Re: Kudos to Dan Snyder and Vinny Cerrato
 

[quote=SmootSmack;455362]"Almost" only counts in horseshoes, handgrenades, and Mike Alstott "touchdowns"

I don't know how "we all know" he was the best man for the job. That seems a bit hard to just know.

Campbell was just starting to learn Saunders' offense, that's not the same as "mastering" it. And if he in fact was close to "mastering" it then the WCO should take him less than half the time.

Sure, some may say the draft was questionable. But it seemed like you were pretty ok with Davis, and the small school pick in Rhinehart based on these

[URL]http://www.thewarpath.net/445135-post106.html[/URL]

[URL]http://www.thewarpath.net/445127-post103.html[/URL]

[URL]http://www.thewarpath.net/445113-post97.html[/URL]

[URL]http://www.thewarpath.net/445111-post96.html[/URL]

[URL]http://www.thewarpath.net/444893-post43.html[/URL]

[URL]http://www.thewarpath.net/445271-post135.html[/URL][/quote]

and if you read my post i'm not questioning anyone from small schools. i'm questioning why he was taken in the 3rd round when everyone else had him going in the 5th or 6th.

Re: Kudos to Dan Snyder and Vinny Cerrato
 

[quote=sportscurmudgeon;455299]Folks:

The Skins' FO [B]supposedl[/B]y chased CJ to the point where they [B]supposedly[/B] offered a really big price for him.

That's conjecture. Here's a fact:


That deal never happened. I would not have been happy with a deal of the kind that was widely reported but I don't have to get my knickers in a knot over it because - - It ... never ... happened.


By the way, the Skins' FO may also have considered moving training camp this year to the Xygork Nebula. That would have been a bad idea. But they didn't to that either...

Will the off-season restraint shown by Danny Boy and Vinnie Boombatz assure the Skins of a Super Bowl slot? Of course not.

But I like the idea that there are so many players showing up at the beginning of training camp who have shown that they can actually perform on the field at the level of an NFL playoff team.

If you want to look at this from a negative perspective, the new coaching staff can obviously f*ck this up with incompetence or irrationality. The Redskins COULD be 6-10 this year; and if they are, you can point the finger at the guys on the sideline and in the coaches' booth - - because the players have shown they can perform at a higher level that that.

The Skins can also go 4-12 this year if the football gods decide to heap injuries on the team and make the ball bounce away from the Skins all season long.

But as the team goes into training camp with everyone as healthy and fit as one can expect them to be at this point in the calendar, the Skins' FO has done well by the players on the team. They have a [U]legitmate [/U]shot at the playoffs and a [U]legitimate[/U] shot at playing in the NFC title game. This isn't "fanboy talk"; the Skins can make this happen with a relatively injury-free season and some breaks along the way. I do NOT think the Skins are the best team in the NFC, but they are one of the teams "in the mix" to make it deep into the playoffs where anything can happen.

Are the Skins my pick for the NFC rep to the Super Bowl as of July 2008? No, they are not. But they are closer to being in the Super Bowl than they are to having a pick in the top five of the draft in 2009...[/quote]
Good thread, good posts. Nice to see you coming around, you may have to change your screen-name :)

May I inerest you in a cool, refreshing beverage....possibly the K.A.? LOL

Re: Kudos to Dan Snyder and Vinny Cerrato
 

You know it's been an uneventful offseason for the Redskins when all people have to complain about is a move that wasn't even made. :doh:

Re: Kudos to Dan Snyder and Vinny Cerrato
 

[quote=redsk1;455316]I would put GW's bunch in the overachieving category in his years here. Look at our line, although some solid veterans, we plugged people in and they got the job done. The one year that our D didn't play as well, i heard an NFL scout on the radio say that our group has never been that talented and it just caught up to us...we'd maxed out our mediocre talent. The next year we were back in the top 10. I think alot of people undervalue what GW did here. Don't get me wrong i'm hoping for a great D this year, but I'm a little concerned. Blache doesn't have top 10 D's in his coaching past. His defenses have been middle of the pack.[/quote]

I thought that when Blache was DC for the bears i think it was 2000 or 2001 his defense was in the top 3 of the league and his scoring defense and defensive touchdowns were at the top, along with turnovers. Am i wrong?

Re: Kudos to Dan Snyder and Vinny Cerrato
 

Blache did an excellent job as Bears coordinator given the amount of injuries they suffered.

