Re: Fat tax?? What next, Big Brother?
 

[quote=RobH4413;365763]Some may find it interesting that Montgomery County, MD has banned sales on all food containing trans fats. Way to go rich people.


[URL="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/05/15/AR2007051501387.html"]Montgomery Bans Trans Fats in Restaurants, Markets - washingtonpost.com[/URL][/quote]
The same is in NY city I believe.

Re: Fat tax?? What next, Big Brother?
 

Hey you guys keep this going I have to leave work and stop by KFC to pick up dinner and 7/11 to get a 12 pack to chase it down.

Re: Fat tax?? What next, Big Brother?
 

[QUOTE=firstdown;365778]I vote for the extra day off because thats when I do my healthest stuff like running to the frig for a cold one.[/QUOTE]

Hell yeah...I'd rather work 10 hours a day 4 days a week than work 8 hours a day 5 days a week.
Then again, I don't remember the last time I had a 40 hour a week job. All my jobs have been around 48 minimum, couple being about 60 minimum.

A lot of unhealthy eaters and people are unhealthy because they have very little time to sit down and eat healthy...they are always working.

Re: Fat tax?? What next, Big Brother?
 

[quote=jsarno;365651]Depends on who you're talking about...there are still several states with no Helmet laws, such as where I live in NM.

I understand the comments about these people should pay a higher premium to kill themselves, it's a valid argument, but my concern is the slippery slope we're heading down.
Seat belt laws, anti gun laws, cig taxes...they are all in an effort to somehow control the general population. Wearing a seat belt should be my choice. Wearing a helmet should be my choice. Eating a burger at McDonalds should be my choice without having to pay a higher premium. What you guys are failing to see is that if this tax goes through places like McDonalds, Burger king etc will lose business, if they lose business, what is going to happen to the economy? How many employees do those fast food places employ? By taxing the food, the gov is saying we the people are wrong for choosing it. In a lot of cases we are, but who is the Gov to step in and tell everyone so. I personally HATE McDonalds with a passion, but my wife (who is 115 pounds) LOVES it. (the big n tasty) She is not fat, nor out of shape. She exercises every day to every other day...why should she be over charged for that burger?
I wear a selt belt every time I get in a car, but I understand the rights of others to not want to. I grew up in a state where you didn't have to (Mass) until recently. I don't always wear a helmet when I ride my motorcycle, and it's quite a different experience for those that haven't done it. I wear it when I plan to ride fast, (highways), but I don't if I'm piddling around town. I should never be told I have to wear a helmet, or a seat belt.
AGain, I understand the counter point to this, but I feel a lot of people are missing the point that this is becoming an evermore slippery slope. What's next? We are allowing the government to tell us what to do in just about everything we do, and that's not why the government is here. The government should not say "well you're not going to take care of yourself, so we will take care of you for you." [B]And who really takes the brunt of this general idea? The people who work hard for a living. Cause they are over taxed and no cig tax, or fast food tax will decrease the amount of tax burden on the working man.[/B][/quote]


THANKYOU

Re: Fat tax?? What next, Big Brother?
 

[quote=jsarno;365788]Hell yeah...I'd rather work 10 hours a day 4 days a week than work 8 hours a day 5 days a week.
Then again, I don't remember the last time I had a 40 hour a week job. All my jobs have been around 48 minimum, couple being about 60 minimum.

[B]A lot of unhealthy eaters and people are unhealthy because they have very little time to sit down and eat healthy...they are always working[/B].[/quote]

That's a super lame excuse.

If you have time to go to these places and order, you have the time to pack a healthy lunch, and it's a heck of a lot cheaper to brown bag it.

Let's not sugar coat things, people are unhealthy eaters because they choose to be.

Re: Fat tax?? What next, Big Brother?
 

[quote=Schneed10;365654]I think you're way off base and a little crazy at the same time.

If you think the tax is about anything other than trying to find a way to fund healthcare for the 40 million people who don't have coverage, then you're crazy. Politicians want votes, and if they pass a tax that helps 40 million people get coverage a bit easier, then they'll do it.

Politicians don't care if you die from eating fatty food. All they care about is getting elected, so they're not going to care about your freedom to eat a big mac. They just want votes.

