Re: Until we have both an Offensive line and Defensive line we will suck....
 

[quote=NY_Skinsfan;509068]We can't freakin' pass protect and we can't rush the passer. Nothing else matters if we can't accomplish either. The f'ing Ravens won that game in the first 5 minutes of that game. We suck.............[/quote]
I couldn't agree more. [URL="http://dcprosportsreport.com/?p=2087"]Sign the petition[/URL]. Yes, really.

Re: Until we have both an Offensive line and Defensive line we will suck....
 

[quote=joethiesmanfan;509252]Is it just me, or did it seem like Campbell had more time to throw when Samuels and Jansen were on the side line?[/quote]

I think that may have been because at that point the Ravens were pulling back on all the blitzing and were in more of a prevent mode.

Re: Until we have both an Offensive line and Defensive line we will suck....
 

What is up with Chad Rinehart, is he any good? Hopefully he will turn out ok, if that is the case then that will be 2 possible starters for the OL in 2 years-along with Heyer, who just fell in the skins laps....Just trying to stay positive....

The DL on the other hand I cant recall the last time they drafted or picked up a decent undrafted rookie.....

Re: Until we have both an Offensive line and Defensive line we will suck....
 

Didn't really hear too many complaints about the OL while we were 6-2. As the season is wearing on the OL is growing old before our eyes, that's what often happens over the course of a season with 30+ year old players across the OL (Samuels included). As their skills diminish they make errors in technique. IMO the FO was hoping the OL could hold up for this year to reload for 2009.

Bottom line is; we will have a bunch of cap freed up this off-season, we have our 1st & 3rd round picks, we have the skill players in place, Samuels should be serviceable for 2009, Rinehardt should be able to step in for Kendall, Randy Thomas will be fine, Heyer should be average at RT, Jansen will be a solid utility back-up. We need a C and either a top-notch LG or T from either the draft or FA. I've mentioned this before, I think Buges will retire after this season.

For the Defense, the secondary appears to be solid with Rogers emergence as a solid CB, Hall should be able to be re-signed and hopefully stay on the "straight & narrow". We need a RDE, a DT that can generate a pass rush, and an OLB (and also the winning lottery numbers).

Re: Until we have both an Offensive line and Defensive line we will suck....
 

[quote=Yellow31;509332]What is up with Chad Rinehart, is he any good? Hopefully he will turn out ok, if that is the case then that will be 2 possible starters for the OL in 2 years-along with Heyer, who just fell in the skins laps....Just trying to stay positive....

The DL on the other hand I cant recall the last time they drafted or picked up a decent undrafted rookie.....[/quote]

Golston, Montgomery, Alexander, Chris Wilson had 4 sacks last year, Rob Jackson saw some action yesterday

Re: Until we have both an Offensive line and Defensive line we will suck....
 

[quote=SmootSmack;509335]Golston, Montgomery, Alexander, Chris Wilson had 4 sacks last year, Rob Jackson saw some action yesterday[/quote]Those are all servicable players, but we really need a stud DL who can disrupt opposing offenses continuously. Having such a player will make our servicable players that much better. I know Reggie Whites don't grow on trees, but we need a D-lineman like that in the worst way.

Re: Until we have both an Offensive line and Defensive line we will suck....
 

[quote=SouperMeister;509338]Those are all servicable players, but we really need a stud DL who can disrupt opposing offenses continuously. Having such a player will make our servicable players that much better. I know Reggie Whites don't grow on trees, but we need a D-lineman like that in the worst way.[/quote]

Well I think Montgomery has the potential to be that guy, and Griffin was that guy though I think his better days are behind him now.

But the point is we have several players who are solid so I don't think depth is the issue. It's more so what you say, where's the difference maker?

Re: Until we have both an Offensive line and Defensive line we will suck....
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;509333]Didn't really hear too many complaints about the OL while we were 6-2. As the season is wearing on the OL is growing old before our eyes, that's what often happens over the course of a season with 30+ year old players across the OL (Samuels included). As their skills diminish they make errors in technique. IMO the FO was hoping the OL could hold up for this year to reload for 2009.

Bottom line is; we will have a bunch of cap freed up this off-season, we have our 1st & 3rd round picks, we have the skill players in place, Samuels should be serviceable for 2009, Rinehardt should be able to step in for Kendall, Randy Thomas will be fine, Heyer should be average at RT, Jansen will be a solid utility back-up. We need a C and either a top-notch LG or T from either the draft or FA. I've mentioned this before, I think Buges will retire after this season.

