Re: 2 Qualms with the loss
 

[quote=jamf;380025]Campbell was good, Unfortunately he is never good enough in the clutch. If only he had hit moss in the end zone. It seems like every loss there is an open WR that he misses.[/quote]

He also hits receivers that drop balls. The pass to Cooley late in the game was a bit low, but it hit both of Cooley's hands and he didn't hang on. And the pass to Moss was just slightly off. If the same exact pass was thrown to TO, Randy Moss, Plaxico, Andre Johnson, etc., then it's a touchdown, but Washington doesn't believe in receivers that are over six feet tall.

Re: 2 Qualms with the loss
 

I really dont understand G. Williams def strategy. He doesnt blitz and allows the better QB's in the league time to pick us apart. The skins were exposed in the Patriots game, as to how to beat this D, and he hasnt adjusted. Its obvious that our front four cannot create pressure on its own (as was pointed out by many on this site, a dline upgrade was needed in the offseason). If we rush Romo or put him on his back, he doesnt have time to throw bombs! And for the response I know Im going to get.... "ST was out so we couldnt blitz" well, would a blitzer have let TO any more wide open?

Re: 2 Qualms with the loss
 

Romo was under quite a bit of pressure at times yesterday and simply got the ball off in time. I think we may have seen more blitzing if Taylor was playing. Having him out really hurt the entire defensive game plan.

Re: 2 Qualms with the loss
 

[quote=Gmanc711;380044]Agree about Samuels, but they need to give him more help than that, in my opinion. D. Ware is way too good for that.[/quote]

Samuels is good but not good enough to stop Ware the whole game without help. Not his fault, just reality. Of four bombs to TO, three involved mental errors and one was caused by a missed tackle. The secondary played a bad game-- worse than expected, even without Taylor. The pass interference play was also a brain-dead play and the 50 yard FG attempt on fourth and one was just as stupid, as was the FG after second failing to go for seven on fourth and one. It was also a mistake not to pass on third and three, which set up the bad decision to go for a field goal.

Conclusions:

We lost this one between the ears, the place where we have lost most of our games this year and made others close that should have been easy wins.

Even with Taylor, our defense needs help. We need a proven CB of quality and two defensive linemen, including a DE.

Gibbs and Co. should totally forget about Redskin Football and play Campbell Football. If Campbell had played more last year and Gibbs had turned him loose at the start of this one, we'd now be at least 8-2.

Drafting a WR is not a top priority. Using the ones we have is.

Re: 2 Qualms with the loss
 

"I, personally, don't feel that Gregg Williams should be the next head coach of this team. I'm not sure that he should be the D Coordinator next year. I think he's overrated. He came up with terrible gameplans today, against the Pats and against the Eagles. I don't like the way he deploys his defense and I think they've been garbage the last few weeks because of him."

agreed, i think williams is just absurdly arrogant. this could all be my perception (from the media) but adjustments needed to be made...i guess i feel like he's so in love with his own genius that he's blindly self confident. i really have no basis for this comment, but its def. the perception he gives...

ON a side note, while we did miss a FG, so did Dallas...

Re: 2 Qualms with the loss
 

[quote=jamf;380025]Let me add my 2:

Samuels played the worst of the 5 linemen. Overall, they did enough to win but samuels getting beat really cost us.


Campbell was good, Unfortunately he is never good enough in the clutch. If only he had hit moss in the end zone. It seems like every loss there is an open WR that he misses.


We could've pulled this one out :([/quote]

Well how many LT's can play Ware straight up for over 50 pass plays?? Chances are Ware is going to get a few sacks with that many attempts. Give Ware some credit. He is one of the best pass rushers in the NFL.

