Re: Devin Thomas
 

[quote=Angry;465179]Devin did cactch a ball as he was diving out of bounds. If he would have gotten his feet down it wold have been a completion. Had he gotten that completion, the thread would have read something like "Start him now" or "Devin Thomas for HOF".

He is still a rookie guys; give him at least 3 years before you call him out. On average thats how long it takes to develop into a good WR in this league.[/quote]

I couldnt have said it any better. Not only is he a rookie but he has been hurt most of camp and he is somewhat out of shape. Going from the college level to the nfl is a huge jump for alot of players. I think once he gets in shape he will make some contributions this season for us. I hope we get to see kelly this weekend. but i am sure the same will apply how good of shape could he possibly be in.

Re: Devin Thomas
 

[quote=theJBexperience;465118]I don't think one catch is too much to expect, especially in a preseason game.

There are plenty or rookies who've made their presence known so far in the preseason: David Clowney, Desean Jackson, Lavelle Hawkins, Eddie Royal, Josh Morgan, Martin Nance, Dominique Zeigler, Onrea Jones and many more have been able to show up against the practice squad bound defenses they've faced. Devin did not.

I'm not going to label him a bust, but you've got to admit that it's disappointing. And I'm sure there's no one more disappointed than DT either. Let's see if he bounces back next week.

Some have pointed out that Dwight Lowery was manned up on Devin most the night, and it looks like the Jets have found themselves a quality CB in the fourth round. I wish the same could be said for the Skins CB from the 4th.[/quote]

Clowney is actually in his second year, he was drafted by G. Bay last year in the 3rd round I believe. Clowney, along w/Royal & MOrgan are Hokies, so I"m happy to see them do well. Is Morgan really making an impact in SF? I thought he was a good value pick, not just cause he went to VT. He played in an offense w/3 other wr's (3 of which were drafted) so his college #s were not big, but he has the physical ability.

As for Thomas, I only got to catch some of the game last night on comcast's replay and I was pleasantly surprised that he almost made that play on the sideline when he was out of bounds. With time he'll make plays like that on a regular basis. I'm encouraged that he was out there. There's plenty of time left for him to get some good reps. These next 2 games we'll likely see a lot of him. Given the injuries at wr, he might get in the rotation w/the first team during the carolina game.

The only discouraging thing about him (and Kelly) is what we already knew before the game; that they weren't in shape & ready for camp. They've got to learn how to be pros and they're not likely to have big rookie years, but that doesn't mean they won't contribute some & help the offense.

Re: Devin Thomas
 

Okay, Here's the deal. Devin Thomas was thrown two passes. One a deep loft by Collins in which Thomas made an excellent play to jump over the defender but could not control the catch. A play he should make yes but I love the athleticism. The second was a nice grab near the sidelines where he just barely failed to get his second foot down. Please do not judge this guy based on one quarter of play. Am I mistaken or did Braylon Edwards look pretty iffy his rookie year. Rookie receivers rarely ever have big years. Randy Moss was an exception. Give him time, he'll come around. Out.

Re: Devin Thomas
 

[quote=djnemo65;465180]Devin Thomas may turn out to be a complete bust or he may be the next TO. To even have an opinion about him at this point, however, based on his first preseason game after missing most of training camp to injury, is so stupid it makes me dizzy.[/quote]

I agree 110%.

I guess we need to watch out for the Malcom Kelly thread next since he might see some action this weekend. Better hope he catches a ball. :doh:

Re: Devin Thomas
 

[QUOTE=WaldSkins;465091]I thought everyone looked like crap last night, why do we have to single out Devin. The only player that looked good was man-crush Brennan.[/QUOTE]

Man-crush Brennan played against the scrubs on Saturday...which he did so too against the Colts, so I wouldn't put much into this. I think anyone who either thinks Thomas is a bust or is just straight up complaining about them, needs to remember what people were saying before the draft that rookie WRs don't contribute right away. If the team wanted a wideout to contribute right away, then we would have wanted a veteran.

