Re: The Real Problem of the Redskins ...
 

The only thing that keeps Snyder from being a great owner is his relationship with Vinny. His unwillingness to fire Vinny and hire a better personel man is what holds the team back. Even Jerry Jones has won when he has had Bill Parcels or Jimmy Johnson next to him helping him be a GM. Snyder has never had that because he sticks with Vinny. Basically...his involvement is not the problem...it's who he's involved with.

Re: The Real Problem of the Redskins ...
 

[quote=GMScud;519833]No, but Jerry Jones hasn't done shit in 12 or 13 seasons, he knows people are super-skeptical of his meddlesome role(s) with the Cowgirls, yet he still publicly flexes his owner/GM/pseudo-head coach muscles every chance he gets.

You don't see any of that from Danny, despite being such a supposed "ego-maniac." I think that was the point Matty was driving at.[/quote]

Hasnt done shit?! Havent the Girls won a few Super Bowls with him as owner or is my time line off?

Re: The Real Problem of the Redskins ...
 

[quote=Mattyk72;519828]I'm sure the level of involvement of owners around the league varies greatly. But considering that Snyder and Vinny have more than just a business relationship and are friends, that probably explains the constant contact.

[B]And again, nobody is denying that Snyder is involved. It's the level of involvement that is highly debatable.[/B][/quote]

This is not directed at you, it is more of just a general point.

People who choose to defend Vinny and Danny always want to turn the discussion into a 'level of involvement' and 'we can not tell who made this move or that move. We really cannot tell who is in charge so we can not blame Vinny and Danny.'
But yet we can see by the teams performance on the field in 2008 that this team's FO did not do a "great job".
We have not been a consistent winner under Snyder's ownership. Bottom line that is the measure of the FO. Our FO has not performed well regardless of who is to blame.

Re: The Real Problem of the Redskins ...
 

[quote=celts32;519838]The only thing that keeps Snyder from being a great owner is his relationship with Vinny. His unwillingness to fire Vinny and hire a better personel man is what holds the team back. Even Jerry Jones has won when he has had Bill Parcels or Jimmy Johnson next to him helping him be a GM. Snyder has never had that because he sticks with Vinny. Basically...his involvement is not the problem...it's who he's involved with.[/quote]

Great point, kind of. But the argument revolves around Snyders involvment. Parcells or JJ. Would come here because of it. Which adds to the original argument.

Re: The Real Problem of the Redskins ...
 

[quote=Defensewins;519840]This is not directed at you, it is more of just a general point.

People who choose to defend Vinny and Danny always want to turn the discussion into a 'level of involvement' and 'we can not tell who made this move or that move. We really cannot tell who is in charge so we can not blame Vinny and Danny.'
But yet we can see by the teams performance on the field in 2008 that this team's FO did not do a "great job".
We have not been a consistent winner under Snyder's ownership. Bottom line that is the measure of the FO. Our FO has not performed well regardless of who is to blame.[/quote]

I agree. The strange thing is that Skins fans view DS or VC in charge instead of Zorn. In every other NFL city I have lived in the coach is the one who is in charge and the owner/GM are these guys in the background that are rarely ever in the news. When the Skins finally allow the coach to be the one in charge the organizatiion will be better off.

Re: The Real Problem of the Redskins ...
 

[quote=irish;519839]Hasnt done shit?! Havent the Girls won a few Super Bowls with him as owner or is my time line off?[/quote]

They haven't won a playoff game since 1996. That's 12 or 13 seasons, or is my math off?? So yeah, I'll repeat myself, Jerry Jones and the Cowboys haven't done shit in 12 or 13 seasons.

The Redskins have won 3 Super Bowls as a franchise. Only an idiot fan would bring up those past victories as a defense for criticism of the current situation. Same goes for Dallas.

Re: The Real Problem of the Redskins ...
 

[quote=GMScud;519843]They haven't won a playoff game since 1996. That's 12 or 13 seasons, or is my math off?? So yeah, I'll repeat myself, Jerry Jones and the Cowboys haven't done shit in 12 or 13 seasons.

The Redskins have won 3 Super Bowls as a franchise. Only an idiot fan would bring up those past victories as a defense for criticism of the current situation. Same goes for Dallas.[/quote]
Well it was also JJ who won 3 SB's running the team as he does today so he has had success.

