Re: Fassel, Ryan and Zorn, oh my!
 

Greg Williams is going to be the DC for the 49s,as things stand now if the Giants lose Spags he will go to New York.

Re: Fassel, Ryan and Zorn, oh my!
 

[quote=GMScud;411631]I'll admit, I like the Zorn idea. A lot. He's spent the last 6-7 seasons helping develop Hasselbeck into one of the best QBs in the league. And I don't think anyone will argue that Campbell has more physical talent than Hasselbeck. Sucks that JC is gonna have to learn yet another new offense, but oh well.

[B]My main concern offensively is time frame. How long will it take for this offense to catch? Steve Young always says it takes 2 years to really learn a west coast offense. We've just spent two years waiting for JC to catch on to Saunders.[/B][/quote]Therein lies my biggest concern ditching Saunders. I've heard some say that it isn't until year 3 that a QB is comfortable with the complex reads of the WCO. I really feel for Campbell - he's going into his 4th season with his 3rd coordinator.

Re: Fassel, Ryan and Zorn, oh my!
 

[QUOTE=GMScud;411631]I'll admit, I like the Zorn idea. A lot. He's spent the last 6-7 seasons helping develop Hasselbeck into one of the best QBs in the league. And I don't think anyone will argue that Campbell has more physical talent than Hasselbeck. Sucks that JC is gonna have to learn yet another new offense, but oh well.

My main concern offensively is time frame. How long will it take for this offense to catch? Steve Young always says it takes 2 years to really learn a west coast offense. We've just spent two years waiting for JC to catch on to Saunders.[/QUOTE]

Hasn't Campbell already spent two years learning the west coast anyway? Senior year at Auburn, first year with the Redskins where Musgrave ran a modified wco?

Re: Fassel, Ryan and Zorn, oh my!
 

[QUOTE=Mc2guy;411626]Just to inject a little perspective in this sob-fest, Ryan and Zorn are high quality and highly sought after coaches. :soapbox:

Zorn has been the QB coach for Seattle since 2001 and has a great track record there with Hasselback. Seattle has been ranked 2, 13, and 9 in overall offense in the last 3 years, much better than the skins on average.

Ryan is loved by his players and has lead the Ravens to defensive rankings of 5, 1, and 5 over the last 3 years, also better than the almighty GW over that period.

Fassel is a WINNING coach, who has playoff experience and has lead a team to the Superbowl...how many coaches out there now have that resume other than Cowher, who isn't coming to town?

Now, do I believe this is the best coaching staff ever assembled, admittedly no, but it sure could be worse. I will prefer to focus on the positives here until proven otherwise. I suggest for your own sanity, you do the same.:)[/QUOTE]



Somehow, I knew that this forum of knowledgeable Redskins fans would somehow come up with the above!

The above is not knee jerk, but honest, deep research, followed by sound reasoning.

That my B&G friends, is what this site is all about!

Some of you need to slow down and wait for the sky to not fall!

Re: Fassel, Ryan and Zorn, oh my!
 

[quote=SmootSmack;411638]Hasn't Campbell already spent two years learning the west coast anyway? Senior year at Auburn, first year with the Redskins where Musgrave ran a modified wco?[/quote]

Good point. I thought of his senior yr at Auburn, but I forgot about Musgrave...

Zorn may be the best hire of this group. I really like Rex Ryan, but if Baltimore wants a high draft pick as compensation, I like him a lot less.

Re: Fassel, Ryan and Zorn, oh my!
 

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;411638]Hasn't Campbell already spent two years learning the west coast anyway? Senior year at Auburn, first year with the Redskins where Musgrave ran a modified wco?[/QUOTE]

He was also very successful at Auburn when they ran the WCO.

Re: Fassel, Ryan and Zorn, oh my!
 

If Snyder is going another direction than GW, I'm surprised Ron Rivera didn't get a look as DC, especially with us having to give up compensation for Ryan.

Re: Fassel, Ryan and Zorn, oh my!
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;411652]If Snyder is going another direction than GW, I'm surprised Ron Rivera didn't get a look as DC, especially with us having to give up compensation for Ryan.[/quote]

Oh shit, I forgot about Ron Rivera. Good call. He was a head coaching candidate last offseason after what he did with that Bears D. He's the LB coach in San Diego right now, so D. coordinator for us would be a promotion and not require compensation. Hmmmm....