Re: Devin Thomas
 

[QUOTE=Angry;465179]Devin did cactch a ball as he was diving out of bounds. If he would have gotten his feet down it wold have been a completion. Had he gotten that completion, the thread would have read something like "Start him now" or "Devin Thomas for HOF".

He is still a rookie guys; [b]give him at least 3 years before you call him out.[/b] On average thats how long it takes to develop into a good WR in this league.[/QUOTE]

Exactly. 3 years. That's usually when WRs break-out.

Re: Devin Thomas
 

[QUOTE=ChillWill;465163]In a post game interview Devin stated that he was tired. I think the kid is not in NFL shape yet and is even further behind because of the hammy. It's going to take time. He ran a couple of kicks back and ran down on punts and is exhausted. He'll learn what it takes to play at this level but no one is going to feel sorry for him because he's our #1 pick. I wonder if any veterans have taken him under their wing? Antwan? Or is he a cocky kid who thinks he's got it figured out?[/QUOTE]

yeah i was a bit disappointed that both thomas and kelly failed their physicals when they came into camp. first time i heard and was surprised to find out that most rookie wide receivers are not in good shape when they come into camp. that being said, gave zorn a chance to establish his stance on players not in shape: if you are not in shape you have not earned the right to take the field with guys who have put in the work. period.

i have grown increasingly happy with our 2nd round picks and will look forward to seeing who is going to emerge as key player for us in a few years. especially at 5 yrs 10 mil price tag.

also nice to read davis is the last man to leave the practice field putting in extra work in the red zone. i was alil worried he might be another USC player who doesnt have the understanding of the hard work required to excel at the nfl level b/c of the easy success USC enjoys.

im ready for some football! go skins!

Re: Devin Thomas
 

They didn't fail physicals they failed the team conditioning test, big difference.

Re: Devin Thomas
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;466433]They didn't fail physicals they failed the team conditioning test, big difference.[/QUOTE]

Very big difference Matty. And apparently Zorn let out that Smoot has never passed his conditioning test before camp.

I think we'll see a big difference in Thomas' performance this week.

Re: Devin Thomas
 

[quote=GhettoDogAllStars;465246]Exactly. 3 years. That's usually when WRs break-out.[/quote]I agree on this, I will give Thomas (and Kelly) at least 3 years to show us something promising before I write them off as players.

I still think Thomas was a bad pick given all the information available to us, and though I think Cerrato has by and large done a good job since taking control, Thomas is going to have to prove --to me -- by his play on the field that he was deserving of the pick we used on him. Until he can prove me wrong, I'll continue to think his selection was a mistake.

I'm just trying to make the distinction here clear between the justification of a player's selection, and the evaluation of his NFL career. I want to give DT every chance to prove he can be the future No. 1 WR of the Redskins, because the team certainly has that faith in him. I just think that it might be faith misplaced.

Re: Devin Thomas
 

[quote=GTripp0012;466436]I agree on this, I will give Thomas (and Kelly) at least 3 years to show us something promising before I write them off as players.

I still think Thomas was a bad pick given all the information available to us, and though I think Cerrato has by and large done a good job since taking control, Thomas is going to have to prove --to me -- by his play on the field that he was deserving of the pick we used on him. Until he can prove me wrong, I'll continue to think his selection was a mistake.

I'm just trying to make the distinction here clear between the justification of a player's selection, and the evaluation of his NFL career. I want to give DT every chance to prove he can be the future No. 1 WR of the Redskins, because the team certainly has that faith in him. I just think that it might be faith misplaced.[/quote]

Would you have felt like that if we had a first round pick to spend on... say... a stud DE... then went on to pick him in the second round? Remember that just because he was our first pick, he was still a second round pick. Second round should produce either good solid talent or a chance at a big talent IMHO.

Not saying I'm right. Just wondering your thought process and/or where you had him ranked.

Re: Devin Thomas
 

[quote=GoSkins!;466439]Would you have felt like that if we had a first round pick to spend on... say... a stud DE... then went on to pick him in the second round? Remember that just because he was our first pick, he was still a second round pick. Second round should produce either good solid talent or a chance at a big talent IMHO.