Re: 2 Qualms with the loss
 

[quote=BrunellMVP?;380306]"I, personally, don't feel that Gregg Williams should be the next head coach of this team. I'm not sure that he should be the D Coordinator next year. I think he's overrated. He came up with terrible gameplans today, against the Pats and against the Eagles. I don't like the way he deploys his defense and I think they've been garbage the last few weeks because of him."

agreed, i think williams is just absurdly arrogant. this could all be my perception (from the media) but adjustments needed to be made...i guess i feel like he's so in love with his own genius that he's blindly self confident. i really have no basis for this comment, but its def. the perception he gives...

ON a side note, while we did miss a FG, so did Dallas...[/quote]Williams was quick to point out that the players were in the right defense on the TO TDs but the coverages broke down. You will NEVER hear Gibbs call out players in a similar fashion publicly, a huge reason that players have historically played hard for Gibbs - they know he has their back. I'm not sure you can say the same about Williams.

Re: 2 Qualms with the loss
 

Hindsight is certainly 20/20. Suisham has the leg to make that (he just missed it as it was), and you take a chance by putting points on the board. If Eddie Murray was still kicking for the Skins, Gibbs would have gone for it...or punted, which would have lengthened the field for the Cowboys.

To me, it seems that GW did what he could to best protect the field yesterday. For most of the game, the Skins rushed 3 and 4, and dropped 7 back in coverage to protect. Without Sean Taylor back there, it's hard to justify blitzing a lot because you simply leave a weakened secondary out to dry.

You cannot put the secondary's lack of discipline square on him. Prioleau and Doughty are a far cry from Pro Bowl safeties, and the Dallas coaching staff saw an opportunity and exploited it. Mental mistakes led to TO getting behind the secondary 3 times in the 2nd half, not GW's preparation and game plan.

As far as Samuels goes, he was left on an island to take care of one of the best pass rushers in the NFL. I don't think there is a single tackle in the NFL that can take care of DeMarcus Ware by himself.

Jason Campbell had a hell of a game yesterday. He showed the coaching staff that they can put the ball in his hands, and he'll make things happen. However, he's still wet behind the ears and missed several key throws. Only reps and game experience will help him correct those.

Re: 2 Qualms with the loss
 

GW is a smart guy. I think he had the conversation w/ the defense they just didn't execute.

As for the 4th and 1. Us TV coaches were all calling for an easy go for it call. They didn't but i can't argue alot about it. If he would have made it, it may have been the right thing to do. Suprised me but i don't think i would call it a bad, bad call.

Re: 2 Qualms with the loss
 

Springs really had a bad game. I almost wonder if his head wasn't in it. Not that I could blame him for that.

Re: 2 Qualms with the loss
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;380322]Springs really had a bad game. I almost wonder if his head wasn't in it. Not that I could blame him for that.[/QUOTE]

One of the problems I have with Springs having a bad day is that TO has always owned Shawn Springs. TO usually has big games, unless ST is there to light him up or take away the middle. I don't understand how no one else has seen this. The Sharpie incident? That was on Shawn. Everytime we play the Boys or the Eagles (when he was there) TO makes plays.

I'm not taking shots at Springs, but the guy just can't cover TO. Not that that is new to Washington, Champ couldn't cover Amani Toomer.

Re: 2 Qualms with the loss
 

Shawn Springs was getting schooled most of the day yesterday. He had a few nice plays, but for the most part he got eaten up. Sean Taylor would have been the difference maker in that game. I hope he isn't out long.

Re: 2 Qualms with the loss
 

For a bunch of people who said Dallas would blow us away and the game would not even be close I see a bunch of complaning. Most of the people here did not even think the game would be close so how can you even complain because we did better than you thought we could do.

Re: 2 Qualms with the loss
 

I agree on both points.. 95% of the coaches in the NFL go for 4th and one rather than opt for a 50 yard attempt.. The FG is the worst option in that position.. Best case, you get the points but the %ages are very low on that distance plus you lose 7 yards in field position with a miss.