Re: Kudos to Dan Snyder and Vinny Cerrato
 

[quote=DiehardSkin88;455398]I thought that when Blache was DC for the bears i think it was 2000 or 2001 his defense was in the top 3 of the league and his scoring defense and defensive touchdowns were at the top, along with turnovers. Am i wrong?[/quote]

I'm really not trying to downgrade the credentials of Blache as much as trying to make a point about GW.

Did a little more research:

1999 29th ranked D
2000 16th
2001 15th
2002 25th

Re: Kudos to Dan Snyder and Vinny Cerrato
 

Slingin Sammy 33:

I'll pass on the Kool Aid if you don't mind.

When this off-season began with Gibbs' resignation and the FO went through a Keystone Kops routine to find a new head coach, I really didn't think things would look this good in July. I thought that Danny Boy and Vinnie Boombatz would find a way to sh*t the bed.

But they didn't!! They kept a playoff level team - not a Super Bowl level team but a playoff level team - together; and they added solid prospects that could shore up some of the weaknesses in this playoff level team. Had you asked me in January to make a prediction of the "State of the Skins" on July 4th, my predictions would have been far more negative than what we see in front of us now.

So, I offer congratuations. If people want to think that I'm only offering congratuations because the FO didn't sh*t the bed, you are free to think that. I think this has been the best off-season performance by the Redskins since Daniel Snyder bought the team.

Re: Kudos to Dan Snyder and Vinny Cerrato
 

[quote=sportscurmudgeon;455419]Slingin Sammy 33:

I'll pass on the Kool Aid if you don't mind.

When this off-season began with Gibbs' resignation and the FO went through a Keystone Kops routine to find a new head coach, I really didn't think things would look this good in July. I thought that Danny Boy and Vinnie Boombatz would find a way to sh*t the bed.

But they didn't!! They kept a playoff level team - not a Super Bowl level team but a playoff level team - together; and they added solid prospects that could shore up some of the weaknesses in this playoff level team. Had you asked me in January to make a prediction of the "State of the Skins" on July 4th, my predictions would have been far more negative than what we see in front of us now.

So, I offer congratuations. If people want to think that I'm only offering congratuations because the FO didn't sh*t the bed, you are free to think that. I think this has been the best off-season performance by the Redskins since Daniel Snyder bought the team.[/quote]

Let me ask you this. Right now, do you think we're the worst team in the NFC East? Cause I do.

Re: Kudos to Dan Snyder and Vinny Cerrato
 

What did Philly do to leapfrog over the Skins?

Re: Kudos to Dan Snyder and Vinny Cerrato
 

[quote=Mattyk72;455452]What did Philly do to leapfrog over the Skins?[/quote]

IMO, it's what they didn't have happen to them... a head coaching change.

I agree with the premise of this thread, that the Skins had a good offseason. But that was in light of making the best of a bad situation: the best coach this team has ever had just retired.

I cannot see how Gibbs retiring can result in a better record for us next season. I just can't. It would make no sense.

Now give Zorn a year and if he's any good, he might have an Andy Reid or Mike Holmgren offense up and running around here. Assuming the defense stays solid, we may be in a better place in 2009. But for 2008, you have to figure the learning curve will hurt us.

We had a good offseason because we made very level-headed moves and made a smart coaching hire. But even the best coaches USUALLY need some time for the learning curve. I think we're in for a basement finish this season. I'm just looking for signs that we'll do real well in 2009.

That said, I'm still praying that Zorn ends up like Sean Payton circa 2006.

Re: Kudos to Dan Snyder and Vinny Cerrato
 

I've always been a huge fan of stability in personnel and primarily building depth through the draft. I'm very pleased that we traded out of the first round, yet still got what we felt was 1st round talent. If our O-line stays healthy, I'm excited about all the weapons we have to pressure opposing defenses. This offseason may lack sizzle, but its substance will be measurable, especially in terms of giving Campbell tools to lead our franchise to the next level.

Re: Kudos to Dan Snyder and Vinny Cerrato
 

[quote=Schneed10;455465]IMO, it's what they didn't have happen to them... a head coaching change.

I agree with the premise of this thread, that the Skins had a good offseason. But that was in light of making the best of a bad situation: the best coach this team has ever had just retired.

