Re: Rock gets new deal with Skins (3 yrs, $3.35M)
 

We got him way cheaper than his value suggests.

On a somewhat related note, the fact that the team has not made an effort to prorate Ladell Betts' roster bonus this year, it makes me think that the team may be looking to add a RB in the mid-late rounds this year and part ways with Betts after the year. Stuff like that tends to happen with players that the new HC is lukewarm on coming in, they get a one year tryout, and then a decision is made on their future.

Re: Rock gets new deal with Skins (3 yrs, $3.35M)
 

I would love Hall for a second round pick. Springs and Hall starting this year. Hall and Rogers the following with Smoot playing alot as well. That would be a very strong suit on this team.
Imagine nickel with Landry deep, Springs playing the other safety, Hall and Rogers on the outside with Smoot in the slot. No that is one heck of a nickel package. (i'm not sure who would be in the slot but the chance to move Springs to safety for a few packages seems like a great move to me)

Re: Rock gets new deal with Skins (3 yrs, $3.35M)
 

Thus far, I'm VERY pleased with the front office. Whether you think it's lack of cap space or whatever, it's great.

Re: Rock gets new deal with Skins (3 yrs, $3.35M)
 

This is great news for Rock and the Redskins. The FO seems to be living up to their previous statement that they would be relatively quiet during the FA period. While I wish that Rock had gotten a few more bucks for his service and apparent leadership over the years, I guess we should be happy that the 'Skins orginization didn't overspend to re-sign Rock. Hopefully he will be able to rake in a few more dollars over time via incentives, etc. Welcome back Rock!

Re: Rock gets new deal with Skins (3 yrs, $3.35M)
 

Glad to hear the Redskins re-signed Rock.

Re: Rock gets new deal with Skins (3 yrs, $3.35M)
 

Glad to hear Rock will remain with the Skins. He provides a great KR specialist, #3 RB depth & nice special teamer.

The Front Office should be commended.

Re: Rock gets new deal with Skins (3 yrs, $3.35M)
 

Why does everyone keep saying Deangelo Hall is a locker room cancer? I've never heard of him doing anything

Re: Rock gets new deal with Skins (3 yrs, $3.35M)
 

This is Peter King's take on Hall:

[quote]I'm warning you about DeAngelo Hall, Giants. And I'm warning you other suitors: Don't overpay for this man. A good beat guy on the Giants, Mike Garofolo of the Newark Star-Ledger, reports New York is considering trading its first-round pick, 31st overall, for Hall, who wants out of Atlanta so bad he'd walk to East Rutherford.

I can say two good things about Hall: He's a cornerback with guts, and he's only 24 years old. [B]But coaches and some former teammates who've been around him think he's an immature risk-taker and not a team guy; I saw him throw some cheap shots in a training-camp brawl two years ago[/B].

In my informal canvassing of personnel people over the last three days, I've gotten some incredulous looks about the report that the Giants might deal a low first-rounder for Hall. The reaction: Tom Coughlin would be playing with fire. Playing with fire is worth it for, say, a low third-rounder. But with the startling success of the G-men last year in the draft -- they drafted eight players, and all not only made the team, but also were active for at least one playoff game in New York's Super Bowl run -- it's much smarter to let your personnel staff find a good-citizen corner with a bright upside.

[B]That would be miles better than to trade for a wiseacre who last year reamed out his head coach on the sideline after taking multiple personal-foul penalties against Carolina.[/B] I think Atlanta GM Thomas Dimitroff would be doing well to get a third-rounder for Hall, whose exit is a must for new coach Mike Smith to start fresh with a good locker room.[/quote]

Re: Rock gets new deal with Skins (3 yrs, $3.35M)
 

I'm glad Rock realized he wasn't quit worth what he was looking for in the FA market, and accepted a fair deal from the Skins. I think he is a valued player to our team, and I'm very pleased he will remain a Redskin.

But I agree with Diehard777, you have to commend the FO, they put a fair offer on the table take it or leave it. We have to stop over paying for players. I like our new approach in the FA market, so far......

