Re: Poll: Pick a knucklehead
 

[quote=GMScud;563177]Seriously. Kill some dogs, get 2 years in federal prison. Kill a man, get 30 days in the state lockup. That's a joke.[/quote]

I think the biggest difference, is the immediate remorse. Remember, Vick was basically dragged kicking and screaming into court, denying and delaying as long as possible. Seems to me like Stallworth "man upped" and accepted responsibility. In the courts eyes that often times makes a huge difference in sentencing.

Re: Poll: Pick a knucklehead
 

[quote=Paintrain;563170]I won't start a thread over the double standard of the lack of outcry for Stallworth to be banned for life from football when he took a human's life vs. the Vick outcry, but yeah I was stunned to see 30 days in jail, plus 2 years house arrest (in which he can still play football, of course) and probation.[/quote]
Without completely hijacking the thread, what Stallworth did was unintentional. When the accident happened he stopped, took full responsibility and cooperated with police. Goodell hasn't metted out any punishment yet, but I would like to see some sort of suspension for a significant time. 30 days in jail for DUI manslaughter sounds like a very light sentence.

What Vick did was completely intentional, cold-hearted and sick and happened over a period of years. He lied to the Falcons and NFL about it. It's not like Vick got drunk and ran into a dog pound accidently.

Re: Poll: Pick a knucklehead
 

[quote=MonkFan4Life;563134][B]THANK YOU !!!! [/B]

I swear I get sick and tired of every excuse in the world thrown out there for Jason Campbell. He doesn't have a line but there is enough of a line for Portis to go over 1,000. The Defense needs to give him better chances by creating turnovers. I mean let's be serious. And I say that to say this, it would be Vick. You could get me all the receivers in the world but until we have someone that will throw that ball then it won't matter. I'd love to have Brandon but if you won't throw the ball then there's no point. Get me Vick, so the guys I have now can feel as though the ball might come their way when they run down the field.[/quote]Ah yes, Vick would be a much better passing option than JC.....:Flush:

Re: Poll: Pick a knucklehead
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;563193]Ah yes, Vick would be a much better passing option than JC.....:Flush:[/quote]

:laughing- Can you imagine Vick starting for us last year? Receivers running the wrong routes, the line breaking down, and Vick at the helm? It would've looked like the Keystone Kops out there.

Re: Poll: Pick a knucklehead
 

[quote=53Fan;563194]:laughing- Can you imagine Vick starting for us last year? Receivers running the wrong routes, the line breaking down, and Vick at the helm? It would've looked like the Keystone Kops out there.[/quote]
Not only that, but we would've likely been in position to draft Sanchez (ugh) rather than have Orakpo fall to us.

Re: Poll: Pick a knucklehead
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;563195]Not only that, but we would've likely been in position to draft Sanchez (ugh) rather than have Orakpo fall to us.[/quote]

I don't even want to think about that. Thank God it didn't happen.

Re: Poll: Pick a knucklehead
 

[quote=GMScud;563165]I'm glad the family is being financially taken care of, but only 30 days in jail?? You can get drunk and run a guy over and only spend a month in jail? Wow.[/quote]

From what I heard it wasn't quite that simple. Basically it sounds like the incident was the pedestrian's fault. The problem is that when a pedestrian makes a mistake and a car is involved, it is usually their last one...

Re: Poll: Pick a knucklehead
 

[quote=GMScud;563177]Seriously. Kill some dogs, get 2 years in federal prison. Kill a man, get 30 days in the state lockup. That's a joke.[/quote]

It was acknowleged that the Vick situation was a witchunt. If he wasn't a famous person he probably wouldn't have served a day.

Re: Poll: Pick a knucklehead
 

[quote=Pocket$ $traight;563200]It was acknowleged that the Vick situation was a witchunt. If he wasn't a famous person he probably wouldn't have served a day.[/quote]

What? People go to to prison for dogfighting, famous or not.

Re: Poll: Pick a knucklehead
 

[quote=SmootSmack;563203]What? People go to to prison for dogfighting, famous or not.[/quote]

I vividly remember experts talking on sports radio about how the severity of Vick's sentence was unusual, especially given his lack of prior convictions.

