Re: Peppers says he wants to explore free agency
 

As several have said Peppers & Haynesworth both have similar histories of playing big but not being consistent, except in contract years.

Neither one of these guys can fix our pass rush, and we can't sign both. We already have too many guys near or over 30. This D could be really avg. to poor next year. They held it together & over achieved in 08, but age & the lack of young talent is soon to catch up. We'd have to cut a few vets & one of these guys by himself can't make up for their loss.

Re: Peppers says he wants to explore free agency
 

I wouldn't be opposed to signing Peppers, I would give him a 3 year contract with an option for a 4th and it has to be cap friendly. We all know that's not going to happen since he's looking a Fort Knox type payday.

Re: Peppers says he wants to explore free agency
 

When teams make big free agency signings, they know they are going to overpay in terms of dollars vs. units of talent. They know that going in.

But what they have to be willing to say is that, "this player is worth more to us then he is to every other team" and they also have to be able to provide reasoning for that. Otherwise, its a bad signing by definition.

Re: Peppers says he wants to explore free agency
 

[quote=Ruhskins;521219]I looked at Haynesworth stats and he has been pretty inconsistent, whereas Peppers (save for last year) he has had consistently good years. I would not mind Haynesworth, I just feel that he has the potential to be a bust.[/quote]

I agree with production but I think Peppers is not worth the money he's asking at this point in his career

Re: Peppers says he wants to explore free agency
 

[quote=skinsfan69;521191]What is it with people wanting out of Carolina? First Jenkins and now Peppers. I'd certainly take a look at him and you know we will cause that's how Dan and Vinny operate. I think he can help us and he's better than anyone we have so why not??[/quote]

got a point, i mean we all hate the thought o maybe bringing in Jenkins cuz he was washed up, no good, but look at the year he had. Im probaly completely wrong on this and do tell me if i am, but he really has a good year, helped stablize the Jets Deffense some. So i ask you why not?

Re: Peppers says he wants to explore free agency
 

[quote=44Deezel;521205]We'll pay him way more than he ever made in Carolina and he'll never deliver the same production. Haven't we learned our lesson?

Ravens, Patriots, Steelers, Ravens, Titans, Giants, Rascal - teams that draft well, develop talent and know when to let players go. These teams find good free agents and get great production out of them. The Skins get great free agents and get average production out of them.

Going after Peppers would be a bad move.[/quote]

Agree 100000% 44Dez. Seems like everyone comes here to retire. It's kind of like the NFL equivalent of moving to Florida :)

Re: Peppers says he wants to explore free agency
 

[quote=44ever;521240]Agree 100000% 44Dez. [B] Seems like everyone comes here to retire. It's kind of like the NFL equivalent of moving to Florida [/B]:)[/quote]

:laughing2 Sometimes it seems that way. Too funny 44.

Re: Peppers says he wants to explore free agency
 

[quote=Paintrain;521099]Assuming Taylor doesn't return, which at $8 million is a virtual certainty, Peppers is a perfect compliment to Carter. He already plays the opposite end, is strong against the run and can drop down to DT in a pinch.[/quote]
Peppers is not strong against the run and there is no way he can drop down to defensive tackle. He wants to become an outside linebacker in a 3-4.

Re: Peppers says he wants to explore free agency
 

[url=http://www.profootballtalk.com/2009/01/17/peppers-wants-to-play-in-a-3-4-defense/]ProFootballTalk.com - PEPPERS WANTS TO PLAY IN A 3-4 DEFENSE[/url]

This should dash some hopes of the Peppers fans.

Re: Peppers says he wants to explore free agency
 

[quote=MiraclesHappen07;521239]got a point, i mean we all hate the thought o maybe bringing in Jenkins cuz he was washed up, no good, but look at the year he had. Im probaly completely wrong on this and do tell me if i am, but he really has a good year, helped stablize the Jets Deffense some. So i ask you why not?[/quote]

I could be wrong but I thought when Mangenius was fired some were saying it was as much fault as players like Jenkins who laid down toward the end of the year as it was the coaches that the Jets fell off. Heard it somewhere, can't remember where.

