Re: Questions that might effect the DRAFT
 

[quote=The Goat;518041]While i'm thinking mostly positive thoughts about '09, can't help but say that lineup looks like a recipe for disaster. Obviously Samuels will come back strong. But Rinehart as a starter when there is no evidence whatsoever he can play at a high level. Remember he played small ball in college and hasn't earned enough confidence to take a snap all year. Rabach is at best an average center. I'd like to think Thomas had a down year and will return strong but the neck injury could be serious so he's a wait and see. And then Heyer. Jeez. One of the worst run blockers i saw all year. Massive upper body covered in baby fat and legs that seem to struggle to hold his own weight, let alone move a DE or DT around. Honestly if this is our lineup next season looks scary.

As to the critics of a top OT @ 13, Samuels won't play forever. Let the young stud take over the RT position w/ the intent of moving to LT in a few years. Give time for Rinehart to develop or draft another franchise RT down the road. Either way a monster at tackle is a position you can build the offense around (aside from QB). Three teams did it last year: drafted OTs in the 1st round and had em start all season (Miami, Denver and I forget the third at present). IMHO we need to stop dickering around w/ "potential talent" or "diamonds in the rough" when it comes to the lines (o-line especially right now).[B] Just grab the top talent and start to build a team around a dominant line[/B].[/quote]
With some of the talent in this draft it's easy to get distracted. I just hope we don't lose sight of what we need to do. A dominant line would be a beautiful, beautiful thing.

Re: Questions that might effect the DRAFT
 

[quote=30gut;517971]I think that ^^ line wouldn't be much better then the line we had last year.

Dude where's Pete??

When you consider that Pete played well and stayed healthy all year, i'd say he was our best lineman last year.

Why would you want to bring back Thomas who struggled and is having offseason surgery?

A defensive tackle at pick 13? Why?[/quote]

We need to get younger on the line man. I hate to let Kendall go but he's 35. Thomas has played pretty well and I think if we cut him we'll take a hit. Honestly bro I think we will trade out and get more picks but if we're staying there I'm certain our pick will be on defense D- lineman, or LB.

Re: Questions that might effect the DRAFT
 

[quote=RMSkins;517695]I would like to see our o-line lineup look like this:

LT Samuels LG Kendall C Rabach RG Thomas RT Rookie

Backups: Jansen, Rinehart, Clark, Rabach.[/quote]

I like this with a few minor changes.

LT Samuels LG Kendall or Rinehart C Rookie RG Thomas RT Rookie or FA signing

Re: Questions that might effect the DRAFT
 

[quote=Larry Michael is Satan;518048]I think it is really foolish to be counting on Kendall OR Rinehardt at LG next year. Kendall is going to be 36 I think, and has arthritic knees. Rinehardt, I actually recall hearing about him getting repeatedly blown up in training camp, and the fact that we were desperate for O-line this year, and he was never even active tells me he has a long way to go. [B]I think we need to draft a starting LG as badly as we need a starting RT.[/B] We need quality players, not just bodies. Better have somebody ready to step in for Casey also. Good luck Vinny.[/quote]

While he's aging Jansen probably plays well on the interior and can be a force at either guard position. Just an idea since he's a guaranteed hold-over but now lacks the lateral agility to be a great RT.

Re: Questions that might effect the DRAFT
 

I'm trying, but I can't find any reason to get excited about the Texas-Ohio State match-up. It's like these two teams are running in jell-o.

Re: Questions that might effect the DRAFT
 

After reading about the cap, (I must admit that I didn't know too much about it until this year) it's almost certain that most of these guys are going to be back next year as far as the O-line is concerned. If they trade up or trade down, quaility or quantity isn't a big issue with me as long as they see that it's a problem and try to address it with the draft and FA. We shouldn't neglect our defense either. Being able to do both of these things is near impossible in one off season. Next year we'll be posting about how we need a new running back after Clinton Portis collapses from exhaustion.
I like the idea of trading down and getting Robinson. I'm hoping we'll pick up Everrett Brown. I don't care if he's not built for our kind of offense. We'll have to wait and see. As long as they don't trade all of our picks for mercenaries and actually pick someone then I'll be happy.