Most people don't have PETA outside their courthouse when they show up for trial.

Re: Poll: Pick a knucklehead
 

[quote=Pocket$ $traight;563206]I vividly remember experts talking on sports radio about how the severity of Vick's sentence was unusual, especially given his lack of prior convictions.

Most people don't have PETA outside their courthouse when they show up for trial.[/quote]
The "experts" on whatever show you were listening to didn't know WTF they were talking about. Vick's sentence was mid-range of the sentencing guidelines. Considering he was the leader of a dogfighting organization, he probably got off with a light sentence.

In VA Dogfighting is a Class 6 Felony with a max sentence of 5 years and $ 2,500 fine.

[URL="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/08/21/AR2007082101888.html"]Dogfighting Laws - washingtonpost.com[/URL]

[URL="http://www.hsus.org/acf/fighting/dogfight/ranking_state_dogfighting_laws.html#va"]Ranking of State Dogfighting Laws | The Humane Society of the United States[/URL]

Re: Poll: Pick a knucklehead
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;563211]The "experts" on whatever show you were listening to didn't know WTF they were talking about. Vick's sentence was mid-range of the sentencing guidelines. Considering he was the leader of a dogfighting organization, he probably got off with a light sentence.

In VA Dogfighting is a Class 6 Felony with a max sentence of 5 years and $ 2,500 fine.

[URL="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/08/21/AR2007082101888.html"]Dogfighting Laws - washingtonpost.com[/URL]

[URL="http://www.hsus.org/acf/fighting/dogfight/ranking_state_dogfighting_laws.html#va"]Ranking of State Dogfighting Laws | The Humane Society of the United States[/URL][/quote]


Well Wikipedia said that his co-conspirators received sentences longer than the prosecutors requested and his was longer than theirs. The failed drug test and the fact that it didn't appear that he was fully cooperating with officials added time.

The max is five years. Most people never get the maximum for anything.

Re: Poll: Pick a knucklehead
 

[quote=Pocket$ $traight;563217]Well Wikipedia said that his co-conspirators received sentences longer than the prosecutors requested and his was longer than theirs. The failed drug test and the fact that it didn't appear that he was fully cooperating with officials added time.

The max is five years. Most people never get the maximum for anything.[/quote]
Vick's sentence was in-line with other sentences given out for others committing a similar crime. The judge in this case was a very "by-the-book" judge, he determined the sentence. His credibility and judgement has not been called into question by those who understand the legal system and sentencing.

Re: Poll: Pick a knucklehead
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;563219]Vick's sentence was in-line with other sentences given out for others committing a similar crime. The judge in this case was a very "by-the-book" judge, he determined the sentence. His credibility and judgement has not been called into question by those who understand the legal system and sentencing.[/quote]

I am not saying the judge was unusually harsh. What was unusual was that the feds even got involved.

From what I remember, the local authorities were going to ignore it then the public outcry began to swirl. So the feds stepped in because they already had an ongoing investigation on one of the co-conspirators and then the transporting of dogs over state lines etc gave them an avenue to move forward. VA piled on after the feds were moving forward against him.

Re: Poll: Pick a knucklehead
 

[quote=Pocket$ $traight;563222]I am not saying the judge was unusually harsh. [B]What was unusual was that the feds even got involved.[/B]

From what I remember, the local authorities were going to ignore it then the public outcry began to swirl. So the feds stepped in because they already had an ongoing investigation on one of the co-conspirators and then the transporting of dogs over state lines etc gave them an avenue to move forward. VA piled on after the feds were moving forward against him.[/quote]Correct on the bolded point. Your take is right on. Many here in Hampton Roads (and obviously at the Fed level) felt the local prosecutor Poindexter was going to sweep this under the rug when the investigation appeared to be slowing to a crawl. The Feds and State (correctly IMO) jumped in to make sure this was prosecuted correctly and Vick & crew punished. When Poindexter saw the public opinion going against him and he had a re-election coming up is when he changed his tune and piled-on.