Since the Cowboys couldn't run the ball, after the 2nd TO TD I don't know why we didn't go to more Cover 3.. TO was just running free like a deer in a field thru our secondary.. The bloom is still off the rose for Grilliams as far as I am concerned..

Re: 2 Qualms with the loss
 

[quote=firstdown;380332]For a bunch of people who said Dallas would blow us away and the game would not even be close I see a bunch of complaning. Most of the people here did not even think the game would be close so how can you even complain because we did better than you thought we could do.[/quote]I predicted a Dallas blowout IF Gibbs/Saunders called a conservative game. I'm happy that Jason Campbell has finally been freed. It gives opposing defenses that much more to gameplan moving forward. I like the Skins chances at starting a good run for the post-season, but it MUST start next week with a win at Tampa.

Re: 2 Qualms with the loss
 

[quote=firstdown;380332]For a bunch of people who said Dallas would blow us away and the game would not even be close I see a bunch of complaning. Most of the people here did not even think the game would be close so how can you even complain because we did better than you thought we could do.[/quote]

I predicted a blowout, and I'm happy to say I was wrong. A play here and there and the Skins could have won this game. I was impressed with the overall effort. I hope it carries over to the Tampa game, because it is a must win in my opinion.

Re: 2 Qualms with the loss
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;380322]Springs really had a bad game. I almost wonder if his head wasn't in it. Not that I could blame him for that.[/QUOTE]
Not sure if this article was quoted anywhere else, but...
[url=http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/recap?gid=20071118006]NFL - Washington Redskins/Dallas Cowboys Recap Sunday November 18, 2007 - Yahoo! Sports[/url]
[quote]Redskins cornerback Shawn Springs, who was beaten on several of Owens' touchdowns, said he was overcome by emotion during warmups because he was thinking about his father, former Cowboys running back Ron Springs, who is comatose at a nearby hospital.

"It was tough for me," Springs said. "It brought back a lot of memories of coming to this stadium as a kid."[/quote]

Re: 2 Qualms with the loss
 

[quote=BDBohnzie;380373]Not sure if this article was quoted anywhere else, but...
[URL="http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/recap?gid=20071118006"]NFL - Washington Redskins/Dallas Cowboys Recap Sunday November 18, 2007 - Yahoo! Sports[/URL][/quote]

You know I forgot that his dad was a Dallas player and lives in the area. The bad part is that he had to play no matter what with our injury issues.

Re: 2 Qualms with the loss
 

[quote=firstdown;380332]For a bunch of people who said Dallas would blow us away and the game would not even be close I see a bunch of complaning. Most of the people here did not even think the game would be close so how can you even complain because we did better than you thought we could do.[/quote]

I predicted a Dallas blowout and was surprised as to how well the Redskins offense was able to compete. The defensive secondary broke down, just as I thought they would. The secondary scheme just doesn't seem to work as well without Sean Taylor closing in on those long bombs.

I was pissed off the Skins couldn't pull off the victory. The game was right there for the taking. A couple of plays was the difference.

1) The Rocky McIntosh interception that was called back because of instant replay review.
(That was a catch. The ball never hit the ground.)
2) The Jason Campbell interception at the end of the game.
(He should have run the ball.)

Re: 2 Qualms with the loss
 

I dont know if the point has been brought up yet, didnt want to start a new thread. But was anyone else annoyed with the final series of the game? We needed 70 yards with 40 something seconds to go, no timeouts. Yet the skins are doing dump off passes. Where were the 30-40 yard passes? I know they dropped the D into coverage, but this is a passing league now, take a shot at least. Only 3 things can happen 2 of which are good (maybe 4, incomplete pass nothing happens) a completion [B]GOOD[/B], a pass interference [B]GOOD[/B], or an INT [B]BAD[/B]. I loved how the skins opened up yesterday and took some chances, but there are still the flashes of conservatism (ie the 2 fourth and 1s that we attempted field goals instead of going for it). We could have beaten a great Dallas team.