Re: Peppers says he wants to explore free agency
 

I feel like there is no way that Carolina will let him go without getting something in return for him. They will franchise him in the hopes of getting draft choices for him, so if the Redskins would want to sign him they will have to give up at least there #1 pick this year.

Re: Peppers says he wants to explore free agency
 

[quote=89moss89;521302]I feel like there is no way that Carolina will let him go without getting something in return for him. They will franchise him in the hopes of getting draft choices for him, so [B]if the Redskins would want to sign him they will have to give up at least there #1 pick this year.[/B][/quote]

Man don't even say it or it might happen!

Re: Peppers says he wants to explore free agency
 

[quote=RedskinMike;521114]no way would i take the risk with haynesworth. the money is way to high with a lot of character issues, though i feel d tackle is our biggest need on defense[/quote]
What stepping on a guys head in football was the norm and atleast we know he has a mean streak.

Re: Peppers says he wants to explore free agency
 

[quote=Skinny Tee;521276][url=http://www.profootballtalk.com/2009/01/17/peppers-wants-to-play-in-a-3-4-defense/]ProFootballTalk.com - PEPPERS WANTS TO PLAY IN A 3-4 DEFENSE[/url]

This should dash some hopes of the Peppers fans.[/quote]

Hmm...I wonder where he'd end up...Browns? NE? (ugh, I hope not) a lot of teams run the 3-4 now, no?

Re: Peppers says he wants to explore free agency
 

He is a great player but not worth the price tag. The Skins need to stick to the draft and build that way.

Re: Peppers says he wants to explore free agency
 

He'd be way to expensive.

Re: Peppers says he wants to explore free agency
 

Peppers should take notes from Adrian Wilson from the Cards.

Re: Peppers says he wants to explore free agency
 

[quote=TheSmurfs22;521368]He is a great player but not worth the price tag. The Skins need to stick to the draft and build that way.[/quote]

Once again, a rookie player may or may not have an impact on the defense. Signing or not signing peppers has nothing to do with "building through the draft" (unless we were trading for Peppers, and that's not the case).

The Redskins have some decisions to make on the defensive side of the ball. One would be to sign one of these big time free agents in hopes that they would make immediate impact, which a lot of us agree would not be a good decision.

An alternative to this would be to sign less expensive players (i.e. Bernard from Seattle and/or Karlos Dansby...although with AZ going to the SB he may not be that inexpensive) as well as drafting a young d-lineman. Hope that those inexpensive players contribute while any defensive rookie(s) develop.

Otherwise you are stuck with the same players and you can sign rookies. But once again, rookies may or may not contribute. Yes, I would hope that we can sign a DE or DT that can contribute right away (a la Horton) but it may not happen.

So please don't say: "let's not sign Peppers and build through the draft." Unless you want for our defense to be the same next year or however many years it takes for those rookies you pick up to contribute. Last draft the Redskins were building through the draft by picking up Kelly, Thomas, and Davis. But building through the draft doesn't mean that they contributed right away, many times it means that you pick up rookies to develop over a season or two so they can contribute later on.

Re: Peppers says he wants to explore free agency
 

Stubblefield
Big Daddy Wilkenson
Bruce Smith
Jason Taylor

All DL players who we paid MASSIVE DOLLARS to bring here - with huge fan enthusiasm over the last decade. Then they came here and underperformed. They all were tremendous failures.

[B]Draft for the DL and OL and build that way, like the best teams in the NFL. [/B]Otherwise we'll be adding another $1-3 million per sack player to this list above.

Re: Peppers says he wants to explore free agency
 

We have the lowest number of draft picks toward the DL in the last decade. I wonder if our low win percentage has ANYTHING to do with that neglect.

We choose flash players (mostly WR) over the trenches every year.

Re: Peppers says he wants to explore free agency
 

I am a UNC fan so I have followed Peppers since college, though I like him I don't want him to die here.