Re: Poll: Pick a knucklehead
 

[quote=Pocket$ $traight;563217]Well Wikipedia said that his co-conspirators received sentences longer than the prosecutors requested and his was longer than theirs. The failed drug test and the fact that it didn't appear that he was fully cooperating with officials added time.

The max is five years. Most people never get the maximum for anything.[/quote]

Max is five years unless you're this [url=http://network.bestfriends.org/stopbsl/news/20725.html]guy[/url]

Re: Poll: Pick a knucklehead
 

I am suprised that most of you would rather have an unproven Brandon Marshall, than Plax, who has carried NY on his back and to a SuperBowl win, very interesting...

Re: Poll: Pick a knucklehead
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;563228]Correct on the bolded point. Your take is right on. Many here in Hampton Roads (and obviously at the Fed level) felt the local prosecutor Poindexter was going to sweep this under the rug when the investigation appeared to be slowing to a crawl. The Feds and State (correctly IMO) jumped in to make sure this was prosecuted correctly and Vick & crew punished.[B] When Poindexter saw the public opinion going against him and he had a re-election coming up is when he changed his tune and piled-on[/B].[/quote]

Exactly. Poindexter was pretty belligerant with reporters about investigating the case until the feds stepped in. He said there wasn't anything to the case and practically refused to investigate. He looked like the idiot that he is when charges were pressed by the feds.

Re: Poll: Pick a knucklehead
 

I'll trade the broncos 1 Moss and 1 Randle El for 1 Marshall.

Re: Poll: Pick a knucklehead
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;563190]Without completely hijacking the thread, what Stallworth did was unintentional. When the accident happened he stopped, took full responsibility and cooperated with police. Goodell hasn't metted out any punishment yet, but I would like to see some sort of suspension for a significant time. 30 days in jail for DUI manslaughter sounds like a very light sentence.

What Vick did was completely intentional, cold-hearted and sick and happened over a period of years. He lied to the Falcons and NFL about it. It's not like Vick got drunk and ran into a dog pound accidently.[/quote]

Intent or no intent, IMO people>animals. I am a dog owner and pet lover but the comparison is absurd.

Re: Poll: Pick a knucklehead
 

[quote=Paintrain;563246]Intent or no intent, IMO people>animals. I am a dog owner and pet lover but the comparison is absurd.[/quote]
Agreed 100% people > animals. If there is any outrage it should be focused on the lack of sentence in FL for the DUI manslaughter, rather than Vick's 23 months. If someone killed a loved one of mine in a DUI I'd sure expect a sentence tougher than 30 days.

The NFL punishment is a separate issue. Should Stallworth be banned from the NFL for lack of judgement on one night that resulted in an accidental death. He fully cooperated with the police, accepted responsibility, and reached an out-of-court financial settlement with the family. What damage to the NFL would occur if he was only suspended for a year and allowed to return. I don't think any.

Should the NFL ban Vick for the damage he did to the league and for willfully carrying on this venture for many years in direct violation of his NFL contract, then lying to his team and the NFL about it? I believe reinstating Vick would cause a PR backlash and result in some financial loss of ad revenue or corporate sponsorships. In the grand scheme of things the financial impact would probably be minor to the NFL. The willful disregard for the NFL's rules and policies needs to be considered as well. The NFL is a business entity, and as such it needs at look at the damage each incident caused to its business and how the disciplinary actions to each player effect its future business. If you look at the result of each players actions [B]only[/B] to determine the correct punishment by the NFL, rather than the surrounding circumstances it would be a mistake.

On a moral scale; have you ever driven after a few beers/drinks? I hate to admit it, but I have made that mistake in the past. I thank God I didn't hurt anyone, but it's possible I could have. Have you ever trained dogs for dog-fighting, attended many dog-fights and watch them bite and tear each other apart, have you killed dogs who didn't "perform well" by electrocution, slamming them on the ground, drowing etc. I'm sure you haven't. Could you do those things? I'm sure you couldn't. The heartlessness and inhumanity in what Vick did is sickening to most people. What Stallworth did is an accident that could've happened to many people.

