Re: Just plain ugly
 

You know what blows my mind? The Redskins ran the exact same formation shift on 4th down that they ran in the pre-season against Baltimore and Miami still jumped offsides. That's bad coaching. I could see that from a mile away. Gibbs would never go for it on 4th and 2 in that situation.

I'm not sure why they flagged us. Sellers may have moved late which would make it two men in motion at the same time rather than a shift or the ref can flag Yoder for simulating the snap if he begins his motion with too jerky a movement that is unnatural and obviously an attempt to draw the defense offsides. At any rate, I like the attempted deception. I would have liked a better explanation from the refs, especially since Gibbs told him what they were going to do before the game.

Re: Just plain ugly
 

[quote=hooskins;349468]Ok so I still have huge questions about our Dline. Yes they helped stop the run, but that was more our safeties and LBs coming up to tackle. But what about a pass rush? I dont think our guys did a good enough job pressuring the QB. It seems like the front 4 cant get pressure on their own. With the except of 1-2 pressures by Andre Carter, our D line didnt seem to give them too much of a scare on passing downs.[/quote]
Yes they did not get good pressure today, what is new. But, I did notice quite a few tipped balls a the line of scrimmage though. Just like they did in 05'.

Re: Just plain ugly
 

Yeah I dont know about that call on 4 2 by the refs. Gibbs seemed to be pretty pissed about that too in the presser.

Re: Just plain ugly
 

[QUOTE=skinsguy;349442]Definitely an off day for him, but I look for Moss to make up for it next week.

Has anybody said anything about Andre Carter? They guy should have a good solid year this year.[/QUOTE]

Carter didn't look that good overall. Had only 2 pressures, 1 sack. He started off with a bang, then went back to mediocre.

I agree...Moss will be back next week. 100+ yard performance next week.

Re: Just plain ugly
 

[quote=hooskins;349486]Yeah I dont know about that call on 4 2 by the refs. Gibbs seemed to be pretty pissed about that too in the presser.[/quote]


My first reaction was that Sellers moved late. They have to move at the same time. And this is an easy call for the refs. But the refs apparently told Gibbs they flagged Yoder because when he started his motion he did it too abruptly. If that's the case it's a horseshit call and a key one. The Redskins put it right there on the Baltimore film for Miami to see. Maybe next time Gibbs should have the staff put a message on the Jumbo-tron: "We're going to try to draw you offsides now, be careful."

Re: Just plain ugly
 

Yeah, that was a terrible call. If you see the press-conference with Gibbs after the game he addresses that play. The refs hate us.

Re: Just plain ugly
 

[QUOTE=70Chip;349496]My first reaction was that Sellers moved late. They have to move at the same time. And this is an easy call for the refs. But the refs apparently told Gibbs they flagged Yoder because when he started his motion he did it too abruptly. If that's the case it's a horseshit call and a key one. The Redskins put it right there on the Baltimore film for Miami to see. Maybe next time Gibbs should have the staff put a message on the Jumbo-tron: "We're going to try to draw you offsides now, be careful."[/QUOTE]

Well, there were two problems.
1- Yoder was set, meaning he needs to back up and then go into motion, not just decide to go lateral at any moment.
2- Sellers and Yoder were in motion, which is illegal.

Either way, the refs got it right, and I'm glad they did cause we should have gone for the FG at that point, not give up that good positioning if we didn't make the first.

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[QUOTE=jsarno;349516]Well, there were two problems.
1- Yoder was set, meaning he needs to back up and then go into motion, not just decide to go lateral at any moment.
2- [B]Sellers and Yoder were in motion, which is illegal[/B].

Either way, the refs got it right, and I'm glad they did cause we should have gone for the FG at that point, not give up that good positioning if we didn't make the first.[/QUOTE]

If both of them get set before the ball is snapped then it is a shift and not a motion so it is not illegal.They did it in the pre-season and didnt get flagged.

Re: Just plain ugly
 

[quote=jsarno;349516]Well, there were two problems.
1- Yoder was set, meaning he needs to back up and then go into motion, not just decide to go lateral at any moment.
2- Sellers and Yoder were in motion, which is illegal.

Either way, the refs got it right.[/quote]


Good call perhaps but,

1. Don't hold a convention every time a flag gets thrown, and
2. Give a decent explanation.

The ref today just looked in way over his head.

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[QUOTE=70Chip;349521]Good call perhaps but,

1. Don't hold a convention every time a flag gets thrown, and
2. Give a decent explanation.

The ref today just looked in way over his head.[/QUOTE]

I'll agree with you on that.

Love them hogs...once you set yourself, you can not move two players at a time.

Re: Just plain ugly
 

[QUOTE=jsarno;349545]I'll agree with you on that.