Re: Peppers says he wants to explore free agency
 

[quote=Ruhskins;521149]I think is funny how people are willing to go with Haynesworth (including me at one point) despite all the character issues he has. Peppers has had consistent good years, save for last year when he did not produce much. You can say that he had a contract year this year, but before last year he was having similar numbers to this year.
[B]
Now, I do not think we should go after Peppers, I think we should go after Gross. At DT, we can go after someone like Rocky Bernard, who quietly had a good year in a crappy team with a crappy defense. [/B]

Initially I was all about us getting Haynesworth, but the more I think about it, the more it looks like he would be a bust.[/quote]

You're like me in a sense in you care about character. With that said Rocky Bernard isn't going to fit that criteria either, in fact he might be worse then Haynesworth.

[B]Suspension[/B]

On Saturday, August 30, 2008, the [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NFL"]National Football League[/URL] suspended Bernard for the [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seattle_Seahawks"]Seahawks'[/URL] 2008 season opener for violating the league's personal conduct policy. Bernard was arrested in April on investigation of domestic violence. He alledgedly punched his ex-girlfriend in the forehead. He will lose $235,000 in salary for the suspension.[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rocky_Bernard#cite_note-1"][2][/URL]

Re: Peppers says he wants to explore free agency
 

My somewhat educated guess says the following:

-We're going to show some interest in Peppers and Jordan Gross but it won't be all that intense. And, much to my dismay, we're not likely to go after Karlos Dansby either.

-We're going to offer a lot of money to Albert Haynesworth mainly because he's exactly what Blache has been asking for, a dominating interior lineman. Personally, I think the concerns about Big Al's character issues are a bit overrated. The bigger concern is really durability issues, he's only played one 16 game season in seven NFL seasons.

-Blache is really hoping Daniels' knee is up for at least one more year so he can put him back at DE opposite Andre Carter and allow the team to...

-Move Jason Taylor (who I think they figure out a way to keep) to weakside linebacker.

-If Daniels can't go, maybe they go with Evans again. Either way, I know that at this point DE is not high on their list (probably some late round pick if they get some extra picks) so I expect the 2009 starters are already on the roster

-Marcus Washington is probably gone (along with Griffin especially if they are able to get Haynesworth)

-McIntosh moves to the strongside but could be benched pretty quickly if they are able to get the guy they hope might fall to them in the draft...

-Aaron Curry. If he's there at #13 (not likely) the Redskins will probably take him and hope to trade late into the first round or into the top third of the second round to take an OT (deep class) like Beatty or Loadholt

-If Curry isn't there, they'll probably take an OT there at #13 and then hope to trade late into the first round or into the top third of the second round take an OLB like Cushing or Sintim. I think Cushing might actually be the guy they most want (little worried about that) but not at #13

-If they keep their third round pick, it may be an interior OL but it's more likely to be a running back

That's all for my somewhat educated guesses for now

Re: Peppers says he wants to explore free agency
 

Some say the "DL is fine" and their are others who always argue for more DB picks. The truth is that our defense could not hold the best QB down because we have no pass rush. A quick review:

Gholston and Montgomery are decent but would be backup on other teams.
Griffin is on his last legs and the far downside of his career.
Taylor, Carter and Evans together had less sacks then a single, good DE.
The age and level of play of our DL is below average and getting worse. It needs talent and new blood.

[B]The best defenses constantly draft for the DL - every year. They can constantly apply pressure on the QB, get turnovers and points for their teams.[/B]

Yet, Blache and Vinny seem to want to reject the winning philosophy of the elites and look for experienced DL players who cost huge dollars against the cap and then coast to retirement on Danny's and our fans dime.

The DL is NOT fine!

Re: Peppers says he wants to explore free agency
 

[quote=A10sROCK;521498]Some say the "DL is fine" and their are others who always argue for more DB picks. The truth is that our defense could not hold the best QB down because we have no pass rush. A quick review:

Gholston and Montgomery are decent but would be backup on other teams.
Griffin is on his last legs and the far downside of his career.
Taylor, Carter and Evans together had less sacks then a single, good DE.
The age and level of play of our DL is below average and getting worse. It needs talent and new blood.