[B]I cannot see how Gibbs retiring can result in a better record for us next season. I just can't. It would make no sense.[/B]

Now give Zorn a year and if he's any good, he might have an Andy Reid or Mike Holmgren offense up and running around here. Assuming the defense stays solid, we may be in a better place in 2009. But for 2008, you have to figure the learning curve will hurt us.

We had a good offseason because we made very level-headed moves and made a smart coaching hire. But even the best coaches USUALLY need some time for the learning curve. I think we're in for a basement finish this season. I'm just looking for signs that we'll do real well in 2009.

That said, I'm still praying that Zorn ends up like Sean Payton circa 2006.[/quote]

From a leadership perspective I agree, but from an offensive point of view I can easily see us being much better. And isn't that what always seemed to hold the team back under Gibbs?

Re: Kudos to Dan Snyder and Vinny Cerrato
 

[quote=Schneed10;455465]IMO, it's what they didn't have happen to them... a head coaching change.

I agree with the premise of this thread, that the Skins had a good offseason. But that was in light of making the best of a bad situation: the best coach this team has ever had just retired.

I cannot see how Gibbs retiring can result in a better record for us next season. I just can't. It would make no sense.

Now give Zorn a year and if he's any good, he might have an Andy Reid or Mike Holmgren offense up and running around here. Assuming the defense stays solid, we may be in a better place in 2009. But for 2008, you have to figure the learning curve will hurt us.

We had a good offseason because we made very level-headed moves and made a smart coaching hire. But even the best coaches USUALLY need some time for the learning curve. I think we're in for a basement finish this season. I'm just looking for signs that we'll do real well in 2009.

That said, I'm still praying that Zorn ends up like Sean Payton circa 2006.[/quote]


But Schneed, consider how many head coaching changes there have been after a "successful" season. Most head coaching changes are as a result of management fed up with the results of the previous coaching staff. Gibbs retired with the blessings of the owner, remnant coaching staff and the players, relatively speaking. We're not just some team in turmoil that is turning to Zorn to right the ship. This ship just completed her fairly successful maiden voyage after being dry-docked for a few years. [What's with the naval references?]
We lost two obviously critical pieces: the DC and the OC. As far as the OC position goes, Zorn himself will be calling the plays, I think, so not much of a conflict there. Blache may not be the genius that our other guy was but he does have previous DC experience (#1 in points alllowed in 2001), plus he's familiar with the current players.

I know it's a half-full way of looking at it but I don't think Zorn is here to correct a screwed up situation as is the case for most head coaching changes. He's here to not screw up an already good thing, which is a bit easier.

Re: Kudos to Dan Snyder and Vinny Cerrato
 

[quote=sportscurmudgeon;455419]Slingin Sammy 33:

I'll pass on the Kool Aid if you don't mind. [/quote] LOL

[quote]So, I offer congratuations. If people want to think that I'm only offering congratuations because the FO didn't sh*t the bed, you are free to think that. I think this has been the best off-season performance by the Redskins since Daniel Snyder bought the team.[/quote]
I agree with you, and as I stated before, good thread & good posts by you.

Re: Kudos to Dan Snyder and Vinny Cerrato
 

Norv Turner was handed a playoff team last year and he did farely well with them. From an offensive perspective, I definitely see the passing game becoming respectable. I mean, a defense won't be able to just cover Moss and Cooley and look for Portis in the backfield.

Re: Kudos to Dan Snyder and Vinny Cerrato
 

[QUOTE=724Skinsfan;455474]But Schneed, consider how many head coaching changes there have been after a "successful" season. Most head coaching changes are as a result of management fed up with the results of the previous coaching staff. Gibbs retired with the blessings of the owner, remnant coaching staff and the players, relatively speaking. We're not just some team in turmoil that is turning to Zorn to right the ship. This ship just completed her fairly successful maiden voyage after being dry-docked for a few years. [What's with the naval references?]
We lost two obviously critical pieces: the DC and the OC. As far as the OC position goes, Zorn himself will be calling the plays, I think, so not much of a conflict there. Blache may not be the genius that our other guy was but he does have previous DC experience (#1 in points alllowed in 2001), plus he's familiar with the current players.

I know it's a half-full way of looking at it but I don't think Zorn is here to correct a screwed up situation as is the case for most head coaching changes. He's here to not screw up an already good thing, which is a bit easier.[/QUOTE]
Great point.. 3 of the more 'questionable' hires last offseason were Wade Phillips, Norv Turner (and talk about a screwed up process) and Mike Tomlin0a first time HC with less coaching experience than Zorn. How did that work out for all of them?