[url=http://www.redskins.com/news/newsDetail.jsp?id=34780]Cartwright Agrees to Terms[/url]

Side note: As far as DeAngelo Hall really good corner, but I think most here witnessed the guy has serious problems. We have by all accounts cleaned most if not all the cancer out of are locker room with the firing of Lloyd the waste. IMO hes not worth the risk he would bring to our club.

Re: Rock gets new deal with Skins (3 yrs, $3.35M)
 

Glad to hear Rock will be back... with all these re-signing I think I'm going to buy some jerseys. I usually cannot afford Redskins jerseys because players come and go so much (i.e. I have a Patrick Ramsey, a Kevin Lockett, and a Lavereous Coles...). by the looks of how things are going, I can buy new ones and keep wearing them for a few more years!!!

Re: Rock gets new deal with Skins (3 yrs, $3.35M)
 

31 other teams wouldnt even take a sniff at this guy and the skins give him $3 mil. They should not have given him any increase. Once again over paying for too little talent.

Re: Rock gets new deal with Skins (3 yrs, $3.35M)
 

[quote=irish;430523]31 other teams wouldnt even take a sniff at this guy and the skins give him $3 mil. They should not have given him any increase. Once again over paying for too little talent.[/quote]
Are you sure your a Skins fan?

Re: Rock gets new deal with Skins (3 yrs, $3.35M)
 

[quote=firstdown;430533]Are you sure your a Skins fan?[/quote]

Thats a good question.

The guy is playing for vet minimum and a 300k signing bonus this season almost same deal next year. For a player thats Top 7 in overall returns, Top 6 in overall return yardage, yards/kick return 25.8 Top 9 in the entire league, in his specialty KR. Also great teamer and solid depth at #3 RB position and locker room leader. What do you expect the guy to play for free?

[URL="http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2007/leaders.htm"]2007 NFL Leaders and Leaderboards - Pro-Football-Reference.com[/URL]

The third contract year who knows if Rock makes it that far but if he does he damn sure will have earned the 1.5 mil to say the least.

Come on irish thats just not a very well thought out post IMO. Do you really believe for 1 second after looking at the contract terms they overpaid for Rock?

"Under the terms of his new deal, Cartwright, a six-year veteran, will receive a $300,000 signing bonus with a base salary of $605,000 in 2008 -- the minimum for a player with six years in the league. He will receive a $200,000 roster bonus and a $745,000 salary in 2009 and a $1.5 million salary in 2010."

Re: Rock gets new deal with Skins (3 yrs, $3.35M)
 

[QUOTE=irish;430523]31 other teams wouldnt even take a sniff at this guy and the skins give him $3 mil. They should not have given him any increase. Once again over paying for too little talent.[/QUOTE]

Of which 500K is guarranteed and half of the 3M is a 1.5M salary in the third year of the contract that he will not likely ever see.

So the Skins lock up a team leader, special teams demon and solid 3rd back for two years at slightly over vet minimum.

But you're right - we way over payed. Wouldn't want the players thinking that playing well for us would get them a little home town bonus (Of course, we should expect them to give us the home town discount).

Re: Rock gets new deal with Skins (3 yrs, $3.35M)
 

[QUOTE=irish;430523]31 other teams wouldnt even take a sniff at this guy and the skins give him $3 mil. They should not have given him any increase. Once again over paying for too little talent.[/QUOTE]

too little talent? well, he is talented in more ways than he is appreciated for. There is no player who works harder on special teams and is a team leader. This is what the Skins lack. Without veteran retention, a team will implode. Thats whats wrong with the Cowboys. Their lead vet is T.O., hardly a good leader. And name for me a team leader on the Falcons, Vikings, Lions, or Raiders. they have respected talent on each team, but there is no presence of team leadership. Another example, the Green Bay Packers. They were the "youngest" team in the NFL last year. With Favre, Woodsen, and Harris; three proven, hard playing veterans, that team went to the NFC championship. Resigning Rock was genius and we are lucky to only have paid $3 mil for the heart, hard work ehtics, and leadership he will continue to bring to our team.