Re: Questions that might effect the DRAFT
 

[quote=MeanEvilSkin;518076]I'm trying, but I can't find any reason to get excited about the Texas-Ohio State match-up. It's like these two teams are running in jell-o.[/quote]

I wanted to see how Boone would do against Orakpo. Looked like he was doing alright the last I saw but I lost interest and forgot it was still on.

Re: Questions that might effect the DRAFT
 

Do you think we should be drafting lineman from teams that run a west coast offense or do you think that any lineman can be trained to play in it??

Re: Questions that might effect the DRAFT
 

[quote=Trample the Elderly;518082]After reading about the cap, (I must admit that I didn't know too much about it until this year) it's almost certain that most of these guys are going to be back next year as far as the O-line is concerned. If they trade up or trade down, quaility or quantity isn't a big issue with me as long as they see that it's a problem and try to address it with the draft and FA. We shouldn't neglect our defense either. Being able to do both of these things is near impossible in one off season. Next year we'll be posting about how we need a new running back after Clinton Portis collapses from exhaustion.
I like the idea of trading down and getting Robinson. [B]I'm hoping we'll pick up Everrett Brown. I don't care if he's not built for our kind of offense.[/B] We'll have to wait and see. As long as they don't trade all of our picks for mercenaries and actually pick someone then I'll be happy.[/quote]

Isn't he the DT from FSU?

Re: Questions that might effect the DRAFT
 

[quote=WaldSkins;518116]Isn't he the DT from FSU?[/quote]

DE from FSU. Yeah.

Re: Questions that might effect the DRAFT
 

i see it like this, if we release Marcus Washington, then our first round pick will be a linebacker. If we retain him I can see this pick being either O or D linemen.

Re: Questions that might effect the DRAFT
 

[quote=T.O.Killa;518047]I have heard allot about how bad Thomas was many times here at the Warpath. The fact is, that I cant tell if it is true or not, but he is a pro bowl alternate. I never really thought he played bad. I think to the normal football fan, it is allot harder for us to tell if interior linemen are doing their job. When it came to Jansen it was obvious that he was struggling.[/quote]

[quote=Larry Michael is Satan;518048]I think it is really foolish to be counting on Kendall OR Rinehardt at LG next year. Kendall is going to be 36 I think, and has arthritic knees. Rinehardt, I actually recall hearing about him getting repeatedly blown up in training camp, and the fact that we were desperate for O-line this year, and he was never even active tells me he has a long way to go. I think we need to draft a starting LG as badly as we need a starting RT. We need quality players, not just bodies. Better have somebody ready to step in for Casey also. Good luck Vinny.[/quote]

Kendall is old but he played well last year AND he wants to return next year. I'm just using the eye-ball test from watching games this season (and re-watching in most cases) and i remember Thomas getting beat and pushed back or missing a block more often then Kendall. And Kendall didn't miss a game. He is not a long term answer but IMO is a better short term answer then Thomas.

If i was rating the line play i'd have it like this:
Samuels
Kendall
Rabach
Heyer
Jansen
Thomas
Fabini
Rinehart??
Geisinger??
Devin Clark??

I have a hard time beleiving that Rinehart was somehow not ready to play.
I [B]distinctly remember [/B]how people and coaches raved about Rinehart all summer and pre-season then don't play him, even when their were injuries. This makes no sense to me. The Redskins reluctance to play rookies and stick with veterans is mind boggling. IMO if you put in an old guy and they struggle its only gonna get worse but, if you play a young guy at least they can improve. IMO you can't wait on rookies anymore, more then ever the time is now in the NFL, so many other teams were forced to play their rookie or young back-up lineman and their offensive lines didn't miss a beat in many cases it improved.

Allowing Jansen to struggle, then playing Fabini, who was decent at G last year, at T when he was hurt didn't make sense. Especially since Fabini was terrible there why not out in the kid? He seriously couldn't have play any worse.

My thoughts for next year's line:
[B][COLOR="DarkOliveGreen"]Samuels LT, Rinehart LG, Rabach C, Kendall RG, *Rookie RT*
+*Rookie* Center[/COLOR][/B]

Re: Questions that might effect the DRAFT
 

[quote=53Fan;518111]I wanted to see how Boone would do against Orakpo. Looked like he was doing alright the last I saw but I lost interest and forgot it was still on.[/quote]

I made a point to watch Orakpo. He did OK but it looked to my old eyes that he took some plays off and didn't pursue the way I expected. He certainly doesn't have the motor of Everette Brown who, IMO, is the better player.