Not saying I'm right. Just wondering your thought process and/or where you had him ranked.[/quote]I was really, really ecstatic when we got the Falcons to trade up into our spot, and even knowing the outcome of the draft haul, I would not wish for any sort of do over where we have to use that first round pick.

Because of weakness in the class, he was the second receiver off the board. Based on what I know about college receivers with a limited history of successful [I]seasons[/I], I did not have him in my top ten WRs.

Disclaimer: I don't want this to sound like I expect Cerrato and Snyder to base their drafts off the lists I create for player rankings. Given that all the scouting info I can get is second-hand knowledge, it would be really stupid of them to do something like listen exclusively to a fan when selecting.

However, draft analysts can totally ignore red flags on prospects when they are ranking them..because after the draft, no one is going to remember what the draft analyst thought of the prospect. There's no accountability factor. And that's why it's dangerous to pick a player only because he is highly liked by the Mel Kiper/Todd McShay/Mike Mayock scouting crowd.

The Redskins, I feel, should have done their own independent scouting on the wide receiver class (which isn't to accuse them of not doing their homework, but this is part of a larger point). Had they done so, I'm pretty confident that they would have taken a more productive college player than Thomas with their top selection. I think they liked a lot of the receivers, and grabbed Thomas because they thought that they we're getting great value on him. And while that's a great way to work your fantasy football draft, draft value should be relative to actual historical trends.

I'm know they liked Devin Thomas and Malcolm Kelly, and I'm sure they also liked the Limas Sweeds and DeSean Jacksons of the world. I simply disagree with any [B]methodology[/B] in which you line all those guys up against the wall, and decide that the safest pick on the board is the guy with one ridiculous college season...and nothing else remotely close to matching that production.

Anyway, I'm sure Vinny will do a great job in his tenure as Redskins V.P. of Player Personnel, but I do (still) think he'll look back on the second round of this draft with a little bit of a "what if" factor.

[B]And hopefully, I'm totally wrong on this[/B] and Devin Thomas ends up developing into a top target in this league. The early returns just aren't positive right now (and since its the preseason, that should probably be taken with a grain of salt).

I'm not writing him off by ANY means, let me make that clear. I just have very, very tempered expectations for the guy. I don't see him as the savior of our inconsistent receiving corps.

Re: Devin Thomas
 

I just realized I only partially answered GOSkins' question in that long response.

Basically, had we not traded down, it would have depended on the available players at that #51 selection. If for some reason, there had been a run on receivers, and teams left Devin Thomas on the board, I would have said, "OK, if we want a top WR prospect in this draft, this is pretty much the only option." In that case the potential reward of the Number One WR they expect Thomas to become overshadows the enormous risk that comes with drafting a prospect like him, and the selection is justified.

But otherwise, no, probably still a poor selection.

Re: Devin Thomas
 

[QUOTE=Mattyk72;466433]They didn't fail physicals they failed the team conditioning test, big difference.[/QUOTE]

thank you matty, yeah there is a big difference. either way i was surprised to find them out of shape to the point it has slowed their ability to get on the practice field and have zorn comment on it a few times. yeah the hammy has keep them off the field too.

just surprised 23 year old wide receivers are out of shape for the beginning of their football careers.

thread hijack! desean of the eagles looks like he has that "it" factor.

go skins!

Re: Devin Thomas
 

[quote=GTripp0012;466442]I just realized I only partially answered GOSkins' question in that long response.

Basically, had we not traded down, it would have depended on the available players at that #51 selection. If for some reason, there had been a run on receivers, and teams left Devin Thomas on the board, I would have said, "OK, if we want a top WR prospect in this draft, this is pretty much the only option." In that case the potential reward of the Number One WR they expect Thomas to become overshadows the enormous risk that comes with drafting a prospect like him, and the selection is justified.