[B]The best defenses constantly draft for the DL - every year. They can constantly apply pressure on the QB, get turnovers and points for their teams.[/B]

Yet, Blache and Vinny seem to want to reject the winning philosophy of the elites and look for experienced DL players who cost huge dollars against the cap and then coast to retirement on Danny's and our fans dime.

The DL is NOT fine![/quote]Well, yeah, if you go out of your way to create weaknesses for all of our current guys, then I would say the correct conclusion is that we need new players.

Re: Peppers says he wants to explore free agency
 

[quote=SmootSmack;521497]-Aaron Curry. If he's there at #13 (not likely) the Redskins will probably take him and hope to trade late into the first round or into the top third of the second round to take an OT (deep class) like Beatty or Loadholt

-If Curry isn't there, they'll probably take an OT there at #13 and then hope to trade late into the first round or into the top third of the second round take an OLB like Cushing or Sintim. I think Cushing might actually be the guy they most want (little worried about that) but not at #13
[/quote]I'd be surprised if Aaron Curry wasn't the No. 1 overall guy on Vinny's board.

What do you think the plan for the offensive line really is, considering there's a significant portion of it we are already committed to cap wise?

Re: Peppers says he wants to explore free agency
 

[quote=GTripp0012;521503]Well, yeah, if you go out of your way to create weaknesses for all of our current guys, then I would say the correct conclusion is that we need new players.[/quote]

Are you saying you think we have a good pass rush or even a decent DL?

All I'm saying is that a couple good draft DL picks over the next two years could bring this line back to the top. Something this team hasn't done over the last decade.

Re: Peppers says he wants to explore free agency
 

[quote=A10sROCK;521506]Are you saying you think we have a good pass rush or even a decent DL?

All I'm saying is that a couple good draft DL picks over the next two years could bring this line back to the top. Something this team hasn't done over the last decade.[/quote]I'm in no way saying that we shouldn't pick some defensive lineman high in the next few drafts. What I am saying is that we already have a considerable amount of talent there. In the case of the ends, it's certainly older talent, there's no doubt about that.

It would be a mistake for us to go cutting everyone though. Our line is much stronger against the run than the pass, and what we can't do consistently against the pass is not evidence that we can't do anything right with the current guys.

Here's the bare bones point: if we can't get to the passer with the talent we already have, bringing in other players isn't going to help us get there. Which, again, doesn't mean I think we should ignore the position in the draft continually. We should take defensive linemen in the draft when it makes sense to do so.

Re: Peppers says he wants to explore free agency
 

[quote=GTripp0012;521504]I'd be surprised if Aaron Curry wasn't the No. 1 overall guy on Vinny's board.

What do you think the plan for the offensive line really is, considering there's a significant portion of it we are already committed to cap wise?[/quote]

Well the latest on Curry is he's skyrocketing to probably being a top 3 pick so that improves the likelihood at this point that we're taking Cushing at 13 (assuming he's there). I really like the idea of adding a young, playmaking OLB but I'm not convinced entirely that Cushing is the right choice that high.

I think the plan for the offensive line is Samuels is the LT until he has to carted off; at LG they really (and so do I) want to see Rinehart take that spot this summer, though I think they'll probably bring back Kendall for cheap if they can regardless, C is kind of a toss up position right now-I don't think they're in love with Rabach but I also get the sense they don't think it's all that important a position relative to others-I think they take a C very late in the draft and have Rabach, Geisinger (if healthy) and the draft pick battle it out in training camp with Jansen and Kendall being long shots. At RG, Thomas probably stays there. RT is the wild card, I think they're really trying to trade into the 2nd round to get an OT there. There are probably 7-8 draft picks who could start at RT right away and who knows when that will happen again.

So to summarize-Samuels, Rinehart, Any old bloke, Thomas, Rookie is probably their ideal starting scenario.