Re: Poll: Pick a knucklehead
 

how about ryan leaf, i rob someone and the nfl at the sametime, or mark-chu-mura lil girl panties, or bill i ro-over my wife and beat her senseless moniski, bret make up your ****ing mind......farve, jeff, im curious, how the **** you got starter money george. now thats funny

Re: Poll: Pick a knucklehead
 

[quote=Paintrain;562983]

So who would you choose?[/quote]

Plexico...

I hate Brandon Marshall.
He hits women.

Vick would create QB issue

Re: Poll: Pick a knucklehead
 

Marshall is the best in terms of age and talent, but the price would be too steep. I would want Plax because I'm still not sold on the young WRs being ready yet so he is a proven guy that can be good for a couple years and the cost wouldn't be too bad. I don't think Vick is ready to play in the NFL and he wouldn't help us at all.

Re: Poll: Pick a knucklehead
 

Michael Vick has "P.R." issues, Brandon Marshall has "T.O." issues and Plaxico Burress has "O.J." issues. I wouldn't want to see any of them in a Redskin uniform.

Re: Poll: Pick a knucklehead
 

[quote=hail_2_da_skins;563311]Michael Vick has "P.R." issues, Brandon Marshall has "T.O." issues and Plaxico Burress has "O.J." issues. I wouldn't want to see any of them in a Redskin uniform.[/quote]

You missed the point, 'none' wasn't an option. If you HAD to pick one, who would it be?

Re: Poll: Pick a knucklehead
 

[quote=Slingin Sammy 33;563250]Agreed 100% people > animals. If there is any outrage it should be focused on the lack of sentence in FL for the DUI manslaughter, rather than Vick's 23 months. If someone killed a loved one of mine in a DUI I'd sure expect a sentence tougher than 30 days.

The NFL punishment is a separate issue. Should Stallworth be banned from the NFL for lack of judgement on one night that resulted in an accidental death. He fully cooperated with the police, accepted responsibility, and reached an out-of-court financial settlement with the family. What damage to the NFL would occur if he was only suspended for a year and allowed to return. I don't think any.

Should the NFL ban Vick for the damage he did to the league and for willfully carrying on this venture for many years in direct violation of his NFL contract, then lying to his team and the NFL about it? I believe reinstating Vick would cause a PR backlash and result in some financial loss of ad revenue or corporate sponsorships. In the grand scheme of things the financial impact would probably be minor to the NFL. The willful disregard for the NFL's rules and policies needs to be considered as well. The NFL is a business entity, and as such it needs at look at the damage each incident caused to its business and how the disciplinary actions to each player effect its future business. If you look at the result of each players actions [B]only[/B] to determine the correct punishment by the NFL, rather than the surrounding circumstances it would be a mistake.

On a moral scale; have you ever driven after a few beers/drinks? I hate to admit it, but I have made that mistake in the past. I thank God I didn't hurt anyone, but it's possible I could have. Have you ever trained dogs for dog-fighting, attended many dog-fights and watch them bite and tear each other apart, have you killed dogs who didn't "perform well" by electrocution, slamming them on the ground, drowing etc. I'm sure you haven't. Could you do those things? I'm sure you couldn't. The heartlessness and inhumanity in what Vick did is sickening to most people. What Stallworth did is an accident that could've happened to many people.[/quote]

I guess I see it as both of them used poor judgment. Both knew what they were doing was wrong when they did it. Both made a conscious choice that drove (no pun intended) their actions. Both faced consequences and are subject to punishment thru the legal system. Both are killers. One will get a virtual pass among fans because 'it could/has happened to all of us' even though he killed another human. I just don't really get that I guess.

Re: Poll: Pick a knucklehead
 

I don't want any of them but if I have to choose, I guess I'd take Plaxico. I think Marshall will completely implode one day. Plax has shot himself, Vick has been to prison, I think there's more to come for Marshall. He hasn't hit his bottom yet. Pick a knucklehead is the perfect thread title for these guys.

Re: Poll: Pick a knucklehead
 

I wouldnt want Plax, he never changed when he left Pittsburgh.. too much of a distraction

Id rather have Marshall if i had to take one. Young guy who is a beast on the field.

Re: Poll: Pick a knucklehead
 

[quote=WaldSkins;563240]I'll trade the broncos 1 Moss and 1 Randle El for 1 Marshall.[/quote]As would I, but that's not remotely realistic. I don't think our cap could cover that, nor does that really offer Denver anything they can use to replace Marshall.