Re: Fassel, Ryan and Zorn, oh my!
 

I don't quite get the thing with the Raisins--are they keeping Ryan? Didn't they just gut their coaching staff? Can't we just just call him the Vice-assistant head coach, defense, or something, and sign him as a move-up?

Never liked Fassel, but that may be due to my years in NYC when he was coaching the gints. The assistants sound good.

Biggest worry: killing chemistry of the team by kicking GW to the curb.
Worry 2: JC's learning a new system, but it can't be more complex than Al's fabled 700 pager.
Worry 3: Danny-boy took this route to maintain full meddling controls, and he got rid of GW because he wanted to run things like Gibbs.

It's a wait-and-see deal for me. Change is pretty much a constant in the NFL, so this shouldn't be that surprising. And the relationship between owner and coach has to be pretty solid, especially with a hands-on type like the Danny. If GW, who is not known for his flexibility in these things, had come in and had trouble, we'd be seeing this next season anyway, or maybe halfway through. Of course, now we'll never know if GW could have flourished here, and we may rue it when he lands elsewhere.

Once Gibbs stepped down, how many of you really thought this was going to be a mellow and predictable process?

Just friggin win! That cures all ills, pretty much.

Re: Fassel, Ryan and Zorn, oh my!
 

Fassel did give one of the best speeches back in Nov. of 2000 when he guaranteed the Giants were going to the playoffs (they went on to win the NFC Championship). The "pushing all my chips to the center of the table" speech.

It's in this article:
[url=http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9D00E3DB123AF930A15752C1A9669C8B63&sec=&spon=]FOOTBALL; Unpredictably, Fassel Foretells Playoffs for Giants - New York Times[/url]

Re: Fassel, Ryan and Zorn, oh my!
 

[QUOTE=skinsnut;411567]Are you saying that Snyder is a good owner?
Where am I wrong, fancy-pants?[/QUOTE]

Wow, fancy pants.. Took me a while to shake that one off..

No, I don't consider Snyder a good owner to be honest. I think he meddles too much, is still too impulsive and hasn't grasped the concept of director of football operations, GM, coach all being different people and being left alone to do their jobs.

My point is I don't see how this situation is Redskin Armageddon. So we have a new head coach from outside and 2 new coordinators. For the 3rd time in as many days, 3 playoff teams (Dallas, SD, Pittsburgh) had almost completely new head coaches & coordinators (Pitt. kept LeBeau as DC) and 2 of them won their divisions.

Continuity for the sake of continuity is overrated. We had the 15th ranked offense, 18th ranked scoring offense, I'm fine with an upgrade. I've been on record as supporting Saunders and I think if given full reign and freedom we would have seen a much more productive and explosive offense but I'm not ready to turn in my Redskins card because he won't be here next year.

Same with Williams. He did a solid job this year with the defense. I can't really ignore the 8 or so games the D lost when we had 2nd half leads, but I put that about 55-45 on the offense for not continuing to attack.

I know I'm in the vocal minority, but it seems a bit over the top the panic and mayhem sweeping thru Redskins nation. It's not like we're hiring Rich Kotite, Ray Handley or Dave Campo. By the way, those were all internal hires, strongly supported by the players and fan bases at the time. How'd that work out?

Re: Fassel, Ryan and Zorn, oh my!
 

My buddy just shot me a text saying G.Williams to Jacksonville as D.Coordinator... I'm sure it's a rumor at this point, but that would be a good move for him. They have some phenomenal personnel on that D. They'll be nasty with Gregg running them.

Re: Fassel, Ryan and Zorn, oh my!
 

[QUOTE=Paintrain;411666]Wow, fancy pants.. Took me a while to shake that one off..

No, I don't consider Snyder a good owner to be honest. I think he meddles too much, is still too impulsive and hasn't grasped the concept of director of football operations, GM, coach all being different people and being left alone to do their jobs.

My point is I don't see how this situation is Redskin Armageddon. So we have a new head coach from outside and 2 new coordinators. For the 3rd time in as many days, 3 playoff teams (Dallas, SD, Pittsburgh) had almost completely new head coaches & coordinators (Pitt. kept LeBeau as DC) and 2 of them won their divisions.