Re: 2 Qualms with the loss
 

[quote=hail_2_da_skins;380425]I predicted a Dallas blowout and was surprised as to how well the Redskins offense was able to compete. The defensive secondary broke down, just as I thought they would. The secondary scheme just doesn't seem to work as well without Sean Taylor closing in on those long bombs.

I was pissed off the Skins couldn't pull off the victory. The game was right there for the taking. A couple of plays was the difference.

1) The Rocky McIntosh interception that was called back because of instant replay review.
(That was a catch. The ball never hit the ground.)
2) The Jason Campbell interception at the end of the game.
(He should have run the ball.)[/quote]
I agree with your number 2 but that int the ball did hit the ground and he did not even have control of the ball when he roled over. I think if ball was not moving when he rolled over then it would have been a int.

Re: 2 Qualms with the loss
 

[quote=Stacks42;380449]I dont know if the point has been brought up yet, didnt want to start a new thread. But was anyone else annoyed with the final series of the game? We needed 70 yards with 40 something seconds to go, no timeouts. Yet the skins are doing dump off passes. Where were the 30-40 yard passes? I know they dropped the D into coverage, but this is a passing league now, take a shot at least. Only 3 things can happen 2 of which are good (maybe 4, incomplete pass nothing happens) a completion [B]GOOD[/B], a pass interference [B]GOOD[/B], or an INT [B]BAD[/B]. I loved how the skins opened up yesterday and took some chances, but there are still the flashes of conservatism (ie the 2 fourth and 1s that we attempted field goals instead of going for it). We could have beaten a great Dallas team.[/quote]

You don't think Dallas is defending for that type of play? With that amount of time left there is only time for 4-5 plays? 5 at the most. You have to look at it as trying to get 10-15 yards a play w/out any incompletions plus get out of bounds. Very very tough thing to do.

Where we screwed up is not going for it on the 4th downs. Gibbs had to know that FG's were not going to get it done against Dallas. Especially the 50 yarder. That was just plain stupid.

Re: 2 Qualms with the loss
 

I know I'm in way way in the minority here but I don't think going for a field goal is such a disastrous decision. Personally I think I would have punted (heck maybe fake punted!). But Suisham is a key part of our team and there will be times that he will need to hit a 50+ yarder and come through for us. Gibbs took a chance on him making the kick yesterday. He didn't but I'm glad he's showing confidence in him and taking chances on him.

Re: 2 Qualms with the loss
 

[quote=SmootSmack;380628]I know I'm in way way in the minority here but I don't think going for a field goal is such a disastrous decision. Personally I think I would have punted (heck maybe fake punted!). But Suisham is a key part of our team and there will be times that he will need to hit a 50+ yarder and come through for us. Gibbs took a chance on him making the kick yesterday. He didn't but I'm glad he's showing confidence in him and taking chances on him.[/quote]I don't personally think it was the [I]right[/I] decision, but there certainly is a lot of logic behind it.

Simply put, we have an awful short yardage running game. So if you are going for it on 4th and 1, you either have to run at about 50-50 odds, or you have to take advantage of the run heavy defense, and pass.

To me, kicking the field goal there is no worse than trying to run Portis into a sea of white. Either way, half the time you are going to come away with nothing, and give Dallas the ball in good field position. In the event that the run is successful, you have guarenteed your team absoultely nothing but a shorter field goal attempt.

The right call in my opinion would have been a play action pass. Even against the run heavy defense, you are still only about half likely to complete the first down. However, the success is likely going to give or set you up for a touchdown.

Punting there is a worse decision than kicking the FG. Football statisticians seem to agree that 20 yards of field position against an average offense with an average defense is roughly equal to one point on the scoreboard. Dallas certainly has a better than average offense, and our defense was a lot worse than average on that day, so the value of a punt is even lower than that. A field goal attempt that the kicker will only hit half the time has a value of 1.5 points. That's not going to make a big difference in the course of the game, though, but Gibbs made a pretty decent call, I thought. Go for the points.

