Re: WR Depth Chart
 

What we all have to remember is this is a reporter saying this not JZ, and all reports coming out of TC are the battle is close between DT & MK. I want all our WR's to do great it allows JC to have much more weapons.

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[quote=wilsowilso;579878]Devin Thomas better watch out or he will be watching from the sidelines and if he gets demoted back that far to #5 I promise you he will sulk and his development with this team will be at an end. Not that I care that much because I never thought he was any good.

Happy for him to prove me wrong, but the [B]dude is just too stiff.[/B] No fluidity at all.[/quote]

I always thought that too, he looks more like a running back, doesn't seem that agile. Maybe he just looks that way due to his bulk?

That was a tough grab he made sat. night from collins. Otherwise, he looks hesitant/lost. His body language doesn't look assertive at all. Hopefully, he'll step up. I agree w/you that he may be a problem if he is demoted.

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Of course we'd all like to see MM have a colston like year, but if he makes the 53 & gets on the field some as the 4 or 5 wr, that is stellar for a 7th round pick that Vinny said is still "raw."

This is a perfect example of why you need to keep & acquire more draft picks; a guy you draft in the 7th might turn out to compete for time w/a couple guys you draft in the 2nd. If Rob Jackson & Horton continue to play well, that's pretty good success rate for the last couple years in the 7th.

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everyone needs to chill on the marko mitchell bandwagon....including myself. he had a nice game against some 3rd teamers. what we're hearing in practice is very encouraging. one thing i like is he's not backing down from the db's in practice and then he did it in a game. but let's see how he does the next two weeks before we crown him the next colston. lol.

Re: WR Depth Chart
 

Do you guys think we could have the second coming of the "posse" here. God it has been so long since we have had more than one WR that has had good production. Since Gibbs 2.0 arrived it's the Portis, Cooley, Moss Show. I would love to see a second coming of Monk, Clark, and Sanders.

Could this group have the talent. Breaking it down Clark = Moss, Monk= Kelly, Clark = Are. I was a kid back in the 80's but I remember that Clark was our deep threat. Monk was the man in the middle who caught everything ( he seemed to be the guy who always converted on third downs and my personal favorite of the 3 ). Sanders I can't seem to remeber what he did best other than being on the field making plays. I still remember those guys all putting up a 1000 yards in one season. Man those were the days. The days when we were feared and always talked about as being one of the best teams in football. I long for that once again. :)

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[quote=skinsfan69;579986]everyone needs to chill on the marko mitchell bandwagon....including myself. he had a nice game against some 3rd teamers. what we're hearing in practice is very encouraging. one thing i like is he's not backing down from the db's in practice and then he did it in a game. but let's see how he does the next two weeks before we crown him the next colston. lol.[/quote]

He was actually in the game and contributing earlier than the "3rd teamer" defense.

Marko looks like the real deal.

Re: WR Depth Chart
 

[quote=skinsfan69;579986]everyone needs to chill on the marko mitchell bandwagon....including myself. he had a nice game against some 3rd teamers. what we're hearing in practice is very encouraging. one thing i like is he's not backing down from the db's in practice and then he did it in a game. but let's see how he does the next two weeks before we crown him the next colston. lol.[/quote]

I agree 100%. I mean I don't think he's necessarily this year's version of Billy McMullen. But let's see some more out of him, blocking, catching the ball in traffic, running after the catch, knowing where the first down marker is before we get too carried away.

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[quote=SmootSmack;580005]I agree 100%. I mean I don't think he's necessarily this year's version of Billy McMullen. But let's see some more out of him, blocking, catching the ball in traffic, running after the catch, knowing where the first down marker is before we get too carried away.[/quote]

he's already done more than taylor jacobs ever has, and we talked him up for two solid years.

and he's shown more promise than devin thomas for that matter, as sad as that may be.

he didn't just get a lucky TD, he consciously set it up and showed real ups for that thing. if he can do that a couple more times, he deserves time on the field.

but talking about him being the #2 at this point is pretty premature. first he has to get that #5 spot.