Re: The Real Problem of the Redskins ...
 

[quote=44ever;519841]Great point, kind of. But the argument revolves around Snyders involvment. Parcells or JJ. Would come here because of it. Which adds to the original argument.[/quote]

Snyder is very persuasive when it comes to getting people to work for him so i don't think that is as big an issue as people make it out to be. What Snyder will have to give to get those type of people is final say over personel decisions and as long as Vinny is around he can't give that. No one really knows Snyders true involvement, but my only point is that his involvement on any level would not be a big deal if he were bouncing his ideas off of more compitent people.

Re: The Real Problem of the Redskins ...
 

[quote=irish;519842]I agree. The strange thing is that Skins fans view DS or VC in charge instead of Zorn. In every other NFL city I have lived in the coach is the one who is in charge and the owner/GM are these guys in the background that are rarely ever in the news. When the Skins finally allow the coach to be the one in charge the organizatiion will be better off.[/quote]

At some point someone in this organization needs to stand up and say the buck stops here. There is no leader. The Dolphins are run by Parcells. We are run by committee?

The only constant in this originzation since Snyder took over as owner is:
1) Vinny and Danny at or near the top except for one year.
2) We have not been a consistent performing team.

Re: The Real Problem of the Redskins ...
 

[quote=Beemnseven;519813]...and I still maintain that even during Gibbs 2.0, the man most directly responsible for the content of the roster was and is Vinny Cerrato.[/quote]
Well you'd be wrong unless you have some proof that everything ever said during that time was a lie. Gibbs was team rpesident. Plain and simple. Vinny was a glorified director of scouting. If you want to base our acquisitions upon poor scouting then lay it at VC feet for the evaluations but it still took Gibbs' signoff to draft/pick up a player in EVERY SINGLE CASE.

Re: The Real Problem of the Redskins ...
 

[quote=firstdown;519845]Well it was also JJ who won 3 SB's running the team as he does today so he has had success.[/quote]
Dallas Vikings.....that was the only smart thing JJ's done (and it was actually Jimmy Johnson not Jerry Jones, who masterminded it.

[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herschel_Walker_trade"]Herschel Walker trade - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/URL]

With the talent the Cowgirls have had since then they should be at 8 or 9 SB wins by now.

Re: The Real Problem of the Redskins ...
 

[quote=firstdown;519845]Well it was also JJ who won 3 SB's running the team as he does today so he has had success.[/quote]

I never said he hasn't been successful, I just said he hasn't done shit for 12 or 13 years. Over that span, Jones has become increasingly meddlesome/hands on. And, if I'm not mistaken, he and Jimmy Johnson (who won those Super Bowls) parted ways because Jones couldn't leave well enough alone and insisted on constantly having his hand in the cookie jar.

Re: The Real Problem of the Redskins ...
 

[quote=GMScud;519833]No, but Jerry Jones hasn't done shit in 12 or 13 seasons, he knows people are super-skeptical of his meddlesome role(s) with the Cowgirls, yet he still publicly flexes his owner/GM/pseudo-head coach muscles every chance he gets.

You don't see any of that from Danny, despite being such a supposed "ego-maniac." I think that was the point Matty was driving at.[/quote]

I know GMScud, and Matty's point is valid since none of us know. As far as Jerry Jones is concerned, he can't deny anything. The way he's on the field during games and talking in the players ears is really putting it out there. No doubt Snyder is more reserved in that manner

What I'm saying is there's no denying it with Jerry. Where Snyder is more reserved in public.

Re: The Real Problem of the Redskins ...
 

[quote=GMScud;519843]They haven't won a playoff game since 1996. That's 12 or 13 seasons, or is my math off?? So yeah, I'll repeat myself, Jerry Jones and the Cowboys haven't done shit in 12 or 13 seasons.

The Redskins have won 3 Super Bowls as a franchise. Only an idiot fan would bring up those past victories as a defense for criticism of the current situation. Same goes for Dallas.[/quote]

Your time line is correct but Dallas has won Super Bowls under Jerry Jones. The Skins havent won anything under DS.

Re: The Real Problem of the Redskins ...
 