Continuity for the sake of continuity is overrated. We had the 15th ranked offense, 18th ranked scoring offense, I'm fine with an upgrade. I've been on record as supporting Saunders and I think if given full reign and freedom we would have seen a much more productive and explosive offense but I'm not ready to turn in my Redskins card because he won't be here next year.

Same with Williams. He did a solid job this year with the defense. I can't really ignore the 8 or so games the D lost when we had 2nd half leads, but I put that about 55-45 on the offense for not continuing to attack.

I know I'm in the vocal minority, but it seems a bit over the top the panic and mayhem sweeping thru Redskins nation. It's not like we're hiring Rich Kotite, Ray Handley or Dave Campo. By the way, those were all internal hires, strongly supported by the players and fan bases at the time. How'd that work out?[/QUOTE]

Richie Petitbon...

I'd comment on how I generally agree and you make good points on several issues above. But then someone will make the asinine comment that I just support everything that Snyder says and I don't really care about the team since I'm not going crazy over this.

Re: Fassel, Ryan and Zorn, oh my!
 

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;411670]Richie Petitbon...

I'd comment on how I generally agree and you make good points on several issues above. But then someone will make the asinine comment that I just support everything that Snyder says and I don't really care about the team since I'm not going crazy over this.[/QUOTE]
I was going to mention Richie but I didn't want to add to the Redskin on Redskin crime wave sweeping thru the Warpath..

Re: Fassel, Ryan and Zorn, oh my!
 

[quote=SmootSmack;411670]Richie Petitbon...

I'd comment on how I generally agree and you make good points on several issues above. But then someone will make the asinine comment that I just support everything that Snyder says and I don't really care about the team since I'm not going crazy over this.[/quote]

Yeah, my initial reaction was a resounding WTF?? But I'm more and more okay with this by the minute. I'm reading everything I can find on Fassel, Zorn, and Ryan. Not totally sold on Fassel (is anyone other than Danny?), but Ryan and Zorn are great hires.

Re: Fassel, Ryan and Zorn, oh my!
 

What a effen joke! Would someone please bye this franchise from the worst owner in sports

Re: Fassel, Ryan and Zorn, oh my!
 

[QUOTE=rskinz;411677]What a effen joke! Would someone please bye this franchise from the worst owner in sports[/QUOTE]

Way to add to the site

Re: Fassel, Ryan and Zorn, oh my!
 

Oh my...if this is the case then we are in a heap of...

We would be better off to hire a regular joe off the street and we would get the same result as we would hiring Fassel. Fassel sucks and Snyder should make himself coach since that would be the only thing to make him ultimately happy.

Re: Fassel, Ryan and Zorn, oh my!
 

The exact opposite of what everyone thinks you should do! Danny boy I sure hope you know what the hell you're doing!!!

Re: Fassel, Ryan and Zorn, oh my!
 

[quote=SmootSmack;411678]Way to add to the site[/quote]

There you go, defending Snyder again....:laughing-

Re: Fassel, Ryan and Zorn, oh my!
 

[quote=Paintrain;411553]Logic and common sense in the face of chaos and anarchy? Puh-leeze..[/quote]


That is going to be my next sig if I can use it

Re: Fassel, Ryan and Zorn, oh my!
 

[quote=SmootSmack;411551]A lot of coaches were going to be leaving regardless...but y'all don't want to hear that anyway.[/quote]

How do you know? What if Snyder gave the job to Williams? Was he going to fire the whole offensive staff? I doubt it.

Re: Fassel, Ryan and Zorn, oh my!
 

I know the Ravens went back to a 3-4 this season but if we get Rex Ryan will we switch to a 3-4 defense.

Re: Fassel, Ryan and Zorn, oh my!
 

[quote=EARTHQUAKE2689;411697]I know the Ravens went back to a 3-4 this season but if we get Rex Ryan will we switch to a 3-4 defense.[/quote]

We don't have 3-4 personel. Bad move. Real bad move.

Re: Fassel, Ryan and Zorn, oh my!
 

Synder is what happens when a fan controls an NFL team (as opposed to someone who REALLY knows the game.)

Re: Fassel, Ryan and Zorn, oh my!
 