Re: Rock gets new deal with Skins (3 yrs, $3.35M)
 

With a salary that................flush? He will need to get O.T.

Re: Rock gets new deal with Skins (3 yrs, $3.35M)
 

I love having Rock he's been one of my favorites for awhile,
I always try to develope him into a starting rb in madden cause I like him so much haha

Re: Rock gets new deal with Skins (3 yrs, $3.35M)
 

[QUOTE=JoeRedskin;430539]Of which 500K is guarranteed and half of the 3M is a 1.5M salary in the third year of the contract that he will not likely ever see.

So the Skins lock up a team leader, special teams demon and solid 3rd back for two years at slightly over vet minimum.

But you're right - we way over payed. Wouldn't want the players thinking that playing well for us would get them a little home town bonus (Of course, we should expect them to give us the home town discount).[/QUOTE]

Playing well? What exactly has he done thats so great? 31 other teams looked at him and didnt think he was such a special teams demon. I dont ever expect a player to give a discount (their career is too short as it is) but Rock had absolutely zero interest shown in him. He should be glad he's on a team let alone getting a $3 mil contract.

Re: Rock gets new deal with Skins (3 yrs, $3.35M)
 

I like this deal for Rock. I think it is very cap friendly to a solid player who is a team leader.

Re: Rock gets new deal with Skins (3 yrs, $3.35M)
 

[QUOTE=PFunk26;430566]I love having Rock he's been one of my favorites for awhile,
I always try to develope him into a starting rb in madden cause I like him so much haha[/QUOTE]


I moved him to fullback and split him out at WR on some plays, and on others used him as a dump-off when my WR's were covered well. his solid, low bulk allows for good blocking, and his speed is great for long yardage. Recently I moved him to #2 TE behind Cooley. His quickness allows a good outlet when being poorly covered by a LB, and again his size allows for weakside blocking on running plays.

Re: Rock gets new deal with Skins (3 yrs, $3.35M)
 

[QUOTE=irish;430567]Playing well? What exactly has he done thats so great? 31 other teams looked at him and didnt think he was such a special teams demon. I dont ever expect a player to give a discount (their career is too short as it is) but [B]Rock had absolutely zero interest shown in him[/B]. He should be glad he's on a team let alone getting a $3 mil contract.[/QUOTE]

Did I say "played like a superstar"? Did I say "played great"? No, I said played well.

Here are his stats. [url=http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/C/CartRo01.htm]Rock Cartwright Statistics - Pro-Football-Reference.com[/url]

In 2007, he was 15th in the league in Kick Returns
In 2006, he was 11th

In 2005, he had a 7.4 average per carry as the teams 3rd back, including a 100 yard game against St. Louis during the playoff run.

In 2007, he had 2nd on ST tackles.
In 2006, he was 5th on ST tackles and had a blocked punt.
In 2005, he was 3rd on ST tackles

He's a solid player and got a slightly better then vet min deal. If continuity means nothing to you, fine - IMHO, that is worth a little extra, particularly when you're talking about a player who is continually refered to as a team leader. And, even if you don't remember hearing his name called on a fairly regular basis for ST tackles, I certainly do.

Also, how do you know he had "zero interest"? It was reported that he was disappointed with the response - but, just b/c he was disappointed, it does not mean that there weren't calls or offers. If you got the inside dope, please share. If he got several vet min offers, are you saying we shouldn't have bumped it up a little to keep him?

Is he anything special? No, not really. Did he get a contract that was special? No, not really. You want to pinch pennies on an acknowledged team leader? Fine, but then you better not expect much leadership.

Aren't you the same guy that said this FO will never learn? That Gibbs taught them nothing?? This signing demonstrates the error of both assertions. (Note: I used the word "demonstrates" not "proves", only time will do that).

Your critique reeks of criticism for criticism's sake. Bottom line, b/c they don't have a GM, you will criticize just about any move this organization makes.

Re: Rock gets new deal with Skins (3 yrs, $3.35M)
 

If there is one thing the skins arent its penny pinchers. Of course all that largesse has got them nothing except over paid, underperforming players.