[quote=FRPLG;519848]Well you'd be wrong unless you have some proof that everything ever said during that time was a lie. Gibbs was team rpesident. Plain and simple. Vinny was a glorified director of scouting. If you want to base our acquisitions upon poor scouting then lay it at VC feet for the evaluations but it still took Gibbs' signoff to draft/pick up a player in EVERY SINGLE CASE.[/quote]

True Gibbs had final say but he was still deciding off of recomendations from his scouting department that was run by Vinny. If you recomend 3 bad ideas to me and I pick one then who's fault was it really?

Gibbs is a great coach but he never had a track record of good personel decisions...his biggest mistake in the 2nd go around was not insisting that Danny get him a real GM. But in truth Gibbs probably felt he could do it and was comfortable not having a GM on more equal footing with him like inthe old days.

Re: The Real Problem of the Redskins ...
 

I must say that when I read this article, I thought to myself "what else is new?" I think many media outlets have mentioned this issue with Snyder...one of them (I believe) being Michael Wilbon. While it makes some good point, this article is stating the obvious. I think Snyder has made some strides, and is slowly letting go. Making Cerrato the football boss was a step, though I do know that some people find Vinny to be a Snyder "yes man", but that has yet to be seen.

A big test for DS' ownership will come at the end of the 2009 season, if the Redskins have the same type of record or a losing season, will Snyder fire the trigger? I think a situation like this will let us know whether Snyder did pull back and allow Vinny to run things, or whether he has secretly continued to be involved.

Re: The Real Problem of the Redskins ...
 

[quote=SmootSmack;519781]This article is largely based on the assumption that Snyder is the "General Manager" of the team. Ok. Look, clearly Snyder has input. He's the owner of the team, why shouldn't he. But he also has ceded considerable decision making and football responsibilities since his first year as team owner. But some don't want to accept that because the Lombardi Trophies haven't been rolling in at the same rate the money is rolling out. [/quote]We know Snyder hires assistant coaches for his head coach. It strains credulity to imagine that he isn't also making personnel decisions.

Re: The Real Problem of the Redskins ...
 

[quote=Mattyk72;519785]Gotta say I strongly disagree with this assumption that Snyder is GM'ing the team. He has definitely stepped back in recent years to the point now where I honestly think his input on personnel is pretty limited.

Smootsmack sums things up pretty well above.[/quote]

I don't think so. At all. Vinny is 'making the decision' and where do you think Vinny comes up with his decisions? I think the Redskins PR machine likes to have people believe that Danny is out of the loops of sorts, but that is bull crap to the max and NFL insiders know it as well. For God sakes, we had head coaching candidates having slumber parties at the Snyder mansion.

Re: The Real Problem of the Redskins ...
 

[quote=44ever;519770] When the cap comes off it's going to be fun having Snyder around.[/quote]
That's what Yankees fans have been thinking for the past 8 years.

Re: The Real Problem of the Redskins ...
 

Snyders fingerprints continue to be all over this team. The article did an excellent job of pointing out the main problem with Snyder being a bad GM. However as to why Snyder is a bad GM, well I blame his obseccion with creating a high powered passing game, on top of the "being a GM is fun idea." I'd add that Snyder thinks "being the GM of a team with a high powered attack is fun."

And now the evidence:

- Hired Spurrier because he wanted a great passing game

- Drafted Ramsey because he wanted a QB to run the passing game

- At the very least, influenced Vinny to the point where the team grabbed three pass catchers in the second round

- Brought in Zorn to run the West Coast Offense while keeping the running game

- Hired Saunders in part because of his connection with the greatest show on turf. Of course his background with Gibbs helped to.

- Was involved in the circle that brought in JC with a first round pick though this ones more on Gibbs in my mind

- Since he has owned the Redskins the team has acquired Taylor Jacobs, Cliff Russell, ARE, Brandon Lloyd, D. Thomas, M. Kelly, L. Coles, and S. Moss. I would add Rod Gardner to the list but that was Marty's call. To those of you counting at home thats 6 draft picks used on Recievers since 2002. In the meantime we have gone after Braylon Edwards (before the draft), Charles Rogers (before the draft), Andre Johnson, Calvin Johnson (before the draft), Chad Johnson, A. Boldin, Larry Fitzgerald, and Roy Williams. This team, this front office, is way to commited to finding recievers and as a result we've seen our front lines crumble. And with the recent success of the Arizona Cardinals I see Snyder grabing hold of an out to continue to try and build a passing game at the expense of the front lines.