I've worn out the keys on my keyboard with this statement, but Zorn is taking over a team with 22 returning starters, changing only the passing game, returning 90% of the coaching staff and have players in key positions that are solid or on the rise. Of our key playmakers, an argument can be made that only Springs, Fletcher and maybe Moss are on the decline. I don't see the reasons for such pessimism.

Re: Kudos to Dan Snyder and Vinny Cerrato
 

Where did this idea come from that a playoff team getting a new coach starts over from square one?! Last year two coaches inherited playoff teams: Wade Phillips and Norv Turner. Phillips significantly improved the regular season performance of the team while equaling his predecessor's playoff record, while Turner, after a rocky transition, took this group of Chargers players to their first two playoff victories and a narrow one score championship game loss to the undefeated Patriots. Additionally, Mike Tomlin took over a playoff caliber roster and brought home a division championship.

So I don't agree that a new coach inheriting a completely intact playoff roster necessarily equals a regression. In fact, recent history suggests the contrary.

Re: Kudos to Dan Snyder and Vinny Cerrato
 

I believe Paintrain and I are thinking the same way about this.

Re: Kudos to Dan Snyder and Vinny Cerrato
 

[QUOTE=redsk1;455416]I'm really not trying to downgrade the credentials of Blache as much as trying to make a point about GW.

Did a little more research:

1999 29th ranked D
2000 16th
2001 15th
2002 25th[/QUOTE]

Great points, and yes GW has had higher ranked defenses than GB. But that's the thing about stats, they don't tell the whole story. Let's take 2001 for example. The Bears had the 2nd ranked run defense in the NFL, allowed only three rushes of 20 yards or more all season, and had the top-ranked scoring defense in the league (12.7 points a game). Just trying to be balanced....

Re: Kudos to Dan Snyder and Vinny Cerrato
 

[QUOTE=djnemo65;455479]Where did this idea come from that a playoff team getting a new coach starts over from square one?! Last year two coaches inherited playoff teams: Wade Phillips and Norv Turner. Phillips significantly improved the regular season performance of the team while equaling his predecessor's playoff record, while Turner, after a rocky transition, took this group of Chargers players to their first two playoff victories and a narrow one score championship game loss to the undefeated Patriots. Additionally, Mike Tomlin took over a playoff caliber roster and brought home a division championship.

So I don't agree that a new coach inheriting a completely intact playoff roster necessarily equals a regression. In fact, recent history suggests the contrary.[/QUOTE]

I think the issue with Zorn is his experience level, the three coaches you mentioned had been coordinators before and Turner and Phillips had been head coaches at multiple stops. I don't mean to be pessimistic, but rather realistic. We all saw what happened when Saunders first installed his offense, there are going to be hiccups.

Re: Kudos to Dan Snyder and Vinny Cerrato
 

[QUOTE=memphisskin;455482]I think the issue with Zorn is his experience level, the three coaches you mentioned had been coordinators before and Turner and Phillips had been head coaches at multiple stops. I don't mean to be pessimistic, but rather realistic. We all saw what happened when Saunders first installed his offense, there are going to be hiccups.[/QUOTE]

Tomlin was a coordinator for exactly one year. I would say that, if its true that the Skins hired someone whose lack of experience precludes him from immediate success, then Vinny and Dan don't deserve any kudos at all. I for one am willing to give both them and Zorn the benefit of the doubt, and everything I have heard from training camp suggests that Zorn has hit the ground running.

By your reasoning we would be much better off with Fassel now, who achieved more with the Giants than either Phillips or Turner ever did with their former teams. Personally, while "hiccups" are perhaps inevitable, I don't lament us passing on Fassel for Zorn. I also think that, had we gone with Fassel, the exact same people would be complaining now.

Re: Kudos to Dan Snyder and Vinny Cerrato
 

[QUOTE=djnemo65;455484]Tomlin was a coordinator for exactly one year. I would say that, if its true that the Skins hired someone whose lack of experience precludes him from immediate success, then Vinny and Dan don't deserve any kudos at all. I for one am willing to give both them and Zorn the benefit of the doubt, and everything I have heard from training camp suggests that Zorn has hit the ground running.