For the Defense, the secondary appears to be solid with Rogers emergence as a solid CB, Hall should be able to be re-signed and hopefully stay on the "straight & narrow". We need a RDE, a DT that can generate a pass rush, and an OLB (and also the winning lottery numbers).[/quote]

Alot of need w/ only a 1st and 3rd and a FA or two.

Re: Until we have both an Offensive line and Defensive line we will suck....
 

How much more athletic did the Raven's D line look vs ours? It's laughable to even compare. The Steelers? The Giants? We're not in the same league, but now we know this.

Our D is solid. Our line can stop the run, typically. They just can't get to the QB. That is a big problem.

Re: Until we have both an Offensive line and Defensive line we will suck....
 

are there any appealing free agent O or D linemen this offseason???

Re: Until we have both an Offensive line and Defensive line we will suck....
 

Full disclosure- this is a duplicate post, however I didn't realize this thread was here when I posted it originally in the "Samuels Done" thread:

I saw this posted in a comment on Redskins Insider today.

Miami's 2008 Draft (Parcells knows how to shop for groceries):

1st round: Jake Long - OT
2nd round: Merling - DE
3rd round: Langford - DT
4th round: Murphy - OT
6th round: Thomas - OG
7th round: Dotson - DE

After a 1-15 season last year, guess who the most improved team is this season? Granted Pennington is a big part of that, but The Tuna understands what butters the bread of successful NFL teams. The trenches baby.

Re: Until we have both an Offensive line and Defensive line we will suck....
 

[quote=GMScud;509690]Full disclosure- this is a duplicate post, however I didn't realize this thread was here when I posted it originally in the "Samuels Done" thread:

I saw this posted in a comment on Redskins Insider today.

Miami's 2008 Draft (Parcells knows how to shop for groceries):

1st round: Jake Long - OT
2nd round: Merling - DE
3rd round: Langford - DT
4th round: Murphy - OT
6th round: Thomas - OG
7th round: Dotson - DE

After a 1-15 season last year, guess who the most improved team is this season? Granted Pennington is a big part of that, but The Tuna understands what butters the bread of successful NFL teams. The trenches baby.[/quote]To be fair though, we had ignored our offense for years in the upper rounds of the draft prior to this year. Campbell was the last time we took an offensive player in the first five rounds of the draft.

So this draft is excusable if we address the lines next year. But if we don't, especially after having to play with offensive players in the playoffs that we found on other teams trash heaps, I don't know what we can do.

Re: Until we have both an Offensive line and Defensive line we will suck....
 

[quote=SmootSmack;509362]Well I think Montgomery has the potential to be that guy, and Griffin was that guy though I think his better days are behind him now.

But the point is we have several players who are solid so I don't think depth is the issue. It's more so what you say, where's the difference maker?[/quote]Carter and Taylor are both difference makers when healthy, but now that their both on the wrong side of thirty (and subsequently, less than healthy), I think we do have to keep an eye out in the third round for a defensive lineman that shouldn't still be around.

Re: Until we have both an Offensive line and Defensive line we will suck....
 

[quote=GTripp0012;509691]To be fair though, we had ignored our offense for years in the upper rounds of the draft prior to this year. Campbell was the last time we took an offensive player in the first five rounds of the draft.

So this draft is excusable if we address the lines next year. But if we don't, especially after having to play with offensive players in the playoffs that we found on other teams trash heaps, I don't know what we can do.[/quote]

While it's undeniable we have neglected offense in the upper round the past few years, O-lineman do count as offense, right? Just saying...

I do think it was a good move to trade with Atlanta and score three 2nd round picks, I'm standing pat on my opinion that we should NOT have used all of three of those picks on pass catchers.

Re: Until we have both an Offensive line and Defensive line we will suck....
 

[quote=GMScud;509694]While it's undeniable we have neglected offense in the upper round the past few years, O-lineman do count as offense, right? Just saying...

I do think it was a good move to trade with Atlanta and score three 2nd round picks, I'm standing pat on my opinion that we should NOT have used all of three of those picks on pass catchers.[/quote]Ha. I hear that.

I'm not disagreeing with you, especially since I know at the time that we hadn't picked up any can't miss prospects in doing so, and had passed over a pretty good DL prospect or two.