Re: Peppers says he wants to explore free agency
 

[quote=GTripp0012;521508]I'm in no way saying that we shouldn't pick some defensive lineman high in the next few drafts. What I am saying is that we already have a considerable amount of talent there. In the case of the ends, it's certainly older talent, there's no doubt about that.

It would be a mistake for us to go cutting everyone though. Our line is much stronger against the run than the pass, and what we can't do consistently against the pass is not evidence that we can't do anything right with the current guys.

Here's the bare bones point: if we can't get to the passer with the talent we already have, bringing in other players isn't going to help us get there. Which, again, doesn't mean I think we should ignore the position in the draft continually. We should take defensive linemen in the draft when it makes sense to do so.[/quote]

Ok, I understand. Good points. I'm not for cutting the entire DL, even if it is one of the oldest in the NFL. what I'm saying is that it needs a major infusion of young talent this draft and next, using some of our top selections.

Something that this team hasn't done for years. K. Lang was our last high draft pick. Unfortunately we also need to draft for the OL for the same reasons.

BL - we have consistently proved you can't 'buy' a top DL; you need to also draft for it using first day picks.

Re: Peppers says he wants to explore free agency
 

[quote=A10sROCK;521506]Are you saying you think we have a good pass rush or even a decent DL?

All I'm saying is that a couple good draft DL picks over the next two years could bring this line back to the top. Something this team hasn't done over the last decade.[/quote]

you seem to forget we had the #4 ranked defense in the league

Re: Peppers says he wants to explore free agency
 

Well day one of Senior Bowl week, and the early word is the D-Linemen are abusing the O-Linemen. Unger looking poor. Ziggy Hood and Ron Brace dominating. Raji playing like possibly a top 5 pick.

Re: Peppers says he wants to explore free agency
 

[quote=SmootSmack;521510]So to summarize-Samuels, Rinehart, Any old bloke, Thomas, Rookie is probably their ideal starting scenario.[/quote]I'm wondering what's the deal with Thomas, because not only did he struggle to grasp zone blocking concepts, he also started to struggle with things he is historically strong at, such as one on one pass blocking and pulling to hit the end.

We've seen instances of players who just perform terribly for a year with no real warning signs and then bounce right back the next year, which I think can happen with Thomas, but man, was he awful this season.

Re: Peppers says he wants to explore free agency
 

[quote=SmootSmack;521514]Well day one of Senior Bowl week, and the early word is the D-Linemen are abusing the O-Linemen. Unger looking poor. [B]Ziggy Hood [/B]and Ron Brace dominating. Raji playing like possibly a top 5 pick.[/quote]

Hood is a guy to keep an eye on. If we get a 2nd round pick and he's there, I would take him. He may not be Haynesworth but he's good and would be a hell of a lot cheaper. I'll doubt he'd still be there in the 3rd. His stock will probably rise.

Re: Peppers says he wants to explore free agency
 

[quote=Dirtbag359;521386]You're like me in a sense in you care about character. With that said Rocky Bernard isn't going to fit that criteria either, in fact he might be worse then Haynesworth.

[B]Suspension[/B]

On Saturday, August 30, 2008, the [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NFL"]National Football League[/URL] suspended Bernard for the [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seattle_Seahawks"]Seahawks'[/URL] 2008 season opener for violating the league's personal conduct policy. Bernard was arrested in April on investigation of domestic violence. He alledgedly punched his ex-girlfriend in the forehead. He will lose $235,000 in salary for the suspension.[URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rocky_Bernard#cite_note-1"][2][/URL][/quote]

Huh, I didn't know about Bernard and his issues. I just thought it was funny how when we were talking about just Haynesworth, people were like no we shouldn't get him, he'll be a bust, he has character issues, etc., etc. But now that we brought Peppers to the picture in our discussions, people were now saying we should get Haynesworth and not Peppers (once again, I'm not advocating getting any of them).