By your reasoning we would be much better off with Fassel now, who achieved more with the Giants than either Phillips or Turner ever did with their former teams. Personally, while "hiccups" are perhaps inevitable, I don't lament us passing on Fassel for Zorn. I also think that, had we gone with Fassel, the exact same people would be complaining now.[/QUOTE]

I would be happy to debate Zorn-Tomlinson-Phillips and the whole Fassel fiasco, but this thread is about kudos to Vinny and Danny, which I think is a little premature. The results of this draft won't be known for a couple of years, but we already know that we didn't address the defensive or offensive lines, which are both old.

Judging the offseason as a whole, including the coaching search, its seems that this thread is much ado about nothing. We were finally quiet in free agency, but we did nothing to address the holes on our offensive and defensive lines. Our coaching search took a month, we hired an offensive coordinator (who I thought would be an excellent QB coach for Campbell) before a head coach and then turned around and acted like we had our guy the whole time. I want to see the Skins win, we'll see if that happens this year or not but I'm not ready to go sucking on everybody's popsicles just because Dan didn't write any checks for one summer.

Re: Kudos to Dan Snyder and Vinny Cerrato
 

[QUOTE=memphisskin;455487]I would be happy to debate Zorn-Tomlinson-Phillips and the whole Fassel fiasco, but this thread is about kudos to Vinny and Danny, which I think is a little premature. The results of this draft won't be known for a couple of years, but we already know that we didn't address the defensive or offensive lines, which are both old.

Judging the offseason as a whole, including the coaching search, its seems that this thread is much ado about nothing. We were finally quiet in free agency, but [b]we did nothing to address the holes on our offensive and defensive lines.[/b] Our coaching search took a month, we hired an offensive coordinator (who I thought would be an excellent QB coach for Campbell) before a head coach and then turned around and acted like we had our guy the whole time. I want to see the Skins win, we'll see if that happens this year or not but I'm not ready to go sucking on everybody's popsicles just because Dan didn't write any checks for one summer.[/QUOTE]
What holes exist on the OL that needed filling? We drafted a backup C/G in Rienhart and have Heyer & Wade to backup at tackle. Hopefully we don't need them as much as they played last year, but if so it wasn't a disaster.

Re: Kudos to Dan Snyder and Vinny Cerrato
 

[QUOTE=Paintrain;455488]What holes exist on the OL that needed filling? We drafted a backup C/G in Rienhart and have Heyer & Wade to backup at tackle. Hopefully we don't need them as much as they played last year, but if so it wasn't a disaster.[/QUOTE]

And Erasmus James could prove to be a steal as well. I think it's odd to say that to give kudos is premature, and then say we already know they didn't address the line without even seeing the players step on the field.

Re: Kudos to Dan Snyder and Vinny Cerrato
 

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;455490]And Erasmus James could prove to be a steal as well. I think it's odd to say that to give kudos is premature, and then say we already know they didn't address the line without even seeing the players step on the field.[/QUOTE]

I'm not going to tell you again to stop using logic and common sense on a message board. You know better.

Re: Kudos to Dan Snyder and Vinny Cerrato
 

Too many posts to respond to by quoting, so I'll do it all here:

1) The change from Gibbs to Zorn could very well be an upgrade on offense, who knows. But I promise you, not in the motivational category. Gibbs' December record was crazy. Let's not forget that we were a very mediocre team until Taylor died and Gibbs willed the team forward, and Collins came in to execute a system he's been in long enough to teach it at Harvard.

2) Wade Phillips and Mike Tomlin, huh. Let's see, what do they have in common? Oh yeah, they took over a team with unquestioned leaders at QB who had kick-ass seasons in their recent pasts. The year before Wade took over, Romo started 10 games after taking over for Bledsoe, getting red hot, and posting a QB rating of 95. Tomlin took over a team that went 8-8 the year before and guided them to a 10-6 record a year later. That 8-8 season, Roethlisberger was coming off his career worst season. Reason? He had Hines Ward and a bunch of chumps to throw to. Last year Tomlin takes over, and Santonio Holmes and Heath Miller grow out of their rookie seasons into decent targets. Point being, give an established QB like Big Ben multiple reliable targets, and he's going to do well. Norv Turner? He took over Phillip Rivers, who's nothing to write home about. Maybe that's why the Chargers took a step back last year in regular season record. They still made the playoffs because they easily have the most talent in the NFL. They made the playoffs DESPITE Norv.

Let's think about another instant success. Sean Payton... Drew Brees.