Love them hogs...once you set yourself, you can not move two players at a time.[/QUOTE]

I guess unless someone can get some real proof as to what the rules are we will just have to disagree on this one.I think I have seen multiple players shift at the same time after setting but maybe im wrong.I think the only players that cant do this is lineman.I will try to look up the rules but they can be vague sometimes.

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[QUOTE=love them hogs;349571]I guess unless someone can get some real proof as to what the rules are we will just have to disagree on this one.I think I have seen multiple players shift at the same time after setting but maybe im wrong.I think the only players that cant do this is lineman.I will try to look up the rules but they can be vague sometimes.[/QUOTE]

Look at my post with the rules link in the "what the hell" thread

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[QUOTE=SmootSmack;349575]Look at my post with the rules link in the "what the hell" thread[/QUOTE]

This was the first time I have ever looked something up and prepared to reply with a link to back up my stance and you beat me to it Smootsmack , Damn you.That is even the exact same link I was going to provide.Oh well, It doesnt say anything about not being allowed move multiple players before the snap even if they have already set.So I guess it just came down to the fact that the refs thought that Yoders movement was too jerkey (is that a word?).

Re: Just plain ugly
 

[QUOTE=love them hogs;349590]This was the first time I have ever looked something up and prepared to reply with a link to back up my stance and you beat me to it Smootsmack , Damn you.That is even the exact same link I was going to provide.Oh well, It doesnt say anything about not being allowed move multiple players before the snap even if they have already set.So I guess it just came down to the fact that the refs thought that Yoders movement was too jerkey (is that a word?).[/QUOTE]

But what about this?

"All players of offensive team must be stationary at snap, except one back who may be in motion parallel to scrimmage line or backward (not forward)."

Re: Just plain ugly
 

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;349600]But what about this?

"All players of offensive team must be stationary at snap, except one back who may be in motion parallel to scrimmage line or backward (not forward)."[/QUOTE]

The ball had not been snapped when the refs threw the flag.

Re: Just plain ugly
 

[quote=SmootSmack;349600]But what about this?

"All players of offensive team must be stationary [B]at snap[/B], except one back who may be in motion parallel to scrimmage line or backward (not forward)."[/quote]

I dont think the ball was snapped.

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[QUOTE=love them hogs;349603]The ball had not been snapped when the refs threw the flag.[/QUOTE]

So you're saying that people can move all over the place until the center actually snaps the ball? I think, actually, maybe you're right.

Re: Just plain ugly
 

Not down lineman.

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[QUOTE=love them hogs;349603]The ball had not been snapped when the refs threw the flag.[/QUOTE]

Basically, that rule is saying only 1 person can move before the snap. You're focusing on the word snap, but it's telling you the exception to the rule, which is that only 1 person can be in motion. Just like I said before.

Re: Just plain ugly
 

[QUOTE=jsarno;349621]Basically, that rule is saying only 1 person can move before the snap. You're focusing on the word snap, but it's telling you the exception to the rule, which is that only 1 person can be in motion. Just like I said before.[/QUOTE]

what rule exactly says that?I didnt see that anywhere.

Re: Just plain ugly
 

[QUOTE=jsarno;349621]Basically, that rule is saying only 1 person can move before the snap. You're focusing on the word snap, but it's telling you the exception to the rule, which is that only 1 person can be in motion. Just like I said before.[/QUOTE]

Ironically, the Cowboys just got penalized for "two men moving at the same time"

So maybe it's that multiple players can move before the snap, but they can't have more than one moving at the same time?

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[QUOTE=love them hogs;349623]what rule exactly says that?I didnt see that anywhere.[/QUOTE]

here it is again:
[url=http://www.nfl.com/rulebook/positionofplayers]NFL Rules Digest: Position of Players at Snap[/url]

#7- All players of offensive team must be stationary at snap, except one back who may be in motion parallel to scrimmage line or backward (not forward).

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[QUOTE=SmootSmack;349627]Ironically, the Cowboys just got penalized for "two men moving at the same time"

So maybe it's that multiple players can move before the snap, but they can't have more than one moving at the same time?[/QUOTE]

I was just going to post that. You can't have more than one moving at the same time after they set.

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That means only one person can be moving at the snap of the ball.Even rule numer eight suggest that multiple players can move before the snap by saying that all players must come to an absolute stop for one second.

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[QUOTE=love them hogs;349636]That means only one person can be moving at the snap of the ball.Even rule numer eight suggest that multiple players can move before the snap by saying that all players must come to an absolute stop for one second.[/QUOTE]

Have you not watched any football over the years? (not trying to be sarcastic, just curious) It is well known that you can not have 2 people in motion at the same time.

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[QUOTE=jsarno;349641]Have you not watched any football over the years? (not trying to be sarcastic, just curious) It is well known that you can not have 2 people in motion at the same time.[/QUOTE]

I thought the same thing as you untill the pre-season game this year and now actually looking at the rules. They say nothing about not being allowed to move more than one player at the same time.Show me where it says that exactly ,that you cant move multiple people before the snap.