They could have let Rock go and had a draft pick play almost as good for a lot less money. I am not in the locker room to know how much of a leader Rock is but I just cant fathom that a middling special teams player is a leader of consequence.

Your support of Rock reeks of supporting a player only because he is current a Skin. If he was signed from another team I doubt you'd be so supportive of the move.

Re: Rock gets new deal with Skins (3 yrs, $3.35M)
 

Please tell me again, with something other than your opinion, how you can prove he was overpaid. What offers did he receive, from whom, when and what were the terms?

I know what the Skins paid for him and their terms. He gets ~200K over vet min this year and ~400 over vet min next year. Not exactly killer numbers. Does part of my support come b/c he is a current Skin? Yup. But B Lloyd was a current Skin - I am glad they cut him. Does a player from another team get the same pay as home grown player? Nope. Shouldn't. And if you don't realize leadership on a sports team can grow outside the limelight, well that speaks volumes.

Re: Rock gets new deal with Skins (3 yrs, $3.35M)
 

"True Redskins". Glad to have him back, and I don't hold it against him for testing the market before re-signing with us. Money's out there, why sit back and watch everyone else get paid?

Re: Rock gets new deal with Skins (3 yrs, $3.35M)
 

[QUOTE=JoeRedskin;430584]Please tell me again, with something other than your opinion, how you can prove he was overpaid. What offers did he receive, from whom, when and what were the terms?

I know what the Skins paid for him and their terms. He gets ~200K over vet min this year and ~400 over vet min next year. Not exactly killer numbers. Does part of my support come b/c he is a current Skin? Yup. But B Lloyd was a current Skin - I am glad they cut him. Does a player from another team get the same pay as home grown player? Nope. Shouldn't. And if you don't realize leadership on a sports team can grow outside the limelight, well that speaks volumes.[/QUOTE]

I think you probably should just ignore irish. I would do it myself if my mod obligations didn't prevent me from doing so. He made a big stink last year about how we care more about signing other free agents than keeping our own players. When I mentioned re-signing guys like Betts and Sellers I believe he said that wasn't enough. So now we've re-signed Rock for much less than he was hoping for and it still's not enough. If I remember right, he also questioned why Schneed would think Portis would restructure...and of course he did.

So bottom line, irish can preach all his "I'm a realist" bs but that's all it is, bs. Being "real" is recognizing positive change, it's not all about the negative. He's just very negative about the Redskins, and probably about many other things in life.

Now...as for re-signing Rock. Good. I didn't think it would happen so soon because I thought they should take care of other things (since he wasn't [u]highly[/u] sought after) before re-signing Rock. But they got it done now and at a decent price, so there's nothing to really whine about.

Re: Rock gets new deal with Skins (3 yrs, $3.35M)
 

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;430710]I think you probably should just ignore irish. I would do it myself if my mod obligations didn't prevent me from doing so. He made a big stink last year about how we care more about signing other free agents than keeping our own players. When I mentioned re-signing guys like Betts and Sellers I believe he said that wasn't enough. So now we've re-signed Rock for much less than he was hoping for and it still's not enough. If I remember right, he also questioned why Schneed would think Portis would restructure...and of course he did.

So bottom line, irish can preach all his "I'm a realist" bs but that's all it is, bs. Being "real" is recognizing positive change, it's not all about the negative. He's just very negative about the Redskins, and probably about many other things in life.

Now...as for re-signing Rock. Good. I didn't think it would happen so soon because I thought they should take care of other things (since he wasn't [u]highly[/u] sought after) before re-signing Rock. But they got it done now and at a decent price, so there's nothing to really whine about.[/QUOTE]


As to Irish, I agree. The critique of this move falls into so much of a past pattern that I really should've just let it go. I just don't appreciate the intellectual dishonesty it displayed and felt like a response was appropriate. Sometimes BS needs to be pointed out for what it is.

As to Rock, was there any interest out for him at all? I would imagine that he had a few vet min plus offers. Maybe I am just looking at it through burgundy and gold glasses, but I thought he would generate [I]some [/I]interest as a back up and KR.

