible.

I didn't say all of those guys were better. Some of them are better than Cooley. I said they had equal skills or better skills.

Re: Joyner: Cooley underrated
 

[quote=TheMalcolmConnection;317956]My judgment is reserved until I see that Winslow can do it again. Smith is solid, but again he's not great like Cooley. And Clark gets the balls he gets BECAUSE of the offense he's in. Any other team makes him less than good.[/quote]

So you are saying Cooley is a great TE? I wouldn't say that quite yet. I wouldn't put him in Gates or Tony G. league quite yet. He could get there. But he ain't there yet.

Re: Joyner: Cooley underrated
 

[quote=Mattyk72;317907]Look at what Gates has done so far in his career:

265 catches, 3378 yards, 12.7 avg, 34 TDs.

As for Winslow:

94 catches, 925 yards, 9.8 avg, 3 TDs.

So why would I think Winslow is better than Gates??

I can't wait to hear this logic.[/quote]Product of offense? Maybe? Possibly?

All you've done is shown that Gates has been given a lot more oppertunities in his career. This would be a stupid point to debate anyway.

I think that given identital oppertunites that Winslow would produce a bit more than Gates. I also happen to think Winslow is the better blocker which is half of a TE's game anyway.

Even if I'm wrong, I don't see how in the world you could think its absured. Why have a discussion fourm if only conventional logic can be right?

We can't discuss TEs and not look at blocking first. We just can't.

Re: Joyner: Cooley underrated
 

[quote=skinsfan69;317960]It means that someone who does what he does, which is catch anywhere from 50 -70 balls and scores 5-7 times is replaceable. In other words you could find someone in the draft or in free agency to get that type of production. Yes it's tough to find but it's not like it's impossible.

I didn't say all of those guys were better. Some of them are better than Cooley. I said they had equal skills or better skills.[/quote]Replaceable implies that its not all that hard to find. I mean, some very good players can be replaceable, but only at positions in which such skills are quite common for the league.

Re: Joyner: Cooley underrated
 

Well i just ran across this article on NFL.com and its the top 100 fantasy players (I know its only for fantasy but its also a ranking of top players at theri positions and this guy ranked Cooley as the #6 TE overall)

[url=http://www.nfl.com/fantasy/story/10224491]NFL.com - NFL Fantasy[/url]

Re: Joyner: Cooley underrated
 

[quote=TheMalcolmConnection;317956]My judgment is reserved until I see that Winslow can do it again. Smith is solid, but again he's not great like Cooley. And Clark gets the balls he gets BECAUSE of the offense he's in. Any other team makes him less than good.[/quote]Both you and Skinsfan69 have good points on Winslow. I don't know exactly how good he is, but theres no reason to think that he isn't going to be one of the best TEs in the league.

Re: Joyner: Cooley underrated
 

[quote=skinsWill;317971]Well i just ran across this article on NFL.com and its the top 100 fantasy players (I know its only for fantasy but its also a ranking of top players at theri positions and this guy ranked Cooley as the #6 TE overall)

[URL="http://www.nfl.com/fantasy/story/10224491"]NFL.com - NFL Fantasy[/URL][/quote]Chris Cooley is a very good fantasy TE.

That said, when trying to pick fantasy receivers and TEs, the ONLY guys you want to grab are the ones who are going to get the most passes thrown at them. Everything else is unimportant.

So this rankings list is just as solid as anyone elses, because we all know Cooley is going to get looks, its just a matter of whether or not he gets more looks than every other TE in the league.

Re: Joyner: Cooley underrated
 

[quote=GTripp0012;317968]Product of offense? Maybe? Possibly?

All you've done is shown that Gates has been given a lot more oppertunities in his career. This would be a stupid point to debate anyway.

I think that given identital oppertunites that Winslow would produce a bit more than Gates. I also happen to think Winslow is the better blocker which is half of a TE's game anyway.

Even if I'm wrong, I don't see how in the world you could think its absured. Why have a discussion fourm if only conventional logic can be right?

We can't discuss TEs and not look at blocking first. We just can't.[/quote]

What I've shown is Gates has been a very productive TE in this league for several seasons, and Winslow has a long way to go before he is in the same class of Gates.

It's your personal opinon that Winslow is better, that's fine but I just thought maybe you had something more solid to back up your take with.

Re: Joyner: Cooley underrated
 

[quote=Mattyk72;317976]What I've shown is Gates has been a very productive TE in this league for several seasons, and Winslow has a long way to go before he is in the same class of Gates.

It's your personal opinon that Winslow is better, that's fine but I just thought maybe you had something more solid to back up your take with.[/quote]Well, then by the same standard, wouldn't Desmond Clark be better than Chris Cooley?

Yes, Gates has been very productive from several seasons, and good for him, but based on what the Chargers have tried to do on offense these last few years, I don't think Gates has been better than what we should have expected from the position and team. Winslow, I believe, has been better than what we expected from the position and team, albeit in very limited time.

Thats my case.

Re: Joyner: Cooley underrated
 

It cracks me up how, sometimes, it takes 40 or 50 posts before someone's arguments finally devolve into " 'cause I said so" - even though that was obvious to everyone else at the beginning.

Re: Joyner: Cooley underrated
 

[QUOTE=GTripp0012;317968]Product of offense? Maybe? Possibly?

All you've done is shown that Gates has been given a lot more oppertunities in his career. This would be a stupid point to debate anyway.

I think that given identital oppertunites that Winslow would produce a bit more than Gates. I also happen to think Winslow is the better blocker which is half of a TE's game anyway.

Even if I'm wrong, I don't see how in the world you could think its absured. Why have a discussion fourm if only conventional logic can be right?

We can't discuss TEs and not look at blocking first. We just can't.[/QUOTE]

Evaluating a TE based primarily on blocking skills is kind of conventional isn't it? But why evaluate TEs only by conventional thinking? Maybe the position has evolved.

In the words of Doc Brown, "You're not thinking 4th dimensionally"

Re: Joyner: Cooley underrated
 

[quote=bedlamVR;317860]Okay now you are on crack ...

[B] One of my favorite Cowboys players has to be Witten[/B].. he is a chain mover as is Cooley . I actually don't rate Gates that much, he is amongst the best in the leauge but he is esentially a converted basket ball player with limited moves, speed and has questionable blocking skills . What SD do well with him is ask him to go out there and esentially go for the jump balls .

You have the great TE's in history like Mike Ditka etc but they are often overlooked . In the Dallas reign of terror 92-96 I think the most valuble offensive players they had were in order, Aikmen, Smith, Novacheck, Allen, Irvin .

When I think of great TEs right now i like Ben Watson in NE, Dallas Clark as fantasy stud last year on my team, Jason Witten, Chris Cooley, Tony G - but only as a pass catcher, he is not the best blocker in the world, Vernon Davis - was ripping it up before his injury, and Kelen Winslow .

I also think the eara of the great TE is still to come but if you have a top flight all round skills like Cooley you do not let him walk because you simply cannot go out and replace them. It is a undervalued possition in the collages and NFL, often spare tackles who can catch get stuck on the end as a TE.[/quote]

:doh:........