However one of my biggest problems as of late with Snyder trying to build through the air is that in our division and location it's not exactly practical. Is it possible? Of course, history proves that. However history also proves that our best bet at being a winner is playing smash mouth football. I mean look at the facts. We play in a location where it gets cold near the end of the year. On top of that our division opponents play in cold weather locations, save Dallas. It's common sense that passing games function better in warm weather. I mean hell our passing game was fine this year when the temperature was in the low 90's high 80's.

Another problem is our division is full of teams equipped to rush the passer. The Eagles, Cowboys, and Giants all have the ability to get after the Quarterback. Why on Earth would we be trying to build this super awesome passing game? I mean theres a reason that every team in the NFC East is good at running the ball, because where we play, running the ball is not a luxury, it's an element of survival (in the football sense of course).

So until Snyder stops daydreaming about the Rams during the early part of the decade we will continue to go downhill.

Re: The Real Problem of the Redskins ...
 

[quote=Defensewins;519809]Wasn't it Snyder that started negotiating with Lance Briggs with out notifying Gibbs? Hasn't Snyder personally handled contract negotiations with some players? Wouldn't by definition make him at least co-GM?[/quote]That's all correct.

Re: The Real Problem of the Redskins ...
 

[quote=Beemnseven;519816]I don't have a problem with an owner who wants to spend money. That's not the issue here. The difference is that there are owners who spend money on players that are recommended by hired hands who know football, and who can be trusted to make the right decisions with regard to player-personnel. Dan Snyder is an owner who has hired someone who has failed at player-personnel, and continues to take his advice. That's the problem.[/quote]
This is precisely correct.

Look at the Steelers. The Rooney's don't spend money the way Snyder does, but who wins more games. Money spent well goes a lot farther than money spent extravagantly.

Re: The Real Problem of the Redskins ...
 

[quote=Mattyk72;519817]If he has this massive ego as people say, it seems to me he would want everyone to know who's in charge a la Jones in Dallas.[/quote]Because the team is lousy. If the Redskins ever win a Super Bowl with Snyder as GM [ha!], believe me, we'll hear about nothing else for years. But we don't have to worry about that ever happening.

Re: The Real Problem of the Redskins ...
 

[quote=GMScud;519833]You don't see any of that from Danny, despite being such a supposed "ego-maniac." I think that was the point Matty was driving at.[/quote]
Someone who believes he is qualified to do things he clearly isn't qualified to do fits my definition of an egomaniac. Or someone suffering from delusions.

Re: The Real Problem of the Redskins ...
 

Look, one of the points of my article is that Jones and Snyder do many things the same way. Jones is more of a media hound than Snyder, but that doesn't make Snyder less egotistical. He's probably just more sensitive to criticism. One thing you can say for Jones is that he's out in front of the franchise so that when things go poorly, he can't dodge the critics or fob it off on a hireling like Vinny Cerrato. Jones takes the slings and arrows. Snyder doesn't like to do that so he hides.

Jones hasn't done much as the GM of the Cowboys. Jones won 3 Super Bowls with Jimmy Johnson's players. As free agency broke that gang up, the team declined and Jones hasn't been able to do much about it. He's a lousy GM. So is Snyder.

Re: The Real Problem of the Redskins ...
 

[QUOTE=Dirtbag]Hired Spurrier because he wanted a great passing game[/QUOTE]

Ok, but let's not forget that Spurrier was a highly sought after coach, it's not like only the Redskins were after him

[QUOTE]Drafted Ramsey because he wanted a QB to run the passing game[/QUOTE]

Mistake for sure

[QUOTE]At the very least, influenced Vinny to the point where the team grabbed three pass catchers in the second round[/QUOTE]

Are you just guessing here?