But otherwise, no, probably still a poor selection.[/quote]

Thanks for the response. But I guess I don't really understand why you say the skins expect him to be the Number One WR (at some point). For example, if we had picked Randle El in the second round I would think we would have made a good pick. He is clearly not a number one receiver, but he is solid as a number 2 and good as a 3. If Deven Thomas can be a solid (or hopefully dangerous) number two, I'd be really happy.

Also, I think we can both agree the WR class this year was pretty weak. I don't really see any "sure things". Maybe that's why the skins decided to gamble on a one year wonder. I think they picked three receivers in the second and hoped to hit one right based on shear volume!

Re: Devin Thomas
 

[quote=GoSkins!;466547]Thanks for the response. But I guess I don't really understand why you say the skins expect him to be the Number One WR (at some point). For example, if we had picked Randle El in the second round I would think we would have made a good pick. He is clearly not a number one receiver, but he is solid as a number 2 and good as a 3. If Deven Thomas can be a solid (or hopefully dangerous) number two, I'd be really happy.

Also, I think we can both agree the WR class this year was pretty weak. I don't really see any "sure things". Maybe that's why the skins decided to gamble on a one year wonder. I think they picked three receivers in the second and hoped to hit one right based on shear volume![/quote]Those are both very good points.

I do think that if ARE didn't have very good special teams value, we would say that the Steelers reached on his selection. He hasn't justified a 2nd round pick with his receiving skills. I think if you are addressing WR in the first two rounds, you are doing so with the idea that they guy you are taking should develop into a No. 1 WR. It seems like the Redskins (ideally) want Kelly and Thomas to be co No. 1 WRs, sort of like Housh and CJ in Cinci, or Boldin and Fitz in Arizona. I think they'll be happy if they get a No. 1 and a No. 2 out of those picks, but would probably be disappointed if neither Kelly or Thomas becomes a No. 1 WR.

There was definately not a sure thing in the WR class, but IMO, that only makes the logic of grabbing two WRs in the 2nd round more flawed.

Fred Davis, for example, was a very solid selection at least as a receiving TE. The argument against Davis was that we didn't need to spend a high pick on a TE, but let's face it: our depth behind Cooley was a guy (Yoder) who was out of the league in 2006 when we grabbed him...and though he's been a nice role player, even making Yoder a spot starter would have been stretching us thin.

So I like the Davis pick, even though I wouldn't have picked him there if I was in Vinny shoes. I'm just trying to show how even if I think we had more pressing needs elsewhere, I can get on board with a selection if the logic behind it makes sense. To me, the logic behind taking Thomas was much weaker: we needed a WR, but we didn't take the best one available, IMO. The Skins will say that they had him highly ranked with a bunch of other guys they liked, but I would have hoped they took anyone else over him. I'm not convinced that too many other teams would have taken him on day one.

Re: Devin Thomas
 

The one thing that I have found very curious about D. Thomas' performance in the off-season so far, is how few times Zorn has called his number. I have watched a couple of Philly's game and you can tell that they are running plays just to get D. Jackson involved. For some reason I haven't seen Zorn do any of that, now I obviously don't know what plays are getting called but I haven't seen anything where I felt that they were just trying to get Thomas the ball - no slants, no screens nothing. Has anyone else noticed the same thing?

Re: Devin Thomas
 

Right now I kind of wish we nabbed Jordy Nelson instead of Devin Thomas. Hopefully I'm wrong and both have great careers with Devin having the better. However as others have said give Thomas time (see Roddy White), it does take at least 3 years to develop a quality receiver and even if they have a great rookie year, there is still the possibility of regression (see Michael Clayton).

Re: Devin Thomas
 

I believe over time Malcom Kelly will prove to be a worthy pick. I think he is a much better route runner than Thomas. Devin is very raw and will need time to learn route running. Right now he cannot get open.

Re: Devin Thomas
 

[quote=Skinz4life;467679]The one thing that I have found very curious about D. Thomas' performance in the off-season so far, is how few times Zorn has called his number. I have watched a couple of Philly's game and you can tell that they are running plays just to get D. Jackson involved. For some reason I haven't seen Zorn do any of that, now I obviously don't know what plays are getting called but I haven't seen anything where I felt that they were just trying to get Thomas the ball - no slants, no screens nothing. Has anyone else noticed the same thing?[/quote]

they threw him a screen sat. night which he ran for 3-4 yards. He was definitely hesitant, just like he was on the kickoff returns. Definitely looks like a rookie who hasn't played much in camp.