Secondly, I think you're WAY overblowing this. For some reason, you're equating a tax with the government discouraging you (or even prohibiting you) from doing certain things. It sounds like you smoked some bad dope and you can't shake the paranoia. Trust me Hog, this fat tax is not a gateway to a mandatory nationwide 7:00 pm curfew. Nobody's trying to control you, they just want more money so they can make more people in the country vote for them.[/quote]


Honestly Schneed, I don't normally find your posts amusing, but I really Laughed out loud on some of this.
I really don't care what political motivations are afoot here. The Fed demonstrates balderdash in their policy making daily. I am concerned only with the end result. Americans do not need any more govt intervention where they have no business.
Again, I have no idea if this is conspiratorial in nature, or just stupid, but, again, the end result is more (and increasingly more) intervention where they have no business. Things like this may at sometime impact something that "does" mean something to you, which may change your view?
We have become a "me" society, rather than a "we" society which helps the fed get away with things like this. Or................maybe..were just to damn lazy you care until things cause us problems personally.
That having been said, I find your view on this way to close the the "party line".....comrade

Re: Fat tax?? What next, Big Brother?
 

[quote=Mattyk72;365666]If you don't like insurance don't buy it. After all the odds are in your favor of probably never needing to use it.[/quote]
Take it easy insurance guy! I'm sure it wasn't personal

Re: Fat tax?? What next, Big Brother?
 

[quote=Hog1;365973]Take it easy insurance guy! I'm sure it wasn't personal[/quote]

I didn't take it personally... I'm simply stating the truth. Odds are you'll never use the insurance that you have.

Re: Fat tax?? What next, Big Brother?
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;365666]If you don't like insurance don't buy it. After all the odds are in your favor of probably never needing to use it.[/QUOTE]

This highlights what I think is a divide in people's thinking.

I look at insurance and see it as something I am always using. To me the service it provides is that it sits there and waits. Ithas your back when you need to pay medical bills. The service is not just the paying of the medical bills but rather the ability to do so. In this way I am always using it.

It seems your way of thinking is that it is more like an account that you put money into and at some point you may or may not take money out.

I am not sure there is a right and wrong way of thinking about it but to me I like thinking that money spent on insurance that I never use is still money well spent because I know when I need it I will have it.

A slight distinction but huge in its effect or one's emotional reaction to insurance.

Re: Fat tax?? What next, Big Brother?
 

[quote=FRPLG;366030]This highlights what I think is a divide in people's thinking.

I look at insurance and see it as something I am always using. To me the service it provides is that it sits there and waits. Ithas your back when you need to pay medical bills. The service is not just the paying of the medical bills but rather the ability to do so. In this way I am always using it.

It seems your way of thinking is that it is more like an account that you put money into and at some point you may or may not take money out.

I am not sure there is a right and wrong way of thinking about it but to me I like thinking that money spent on insurance that I never use is still money well spent because I know when I need it I will have it.

A slight distinction but huge in its effect or one's emotional reaction to insurance.[/quote]

Good way to put it.

Re: Fat tax?? What next, Big Brother?
 

As to the fat tax, it is, like so many other taxes an incentive to act in a healthy manner and/or to forward a legitmate public goal - good public health.

Gov't consistently uses taxes and tax breaks to create incentives. The classic is the Mortgage Interest tax break - used as an incentive to home ownership. Why should renters subsidize those who buy homes? There are a multitude of breaks for kids, healthcare and etc. - Again, why should single people subsidize those who choose to have kids?

Since its inception, taxes have been used both as a revenue generator and as a means of discouraging behavior deemed bad for the public in general and encouraging behavior deemed good for the public in general.

Are there inefficiencies? Yes, of course their are. As Schneed said, there are 40 million people. And before you go gripping about 10k toilet seats etc. Can you show me where that is the norm? Compared to the fact that you can safely and reliably (on a daily basis) send a letter cross country for 40 cents, count on the government to ensure certain quality standards in the foods you buy, maintain interstates other avenues of travel, etc. etc. etc. I would suggest that the inefficiencies are greatly outweighed by the innumerable day to day benefits that are insured by the existence of the federal, state and local governments.

(If you want an efficient government, throw fairness out the window. Fairness costs money and we, as a society, have said that we are willing to pay that premium. It's cliched but true - Mussolini made the trains run on time).

Re: Fat tax?? What next, Big Brother?
 

[QUOTE=Hog1;365959]THANKYOU[/QUOTE]

You're welcome. :D

Re: Fat tax?? What next, Big Brother?
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;365960]That's a super lame excuse.

If you have time to go to these places and order, you have the time to pack a healthy lunch, and it's a heck of a lot cheaper to brown bag it.