If we are searching for a silver lining in this turnover of staff do you all think that if we were to hire Ryan do you think that gives us an inside track to get Terrell Suggs? This would obviously help the conversion to a 3-4 scheme and could be a reality if the Ravens defensive players love playing for him sooo much as previously indicated. Of course he seems like he will be looking for a big payday but if we give up a lower round pick to get Ryan and then sign Suggs for a reasonable contract would that be worth it?

Re: Fassel, Ryan and Zorn, oh my!
 

SNYDER does not get my vote! I am dissappointed.....

Re: Fassel, Ryan and Zorn, oh my!
 

[QUOTE=Wanga Skins;411702]If we are searching for a silver lining in this turnover of staff do you all think that if we were to hire Ryan [B]do you think that gives us an inside track to get Terrell Suggs?[/B] This would obviously help the conversion to a 3-4 scheme and could be a reality if the Ravens defensive players love playing for him sooo much as previously indicated. Of course he seems like he will be looking for a big payday but if we give up a lower round pick to get Ryan and then sign Suggs for a reasonable contract would that be worth it?[/QUOTE]

We are currently 20 million over the cap, so it will not matter if we have an inside track if we cant pay the guy.

Re: Fassel, Ryan and Zorn, oh my!
 

[QUOTE=EARTHQUAKE2689;411694]That is going to be my next sig if I can use it[/QUOTE]
Feel free!

Re: Fassel, Ryan and Zorn, oh my!
 

Would be easier to trade D coaches with Fisher and make himhappy like when Williams took them to super bowl

[QUOTE=skinsfan69;411698]We don't have 3-4 personel. Bad move. Real bad move.[/QUOTE]

Re: Fassel, Ryan and Zorn, oh my!
 

Someone please...Kill me now. I REALLY dont wanna see this happen. The Redskins could become the new '07 Dolphins next year if this all goes the way I think it will. Everything good that we've built through schemes and coaching and the consistency (what little bit we've had!) will be destoyed. Why? Because Danny plays too much F-ing Franchise Mode on Madden, that's why.

God save us all. I would rather die of a heartattack than watch my Skins flounder like fish outta water next year.

Re: Fassel, Ryan and Zorn, oh my!
 

The Post is putting this out as pretty much a sure thing (see [url=http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/01/23/AR2008012302806.html]washingtonpost.com[/url])
Well friends, this goes to show that JG has nothing to do with this organization now and no input in the process. Would he ever have suggested: "go ahead, blow up all of my work over the last few weeks"? I have a hard time believing that. Someone please educate me.

Re: Fassel, Ryan and Zorn, oh my!
 

[quote=redwagonskins;411720]The Post is putting this out as pretty much a sure thing (see [url=http://washingtonpost.com]washingtonpost.com - nation, world, technology and Washington area news and headlines[/url])
[B] Well friends, this goes to show that JG has nothing to do with this organization now and no input in the process[/B]. Would he ever have suggested: "go ahead, blow up all of my work over the last few weeks"? I have a hard time believing that. Someone please educate me.[/quote]

Exactly.

Re: Fassel, Ryan and Zorn, oh my!
 

So long as no draft pick compensation exchanges hands for Rex Ryan then I can live with these moves. I must say, however, that I rather like the suggestion in JLC's latest blog whereby Ryan would stay in B'More, Jim Schwartz would come to DC as DC, and Gregg Williams would go back to Tennessee and work with Jeff Fischer. Probably not going to happen, but it would just put a real 'A-Team' kind of ending on this whole deal (and I really like Jim Schwartz for some reason ... plus he's an Econ major from Georgetown, come on, what's not to love). In a strange way, bringing Schwartz in would also give a measure of continuity since he came up under Gregg in Nashville.

Re: Fassel, Ryan and Zorn, oh my!
 

Smootsmack:

Be sure you are sitting down and have a glass of water nearby. I'm going to say something nice about Danny Boy.

While I do not think Jim Fassel is on the fast track to have his bust cast for enshrinement at Canton, he's a better than average NFL coach. If he comes in and blows up that 20-man coaching staff that was out there last year, he'd almost have to improve the situation. There were way too many coaches with way too many "areas of authorith" and way too many "lines of command". Some of the coaches held their jobs only because they traced their coaching lineage back to "Gibbs First Era". Keep an eye open to see just how many of those guys get multiple offers from the other NFL teams such that they can bid up their new contracts. With Gibbs here, even Danny Boy couldn't clean out that mess without indicating clearly that his boyhood idol had really screwed the pooch here.

