Re: Dumb and Dumber, Vinny and Dan
 

[quote=Daseal;543048]The whole Cutler deal doesn’t make sense to me. Cutler was an upgrade. Cutler was available. Cutler’s price tag ended up being too high. The Redskins backed out and let another team fall on the sword. What’s the issue. Had the Broncos done what the Redskins did with Campbell, Cutler would have never been traded. Props to the FO for doing a great job with crowd control after that fiasco. On an unrelated rumor, NFL radio said the rumor was there was a 3 way trade, including WAS, CLE, and DEN. With CLE getting Cutler and Quinn ending up in DEN. Not sure what the skins were doing, perhaps picking up more draft picks? Or it could be a totally unfounded rumor – fact is, we’ll probably never know.[/quote]This problem is that, reportedly, it went past a passing interest. We were prepared to throw multiple first round picks at Jay Cutler. Which is unquestionably insane, given our current QB situation.

We will never know if Snyder pulled the offer, or simply was outbid, but the fact that we were even there is proof of a shallow understanding of why we lost 8 games last year. It's telling Jason Campbell that he is being held responsible for failures he wasn't responsible for. It's proof that we don't see a problem with buying high and selling low. It's proof of so many structural problems in management that we can't just sweep it under the rug and pretend it didn't happen.

The same deal happened last year with Chad Johnson. We ONLY seem to chase players that are overvalued by the market. That's one thing if you are a team that generally avoids trades and free agency, but for this team, it's a big problem. Regardless of how you or I view Snyder as an owner, you aren't taking this seriously enough in your evaluation of the situation.

We very nearly reduced ourselves to a single first day draft pick in the next two years. And for what? Two good-but-overhyped players in Taylor and Cutler. You can't claim patience as a defense. We're too impulsive.

Re: Dumb and Dumber, Vinny and Dan
 

[quote=SmootSmack;543044]I think some people decided long ago to hate him, and always hate him no matter what. Whatever[/quote]


Oh come on now. Reasonable people can disagree and a reasonable person could have come to the conclusion [I]over time [/I]that he is bad for the Redskins . There have been many "last straws" over the years. This fiasco of publicly humiliating Campbell is only the latest. But until Obama starts firing NFL owners we're stuck with him.

Re: Dumb and Dumber, Vinny and Dan
 

[quote=PennSkinsFan;543050]I am not going to speak for Tom, but i can give you my perspective.

I gave Dan Snyder a good 4 to 5 years. I think Matt can attest to that, he used to post at times with us at hR and I used to defend Snyder. That has changed over the last three years because I don't like what I see that he has done to this once proud and historic organization. This has nothing to do with Dan the person. I don't know Dan. I have met several in the organization, but never Dan. I don't know him. BUT, I don't like his ownership style and I never will. This franchise really has no thought out plan for success. There is no plan for drafting to replace players in a few years, to build a healthy franchise. It develops players, leaves them go. Spends vasts amount of money on stars, while critical positions linger. They have not invested good solid drafts picks on the Oline and Dline since 2000. That is horrific. Especially given how critical those position are to success. The franchise is nothing more than a 10-6 to 5-11 franchise, hit the playoffs once every few years, but that is about it. Why? Because there is no direction. When your owner believe Vinny Cerrato is the guy, I already question it.

Listen, we all have differing opinions. I am one of those kind of guys, porbably because of my professional life and the success we have had at DCPSR, I am simply one of those guys that always believe in, what have you done lately. This farnchise has been mediocre since Snyder bought it and the lack of planning and decisions like Jason Taylor, Brandon Lloyd, and TJ Duckett are just awful, simply awful. I guess growing up in the 80s and watching how Jack Kente Cooke developed this franchise, with a professional staff, spoiled me. Watching teams like Pittsburgh and New England win year in and year out because they draft with purpose makes me wish. Given the fact that the last two years have seen more and more empty seats at FEDEX, I would say that Snyder's ownership is taking an effect, and not a good one. Just my opinion.[/quote]

Thanks for the thoughts, certainly well expressed. My next question is do you see a growth and maturation in Snyder (I certainly think I do). If so, does that give you any pause in your thoughts, or do you think it is too small to measure?

Re: Dumb and Dumber, Vinny and Dan
 

[quote=GTripp0012;543054]This problem is that, reportedly, it went past a passing interest. We were prepared to throw multiple first round picks at Jay Cutler. Which is unquestionably insane, given our current QB situation.

[B]We will never know if Snyder pulled the offer, or simply was outbid,[/B] but the fact that we were even there is proof of a shallow understanding of why we lost 8 games last year. It's telling Jason Campbell that he is being held responsible for failures he wasn't responsible for. It's proof that we don't see a problem with buying high and selling low. It's proof of so many structural problems in management that we can't just sweep it under the rug and pretend it didn't happen.