Re: Rock gets new deal with Skins (3 yrs, $3.35M)
 

[QUOTE=JoeRedskin;430720]As to Irish, I agree. The critique of this move falls into so much of a past pattern that I really should've just let it go. I just don't appreciate the intellectual dishonesty it displayed and felt like a response was appropriate. Sometimes BS needs to be pointed out for what it is.

As to Rock, was there any interest out for him at all? I would imagine that he had a few vet min plus offers. Maybe I am just looking at it through burgundy and gold glasses, but I thought he would generate [I]some [/I]interest as a back up and KR.[/QUOTE]

I think there was a little cursory interest, but nothing all that major.

Re: Rock gets new deal with Skins (3 yrs, $3.35M)
 

The Rock IS important.
Anyone who has participated, coached, or observed team sports is keenly aware of the players who are positive leaders. Teams cannot succeed without role players, strong locker room guys who help to maintain the cohesion in "team". Rock is one of those guys.
The Skins know all to well the folly in trying to insert hightly paid (non-team) guys (that did not fit) to short road our success. Obviously it did not work.
Teams.........must be..............TEAMS, to be successful. The Rock and others like him help that process.
Good signing!

Re: Rock gets new deal with Skins (3 yrs, $3.35M)
 

[quote=Hog1;430752]The Rock IS important.
Anyone who has participated, coached, or observed team sports is keenly aware of the players who are positive leaders. Teams cannot succeed without role players, strong locker room guys who help to maintain the cohesion in "team". Rock is one of those guys.
The Skins know all to well the folly in trying to insert hightly paid (non-team) guys (that did not fit) to short road our success. Obviously it did not work.
Teams.........must be..............TEAMS, to be successful. The Rock and others like him help that process.
Good signing![/quote]

Wait a second. So you're trying to tell me, that depisite what irish said, you don't have to be a superstar athlete/Pro Bowler to be a leader? My head is spinning. I thought only guys that caught 100 balls or had elite athletic skills could act in any leadership capacity. You know, guys like Terrell Owens and Mike Vick, those superstar guys thats where your leaders are. Some marginal special teams guy, HA, you've got to be joking.

Re: Rock gets new deal with Skins (3 yrs, $3.35M)
 

Rocks the special guest on Redskin radio for lunch, talking about how happy he is to still be a Skin. And speaking on contract details and the team, coaching staff.

[URL="http://www.redskins.com/"]Washington Redskins[/URL]

Re: Rock gets new deal with Skins (3 yrs, $3.35M)
 

[QUOTE=irish;430581]If there is one thing the skins arent its penny pinchers. Of course all that largesse has got them nothing except over paid, underperforming players.

They could have let Rock go and had a draft pick play almost as good for a lot less money. I am not in the locker room to know how much of a leader Rock is but I just cant fathom that a middling special teams player is a leader of consequence.

Your support of Rock reeks of supporting a player only because he is current a Skin. If he was signed from another team I doubt you'd be so supportive of the move.[/QUOTE]

So you complain when we "overpay" other teams' free agents and fail to re-sign our own free agents. Then, we don't sign anyone else's free agents and re-sign our own free agents and still you whine? We re-sign Rock to a deal that essentially pays him the vet. minimum and gives him less than $1M in guaranteed money and yet he is overpaid? If Rock was signed by another team for the same money, I doubt you'd be applauding the F.O. allowing him to leave.

Re: Rock gets new deal with Skins (3 yrs, $3.35M)
 

[quote=SC Skins Fan;430756]Wait a second. So you're trying to tell me, that depisite what irish said, you don't have to be a superstar athlete/Pro Bowler to be a leader? My head is spinning. I thought only guys that caught 100 balls or had elite athletic skills could act in any leadership capacity. You know, guys like Terrell Owens and Mike Vick, those superstar guys thats where your leaders are. Some marginal special teams guy, HA, you've got to be joking.[/quote]

I must admit, I am a bit concerned, now that B. Lloyd has moved on.