I didn't know that Alex Boone was a top prospect until I read this thread this morning, but he definitely caught my eye during the game. I thought he played very well against Orakpo.

Re: Questions that might effect the DRAFT
 

[quote=KI Skins Fan;518157]I made a point to watch Orakpo. He did OK but it looked to my old eyes that he took some plays off and didn't pursue the way I expected. He certainly doesn't have the motor of Everette Brown who, IMO, is the better player.

I didn't know that Alex Boone was a top prospect until I read this thread this morning, but he definitely caught my eye during the game. I thought he played very well against Orakpo.[/quote]

Boone is projected to go around the 5th round. I was just hoping maybe we could get a decent linemen with that pick.

Re: Questions that might effect the DRAFT
 

[quote=53Fan;518171]Boone is projected to go around the 5th round.[B] I was just hoping maybe we could get a decent linemen with that pick.[/quote][/B]

Its happened before bro

Re: Questions that might effect the DRAFT
 

I agree in regards to Kendall, but it perpetuates the problem of this old-line. Definitely need to give these young guys a fair shot next year and despite Heyer starting over Jansen at the beginning of the season I still think Joe Bugle has a strong tendency of leaning towards veterans.

Re: Questions that might effect the DRAFT
 

Trade down to get get Knowshon Moreno and a second round pick
Then draft a C that can play guard: Alex Mack, Max Unger...
Attempt to get Portis to restructure so he can get traded...

Re: Questions that might effect the DRAFT
 

If Taylor Mays falls to 13, you grab him. Horton's been a pleasant surprise, but Mays is the closest prototype to a Sean Taylor-potential safety since Swoop... 6-3, 235 and runs a 4.2. Fast as a gazelle and hits like a truck.

* Edit: SC insiders are now saying he's actually going to stay for his senior year. Wow... this dude was a lock to go top 15.

Re: Questions that might effect the DRAFT
 

everyone repeat after me, we need lineman. not the best available, lineman. on both sides of the ball. and lineman that aren't projects. lineman that are expected to step up and play, right away

Re: Questions that might effect the DRAFT
 

[quote=WaldSkins;518116]Isn't he the DT from FSU?[/quote]

Yeah I screwed that up. I was told he was built for a 3-4 DEFFENSE and wouldn't work on ours.

Re: Questions that might effect the DRAFT
 

[quote=dmek25;519101]everyone repeat after me, we need lineman. not the best available, lineman. on both sides of the ball. and lineman that aren't projects. lineman that are expected to step up and play, right away[/quote]

That's what I'm screaming.

Re: Questions that might effect the DRAFT
 

[quote=dmek25;519101]everyone repeat after me, we need lineman. not the best available, lineman. on both sides of the ball. and lineman that aren't projects. lineman that are expected to step up and play, right away[/quote]

Depending on the picks of teams before us, what if that lineman left at 13 isn't projected on our board to step in right away... and by some stroke of good fortune, nobody took the top rated safety (who coincidentally will grade out as the best safety prospect since Swoop) by then?

The FO had in mind who they wanted last season in the first round (linemen, btw)... but they weren't willing to settle for someone piddling in the middle of their board just b/c their targets were all snatched up early.

Re: Questions that might effect the DRAFT
 

[quote=itvnetop;519250]Depending on the picks of teams before us, what if that lineman left at 13 isn't projected on our board to step in right away... and by some stroke of good fortune, nobody took the top rated safety (who coincidentally will grade out as the best safety prospect since Swoop) by then?

The FO had in mind who they wanted last season in the first round (linemen, btw)... but they weren't willing to settle for someone piddling in the middle of their board just b/c their targets were all snatched up early.[/quote]

Where exactly are you hearing this about Mays?

Re: Questions that might effect the DRAFT
 

[quote=itvnetop;519250]Depending on the picks of teams before us, what if that lineman left at 13 isn't projected on our board to step in right away... and by some stroke of good fortune, nobody took the top rated safety (who coincidentally will grade out as the best safety prospect since Swoop) by then?