The same deal happened last year with Chad Johnson. We ONLY seem to chase players that are overvalued by the market. That's one thing if you are a team that generally avoids trades and free agency, but for this team, it's a big problem. Regardless of how you or I view Snyder as an owner, you aren't taking this seriously enough in your evaluation of the situation.

We very nearly reduced ourselves to a single first day draft pick in the next two years. And for what? Two good-but-overhyped players in Taylor and Cutler. You can't claim patience as a defense. We're too impulsive.[/quote]

One of the ESPN reporters was talking in depth on the trade to Chicago, and I found it interesting that he said that Chicago had thought they were out of the mix for about 3 hours, no texts, calls etc. Then Denver called them when the other team (they did not say us, and in fact made it sound like it might have been Cleveland) did not offer Denver what they wanted. If that is right then we pulled out on our own, and again I think it is a sign Danny at least saw some boundary he would not go over. Sorry no link or reference, I saw it right when I got home, and was kinda spacing with the TV on.

Re: Dumb and Dumber, Vinny and Dan
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;543063]One of the ESPN reporters was talking in depth on the trade to Chicago, and I found it interesting that he said that Chicago had thought they were out of the mix for about 3 hours, no texts, calls etc. Then Denver called them when the other team (they did not say us, and in fact made it sound like it might have been Cleveland) did not offer Denver what they wanted. If that is right then we pulled out on our own, and again I think it is a sign Danny at least saw some boundary he would not go over. Sorry no link or reference, I saw it right when I got home, and was kinda spacing with the TV on.[/quote]

I read that our offer was part of a three team deal that included Cleveland because Denver did not want Campbell. Apparently Denver was only interested in Orton and Quinn in return. When Cleveland backed out, there went Cutler to Da Bears.

Re: Dumb and Dumber, Vinny and Dan
 

[quote=WaldSkins;543066]I read that our offer was part of a three team deal that included Cleveland because Denver did not want Campbell. Apparently Denver was only interested in Orton and Quinn in return. When Cleveland backed out, there went Cutler to Da Bears.[/quote]

Ok, but again we just don't know the specifics. Cleveland backed out why? We weren't willing to offer what they wanted. They changed their mind. For me the most logical reason is we weren't willing to part with some piece of the puzzle. But again we just can't know.

Re: Dumb and Dumber, Vinny and Dan
 

[quote=FRPLG;543046]You have zero to support that.
I guess it doesn't take integrity to fly an entire organization to Fla for ST's funeral. Or no integrity to setup scholarship funds for his kid. Or no integrity to raise all the money he does in the fight against Breast Cancer. [B]Yeah, he's just an evil guy like all of America's rich white guys.[/B][/quote]

Ok that's just weird. But getting back to Snyder it's really not all about Cutler for me (i don't really understand why you wouldn't believe me there but ?). IMO his meddling makes him a lousy owner. And w/o someone of character Danny looks up to, Gibbs for instance, the poor guy just can't do [I]it[/I] right. We can disagree whether Williams would have made a good HC here, but I don't think an honest person can make the argument Snyder acted w/ integrity. I mean the "allegation" from high up in the franchise that Williams disrespected Joe Gibbs was the most childish, absurd thing I've heard in professional sports...word. Sure Williams is an tough-minded, arrogant SOB who probably wanted more or less total control, but never once throughout his career have I heard or read where he threw anyone under the bus.

...the stuff mentioned about charity and the Taylor tragedy...well my God I can't imagine an owner acting any differently than Snyder did and charity is just a part of life (or it should be). I would bet my life's income I give a higher % of what I earn to charity than Snyder, in fact I bet the figures aren't even close, but I still know I'm more or less a lousy bloke. I mean if you're looking for a successful person to look up to in this regard Snyder seems like a terrible choice...Gates maybe, Buffet for sure. Not Snyder.

Re: Dumb and Dumber, Vinny and Dan
 

[quote=SmootSmack;543044]I think some people decided long ago to hate him, and always hate him no matter what. Whatever[/quote]
I think your correct.
Snyder is a sawed-off little shit, self-made [B]billionaire[/B] with some ego. I think that rubs many the wrong way. I happen to think damn near everything he does is FOR the Skins in one way or another. Some things have blown up....many have not. Hate him, love him.........he BLEEDS Burgundy FAR more than any of us............