Let's not sugar coat things, people are unhealthy eaters because they choose to be.[/QUOTE]

Well, no, I think you're misunderstanding me. No matter what the case, people are unhealthy because of THEIR CHOICES. That's obvious. All I'm saying is if the Government wants to do something to "help" don't tax people more. It's not going to lessen the burden on ANYONE. All it's going to do is make someone's pockets fatter. So if you are truly interested in helping people make changes (they are not, but go with me) then you need to help where there are big issues. Such as people not having the time for a good home cooked meal, so they settle for whatever they can get. Eating healthy takes a back seat to work.

For the record, I am for the Government having as little to do with invasion on my life as possible. If I am going to smoke, so be it, if I am going to over eat, so be it. All I was trying to do was offer up another solution. Taxing doesn't do a thing.
We have a massive issue in this country with teenage pregnancy and unwed pregnancy and the majority will eventually get on WIC, or some sort of government assistance. So what's next? Require all the women to have an IUD put in???
I'd rather the government tell me I need to work less for the same pay. That would send a shock wave of caring to the country. (not gonna happen, but just saying)

Re: Fat tax?? What next, Big Brother?
 

[quote=jsarno;366095]Well, no, I think you're misunderstanding me. No matter what the case, people are unhealthy because of THEIR CHOICES. That's obvious. All I'm saying is if the Government wants to do something to "help" don't tax people more. It's not going to lessen the burden on ANYONE. All it's going to do is make someone's pockets fatter. So if you are truly interested in helping people make changes (they are not, but go with me) then you need to help where there are big issues. Such as people not having the time for a good home cooked meal, so they settle for whatever they can get. Eating healthy takes a back seat to work.

For the record, I am for the Government having as little to do with invasion on my life as possible. If I am going to smoke, so be it, if I am going to over eat, so be it. All I was trying to do was offer up another solution. Taxing doesn't do a thing.
We have a massive issue in this country with teenage pregnancy and unwed pregnancy and the majority will eventually get on WIC, or some sort of government assistance. So what's next? Require all the women to have an IUD put in???
I'd rather the government tell me I need to work less for the same pay. That would send a shock wave of caring to the country. (not gonna happen, but just saying)[/quote]

I guess I am misunderstanding you because I was responding to this:

[B]A lot of unhealthy eaters and people are unhealthy because they have very little time to sit down and eat healthy...they are always working[/B].

I just don't see where that holds any water.

Re: Fat tax?? What next, Big Brother?
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;366104]I guess I am misunderstanding you because I was responding to this:

[B]A lot of unhealthy eaters and people are unhealthy because they have very little time to sit down and eat healthy...they are always working[/B].

I just don't see where that holds any water.[/QUOTE]

That came from other comments. Maybe I wasn't clear enough. But hopefully you understand what I'm saying after that last post.

Again, no matter what, it's ALWAYS the responsibility of the person. But you're talking out of both sides of your mouth. On one hand you say it's the person's responsibility to make a lunch, on the other you're all for taxing to stop the over eating / poor eating habits.

Re: Fat tax?? What next, Big Brother?
 

[quote=jsarno;365764]I'm not sure either way, but is there any proof to this? A massive heart attack is pretty cheap when the ambulance arrives and the guy is dead.
On the flip side, those that live longer and get other issues such as memory problems (can't spell alz....), do suck off the government. We're paying medicare and social security, as well as supporting nursing homes...not to mention the MASSIVE amount of elderly people that are taking 10 or more meds a DAY.
I am just not sure either way is more expensive than the other...any one have stats on this?[/quote]
yeah, we would definitely have to see some numbers but i think in general a fat person does eat (no pun) at the economy more than a healthy person. Fatty foods lead to diabetes and many other health related problems before a massive heart attack that finishes it.

However, i don't have too much of a problem with taxing fatty foods. It leads to greater production of healthier foods by companies. Now it is a personal judgment call on what you think about that.

Re: Fat tax?? What next, Big Brother?
 

[quote=jsarno;366118]That came from other comments. Maybe I wasn't clear enough. But hopefully you understand what I'm saying after that last post.

Again, no matter what, it's ALWAYS the responsibility of the person. But you're talking out of both sides of your mouth. On one hand you say it's the person's responsibility to make a lunch, on the other you're all for taxing to stop the over eating / poor eating habits.[/quote]

I think you're getting a little ahead of things here. I was merely saying that being too busy isn't a legit excuse for eating poorly.

Regarding taxing fast food, I really don't think it would curtail poor eating habits either. In a perfect world though we would use that tax money to go to progams to promote healthier eating and exercise, but I'm well aware with our gov't that's unlikely to happen since they never seem to be able to properly distribute funds to where they need to go unless it's war related.