Gregg Williams is a better than average defensive coordinator. His track record as a head coach is not good at all; he lost about two games for every game he won. He did not finish out his contract; the Bills let him walk and take money with him. Maybe some day he'll be a head coach and succeed; maybe he's one of those guys who is a really good ccordinator and not a good head coach. Should Danny Boy take a chance? Why? He has other options.

Jim Zorn was a successful coach in Seattle and was a damned good QB in his own right in the NFL. I don't see where losing Al Saunders is such a big deal. If a guy has a 700-page playbook and can't teach it to players a bit at a time so that they have a cohesive offense while they are learning the whole package, then he's not such a great teacher. Danny Boy saw a chance to get someone here who has had offensive coaching experience AND offensive playing experience and it looks as if he's going to land him. Unless Jim Zorn is a complete dolt and/or a psycho who can't get along with anyone here, this is a very reasoned move.

About all those players who "endorsed" Gregg Williams... That's called "front-running". He was the leader in the race and they all decided it would be a good idea to make nice with the guy who looked as if he would be the big boss next year. Listen to those same players if any other coach is named as the HC. They won't say the new guy is a dumb-ass and or that they don't know how the team can possibly win more than 3 games next year; they'll say they are ready to bust their ass for the new guy. These players may not be MENSA members, but they do know who makes the decisions as to whether or not they stay on this team.

Danny Boy dragged this whole thing out and got lots of publicity while doing it. If the final line-up is Fassel and Zorn and "someone else", that deal could have been done a week ago. Neither Fassel nor Zorn has been jetting all over the country juggling 20 different interviews for jobs. I've said that Danny Boy would want this coaching search to provide him with face time on TV and publicity; he made that happen. And in the end, he made a couple of reasonable decisions. How they work out will depend just as much on his decision to give Vinnie C. an unfettered hand in the football operations world as it does on the coaching staff.

Oh, and by the way, when Richie Kotite was hired by the Eagles it was an internal promotion. When he was hired by the Jets, he was an outsider.

Re: Fassel, Ryan and Zorn, oh my!
 

1-15 here we come. If the giants fired Fassel and the Ravens fired Fassel what good could he possibly do here?? We might as well hire Jimmy Johnson and Andy Ried. Any other rival coaches we can hire?

Re: Fassel, Ryan and Zorn, oh my!
 

[QUOTE=redwagonskins;411720]The Post is putting this out as pretty much a sure thing (see [url=http://washingtonpost.com]washingtonpost.com - nation, world, technology and Washington area news and headlines[/url])
Well friends, this goes to show that JG has nothing to do with this organization now and no input in the process. Would he ever have suggested: "go ahead, blow up all of my work over the last few weeks"? I have a hard time believing that. Someone please educate me.[/QUOTE]

I am starting to think that Gibbs knew that Williams was not going to get the job all along. Maybe this is why Gibbs left when he did.Maybe he knew this coaching staff wasnt going to work and didnt want to stick around to rebuild a new one knowing he wouldnt be around the next year.It is all just speculation seeing as how none of us work in the skins front office.

Re: Fassel, Ryan and Zorn, oh my!
 

I'm so depressed!!!! this can't be worse than the Spurrier years though, right? And i just convinced my eigth year old that the Redskins are worth rooting for.

Re: Fassel, Ryan and Zorn, oh my!
 

[QUOTE=love them hogs;411727]I am starting to think that Gibbs knew that Williams was not going to get the job all along. Maybe this is why Gibbs left when he did.Maybe he knew this coaching staff wasnt going to work and didnt want to stick around to rebuild a new one knowing he wouldnt be around the next year.It is all just speculation seeing as how none of us work in the skins front office.[/QUOTE]

Man, I hope not. I think JG 2.0 had some issues but I don't think he'd sell out his own people.

Re: Fassel, Ryan and Zorn, oh my!
 

[QUOTE=rstone1979;411726]1-15 here we come. If the giants fired Fassel and the Ravens fired Fassel what good could he possibly do here?? We might as well hire Jimmy Johnson and Andy Ried. Any other rival coaches we can hire?[/QUOTE]

New York and Baltimore backwash... GREAT!! Thanks Dan