Point being? What do we have at QB? A question mark, that's what. Campbell is promising, but it's not like taking over a real strong QB situation. Phillips, Tomlin, and Payton aren't comparable situations. It's not fair to Zorn.

Re: Kudos to Dan Snyder and Vinny Cerrato
 

[QUOTE=Paintrain;455488]What holes exist on the OL that needed filling? We drafted a backup C/G in Rienhart and have Heyer & Wade to backup at tackle. Hopefully we don't need them as much as they played last year, but if so it wasn't a disaster.[/QUOTE]

OK, maybe saying "holes" on the o-line is a bit strong, although there's a reason Pete Kendall didn't get a long term deal from the Jets and I'm guessing it rhymes with Darthritis Peas.

Re: Kudos to Dan Snyder and Vinny Cerrato
 

[QUOTE=SmootSmack;455490]And Erasmus James could prove to be a steal as well. I think it's odd to say that to give kudos is premature, and then say we already know they didn't address the line without even seeing the players step on the field.[/QUOTE]

I think you just proved my point about kudos SS. The Vikings had WAIVED James, meaning he was going to be free to sign with any team but we had to have him so we ended up trading for him. So instead of signing him AFTER he cleared waivers we trade a 7th round pick for him and hope he turns out? I think we agree that we need an upgrade at DE over Daniels, I just don't think that EJ is going to be that. Danny & Vinny getting kudos for this offseason really shows me how awful their past offseasons have been. DE has been a problem since Charles Mann retired, but we haven't drafted a DE before the 6th round since 1997? I'm not withholding kudos, I'm about to start booing!

Re: Kudos to Dan Snyder and Vinny Cerrato
 

[QUOTE=Schneed10;455500]Too many posts to respond to by quoting, so I'll do it all here:

1) The change from Gibbs to Zorn could very well be an upgrade on offense, who knows. But I promise you, not in the motivational category. Gibbs' December record was crazy. Let's not forget that we were a very mediocre team until Taylor died and Gibbs willed the team forward, and Collins came in to execute a system he's been in long enough to teach it at Harvard.

2) Wade Phillips and Mike Tomlin, huh. Let's see, what do they have in common? Oh yeah, they took over a team with unquestioned leaders at QB who had kick-ass seasons in their recent pasts. The year before Wade took over, Romo started 10 games after taking over for Bledsoe, getting red hot, and posting a QB rating of 95. Tomlin took over a team that went 8-8 the year before and guided them to a 10-6 record a year later. That 8-8 season, Roethlisberger was coming off his career worst season. Reason? He had Hines Ward and a bunch of chumps to throw to. Last year Tomlin takes over, and Santonio Holmes and Heath Miller grow out of their rookie seasons into decent targets. Point being, give an established QB like Big Ben multiple reliable targets, and he's going to do well. Norv Turner? He took over Phillip Rivers, who's nothing to write home about. Maybe that's why the Chargers took a step back last year in regular season record. They still made the playoffs because they easily have the most talent in the NFL. They made the playoffs DESPITE Norv.

Let's think about another instant success. Sean Payton... Drew Brees.

Point being? What do we have at QB? A question mark, that's what. Campbell is promising, but it's not like taking over a real strong QB situation. Phillips, Tomlin, and Payton aren't comparable situations. It's not fair to Zorn.[/QUOTE]

Well it goes without saying that those of us who are optimistic about next season are absolutely assuming Campbell will develop into the player we think he can be: a legitimate winning NFL starting quarterback. To argue that, should our QB not take some significant steps forward over the course of the next year we will be in trouble, is one thing. To argue that the change at coach somehow precludes this is another entirely. I for one think that our offense will be improved next year, and thus remain optimistic.

Re: Kudos to Dan Snyder and Vinny Cerrato
 

[quote=Mattyk72;455452]What did Philly do to leapfrog over the Skins?[/quote]

I didn't think we were better than them last year. I'd say we were about even. Now we've lost #21, they've added Samuel, plus we're learning a new offense and all the old guys that we're really counting on are a year older. And right now they've got a better QB.

Re: Kudos to Dan Snyder and Vinny Cerrato
 

After a good night's sleep and a big glass of Kool-Aid (what happened to the Kool Aid avatar btw?) here's my new view on D&V.