Re: Devin Thomas
 

Here's the answer to our doubts...we should've picked up a veteran. Who? I don't know. But a proven vet free agent would have contributed right away. Now, the Thomas/Kelly pick was a good one, for the future of the team. But obviously we need someone that can contribute right away. So two things will happen...either a.) Our offense gets better b/c the problem last year was Gibbs conservative offense or b.) we realize that we still need a posession receiver that can contribute right away, and don't have that b/c these rookies are far away from contributing.

Re: Devin Thomas
 

[quote=Skinz4life;467679]The one thing that I have found very curious about D. Thomas' performance in the off-season so far, is how few times Zorn has called his number. I have watched a couple of Philly's game and you can tell that they are running plays just to get D. Jackson involved. For some reason I haven't seen Zorn do any of that, now I obviously don't know what plays are getting called but I haven't seen anything where I felt that they were just trying to get Thomas the ball - no slants, no screens nothing. Has anyone else noticed the same thing?[/quote]

Interesting point. All I will say is if you're going off of pure production, wasn't D. Jackson the best wr in the draft? He played against top college talent and his production was high and he played in a pro style offense. His only knock was his size. But it seems that our front office was very worried about the size of our wr's and maybe over looked production. Time will tell. It's still early.

Re: Devin Thomas
 

Thomas hasn't done much to earn balls coming his way. He's still working his way back and Thrash is entrenched as the #3 right now. I don't see why Zorn should be going out of his way to have passes go Devin's way.

Re: Devin Thomas
 

From a production stand point D. Thomas numbers were as good as anyones in the draft, the big knock on him going into the draft was he a one year wonder. I really hope that he is able to snap out of the funk he's been in because the skins are going to need either him or Kelly to contribute this season if they are going to be successful.

Re: Devin Thomas
 

[quote=Mattyk72;467725]Thomas hasn't done much to earn balls coming his way. He's still working his way back and Thrash is entrenched as the #3 right now. I don't see why Zorn should be going out of his way to have passes go Devin's way.[/quote]


well put. i was hoping to see kelly the other night but its all good. you gotta earn balls being thrown your way....

Re: Devin Thomas
 

The reason they should be at least looking his way is because they have to see what he can do. I am not saying throw the ball his way 10 times a game but at least throw him a screen and see what he can do once he gets the ball in his hands. This thing about "earning balls" doesn't make sense if you are throwing at guys you are going to cut in a week.

Re: Devin Thomas
 

For everyone that thought that Thomas and Kelly were immediate impact players, think again...they are here for the long haul, and (I feel like Jim Mora) "preseason"???? We're talking about preseason?????

Relax. They weren't slated to be our #1 or #2...give it time. This is a precise reason why I do not watch preseason...it means nothing!!!!!

Re: Devin Thomas
 

[QUOTE=Skinz4life;467787]The reason they should be at least looking his way is because they have to see what he can do. I am not saying throw the ball his way 10 times a game but at least throw him a screen and see what he can do once he gets the ball in his hands. This thing about "earning balls" doesn't make sense[B] if you are throwing at guys you are going to cut in a week.[/B][/QUOTE]

Exactly because you are going to cut one or two of them and not all of them is why you throw at them in preseason, to see which one can produce the best at game speed. Thomas, and Kelly, will be on the team, they will get their chances to grow and produce. The coaches in preseason are evaluating the talent at the cut line. They haven't thrown many balls at Cooley, is anyone really afraid that they won't use him in the regular season. I don't think so.

Re: Devin Thomas
 

Keep in mind a WR that comes straight out of the gun as a superstar is a pretty rare commodity. Kelly has always been an excellent possession receiver in college and thomas was brought here for his raw talent as a project.