To be fair to Cerrato, it was slim pickings in terms of offensive lineman in the second round. He got all the way to the supplemental picks before having to take his guy, who was Rinehart. But he could have added a stud defensive lineman instead of picking Thomas.

Anyway, we should let it go. Either way, we were going to be kind of screwed on the offensive line this year with no real help coming in the draft where we selected. So, could have signed a veteran Center, I suppose, and instead we went with Rabach (and journeyman Geisinger). Could have not signed Randy Thomas to an extension, but we did. We had to lean heavily on Samuels, and hopefully Heyer can look not overmatched these last three games, especially against Philly.

I think we'll know a lot more about the future of the OL once we see how Heyer and Rinehart do. Either way, our first pick has to go towards a tackle, and we can't afford to miss.

Re: Until we have both an Offensive line and Defensive line we will suck....
 

[quote=SouperMeister;509338]Those are all servicable players, but we really need a stud DL who can disrupt opposing offenses continuously. Having such a player will make our servicable players that much better. I know Reggie Whites don't grow on trees, but we need a D-lineman like that in the worst way.[/quote]

Everyone on our D-line is pretty average. Montgomery has the most potential but I haven't seen it. He's in his 3rd year and it's time for him to put up or shut up. If he's going to be a dominate player than do it already. But to be honest, and I've been saying this for weeks, the d-line isn't the problem. It's the O-line that needs the major work. IMO the O-line is directly responsible for us not scoring enough points.

Re: Until we have both an Offensive line and Defensive line we will suck....
 

[quote=GTripp0012;509703]Ha. I hear that.

I'm not disagreeing with you, especially since I know at the time that we hadn't picked up any can't miss prospects in doing so, and had passed over a pretty good DL prospect or two.

To be fair to Cerrato, it was slim pickings in terms of offensive lineman in the second round. He got all the way to the supplemental picks before having to take his guy, who was Rinehart. But he could have added a stud defensive lineman instead of picking Thomas.

Anyway, we should let it go. Either way, we were going to be kind of screwed on the offensive line this year with no real help coming in the draft where we selected. So, could have signed a veteran Center, I suppose, and instead we went with Rabach (and journeyman Geisinger). Could have not signed Randy Thomas to an extension, but we did. We had to lean heavily on Samuels, and hopefully Heyer can look not overmatched these last three games, especially against Philly.

I think we'll know a lot [B]more about the future of the OL once we see how Heyer and Rinehart do. Either way, our first pick has to go towards a tackle, and we can't afford to miss[/B].[/quote]

I agree. So who do we take? Any chance Alabama's Andre Smith, Baylor's Jason Smith, or UVA's Eugene Monroe fall to us? I highly doubt Michael Oher makes it out of the 1st round.

Re: Until we have both an Offensive line and Defensive line we will suck....
 

100% true. I really hope the draft and off-season treat us well (the danny sees the light)

Re: Until we have both an Offensive line and Defensive line we will suck....
 

[quote=GTripp0012;509693]Carter and Taylor are both difference makers when healthy, but now that their both on the wrong side of thirty (and subsequently, less than healthy), I think we do have to keep an eye out in the third round for a defensive lineman that shouldn't still be around.[/quote]

Taylor was a difference maker. He's simply not anymore. Carter simply doesn't have the burst or explosiveness as some of the top pass rushers.

Re: Until we have both an Offensive line and Defensive line we will suck....
 

[quote=skinsfan69;509715]Taylor was a difference maker. He's simply not anymore. Carter simply doesn't have the burst or explosiveness as some of the top pass rushers.[/quote]Even this year, Carter can kill some of the top tackles in the league. Can't get sacks though if the offense is just turning the ball short all day long against heavy blitz.

Taylor probably is done with 16 game healthy seasons, and was a moronic use of a second round draft pick ESPECIALLY for a team with Andre Carter, but he has played really well against the pass in Carter's abscence, and his 8 passes deflected probably lead the NFL.

Taylor is just totally useless against the run, so you can't justify having him on the field unless he's rushing the passer like he has been the last two games.

Re: Until we have both an Offensive line and Defensive line we will suck....
 

How many more post we should go through of bench JC bring in Colt, or talk about how shitty our line is. Yes the line is crappy but it could be worse.

Re: Until we have both an Offensive line and Defensive line we will suck....
 