You know what, screw it. The right side of our line is back, Zorn is going to find a way to get Portis and Betts involved in the passing game, and Campbell has another year under his belt. Maybe the FO did need to take a reprieve and let the jet cool for a summer. The one thing D&V deserve kudos for is that they have done nothing to overshadow Coach Zorn, they are letting him do his thing and they went out and got him the weapons he needs to run his offense.

Smootsmack, you are absolutely right on James, he could be a steal and if not he only cost us a 7th round pick next year so its worthwhile. I have been anti-VC for so long that I am just accustomed to panning everything he does, I will give him and the team a chance. And they do deserve kudos for not trying to win their 8th consecutive Summer Super Bowl title. I see the o-line being a force, Jason Campbell spreading the ball, and Clinton Portis running buck wild. I'm officially on board!

Re: Kudos to Dan Snyder and Vinny Cerrato
 

[quote=skinsfan69;455522]I didn't think we were better than them last year. I'd say we were about even. Now we've lost #21, they've added Samuel, plus we're learning a new offense and all the old guys that we're really counting on are a year older. And right now they've got a better QB.[/quote]

I think it's fair to say the Eagles have their share of question marks as well. McNabb's health being the main one. He's already missed some time this offseason with a sore shoulder.

-They have some potential drama brewing with Sheppard still on the roster.

-They still don't scare anyone at WR.

-Westbrook is a gamer but he's also inching towards 30 and with his workload a breakdown could come at any time.

Re: Kudos to Dan Snyder and Vinny Cerrato
 

[QUOTE=memphisskin;455512]OK, maybe saying "holes" on the o-line is a bit strong, although there's a reason Pete Kendall didn't get a long term deal from the Jets and I'm guessing it rhymes with Darthritis Peas.[/QUOTE]

SO drafting his eventual (either this year or next) replacement wasn't addressing that need?

** Sorry, posted this before reading your response just above.. Was arguing with the GF until 3am so I'm still a bit feisty! :argue:**

Re: Kudos to Dan Snyder and Vinny Cerrato
 

[quote=djnemo65;455518]Well it goes without saying that those of us who are optimistic about next season are absolutely assuming Campbell will develop into the player we think he can be: a legitimate winning NFL starting quarterback. To argue that, should our QB not take some significant steps forward over the course of the next year we will be in trouble, is one thing. [B]To argue that the change at coach somehow precludes this is another entirely[/B]. I for one think that our offense will be improved next year, and thus remain optimistic.[/quote]

On the bolded part, I vehemently disagree. The fact that Campbell has not yet established himself as a stud QB, COMBINED with the fact that he'll be working under a new coach in a new system in Zorn, reduces the chances that the offense will click successfully in year 1.

Because with Brees, Payton got a QB who already had a stud season. With Roethisberger, Tomlin got a guy who had led his team to a SB win. With Romo, Wade got a guy who set the world on fire in the final 10 games of the previous season.

Turner? He got an up and coming QB in Rivers, who hadn't yet arrived. What happened? The coaching change resulted in a worse record than the year before. Now when you've got that line, plus Tomlinson, plus that defense, you can still make the playoffs. But the Redskins don't have SD's talent to get them through the flux of a coaching change.

There's not a lot of precedence for instant success when you combine a new head coach with a not-yet-established NFL QB. Can you think of any recently? I can't.

Re: Kudos to Dan Snyder and Vinny Cerrato
 

[QUOTE=memphisskin;455528]After a good night's sleep and a big glass of Kool-Aid (what happened to the Kool Aid avatar btw?) here's my new view on D&V.

You know what, screw it. The right side of our line is back, Zorn is going to find a way to get Portis and Betts involved in the passing game, and Campbell has another year under his belt. Maybe the FO did need to take a reprieve and let the jet cool for a summer. The one thing D&V deserve kudos for is that they have done nothing to overshadow Coach Zorn, they are letting him do his thing and they went out and got him the weapons he needs to run his offense.

Smootsmack, you are absolutely right on James, he could be a steal and if not he only cost us a 7th round pick next year so its worthwhile. I have been anti-VC for so long that I am just accustomed to panning everything he does, I will give him and the team a chance. And they do deserve kudos for not trying to win their 8th consecutive Summer Super Bowl title. I see the o-line being a force, Jason Campbell spreading the ball, and Clinton Portis running buck wild. I'm officially on board![/QUOTE]

On a slightly related note, Clayton picked Portis as the NFC East's Most Improved Veteran in 2008. I don't really even know what he meant by that. But it sounds pretty awesome!