[QUOTE]Brought in Zorn to run the West Coast Offense while keeping the running game[/QUOTE]

Don't understand what you're trying to say here

[QUOTE]Hired Saunders in part because of his connection with the greatest show on turf. Of course his background with Gibbs helped to.[/QUOTE]

Of course, when he was hired. Everyone said "Finally, some modern help for old man Gibbs"

[QUOTE]Was involved in the circle that brought in JC with a first round pick though this ones more on Gibbs in my mind[/QUOTE]

You got have a QB, jury still out though on whether the investment was worth it

[QUOTE]Since he has owned the Redskins the team has acquired Taylor Jacobs, Cliff Russell, ARE, Brandon Lloyd, D. Thomas, M. Kelly, L. Coles, and S. Moss. I would add Rod Gardner to the list but that was Marty's call. To those of you counting at home thats 6 draft picks used on Recievers since 2002. In the meantime we have gone after Braylon Edwards (before the draft), Charles Rogers (before the draft), Andre Johnson, Calvin Johnson (before the draft), Chad Johnson, A. Boldin, Larry Fitzgerald, and Roy Williams. This team, this front office, is way to commited to finding recievers and as a result we've seen our front lines crumble. And with the recent success of the Arizona Cardinals I see Snyder grabing hold of an out to continue to try and build a passing game at the expense of the front lines.[/QUOTE]

I don't understand the point of mentioning only WRs we've allegedly gone after, while not mentioning linemen we've allegedly gone after

Re: The Real Problem of the Redskins ...
 

[quote=Spence;519862]We know Snyder hires assistant coaches for his head coach. It strains credulity to imagine that he isn't also making personnel decisions.[/quote]

Cerrato made the hires, and really it was only one or two new hires. Most were just retaining the current staff.

Re: The Real Problem of the Redskins ...
 

[quote=SmootSmack;519871][/quote]

[I]Ok, but let's not forget that Spurrier was a highly sought after coach, it's not like only the Redskins were after him[/I]

My main point in all of this was that the object of Snyders affection is a high flying passing attack. In citing the moves I'm trying to demonstrate that Snyder led teams will bend over backwards while ignoring needs elsewhere, namely the front lines, to bring in WR's, QB's, RB's, and TE's. Yes Spurrier was a highly sought after coach but he still fits the profile of Snyders Passing Fancy.

[I]Are you just guessing here?[/I]

Yes, but in my defense I find it hard to believe that the three highest rated players available when the Redskins picked were Two Recievers and a Tight End. Especially after pimping our first round pick for a top tier reciever before the draft. It all goes back to my point that Snyder would rather loose with 300 yard passing games then win with a Marty Ball type offense.

[I]You got have a QB, jury still out though on whether the investment was worth it[/I]

Agreed. But again more passing while getting less help up front.

[I]I don't understand the point of mentioning only WRs we've allegedly gone after, while not mentioning linemen we've allegedly gone after[/I]

I'll get back to that after class but still a fair point.

Re: The Real Problem of the Redskins ...
 

[quote=Dirtbag359;519865]

[b]However one of my biggest problems as of late with Snyder trying to build through the air is that in our division and location it's not exactly practical. Is it possible? Of course, history proves that. However history also proves that our best bet at being a winner is playing smash mouth football. I mean look at the facts. We play in a location where it gets cold near the end of the year. On top of that our division opponents play in cold weather locations, save Dallas. It's common sense that passing games function better in warm weather. [/b]I mean hell our passing game was fine this year when the temperature was in the low 90's high 80's.

Another problem is our division is full of teams equipped to rush the passer. The Eagles, Cowboys, and Giants all have the ability to get after the Quarterback. Why on Earth would we be trying to build this super awesome passing game? [b]I mean theres a reason that every team in the NFC East is good at running the ball, because where we play, running the ball is not a luxury, it's an element of survival (in the football sense of course).[/b]

So until Snyder stops daydreaming about the Rams during the early part of the decade we will continue to go downhill.[/quote]

The legend of 'smashmouth football' is a past it's time. The team that has dominiated the NFC East for a decade has been the Eagles, a team that passes no less than 60% of the time. We've got to get away from our past and the 'pound the rock' mentality. The Hogs, Riggo, Joey T, Coach Gibbs are all the past, the present and future is winning through the air. By the way, New England plays in a cold weather area, how did their passing game fare the past few years? They've never been a running team and I think for the most part they did OK the past decade.