[quote=prinzeofmoval;509736]How many more post we should go through of bench JC bring in Colt, or talk about how shitty our line is. Yes the line is crappy but it could be worse.[/quote]Yes, but I'm thinking the real question is who should replace Brennan at QB when he doesn't set the world on fire.

C'mon, we're a proactive bunch. Tebow? Colt McCoy? We already know that Brennan is a has been with this crappy offense around him, so we need to find a replacement fast.

Re: Until we have both an Offensive line and Defensive line we will suck....
 

McCoy just announced he's staying at Texas in 09. So he won't do...

Re: Until we have both an Offensive line and Defensive line we will suck....
 

[quote=GTripp0012;509720][B]Even this year, Carter can kill some of the top tackles in the league. [/B]Can't get sacks though if the offense is just turning the ball short all day long against heavy blitz.

Taylor probably is done with 16 game healthy seasons, and was a moronic use of a second round draft pick ESPECIALLY for a team with Andre Carter, but he has played really well against the pass in Carter's abscence, and his 8 passes deflected probably lead the NFL.

Taylor is just totally useless against the run, so you can't justify having him on the field unless he's rushing the passer like he has been the last two games.[/quote]

I'm not sure what you're looking at but Carter doesn't kill anyone. All he ever does is try and run around the LT. He never changes up his moves. He can't bull rush cause he isn't strong enough. Harrison, Ware, Tuck Peppers....those guys are killing people this year.

Re: Until we have both an Offensive line and Defensive line we will suck....
 

[quote=GTripp0012;509739]Yes, but I'm thinking the real question is who should replace Brennan at QB when he doesn't set the world on fire.

C'mon, we're a proactive bunch. Tebow? Colt McCoy? We already know that Brennan is a has been with this crappy offense around him, so we need to find a replacement fast.[/quote]

No Nick Montana from Oak Christian out here in California. Joe's kid and Will Smiths son is torching them out here. Colt wont start til sometime next season if then. He'll go two years before we want his head by then Nick can leave college.lol

Re: Until we have both an Offensive line and Defensive line we will suck....
 

[quote=prinzeofmoval;509736]How many more post we should go through of bench JC bring in Colt, or talk about how shitty our line is. Yes the line is crappy but it could be worse.[/quote]

I hope you are joking. Otherwise you are the joke.

Re: Until we have both an Offensive line and Defensive line we will suck....
 

[quote=skinsfan69;509705]Everyone on our D-line is pretty average. Montgomery has the most potential but I haven't seen it. He's in his 3rd year and it's time for him to put up or shut up. If he's going to be a dominate player than do it already. [B]But to be honest, and I've been saying this for weeks, the d-line isn't the problem. It's the O-line that needs the major work. IMO the O-line is directly responsible for us not scoring enough points[/B].[/quote]

I completely agree. Although we may not get the sacks...our D is very good. Our primary concern in the draft/free agency has got to be the O line. When JC has time he is good!!

Re: Until we have both an Offensive line and Defensive line we will suck....
 

[quote=skinsfan69;509798]I'm not sure what you're looking at but Carter doesn't kill anyone. All he ever does is try and run around the LT. He never changes up his moves. He can't bull rush cause he isn't strong enough. Harrison, Ware, Tuck Peppers....those guys are killing people this year.[/quote]This is true I think, but I think his play diagnosis has gotten so good at DE that he can read draw and not go upfield too far. Now that he can do that, I say more power to him if he wants to use speed moves on every play to go inside or outside the tackle instead of through him.

There's no doubt that it took some time to get him re-acclimated to Defensive End in the NFL. But if anything, he's better than last year, is all I'm saying.

Re: Until we have both an Offensive line and Defensive line we will suck....
 

[quote=GTripp0012;509847]This is true I think, but I think his play diagnosis has gotten so good at DE that he can read draw and not go upfield too far. Now that he can do that, I say more power to him if he wants to use speed moves on every play to go inside or outside the tackle instead of through him.

There's no doubt that it took some time to get him re-acclimated to Defensive End in the NFL. But if anything, he's better than last year, is all I'm saying.[/quote]

Carter is a average DE and a slightly above average DE on a good day. He seems to play the run ok, I believe, but is limited in his pass rushing. He wouldn't be starting in NYG, Dal, or Philly most likely. Would he? He just seems ultra slow this year for some reason.

Re: Until we have both an Offensive line and Defensive line we will suck....
 