Re: Kudos to Dan Snyder and Vinny Cerrato
 

In the past I have been a critic of D&V for their high dollar/ high profile/high bust rate of the past (2001 to Gibbs arrival) as it relates to free agency and player personnel decisions. We consistently had the highest payroll combined with consistent losing record. Not a great track record.
Which is why some people do not like VC because Dan Snyder seems to hold a diffrent standard for him. DS keeps VC around for some reason despite some really poor seasons. Maybe by firing VC it would require DS to admit to poor FO management?
Then Gibbs arrived and our poor habits diminished. We made the playoffs for the first time in years.
I am glad to see D&V have stayed on the Gibbs course since Gibbs left.

It is too early to give Kudos, but I like what they have done so far since Gibbs left..so far.
I do [B]not[/B] like to second guess player personnel until the players have a chance to prove themselves on the field. But the only move I have second guessed recently is the 3rd draft pick (TE). At a time when we are getting very old in the offensive and defensive lines, a 2nd team TE seemed like a luxury pick. We will see.

My only concern is we are one of the oldest teams in the NFL.
Guys like Jansen have have not made it through a season with out missing significant time since gas was under $2 a gallon. Our starting LG is pushing 40. Two of our better DL (C. Griffen and Phillip Daniels) and Shawn Springs are old.
My only concern is their replacements have not stepped up on the field and proved they are ready to take over.

Re: Kudos to Dan Snyder and Vinny Cerrato
 

Pete Kendall turns 35 tomorrow. Old for a football player, yes. But saying he's pushing 40 is stretching it just a bit.

Or did I miss something and 35 is the new 40?

Re: Kudos to Dan Snyder and Vinny Cerrato
 

No way does Kendall make it all 16 games this year. I know Buges is getting this guy Reinhart ready.

Re: Kudos to Dan Snyder and Vinny Cerrato
 

[quote=skinsfan69;455591]No way does Kendall make it all 16 games this year. I know Buges is getting this guy Reinhart ready.[/quote]

He might not... but it's worth noting the last time he missed more than a start or two was back in 2001. Even with his bad knees he's been a rock.

Re: Kudos to Dan Snyder and Vinny Cerrato
 

[QUOTE=Schneed10;455537]On the bolded part, I vehemently disagree. The fact that Campbell has not yet established himself as a stud QB, COMBINED with the fact that he'll be working under a new coach in a new system in Zorn, reduces the chances that the offense will click successfully in year 1.

Because with Brees, Payton got a QB who already had a stud season. With Roethisberger, Tomlin got a guy who had led his team to a SB win. With Romo, Wade got a guy who set the world on fire in the final 10 games of the previous season.

Turner? He got an up and coming QB in Rivers, who hadn't yet arrived. What happened? The coaching change resulted in a worse record than the year before. Now when you've got that line, plus Tomlinson, plus that defense, you can still make the playoffs. But the Redskins don't have SD's talent to get them through the flux of a coaching change.

There's not a lot of precedence for instant success when you combine a new head coach with a not-yet-established NFL QB. Can you think of any recently? I can't.[/QUOTE]

Well if you are going to bring up the Sean Peyton example from that year you would also have to talk about the Jets and Mangini, who while not necessarily having a not yet established qb, did have a tumultuous situation that I would think to be worse than ours. As for your other examples, fair enough, but I think it’s important to point out that all those players got better under their new coaches (Rivers notwithstanding). Roethilsberger had followed a disastrous Superbowl performance with an even more disastrous season, and I don't think many were expecting him to grow into the elite passer he became last year. Romo, after a hot start in 06, had faded down the stretch and was not a sure thing by any means. Rivers? I think his struggles had more to do with his deficiencies as a player than with the coaching change, as Turner, in spite of his abundant faults, has a stellar record of working with quarterbacks. Even Brees was not known to be more than a good QB prior to his teaming with Peyton, who brought his game to another level.

There are also examples (Alex Smith comes to mind) of players who greatly regressed under new tutelage. But my point is that historical precedence does exist for QB's getting better after a coaching change.

I think your position is prudent and almost certainly represents the conventional wisdom around the league vis-à-vis the Skins; however, after a summer of Kool Aid drinking I am buying into Zorn and banking that JC will take a huge step forward this year. I also took a trip to Amsterdam this summer – now that's some Kool Aid they have over there! But that's another story...