While Spurrier was a joke of a head coach, I'd bet as an offensive coordinator he'd be damn successful. Points are scored in the passing game in today's NFL. We've tried to get with the times but we've failed miserably at establishing franchise cornerstones at two positions, QB and #1 WR. Yes the lines are very important, but two teams with terrible OL this season were the Steelers and Cardinals. How did that work out for them? They have however elite QB and a legitimate #1 WR. You can get away with less than elite OL if you are elite at other positions. We're not elite anywhere, merely 'good' at a few spots.

Re: The Real Problem of the Redskins ...
 

[quote=freddyg12;519797]I think the article is well written. I appreciate what others have said about DS stepping back on decisions and letting Vinny take over. [B][COLOR=darkred]Yet I can't be totally convinced that Vinny's not making decisions w/Snyder in his ear. Two wr's & a TE in last year's draft smells of danny influence. Was Jason Taylor all Vinny's decision[/COLOR][/B] (for the record I like the deal at the time, but a 2nd was awful high).
[/quote]

Also, Vinny seems to be our GM because of his close relation to Snyder and not because of his GM prowess. Since he seems like a minion of Snyder, the owner's personel tiebreaker rule sounds absurd:

"If Vinny and the head coach can't decide between a player then Danny decides."

Danny can set himself up to make any decision he wants to by making Vinny contest a personel decision with the head coach. Vinny doesn't seem to be strong enough in his own football convictions that he would stand up to Danny. Vinny and Danny don't seem to butt heads enough in lite of the football personel moves we've been making. Since Vinny is still with the team I think that it is evident that Danny still plays a large part in the personel moves.

Re: The Real Problem of the Redskins ...
 

[quote=Skinny Tee;519885]Also, Vinny seems to be our GM because of his close relation to Snyder and not because of his GM prowess. Since he seems like a minion of Snyder, the owner's personel tiebreaker rule sounds absurd:

"If Vinny and the head coach can't decide between a player then Danny decides."

Danny can set himself up to make any decision he wants to by making Vinny contest a personel decision with the head coach. Vinny doesn't seem to be strong enough in his own football convictions that he would stand up to Danny. Vinny and Danny don't seem to butt heads enough in lite of the football personel moves we've been making. Since Vinny is still with the team I think that it is evident that Danny still plays a large part in the personel moves.[/quote]

Yeah, that's so unheard of.

"If there's a trade or a signing or a move Gibbs and General Manager Charley Casserly want to make, they explain it to Cooke. If Gibbs and Casserly disagree, they each make their cases to Cooke, who serves as arbitrator."

[url=http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/sports/redskins/history/gibbs/articles/jg91feat.htm]WashingtonPost.com: Cooke, Gibbs Forge Friendship, Winning Ways[/url]

Re: The Real Problem of the Redskins ...
 

The real thing w/ me is that we should have a great organization if DS does the right things:

Getting a Football guy to run our front office

Getting a young talented football coach for our team that meshes w/ our new Gm

Lot's of money to spend frugally


The combination of wise decisions and the ability to spend some money should put us right at the top of the NFC East year in a year out.

Re: The Real Problem of the Redskins ...
 

[quote=Dirtbag359;519875][I]Ok, but let's not forget that Spurrier was a highly sought after coach, it's not like only the Redskins were after him[/I]

My main point in all of this was that the object of Snyders affection is a high flying passing attack. In citing the moves I'm trying to demonstrate that Snyder led teams will bend over backwards while ignoring needs elsewhere, namely the front lines, to bring in WR's, QB's, RB's, and TE's. Yes Spurrier was a highly sought after coach but he still fits the profile of Snyders Passing Fancy.

[I]Are you just guessing here?[/I]

Yes, but in my defense I find it hard to believe that the three highest rated players available when the Redskins picked were Two Recievers and a Tight End. Especially after pimping our first round pick for a top tier reciever before the draft. It all goes back to my point that Snyder would rather loose with 300 yard passing games then win with a Marty Ball type offense.

[I]You got have a QB, jury still out though on whether the investment was worth it[/I]

Agreed. But again more passing while getting less help up front.