Point is, you can defend Gibbs' call in that situation statistically.

Re: 2 Qualms with the loss
 

[quote=SmootSmack;380628]I know I'm in way way in the minority here but I don't think going for a field goal is such a disastrous decision. Personally I think I would have punted (heck maybe fake punted!). But Suisham is a key part of our team and there will be times that he will need to hit a 50+ yarder and come through for us. Gibbs took a chance on him making the kick yesterday. He didn't but I'm glad he's showing confidence in him and taking chances on him.[/quote]

More importantly Gibbs needs to show confidence in his offense to get a yard.

Re: 2 Qualms with the loss
 

[quote=GTripp0012;380635]I don't personally think it was the [I]right[/I] decision, but there certainly is a lot of logic behind it.

Simply put, we have an awful short yardage running game. So if you are going for it on 4th and 1, you either have to run at about 50-50 odds, or you have to take advantage of the run heavy defense, and pass.

To me, kicking the field goal there is no worse than trying to run Portis into a sea of white. Either way, half the time you are going to come away with nothing, and give Dallas the ball in good field position. In the event that the run is successful, you have guarenteed your team absoultely nothing but a shorter field goal attempt.

The right call in my opinion would have been a play action pass. Even against the run heavy defense, you are still only about half likely to complete the first down. However, the success is likely going to give or set you up for a touchdown.

Punting there is a worse decision than kicking the FG. Football statisticians seem to agree that 20 yards of field position against an average offense with an average defense is roughly equal to one point on the scoreboard. Dallas certainly has a better than average offense, and our defense was a lot worse than average on that day, so the value of a punt is even lower than that. A field goal attempt that the kicker will only hit half the time has a value of 1.5 points. That's not going to make a big difference in the course of the game, though, but Gibbs made a pretty decent call, I thought. Go for the points.

Point is, you can defend Gibbs' call in that situation statistically.[/quote]

What about knowing the situation of the game?? This is where Gibbs failed. He's on the road w/ a banged up team. Missing two starters in the secondary. You know Dallas is going to score points. The score is 7-0 and you have a chance to go up 14-0 if you convert one yard. He's gotta know that kicking FG's is just not going to get it done against Dallas. In this type of situation he's got to be thinking 7 instead of 3.

Re: 2 Qualms with the loss
 

Playing devil's advocate...

Fourth and one, and the Skins don't convert. Not only do you not have the ball, but you never got the chance at points. At least with a field goal attempt, you are trying to put points on the board. He thought points instead of no points...

Re: 2 Qualms with the loss
 

[quote=skinsfan69;380521]
Where we screwed up is not going for it on the 4th downs. Gibbs had to know that FG's were not going to get it done against Dallas. Especially the 50 yarder. That was just plain stupid.[/quote]Yet if Suisham makes that 50 yarder, the last drive would be totally different since a FG would win it. Suisham makes that FG and we all are saying Gibbs is a genius. Very easy to 2nd guess after it is all over.

Re: 2 Qualms with the loss
 

[quote=TheBigD;380842]Yet if Suisham makes that 50 yarder, the last drive would be totally different since a FG would win it. Suisham makes that FG and we all are saying Gibbs is a genius. Very easy to 2nd guess after it is all over.[/quote]
what words of wisdom from a cowboys fan. i totally agree. its really easy to play monday morning qback, isnt it?

Re: 2 Qualms with the loss
 

[QUOTE=BDBohnzie;380794]Playing devil's advocate...

Fourth and one, and the Skins don't convert. Not only do you not have the ball, but you never got the chance at points. At least with a field goal attempt, you are trying to put points on the board. He thought points instead of no points...[/QUOTE]

Problem there is, Suisham has never been known to be an 'automatic' kicker from long distances.

You also lose yardage since the opponent takes over from the spot of the kick rather than where the play is stopped. So you're talking about 7-10 yards right there.