Re: Peppers says he wants to explore free agency
 

[quote=53Fan;521524]Hood is a guy to keep an eye on. If we get a 2nd round pick and he's there, I would take him. He may not be Haynesworth but he's good and would be a hell of a lot cheaper. I'll doubt he'd still be there in the 3rd. His stock will probably rise.[/quote]

Yeah, I was talking to this college scout last week, and he was really high on Hood and some center whose name I can't remember). But he had Hood as a 3rd or 4th rounder back then.

He said Malcolm Jenkins was far and away his favorite player in the draft and if by some chance he fell to 13 we had to take him. I disagreed and said we didn't need to spend our 13th pick on a CB, we need line help. He said "you can find linemen later, you won't find Jenkins for a long time"

If it's any consolation, the team he scouts for is pretty awful.

But anyhow, I know nothing of Hood.

Re: Peppers says he wants to explore free agency
 

[quote=SmootSmack;521510]Well the latest on Curry is he's skyrocketing to probably being a top 3 pick so that improves the likelihood at this point that we're taking Cushing at 13 (assuming he's there). I really like the idea of adding a young, playmaking OLB but I'm not convinced entirely that Cushing is the right choice that high.

I think the plan for the offensive line is Samuels is the LT until he has to carted off; at LG they really (and so do I) want to see Rinehart take that spot this summer, though I think they'll probably bring back Kendall for cheap if they can regardless, C is kind of a toss up position right now-I don't think they're in love with Rabach but I also get the sense they don't think it's all that important a position relative to others-I think they take a C very late in the draft and have Rabach, Geisinger (if healthy) and the draft pick battle it out in training camp with Jansen and Kendall being long shots. At RG, Thomas probably stays there. RT is the wild card, I think they're really trying to trade into the 2nd round to get an OT there. There are probably 7-8 draft picks who could start at RT right away and who knows when that will happen again.

So to summarize-Samuels, Rinehart, Any old bloke, Thomas, Rookie is probably their ideal starting scenario.[/quote]

I can't help but be worried that we might not take a truly top OT in this year's draft. For all practical purposes we don't have a RT and Samuels while still very, very good is no spring chicken. A franchise tackle gives us so many options at this point where we can shore up both tackle positions for the foreseeable future.

... I understand OLB is def a need. Also realize it's just my opinion that a franchise OT is the best move but it will be sooooo unfair to JC (and the fans) if the FO fails to significantly upgrade the line. :(

I would just add that w/ Thomas struggling so bad last season and his resurgence as an effective guard questionable, but the near certainty he is retained because of the cap hit) it's all the more important we put a monster at RT.

Re: Peppers says he wants to explore free agency
 

Also curious as to how Rocky Mac would be effective @ strong side LB when he struggled at weak-side? The official skins site has him listed @ 232 lbs... lighter than Marcus, Fletcher, Blades and even Fincher (who looks the meanest of them all BTW).

Re: Peppers says he wants to explore free agency
 

[quote=SmootSmack;521528]Yeah, I was talking to this college scout last week, and he was really high on Hood [B]and some center whose name I can't remember). [/B]But he had Hood as a 3rd or 4th rounder back then.

He said Malcolm Jenkins was far and away his favorite player in the draft and if by some chance he fell to 13 we had to take him. I disagreed and said we didn't need to spend our 13th pick on a CB, we need line help. He said "you can find linemen later, you won't find Jenkins for a long time"

If it's any consolation, the team he scouts for is pretty awful.

But anyhow, I know nothing of Hood.[/quote]

Was it Alex Mack?

Re: Peppers says he wants to explore free agency
 

[quote=The Goat;521534]Also curious as to how Rocky Mac would be effective @ strong side LB when he struggled at weak-side? The official skins site has him listed @ 232 lbs... lighter than Marcus, Fletcher, Blades and even Fincher (who looks the meanest of them all BTW).[/quote]I believe that SLB is the easiest position to handle on the entire defense, and while "strong side" would imply that you need a bigger, stronger player there, the fact that you spend a lot of time taking on blocks from the tight end instead of a tackle or guard makes me think that a smaller guy should be able to handle SLB better than WLB.

That, and I think it's somewhat easier, without having curl-flat coverage responsibilities and all.