The FO had in mind who they wanted last season in the first round (linemen, btw)... but they weren't willing to settle for someone piddling in the middle of their board just b/c their targets were all snatched up early.[/quote]

Yep, Mays is the second coming of ST and the Niners will probably get him if he's on the board. He's 6'3" 230LB, hits hard and runs in the 4.4 in the 40, reports of 4.3 speed have been mentioned.

Re: Questions that might effect the DRAFT
 

[quote=itvnetop;519250]Depending on the picks of teams before us, what if that lineman left at 13 isn't projected on our board to step in right away... and by some stroke of good fortune, nobody took the top rated safety (who coincidentally will grade out as the best safety prospect since Swoop) by then?

The FO had in mind who they wanted last season in the first round (linemen, btw)... but they weren't willing to settle for someone piddling in the middle of their board just b/c their targets were all snatched up early.[/quote]

I think Mays is a beast, but how would he help [I]this[/I] Redskins team?

We're good at safety. Mays would probably be an upgrade over Horton but by how much? IMO he's not a big enough improvement to warrant passing on an offensive lineman, defensive lineman or linebacker.

Re: Questions that might effect the DRAFT
 

[quote=SmootSmack;519404]Where exactly are you hearing this about Mays?[/quote]

Er, the part about Mays grading out or him possibly staying at SC? The grading out part is just my conjecture lol. Him possibly staying is from a few inside sources on the SC forum (usually very credible)... but I think he's now seeing the possibility that his stock may just rise even more during the combine. Plus, he got one of those NFL draft evaluations so I'm thinking he knows what's up.

Re: Questions that might effect the DRAFT
 

[quote=SFREDSKIN;519406]Yep, Mays is the second coming of ST and the Niners will probably get him if he's on the board. He's 6'3" 230LB, hits hard and runs in the 4.4 in the 40, reports of 4.3 speed have been mentioned.[/quote]

Actually, there are many reports that he's gone sub-4.3. The players say he's the fastest dude on the team... a freakin' safety running faster than all our 5-star corners, backs and receivers.. wow.

Re: Questions that might effect the DRAFT
 

[quote=itvnetop;519509]Er, the part about Mays grading out or him possibly staying at SC? The grading out part is just my conjecture lol. Him possibly staying is from a few inside sources on the SC forum (usually very credible)... but I think he's now seeing the possibility that his stock may just rise even more during the combine. Plus, he got one of those NFL draft evaluations so I'm thinking he knows what's up.[/quote]

How he grades out, because I got to tell ya what I've heard is that a lot of front office personnel and scouts aren't as high on him, later in the first round possibly early second is what they're thinking.

Would like to get your thoughts on Moala though.

Re: Questions that might effect the DRAFT
 

[quote=SmootSmack;519570]How he grades out, because I got to tell ya what I've heard is that a lot of front office personnel and scouts aren't as high on him, later in the first round possibly early second is what they're thinking.

Would like to get your thoughts on Moala though.[/quote]

Really? Wow... do you have any specific stuff they're saying about him? Just about of us SC guys think he's the absolute truth. Physically, he's just about as superior as you can get and his coverage has gotten better each year. I think the one knock I could see is that he really truly hasn't been tested on an island yet- there was so much talent in our secondary this season, it seemed he had backup wherever he went (thus able to blast people up without fear of whiffing). I'm truly curious as to why scouts aren't too keen on him.

Moala is the enigma. I remember some people had him as a top pick before last season started, but he was inconsistent throughout the year. He's not too quick upfield, but he's really good in run defense (can handle the double-teams fairly well). Out of the last few DT entries from SC, he definitely doesn't have the potential of Ellis or Patterson. He needs to improve his technique, but I think playing in our defense has him ready play at the next level.

Re: Questions that might effect the DRAFT
 

Haven't really heard any specifics, just that some NFL folk think he will fall. I think there are some intangibles at play, does he read offenses well?

Re: Questions that might effect the DRAFT
 

[quote=30gut;519417]I think Mays is a beast, but how would he help [I]this[/I] Redskins team?