[quote=GTripp0012;509847]This is true I think, but I think his play diagnosis has gotten so good at DE that he can read draw and not go upfield too far. Now that he can do that, I say more power to him if he wants to use speed moves on every play to go inside or outside the tackle instead of through him.

There's no doubt that it took some time to get him re-acclimated to Defensive End in the NFL. [B]But if anything, he's better than last year, is all I'm saying[/B].[/quote]

Is it possible for him to be better this year despite having less of a tangible impact (stats-wise)? How come the sacks are way down?

Re: Until we have both an Offensive line and Defensive line we will suck....
 

I normally don't like Michael Wilbon's articles, however this sums it up pretty darn well (and takes a nice shot at all the simpleton's who suggest benching JC is the solution).

[url=http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/12/08/AR2008120803484.html]washingtonpost.com[/url]

Re: Until we have both an Offensive line and Defensive line we will suck....
 

[quote=GTripp0012;509106]With the offensive line, remember just how good the Ravens pass rush is.

Defensive line...I felt they played well today, but I'll reserve further judgement until I look at the tape. I didn't feel like we got outcoached on defense watching the game, that's for sure.[/quote]

They ran that off balanced line effectively against us because they were attacking small DE Andre Carter. Teams are picking on him non-stop. He is the weak link.

Re: Until we have both an Offensive line and Defensive line we will suck....
 

when portis was healthy earlier in the season our o line looked good. I think his decline in carries and yards make the line look worse than it is. Coverage has been getting tighter on our recievers because teams are not fearing the run. JC needs to step up in the pocket where he can be better protected. Our D line still looks OK but we definatly need a play maker or two here.

Re: Until we have both an Offensive line and Defensive line we will suck....
 

[quote=GTripp0012;509847]This is true I think, but I think his play diagnosis has gotten so good at DE that he can read draw and not go upfield too far. Now that he can do that, I say more power to him if he wants to use speed moves on every play to go inside or outside the tackle instead of through him.

There's no doubt that it took some time to get him re-acclimated to Defensive End in the NFL. But if anything, he's better than last year, is all I'm saying.[/quote]

What has changed in his game play from the 11 sacks he had last year to the three he has this year?

Re: Until we have both an Offensive line and Defensive line we will suck....
 

[quote=Beemnseven;509869]What has changed in his game play from the 11 sacks he had last year to the three he has this year?[/quote]We blitz six+ players about once every three passes. 94% of the times on these plays, the Redskins cannot sack the QB. This suggests that despite the extra guys coming at the QB, offenses have adjusted to either 1) pick up the blitz, or 2) run a hot route to get the ball out quick.

Our blitzes don't surprise anyone, so teams are very prepared for them. Obviously, this limits the value of a pass rushing defensive end when #1) you force them to rush a certain gap, and #2) the quarterback isn't going to hold the ball long enough for someone outside the tackle box to be a major factor.

Re: Until we have both an Offensive line and Defensive line we will suck....
 

[quote=GMScud;509858]Is it possible for him to be better this year despite having less of a tangible impact (stats-wise)? How come the sacks are way down?[/quote]See above.

If the tangible impact is limited to sacks, then his production is down, but when you consider the way he forces weaker QBs to alter their deliveries with pressure, then I would argue his tangible production is up.

Re: Until we have both an Offensive line and Defensive line we will suck....
 

[quote=Defensewins;509861]They ran that off balanced line effectively against us because they were attacking small DE Andre Carter. Teams are picking on him non-stop. He is the weak link.[/quote]Carter was not in the game for most of the day. And even when he was in for Taylor at the end, the success they had at the end of the game occurred, [B]in my opinion[/B], because of shoddy tackling by Mike Green and Rocky McIntosh more than anything.

I promise to watch to see if Carter is getting blown off the ball in the final drive of the game.

Re: Until we have both an Offensive line and Defensive line we will suck....
 

Agreed, we are right on target for 8-8.

Re: Until we have both an Offensive line and Defensive line we will suck....
 

Charles Casserly says that Stacey Andrews is the best young tackle, available. Also says will be very hard to sign because every team out there knows it and his brother plays for the eagles. Casserly say he will probably end up there. He is a mountain of a man, at 6-7 342. I am editing this, because the everything I read about Andrews is bad. Casserly never has been all that great at evaulting talent any way. Just look at the Skins and the Texans. He is also unlucky. The best move he ever made, taking Williams over Bush, probably forced him to resign