Re: Just plain ugly
 

Maybe you can find the answer here

[url]http://blogmedia.thenewstribune.com/media/2006%20NFL%20RULEBOOK.pdf[/url]

Re: Just plain ugly
 

It was week one. I thought it was beautiful. We pissed all over one of the best defenses in football. I could watch this 20 times this year and not stop smiling.

Re: Just plain ugly
 

Yea, and we lost alot of close ones last season, that the opposing team won in a ugly fashion.

I certainly don't give a shit we WON! Care less about how pretty it was.

Not many though we could run the ball against this top rated D we did these are positives, this is momentum in the right direction.

Re: Just plain ugly
 

Like this [URL="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/09/09/AR2007090901163.html"]article[/URL] basically says, when you think about it a lot of today really was classic Gibbs. He preaches stopping the run on D, and pounding it on O. And toss in some deep shots for those "explosive" plays. That's the classic Gibbs formula.

Re: Just plain ugly
 

Rule three , section thirtey

A shift is the action of two or more offensive players who (prior to a snap), After having assumed a set position, simultaneously change the position of thier feet by pivoting to or assuming a new set position with either one foot or both feet.

Its all right there.

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[quote=Beemnseven;348987]Yuck.

-- Campbell's out of sync
-- Moss missing perfectly thrown balls
-- Smoot getting torched -- they've been going after him all game
-- Cooley completely shut down

So far, not much different from a typical 2006 game

(at half-time)[/quote]

Win's a win, baby!

Re: Just plain ugly
 

Fletcher and Rocky looked terrific today. Anybody notice? When was the last time we had 2 linebackers make 23 tackles between them? ARE was fabulous. Who was named player of the game? I missed it.

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[QUOTE=GridIron26;349277]Whoa whoa, Cooley wasn't shut down.. He had to stay in and help Ts block Taylor most of time..[/QUOTE]

Cooley got his ass handed to him by Joey Porter a few times today...

Re: Just plain ugly
 

[quote=ncskinsfanec;349714]Win's a win, baby![/quote]

Unfortunately its not that simple. We lost a key player today and on top of that we struggled against a very mediocre team. I hope its just a game of rust attributed to the fact that our 1st teamers didnt get time together. if we play like this we can expect a 6-10 or 7-9 season. we still didn't have a pass rush down the stretch and didn't capitalize on turnovers. Our secondary definitely looked like they went out and partied the nite before and were hungover during the game, with the exception of springs (what happened to Area 51???) I don't think I have ever been so relieved and at the same time disappointed after a game that we won.

Re: Just plain ugly
 

[QUOTE=love them hogs;349698]Rule three , section thirtey

A shift is the action of two or more offensive players who (prior to a snap), After having assumed a set position, simultaneously change the position of thier feet by pivoting to or assuming a new set position with either one foot or both feet.

Its all right there.[/QUOTE]

No it's not...read it again..."change the position of their feet", not move from their set position to another position on the other side of the field. So they are in the same relative area, but went into a 3 point stance, or shifted slightly to the left or something of that nature.
It does not say anything about running to a new position.
And that seems like it would be a false start to me.

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Here is the article that says it all:
[i]Article 5 At the snap, all offensive players must be stationary in their positions:
(a) without any movement of feet, head, or arms;
(b) without swaying of body; and
(c) without moving directly forward [b]except that one player only and he, playing in a
backfield position, may be in motion provided he is moving, parallel to, obliquely
backward from, or directly backward from the line of scrimmage at snap.[/b][/i]

It's on page 41 FYI.

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There is also this which means the penalty was legit:
[i]Note 2: Non-abrupt movement of head and/or shoulders by offensive players prior to the
snap is legal. Players must come to a stop before ball is snapped. If officials judge the
action of the offensive players to be abrupt, false start foul is to be called.
Penalty: For player illegally in motion at snap: Loss of five yards from previous
spot. In case of doubt, this penalty shall be enforced.[/i]

Re: Just plain ugly
 

i remember peyton manning pulling a sneaky play walking away from the line of scrimmage like he was confused like he was yelling to the sidelines to make the defense think nothing was happening then they snapped it to a back .. he was moving the whole time" so he did not come to a complete stop. this probably has nothing to do with this situation but he was in motion just not moving forward and apparently that was legal. so its just the linemen that cannot move at all once they are set. backs anc receivers can

Re: Just plain ugly
 

[quote=SmootSmack;349627]Ironically, the Cowboys just got penalized for "two men moving at the same time"

So maybe it's that multiple players can move before the snap, but they can't have more than one moving at the same time?[/quote]

Or maybe they saw what happened to us earlier and said , We better call it and if its wrong we can just say thats the way they called in the skins/phins game earlier. just so they are consistant