Re: Poll: Pick a knucklehead
 

Marshall seems to imply he and Bowlen agree he's got to go

[url=http://www.bmarshall15.com/blog/?p=142#more-142]BMarshall #15 » Clearing the Air…[/url]

Re: Poll: Pick a knucklehead
 

[quote=Paintrain;563316]I guess I see it as both of them used poor judgment. Both knew what they were doing was wrong when they did it. Both made a conscious choice that drove (no pun intended) their actions. Both faced consequences and are subject to punishment thru the legal system. Both are killers. One will get a virtual pass among fans because 'it could/has happened to all of us' even though he killed another human. I just don't really get that I guess.[/quote]

I agree I don't get that logic either.

Re: Poll: Pick a knucklehead
 

How does one misspell the name of a player when the name of that player is at the top of the page?

Re: Poll: Pick a knucklehead
 

Marshall on the terms of talent alone

once we get into contract and other stuff though who knows

Re: Poll: Pick a knucklehead
 

[quote=GMScud;563165]I'm glad the family is being financially taken care of, but only 30 days in jail?? You can get drunk and run a guy over and only spend a month in jail? Wow.[/quote]

I'm not advocating drunken driving by any means but if someone runs out in front of you there's only so much you can do, even if you are sober.

Re: Poll: Pick a knucklehead
 

Hard to say. Both Burress and Marshall are ballers.

As far as Vick goes I don't think I would use him as our starting QB. I would utilize him more on plays like the Wild Cat or find a way to give him the ball on screen plays due to his ability to make people miss. Vicks issues had to deal with animals and I don't see him doing that again. I think he has learned his lesson. His major plus is he's been let go so he would cost us virtualy nothing other then signing him.

I like Burress but honestly I think he's going to do time. Now the question is will he be given the minimum sentence for jail and can the Judge suspend any of it. How much is manditory? I'd hate to have him for 2-3 games only to have him go to jail for a few yrs. Burress was stupid enough to have an unregistered gun on his person, out at a club. My concern is what was he intending to do? Intentions lead me to believe he was using it for protection which means he was intending to shoot someone if need be. That means hurting another individual. That concerns me a little. His up side is he would cost nothing also except for his signing.

I also like Marshall, but his issues are domestic related. wrestling with a cousin and getting injured and cutting an artery causing him to have a numb hand. He has had several domestic issues with his wife some having charges dropped. His down side is he's going to cost a mint. I'm guessing atleast for us a draft pick considering he's their top WR. He hits like a defensive player and likes to make contact and get yards after the catch. He's a solid play maker. I'll vote Marshall as long as we can part with a draft pick fully knowing we will have Moss, ARE, Thomas, Kelly, and to have him would make our WR corpse awsome. He would definitly have to be talked to about Virginia laws and any domistic issues. Virginia would chew him up depending on the Commonwealth's Attorneys and the Judges in the county he lives in.

Re: Poll: Pick a knucklehead
 

[quote=SmootSmack;563387]Marshall seems to imply he and Bowlen agree he's got to go

[URL="http://www.bmarshall15.com/blog/?p=142#more-142"]BMarshall #15 » Clearing the Air…[/URL][/quote]

The NFL network quoted Denver as saying they would actively shop Marshall but it does not mean they will or feel they have to.

Re: Poll: Pick a knucklehead
 

Picking from this list i would pick Brandon Marshall the younger of the 3. We badly need a big time WR to give other teams defenses to game plan for.

Re: Poll: Pick a knucklehead
 

Denver's got plenty of incentive to sell high on their passing game while it still has value. Clearly, with their OL and Moreno, McDaniels is going to make his mark while running the football. So why not take the stray pieces of the passing game, and trade them to teams willing to throw first rounders at young, but unaccomplished talent?

Re: Poll: Pick a knucklehead
 

[quote=Paintrain;563246]Intent or no intent, IMO people>animals. I am a dog owner and pet lover but the comparison is absurd.[/quote]
What if it was a dog that ran out in front of the car?