My approval of a fast food tax is not tied into a belief that it would curtail poor eating habits.

I honestly don't care if they tax fast food since I very rarely eat it. I just don't have a problem with it if they do choose to tax it.

Re: Fat tax?? What next, Big Brother?
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;366126]I think you're getting a little ahead of things here. I was merely saying that being too busy isn't a legit excuse for eating poorly.

Regarding taxing fast food, I really don't think it would curtail poor eating habits either. In a perfect world though we would use that tax money to go to progams to promote healthier eating and exercise, but I'm well aware with our gov't that's unlikely to happen since they never seem to be able to properly distribute funds to where they need to go unless it's war related.

My approval of a fast food tax is not tied into a belief that it would curtail poor eating habits.

I honestly don't care if they tax fast food since I very rarely eat it. I just don't have a problem with it if they do choose to tax it.[/QUOTE]

To be honest, I am all for the tax, IF (and that's a massive if) they can actually use the money for a healthier life. I just know they won't. It's just their way of getting more money and using a poor excuse to do it.

I do still think it's a slippery slope. What's next...tax salt? That causes high blood pressure and is in just about everything you eat. Shit, it's the most abundant extracellular substance in your body.

Re: Fat tax?? What next, Big Brother?
 

If salt intake was becoming a national epidemic like obesity is, then hell why not, tax that too. :)

Re: Fat tax?? What next, Big Brother?
 

[quote=Mattyk72;366163]If salt intake was becoming a national epidemic like obesity is, then hell why not, tax that too. :)[/quote]

Agreed.

Jsarno, it's fine that if you want to smoke, you should be able to smoke. If you want to eat big macs and milkshakes for breakfast lunch and dinner, you should be able to.

But while you're doing that, is it fair for me to pay the same amount towards Medicare as you?

While you're doing whatever you want, exercising whatever freedoms you want, I'm paying for Medicare that you'll probably use twice as much as I will. That's the REAL unfair part in all of this. What people fail to realize is that their health choices do actually financially impact the rest of us. That's the very nature of a risk pool. So doing whatever you want and damn the consequences is actually a pretty selfish way to behave.

Re: Fat tax?? What next, Big Brother?
 

[QUOTE=Schneed10;366204]Agreed.

Jsarno, it's fine that if you want to smoke, you should be able to smoke. If you want to eat big macs and milkshakes for breakfast lunch and dinner, you should be able to.

But while you're doing that, is it fair for me to pay the same amount towards Medicare as you?

While you're doing whatever you want, exercising whatever freedoms you want, I'm paying for Medicare that you'll probably use twice as much as I will. That's the REAL unfair part in all of this. What people fail to realize is that their health choices do actually financially impact the rest of us. That's the very nature of a risk pool. So doing whatever you want and damn the consequences is actually a pretty selfish way to behave.[/QUOTE]

Well, I hope that is rhetorical, because I do not smoke, nor drink, nor do I like fast food places.
By taxing a burger won't change what you and I are already paying. In fact, it won't do a thing...that's the point. It's just another way to tax everyone and it in no way will reduce the tax burden on the every day tax payer.
The people that do smoke and eat horrible foods already pay high premiums for insurances such as life insurance and medical insurance that require physicals.
So while I see your point, and frankly, I agree with most of it about the unfair part, this is in no way a solution to change things.
If you can guarentee me the tax will go to something useful, or reduce the tax burden on the hard working american, I'll go for it. But this is just another way for the government to steal money from the hard working man. I hope no one is nieve enough to think this is about anything but money. If we allow this to take place, then they will think they have a free ride to tax whatever they want. Like I said, it's a slippery slope.

Re: Fat tax?? What next, Big Brother?
 

[quote=Schneed10;366204]Agreed.

Jsarno, it's fine that if you want to smoke, you should be able to smoke. If you want to eat big macs and milkshakes for breakfast lunch and dinner, you should be able to.

But while you're doing that, is it fair for me to pay the same amount towards Medicare as you?

While you're doing whatever you want, exercising whatever freedoms you want, I'm paying for Medicare that you'll probably use twice as much as I will. That's the REAL unfair part in all of this. What people fail to realize is that their health choices do actually financially impact the rest of us. That's the very nature of a risk pool. So doing whatever you want and damn the consequences is actually a pretty selfish way to behave.[/quote]So I guess we should tax poor people more because they use more social programs more than others.