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[quote=That Guy;580067]but talking about him being the #2 at this point is pretty premature. first he has to get that #5 spot.[/quote]

That's basically what I was trying to get at

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I'm not sure how this will all play out, but i think at this time next year, its entirely possible Mitchell will be ahead of Kelly and Thomas on the depth chart. If nothing else, the emergence of Mitchell has ensure that ARE will be cut after the 2009 season (Please, no one tell me his cap number makes him uncuttable - the revised contract he signed this offseason makes him [I]very [/I]cuttable if the skins chose not to excercise an option to extend him through something like 2015 if memory serves me).

My early prediction for 2010 is that our starting WR's will be Moss and Mitchell/Kelly, with Moss moving into the slot in 3WR sets and Mitchell and Kelly lining up on the outside.

As of right now, I only see Thomas getting extended playing time if one of our other 3 WRs get hurt... which is a strong possiblility with Kelly and Moss.

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[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;580074]I'm not sure how this will all play out, but i think at this time next year, its entirely possible Mitchell will be ahead of Kelly and Thomas on the depth chart. If nothing else, the emergence of Mitchell has ensure that ARE will be cut after the 2009 season (Please, no one tell me his cap number makes him uncuttable - the revised contract he signed this offseason makes him [I]very [/I]cuttable if the skins chose not to excercise an option to extend him through something like 2015 if memory serves me).

My early prediction for 2010 is that our starting WR's will be Moss and Mitchell/Kelly, with Moss moving into the slot in 3WR sets and Mitchell and Kelly lining up on the outside.

As of right now, I only see Thomas getting extended playing time if one of our other 3 WRs get hurt... which is a strong possiblility with Kelly and Moss.[/quote]

Where have you been BHA? Did you have to serve a bid?

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[quote=artmonkforhallofamein07;580003]Could this group have the talent. [B]Breaking it down Clark = Moss, Monk= Kelly, Clark = Are.[/B] [/quote]Did we manage to clone Gary Clark :). I think our current group can be effective but I don't think ARE has the same explosiveness or talent as Sanders. Monk did everything well, block, run routes, catch, and was a quiet lead-by-example team leader, Kelly has some HoF shoes to fill there. Clark and Moss are a good comparison, speed-wise very similar, but I think Clark was a better route-runner and had a little more "nastyness" to him.

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lol... yeah maybe not, typo by me.. anyway those guys have a looooong way to go before anyone can annoint them as the second coming of the posse... ohh how I miss the glory days.

And no I don't think ARE = Sanders or Kelly = Monk. But a man can dream can't he!

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[quote=Trample the Elderly;580084]Where have you been BHA? Did you have to serve a bid?[/quote]

Haha, no. Its been a combination of being REALLY busy at work, the IT people monitoring our internet useage, and not too much of significance going on with the skins. Right now, Desire to talk about the Skins>Fear of IT people. haha. It will probably still be a month or so before things at work slow down, but I should be around here a bit more as time goes on.

Re: WR Depth Chart
 

[quote=NYCskinfan82;579957]If you remember when they drafted DT he was the better WR but was very raw[/quote]

These are pretty much opposing ideas. Thomas was just plain raw. Not at all accomplished as a WR.

Malcolm Kelly was light years ahead of Thomas in terms of being a high quality WR on film, but Thomas had outstanding measurables so he got hit with the "big upside" tag. If you watch all of the college film on Devin Thomas and Malcolm Kelly it's easy to see who was the far better WR coming out of college.

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I believe if DT wasnt a former 2nd round pick that he would be struggling to make the team. The bigger investment comes first at any position. Its all business.

Re: WR Depth Chart
 

you don't take one year wonder college WRs... the track record is just abysmal.

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I want all/any of the WR's to step up, but watch your mouth DT might make you eat those words.

Re: WR Depth Chart
 

I know a lot of you dont care for PFT, but they are even picking up on Devin Thomas not living up to his potential and that MM, LL, M Mitch, LM, ML could possible pass him on the depth chart in time, as we all have mentioned.