We're good at safety. Mays would probably be an upgrade over Horton but by how much? IMO he's not a big enough improvement to warrant passing on an offensive lineman, defensive lineman or linebacker.[/quote]Mays makes sense if we decide to make the Cobra package our base defense. If we are dead set on doing that, it makes more sense than waiting for Kareem Moore to develop in that role. That would eliminate the need for a pass rushing OLB.

But even though the Cobra formation is something that Blache, not Williams, created, I don't give Blache enough credit to not fall back into the comfort of the 4-3, which would essentially put Horton on the bench for most of the game. We wouldn't use Mays enough to make it work.

Re: Questions that might effect the DRAFT
 

[quote=GTripp0012;519585]Mays makes sense if we decide to make the Cobra package our base defense. If we are dead set on doing that, it makes more sense than waiting for Kareem Moore to develop in that role. That would eliminate the need for a pass rushing OLB.

But even though the Cobra formation is something that Blache, not Williams, created, I don't give Blache enough credit to not fall back into the comfort of the 4-3, which would essentially put Horton on the bench for most of the game. We wouldn't use Mays enough to make it work.[/quote]

(I'm a big fan of the cobra)
I wonder if it actually was Blache that came up with the Cobra package, my guess would be Gray/Jackson. If Mays falls to the 13th spot it just wouldn't make sense to take him.

IMO if Blache really wanted to use the Cobra package more they could do it with any combo of: Landry, Horton, Moore(who Blache really likes), Doughty and Springs (if he returns).
Vinnie or Blache or Gray/Jackson or whoever is behind the drafting the safety postion has been doing a good job if they want another safety they could likely find another gem later on.

Re: Questions that might effect the DRAFT
 

[quote=itvnetop;519578]Really? Wow... do you have any specific stuff they're saying about him? Just about of us SC guys think he's the absolute truth. Physically, he's just about as superior as you can get and his coverage has gotten better each year. I think the one knock I could see is that he really truly hasn't been tested on an island yet- there was so much talent in our secondary this season, it seemed he had backup wherever he went (thus able to blast people up without fear of whiffing). I'm truly curious as to why scouts aren't too keen on him.

Moala is the enigma. I remember some people had him as a top pick before last season started, but he was inconsistent throughout the year. He's not too quick upfield, but he's really good in run defense (can handle the double-teams fairly well). Out of the last few DT entries from SC, he definitely doesn't have the potential of Ellis or Patterson. He needs to improve his technique, but I think playing in our defense has him ready play at the next level.[/quote]

Got a little more specifics, biggest concern is for every big play he makes, there are three or four smaller plays or assignments that he misses and those add up.

But that's not to say he can't or won't go high, these guys could be wrong. This is a select few people out of many. They say things based on a combination of where they think someone should go and where they think he will, and sometimes (most times) they're pretty accurate. Other times they can be way off

Re: Questions that might effect the DRAFT
 

[quote=itvnetop;519578]Really? Wow... do you have any specific stuff they're saying about him? Just about of us SC guys think he's the absolute truth. Physically, he's just about as superior as you can get and his coverage has gotten better each year. I think the one knock I could see is that he really truly hasn't been tested on an island yet- there was so much talent in our secondary this season, it seemed he had backup wherever he went (thus able to blast people up without fear of whiffing). I'm truly curious as to why scouts aren't too keen on him.

Moala is the enigma. I remember some people had him as a top pick before last season started, but he was inconsistent throughout the year. He's not too quick upfield, but he's really good in run defense (can handle the double-teams fairly well). Out of the last few DT entries from SC, he definitely doesn't have the potential of Ellis or Patterson. He needs to improve his technique, but I think playing in our defense has him ready play at the next level.[/quote]

Because I like you I spoke to one of their teammate's today to get some more scouting:

Maualuga: Should be a top 5 pick, most complete player he's ever played with.

Cushing: Somewhat overlooked playing along side Maualuga, not as football smart as you'd like. Gets by on physical skills too much, may not translate to the NFL right away

Moala: Absolute beast, manhandles opponents, deceptively quick. Smart too. Needs to tighten up on some of the fundamentals though

Matthews: Overachiever, hasn't really found a position he excels at. Jack off all trades, master of none type

Mays: (direct quote) "Eh, he's good I guess. But he's nothing special" Makes too many mistakes, inconsistent, average practice player, and lots of off-field issues (didn't say what)

Re: Questions that might effect the DRAFT
 

[quote=SmootSmack;519923]Because I like you I spoke to one of their teammate's today to get some more scouting:

Maualuga: Should be a top 5 pick, most complete player he's ever played with.