Re: Dumb and Dumber, Vinny and Dan
 

[quote=The Goat;543074]Ok that's just weird. But getting back to Snyder it's really not all about Cutler for me (i don't really understand why you wouldn't believe me there but ?). IMO his meddling makes him a lousy owner. And w/o someone of character Danny looks up to, Gibbs for instance, the poor guy just can't do [I]it[/I] right. We can disagree whether Williams would have made a good HC here, but I don't think an honest person can make the argument Snyder acted w/ integrity. I mean the "allegation" from high up in the franchise that Williams disrespected Joe Gibbs was the most childish, absurd thing I've heard in professional sports...word. Sure Williams is an tough-minded, arrogant SOB who probably wanted more or less total control, but never once throughout his career have I heard or read where he threw anyone under the bus.

...the stuff mentioned about charity and the Taylor tragedy...well my God I can't imagine an owner acting any differently than Snyder did and charity is just a part of life (or it should be). I would bet my life's income I give a higher % of what I earn to charity than Snyder, in fact I bet the figures aren't even close, but I still know I'm more or less a lousy bloke. I mean if you're looking for a successful person to look up to in this regard Snyder seems like a terrible choice...Gates maybe, Buffet for sure. Not Snyder.[/quote]You act like you KNOW exactly how those situations played out. I guarantee you you have no clue.

Re: Dumb and Dumber, Vinny and Dan
 

[quote=70Chip;543057]Oh come on now. Reasonable people can disagree and a reasonable person could have come to the conclusion [I]over time [/I]that he is bad for the Redskins . There have been many "last straws" over the years. This fiasco of publicly humiliating Campbell is only the latest. But until Obama starts firing NFL owners we're stuck with him.[/quote]

I don't know how Campbell was publicly humiliated quite honestly. But, either way, reasonable people can certainly disagree. And I think many people make valid points about Snyder's flaws. I'd like to say even I've expressed frustrations, but I'd guess most people forget that. Still, Spence's post is basically what I was referring to. He sucks and if you don't recognize that you're stupid (to paraphrase). Well that's great, but a post like that tells me you decided a while back that no matter what he does or doesn't do you will always hate him, and it's not even worth discussing it with people like that.

Re: Dumb and Dumber, Vinny and Dan
 

[quote=SmootSmack;543099]I don't know how Campbell was publicly humiliated quite honestly. But, either way, reasonable people can certainly disagree. And I think many people make valid points about Snyder's flaws. I'd like to say even I've expressed frustrations, but I'd guess most people forget that. Still, Spence's post is basically what I was referring to. He sucks and if you don't recognize that you're stupid (to paraphrase). Well that's great, but a post like that tells me you decided a while back that no matter what he does or doesn't do you will always hate him, and it's not even worth discussing it with people like that.[/quote]

The only way I can think is that the ownership and front office brass have tried to ship him, and no, that is not an assumption, but a stated fact, according to sources in New York City NFL offices, is humiliation in the fact that, no matter what Zorn says, the confidence in Ashburn is not very high for his ability to lead this franchise in the future. I can see that argument. But then again, I am not completely sold on Jason Campbell either. If you ask me if he has not shown the ability to lead this franchise for the next 7 to 10 years, I would say no. Lets see what he does in 2009, if he is still here.

Re: Dumb and Dumber, Vinny and Dan
 

[quote=Hog1;543080]I think your correct.
[B]Snyder is a sawed-off little shit, self-made billionaire with some ego. I think that rubs many the wrong way. [/B]I happen to think damn near everything he does is FOR the Skins in one way or another. Some things have blown up....many have not. Hate him, love him.........he BLEEDS Burgundy FAR more than any of us............[/quote]

For sure. Ego being the operative word. Some years ago (recently after he purchased the Skins), my father's law firm worked with Snyder Communications in some capacity, and he was lead attorney. He had several face-to-face meetings with The Danny. My Dad is a pretty reserved guy, and when I asked him what he thought of Snyder, without blinking he said "what an arrogant little piss-ant." I swear I think of that every time I see Snyder's face.

I'm not saying the man can never do right in my eyes, it's just a story that always sticks with me.

Re: Dumb and Dumber, Vinny and Dan
 

[quote=GMScud;543102]For sure. Ego being the operative word. Some years ago (recently after he purchased the Skins), my father's law firm worked with Snyder Communications in some capacity, and he was lead attorney. He had several face-to-face meetings with The Danny. My Dad is a pretty reserved guy, and when I asked him what he thought of Snyder, without blinking he said "what an arrogant little piss-ant." I swear I think of that every time I see Snyder's face.[/quote]

And the funny things is (from what I've heard) that he was the high school geek/dork at Charles Woodward HS in Bethesda. Maybe it's Danny's revenge?

Re: Dumb and Dumber, Vinny and Dan
 

I think Snyder wants the Redskins to be the best and has no problem spending whatever it takes to be just that. The ONLY problem I have with him, is when he doesn't leave personell decisions to the football people he has employed.