[url=http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2009/08/26/devin-thomas-sliding-down-depth-chart/]Devin Thomas sliding down depth chart? | ProFootballTalk.com[/url]

If this doesnt light a fire under DT then nothing will. I hope that Mitchell does great and like most everyone else could care less about his college or pedigree. Devin Thomas did pretty good on kickoff coverage last year so i think we will keep him for a several more years even if he continues to show poorly in games as a wr. Some WR make very slow transitions to the nfl, and if Devin happens to be one thats fine as long as he can help out in other areas. Lets all hope that eventually we have all DT, MK, and MM all in a legitimate fight to be our number 1 and 2 one day.

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Wait, wait, wait? How many catches do Cooley, Moss, and ARE have so far after only 2 preseason games? No one is questioning their production. Give it time before you start throwing guys under the bus. Last season Sinorice Moss had more receptions and yards than Santanna in the season opener. Who finished with the better season?

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Guess it took all of 2-3 weeks for DT's stock to bottom out huh?

LOL give me a break.

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[quote=Mattyk72;580295]Guess it took all of 2-3 weeks for DT's stock to bottom out huh?

LOL give me a break.[/quote]I agree it's ridiculous, but only because if you've seen it from my perspective the whole way, it was more along the lines of, "what exactly has this guy done to deserve a shot at the No. 2 WR job."

I think it's ridiculous the way a players stock fluctuates in the pre-season, but that goes both ways.

Re: WR Depth Chart
 

[quote=Angry;580289]Wait, wait, wait? How many catches do Cooley, Moss, and ARE have so far after only 2 preseason games? No one is questioning their production. Give it time before you start throwing guys under the bus. Last season Sinorice Moss had more receptions and yards than Santanna in the season opener. Who finished with the better season?[/quote]

Good words we need to remember it's preseason.

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HOLD ON -- One game, one TD against 3rd team scrubs and now we should drop DT for our 7th rounder? Rookies usually struggle with running routes, press coverage, & the speed of the game... I think it'd be hard for him to top Kelly & Thomas, but I do think he has a lot of potential.

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[quote=ethat001;580363]HOLD ON -- One game, one TD against 3rd team scrubs and now we should drop DT for our 7th rounder? Rookies usually struggle with running routes, press coverage, & the speed of the game... I think it'd be hard for him to top Kelly & Thomas, but I do think he has a lot of potential.[/quote]

Its all about what you do on the field and thus far DT has not done much. I expected after hearing all of the raves from camp that this guy would come out and have a nice showing. But yeah it is a business so i dont think it matters how much Marko does, he wont be in the top 3-4 of our wrs because of the money DT is making.

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when we drafted DT i was against it, cause 1 year wonders tend to show poorly in the nfl... and the reason is they come in without enough experience and get put in a situation where they won't get on the field much - so instead of a 2nd or 3rd year playing as many snaps as they feel like in college, they're riding the bench in the nfl.

he might be good, but he wasn't last year, and i'd be shocked if he has more than 400 yards this year, if that. maybe next year, maybe the year after, but that lost college time really tends to take a while to up to where he should be.

look at santana moss or cooley - both did their time at college and played a LOT, with great production over multiple seasons, and have been successful here.

DT could just be a delayed case, he has speed and quickness, but the lack of experience has shown in a lot of mental errors etc thusfar.

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[quote=That Guy;580374]when we drafted DT i was against it, cause 1 year wonders tend to show poorly in the nfl... and the reason is they come in without enough experience and get put in a situation where they won't get on the field much - so instead of a 2nd or 3rd year playing as many snaps as they feel like in college, they're riding the bench in the nfl.

he might be good, but he wasn't last year, and i'd be shocked if he has more than 400 yards this year, if that. maybe next year, maybe the year after, but that lost college time really tends to take a while to up to where he should be.

look at santana moss or cooley - both did their time at college and played a LOT, with great production over multiple seasons, and have been successful here.

DT could just be a delayed case, he has speed and quickness, but the lack of experience has shown in a lot of mental errors etc thusfar.[/quote]That, and this game is just brutal on players with little college experience. It's not that they can't succeed, it's that they get almost no help in their development.