[I]I don't understand the point of mentioning only WRs we've allegedly gone after, while not mentioning linemen we've allegedly gone after[/I]

I'll get back to that after class but still a fair point.[/quote]

Yea we saw that high flying O this year and Snyder stayed with Zorn so your argument does not hold up. Also last year we had several linemen we wanted that were gone by our pick.

Re: The Real Problem of the Redskins ...
 

[quote=SmootSmack;519893]Yeah, that's so unheard of.

"If there's a trade or a signing or a move Gibbs and General Manager Charley Casserly want to make, they explain it to Cooke. If Gibbs and Casserly disagree, they each make their cases to Cooke, who serves as arbitrator."

[URL="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/sports/redskins/history/gibbs/articles/jg91feat.htm"]WashingtonPost.com: Cooke, Gibbs Forge Friendship, Winning Ways[/URL][/quote]

Wow, that's a nice find. Good article.

Re: The Real Problem of the Redskins ...
 

[quote=SmootSmack;519893]Yeah, that's so unheard of.

"If there's a trade or a signing or a move Gibbs and General Manager Charley Casserly want to make, they explain it to Cooke. If Gibbs and Casserly disagree, they each make their cases to Cooke, who serves as arbitrator."

[url=http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/sports/redskins/history/gibbs/articles/jg91feat.htm]WashingtonPost.com: Cooke, Gibbs Forge Friendship, Winning Ways[/url][/quote]

Ah 1991, our last hurrah as a successful team. :(

Re: The Real Problem of the Redskins ...
 

This is from the article. "Bill Cowher refused to work for Snyder for the same reason."
So when did Snyder interview Bill Cowher or was this just made up? Even if it is true Cowher has refused to coach any team until 2010 so the statement is still stupid.

Re: The Real Problem of the Redskins ...
 

There's a forest through the trees view that is being ignored IMHO. It is debatable whether Snyder is the last say on GM duties i.e. whether he is truly responsible for the decade+ of mediocrity despite spending crazy money. As fans we can go rounds on this point from here to kingdom come and probably never agree to disagree...

What is nearly incontrovertable at this point in time is that very good coaches do not want to work for Snyder or the Redskins [B]and to me this is what matters most.[/B] Spags will be a great coach somewhere, he didn't like what he saw in Snyder and for that Snyder acted like an insecure little child. My best intuition is that beyond Zorn we will not see a guy of character as HC for a very long time to come (even if Danny changed his stupid ways). Snyder deserves it. We don't.

Re: The Real Problem of the Redskins ...
 

... also one could rehash the whole GD travesty surrounding Gregg Williams... I've beat that horse dead a few times already and won't repeat my same old blatherings but it is still significant IMO (if for no other reason that Williams is extremely well respected around the league and it's obvious to all but a few he was smeared by Snyder and/or his people). I mean really, does anyone think the great coaches [I]should[/I] have any respect for Snyder or want to give him a chance?

Re: The Real Problem of the Redskins ...
 

[quote=The Goat;519916]There's a forest through the trees view that is being ignored IMHO. It is debatable whether Snyder is the last say on GM duties i.e. whether he is truly responsible for the decade+ of mediocrity despite spending crazy money. As fans we can go rounds on this point from here to kingdom come and probably never agree to disagree...

What is nearly incontrovertable at this point in time is that very good coaches do not want to work for Snyder or the Redskins [B]and to me this is what matters most.[/B] Spags will be a great coach somewhere, he didn't like what he saw in Snyder and for that Snyder acted like an insecure little child. My best intuition is that beyond Zorn we will not see a guy of character as HC for a very long time to come (even if Danny changed his stupid ways). Snyder deserves it. We don't.[/quote]

Spags has already been passed up a couple of times for head coaching jobs this offseason, and he probably will be passed up a few more times.

He may be a good head coach one day, but let's not go crowning him before he's earned anything. As a head coach, he has done nothing, I'll repeat NOTHING, that Zorn hasn't already.

Re: The Real Problem of the Redskins ...
 

[quote=SmootSmack;519920]Spags has already been passed up a couple of times for head coaching jobs this offseason, and he probably will be passed up a few more times.

He may be a good head coach one day, but let's not go crowning him before he's earned anything. As a head coach, he has done nothing, I'll repeat NOTHING, that Zorn hasn't already.[/quote]

good point