Cushing: Somewhat overlooked playing along side Maualuga, not as football smart as you'd like. Gets by on physical skills too much, may not translate to the NFL right away

Moala: Absolute beast, manhandles opponents, deceptively quick. Smart too. Needs to tighten up on some of the fundamentals though

Matthews: Overachiever, hasn't really found a position he excels at. Jack off all trades, master of none type

Mays: (direct quote) "Eh, he's good I guess. But he's nothing special" Makes too many mistakes, inconsistent, average practice player, and lots of off-field issues (didn't say what)[/quote]

Dude.. thanks for the scoops, brotha! Everybody's been hyped on Rey Rey, but I didn't really believe until this season- he was extremely prone to overshooting his assignments his first few seasons and leaving his zones. He's finally been able to shore that aspect of his game up, so now he's not just a headhunter.

I've actually read some reviews comparing Mays to Roy Williams, so I hope that doesn't come true.

Re: Questions that might effect the DRAFT
 

[quote=itvnetop;519936]Dude.. thanks for the scoops, brotha! Everybody's been hyped on Rey Rey, but I didn't really believe until this season- he was extremely prone to overshooting his assignments his first few seasons and leaving his zones. He's finally been able to shore that aspect of his game up, so now he's not just a headhunter.

I've actually read some reviews comparing Mays to Roy Williams, so I hope that doesn't come true.[/quote]

Well, regardless, your love affair with Taylor Mays will have to wait at least one more year. Pete Carroll said earlier today that Taylor Mays, Josh Pinkard, and CJ Gable are all returning to school next year. Good news for Trojans fans.

[url=http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/28638792/]Mays returning to USC for another season - College football- nbcsports.msnbc.com[/url]

Re: Questions that might effect the DRAFT
 

[quote=GMScud;520074]Well, regardless, your love affair with Taylor Mays will have to wait at least one more year. Pete Carroll said earlier today that Taylor Mays, Josh Pinkard, and CJ Gable are all returning to school next year. Good news for Trojans fans.

[url=http://nbcsports.msnbc.com/id/28638792/]Mays returning to USC for another season - College football- nbcsports.msnbc.com[/url][/quote]

That's awesome news... our defense should still be pretty top notch.

"Love affair?" If I have a love affair with Mays, you have a mancrush on Percy Harvin. I really hope we can't meet you guys next season to settle it on the field. Screw the BCS.

Re: Questions that might effect the DRAFT
 

[quote=itvnetop;520184]That's awesome news... our defense should still be pretty top notch.

"Love affair?" If I have a love affair with Mays, you have a mancrush on Percy Harvin. I really hope we can't meet you guys next season to settle it on the field. Screw the BCS.[/quote]

It was a joke dude. And yes, I will openly admit my mancrush on Percy Harvin. That said, I don't think we should use a draft pick on him. Too many other pressing needs.

I would love to play you guys as well. Bring it. It would be a great game. I wonder what Sanchez is gonna do...

Re: Questions that might effect the DRAFT
 

[quote=GMScud;520185]It was a joke dude. And yes, I will openly admit my mancrush on Percy Harvin. That said, I don't think we should use a draft pick on him. Too many other pressing needs.

I would love to play you guys as well. Bring it. It would be a great game. I wonder what Sanchez is gonna do...[/quote]

I've been hearing he's leaning towards the draft. I think he should stay because we've got all our offensive weapons back- he'd improve his draft stock for sure.

I think Tebow made the right decision to stay... I think the country would love an SC-UF matchup at the end of next year.

Re: Questions that might effect the DRAFT
 

[quote=itvnetop;520204]I've been hearing he's leaning towards the draft. I think he should stay because we've got all our offensive weapons back- he'd improve his draft stock for sure.

I think Tebow made the right decision to stay... I think the country would love an SC-UF matchup at the end of next year.[/quote]

[url=http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/draft09/news/story?id=3833465]Sources: USC QB Mark Sanchez plans to enter NFL draft - ESPN[/url]

I've heard San Fran really likes him