Re: Dumb and Dumber, Vinny and Dan
 

[quote=GMScud;543102]For sure. Ego being the operative word. Some years ago (recently after he purchased the Skins), my father's law firm worked with Snyder Communications in some capacity, and he was lead attorney. He had several face-to-face meetings with The Danny. My Dad is a pretty reserved guy, and when I asked him what he thought of Snyder, without blinking he said "what an arrogant little piss-ant." I swear I think of that every time I see Snyder's face.

I'm not saying the man can never do right in my eyes, it's just a story that always sticks with me.[/quote]

Snyder's not lacking for confidence, that's for sure. He's an intense guy, but he's a nicer guy (the very limited encounters I've had with him) than he seems to want to admit.

Re: Dumb and Dumber, Vinny and Dan
 

[quote=SmootSmack;543118]Snyder's not lacking for confidence, that's for sure. He's an intense guy, but he's a nicer guy (the very limited encounters I've had with him) than he seems to want to admit.[/quote]

Another thing I consider is that my dad's experiences with him were around 8 years ago. Danny is still a relatively young guy and I'm sure he's grown since then.

PS- My pops did mention that he has some kick-ass cigars.

Re: Dumb and Dumber, Vinny and Dan
 

I like Snyder to continue being the redskins owner...he wants nothing more than the best for the Skins. He is a brilliant bussiniess man. My compliments stop there.
Snyder is not a football man. He will never be a great evaluater of talent. He should not be involved in the personnel moves. Either you are born with it or you are not. A guy like Parcells has proven to have it...Snyder has proven he does [B]not [/B]have it.
We have gone nine years with Dan Snyder involved in personnel moves and our team has not done well on the field. Lets try with out him and see what happens. It can't hurt.

Re: Dumb and Dumber, Vinny and Dan
 

Here we go AGAIN. Just as I said I would.....Bears & Cutler!

We didn't pull the trigger, for whatever reason. No one here knows the inside of what went on or what we were going to put on the table (yet). The Bears stepped up and made a bad deal. The situation is over, I wish many of the people posting in this thread would have the same level of understanding of the situation and maturity as Jason Campbell and move the F on.

Can we focus on the draft and leave the DS & VC bashing to Peter King, et al.

Re: Dumb and Dumber, Vinny and Dan
 

[quote=Defensewins;543124]I like Snyder to continue being the redskins owner...he wants nothing more than the best for the Skins. He is a brilliant bussiniess man. My compliments stop there.
Snyder is not a football man. He will never be a great evaluater of talent. He should not be involved in the personnel moves. Either you are born with it or you are not. A guy like Parcells has proven to have it...Snyder has proven he does [B]not [/B]have it.
We have gone nine years with Dan Snyder involved in personnel moves and our team has not done well on the field. Lets try with out him and see what happens. It can't hurt.[/quote]

Snyder's problem isn't really evaluating talent because he actually rarely evaluates talent. His problem is he listens to too many people, as in he could be at a Six Flags board meeting and someone could say "I was watching Ohio State this weekend, and holy cow! did you all see Beanie Wells" and Snyder will think "I should ask Vinny and the rest of the guys back in Ashburn what are we doing about Beanie Wells." His other problem is being able to properly measure the value/worth of the talent. But, as I understand it, when he does his own evaluating (rare) he's not so bad.

Re: Dumb and Dumber, Vinny and Dan
 

[quote=FRPLG;543046]You have zero to support that.
I guess it doesn't take integrity to fly an entire organization to Fla for ST's funeral. Or no integrity to setup scholarship funds for his kid. Or no integrity to raise all the money he does in the fight against Breast Cancer. Yeah, he's just an evil guy like all of America's rich white guys.[/quote]
Don't forget sending Todd Collins on his plane so he could be there for his kids birth right before a game.

Re: Dumb and Dumber, Vinny and Dan
 

Voted 5 stars.

Would read again.

Re: Dumb and Dumber, Vinny and Dan
 

[quote=FRPLG;543046]You have zero to support that.
I guess it doesn't take integrity to fly an entire organization to Fla for ST's funeral. Or no integrity to setup scholarship funds for his kid. Or no integrity to raise all the money he does in the fight against Breast Cancer. Yeah, he's just an evil guy like all of America's rich white guys.[/quote]

No one saying Snyder's a horrible person or the second coming of Stalin, mate. The debate is that he is a horrible owner.

Dan's decade long ineptitude is proof positive of that. Case in point: firing Marty (after winning eight out of his last eleven games) to hire "Spurious." Soley because Marty wouldn't let him play GM. Continually playing real life Fantasy Football forsaking continuity and depth. To name just a few bone head moves.