If we had Chip Lohmiller in his prime trying one from 50 yards, I'd agree. Lohmiller was always money in Texas Stadium. Bottom line for me is, Gibbs has been awfully timid on 4th and 1 this season.

Re: 2 Qualms with the loss
 

[QUOTE=TheBigD;380842]Yet if Suisham makes that 50 yarder, the last drive would be totally different since a FG would win it. Suisham makes that FG and we all are saying Gibbs is a genius. Very easy to 2nd guess after it is all over.[/QUOTE]

Very true. Hindsight's always 20/20.

Re: 2 Qualms with the loss
 

I disagreed with the decision to kick a FG, but it certainly wasn't unreasonable. Suisham was on a roll prior to that missed FG attempt, we were leading the Cowboys by a TD, it was early in the game, Dallas had been stuffing the run, and the attempt was under 50 yards.

Re: 2 Qualms with the loss
 

Regarding Suisham, you have to bear in mind that Gibbs gets to watch him kick in warmups and that is perhaps a factor in that decision. He may have been drilling 50 yarders with ease for all we know.

Also, if you go for it and don't make it, the psychological blow to your offensive group is much greater than either not going for it or missing the kick. Something like that could have set the crowd off and gotten Dallas started a lot faster than what they did.

Re: 2 Qualms with the loss
 

[quote=TheBigD;380842]Yet if Suisham makes that 50 yarder, the last drive would be totally different since a FG would win it. Suisham makes that FG and we all are saying Gibbs is a genius. Very easy to 2nd guess after it is all over.[/quote]

Dude it's a freaking yard. If it was 4th and 6 or 7 then fine. Kick it. But 1 yard????? No way you kick it and risk giving the ball back on the 40. If the situation was reversed do you think Wade would kick it? No way in hell. Cause he has confidence in his guys and it shows.

Do you think Bill B. kicks it on 4th and 1 risking giving it back on the 40? No freakin way. He goes for it all the time. The guy is ruthless.

Again, Gibbs had to realize that Dallas was going to score TD's. Espeically with Taylor and Rogers out. He's on the road and a little outmaned. You can't go into Dallas, or TB with that type of attitude. It has cost us games this year. Also if you make it it breeds confidence in the offense. It gives the guys a little swagger and that is what this offense needs. Some confidence, arrogance and swagger. Dallas' offense sure has it. All of the guys on Dallas offense are so confident. You can just see it on the sidelines. Sorry but I didn't see that last year when Parcells was coaching. Alot of that comes from Wade and Garrett showing confidence in the players. Gibbs simply doesn't do this and it shows. I would bet any amount of $ if it was Al S. call we would have went for it.

Re: 2 Qualms with the loss
 

[quote=skinsfan69;381053]Dude it's a freaking yard. If it was 4th and 6 or 7 then fine. Kick it. But 1 yard????? No way you kick it and risk giving the ball back on the 40. If the situation was reversed do you think Wade would kick it? No way in hell. Cause he has confidence in his guys and it shows.

Do you think Bill B. kicks it on 4th and 1 risking giving it back on the 40? No freakin way. He goes for it all the time. The guy is ruthless. [/quote]
I am not sure what Wade or Bill B. would do in this situation, but I can tell you the fans wouldn't be happy if they didn't make it. Ok, so Gibbs doesn't kick and goes for it and doesn't make it, most fans would say what the heck man, PUNT it. Are all 4th and 1s gimmes?

I have been a fan and around fans long enough to know we are never happy when a play doesn't work and always seem to know better than the coaches on the sidelines. A good example is Dungy going for it on 4th and 1 inside the 10. If the team doesn't make it, everyone in America would call him stupid for not kicking the winning FG then. They made the first down and he is looking like a genius now.

There is a very fine line between being an idiot and a genious on all 4th and inches plays. It takes and idiot to go for it and the one who makes it is a genius.