Look at Alex Smith. 16 starts at Utah, showed all of the mental abilities of an NFL quarterback, got drafted first overall, and was starting against us 5 weeks later.

In baseball, a college draftee who gets 500-600 PAs in the minors is "rushed". In football, a top 50 pick who isn't ready to contribute after a month of training camp and four preseason games has taken the first step towards being a bust.

You can draft guys with limited college experience, just don't do it high, or in place of a guy who can actually fill a hole.

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Rookie season stats:
Steve Smith (CAR) - 10 catches, 154 yards
TJ Houshmandzadeh - 21 catches, 228 yards
Devin Hester - 0 catches, 0 yards
Santana Moss - 2 catches, 40 yards
Steve Smith (NYG) - 8 catches, 63 yards
Steve Breaston - 8 catches, 92 yards
Donald Driver - 3 catches, 31 yards
Bernard Berrian - 15 catches, 225 yards

-----------------------------------------

Malcolm Kelly - 3 catches, 18 yards
Devin Thomas - 15 catches, 120 yards

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Checking out the replay of the Eagles/Jags game on NFL Network...

Seeing Deshean Jackson last year and Jeremy Maclin in this game makes me jealous. It would be so cool to have a nice passing game with contributing young WRs. I really hope it happens for us this year.

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[quote=mlmpetert;580447]Rookie season stats:
Steve Smith (CAR) - 10 catches, 154 yards
TJ Houshmandzadeh - 21 catches, 228 yards
Devin Hester - 0 catches, 0 yards
Santana Moss - 2 catches, 40 yards
Steve Smith (NYG) - 8 catches, 63 yards
Steve Breaston - 8 catches, 92 yards
Donald Driver - 3 catches, 31 yards
Bernard Berrian - 15 catches, 225 yards

-----------------------------------------

Malcolm Kelly - 3 catches, 18 yards
Devin Thomas - 15 catches, 120 yards[/quote]

and, besides devin, who's not a great example or a great WR, how many of those guys only had one good year of college?

i know TJ and smith and moss all started multiple years and had more than one decent year. MK had 3 years of over 800 yards i believe, BB had 750 his sophmore year, 1300+ the next year, redshirted, and i forget his senoir year stats, but that's 5 years in college football.

breaston started 4 years at michigan right? and had 7 200 yard games there. driver had 2000 yards at alcorn state, was mainly a track + field guy, got drafted in the 7th round and took until his 4th year to be any good (keenan mccardell took 4 years too if i remember correctly).

it'd be better not to have to wait 4 years to see if your draft pick is a total bust, since that's roster spots and money wasted, but that's what it looks like is going to happen with DT.

remember taylor jacobs? one college 1000 yard year, bounced around the league for 5 seasons, career stats: 37 for 384 and 2 tds. 2nd round pick too.

I think DT is a LOT better than that, but he's raw.

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What is quite interesting that if Kelly beats out Thomas for the starting flanker possition then Thomas will automatically fall to No.4. Because he will not start in the slot ahead of ARE .

That said I think Thomas will still see plenty of action and it would be nice to have 5 WR on the roster who are not just filling a uniform .

If Mitchell can latch on at No 5 and contribute something especially in the DREADED red zone then I will be happy ...

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[quote=That Guy;580726]and, besides devin, who's not a great example or a great WR, how many of those guys only had one good year of college?

i know TJ and smith and moss all started multiple years and had more than one decent year. MK had 3 years of over 800 yards i believe, BB had 750 his sophmore year, 1300+ the next year, redshirted, and i forget his senoir year stats, but that's 5 years in college football.

[B]breaston started 4 years at michigan right? and had 7 200 yard games there.[/B] driver had 2000 yards at alcorn state, was mainly a track + field guy, got drafted in the 7th round and took until his 4th year to be any good (keenan mccardell took 4 years too if i remember correctly).

it'd be better not to have to wait 4 years to see if your draft pick is a total bust, since that's roster spots and money wasted, but that's what it looks like is going to happen with DT.

remember taylor jacobs? one college 1000 yard year, bounced around the league for 5 seasons, career stats: 37 for 384 and 2 tds. 2nd round pick too.

I think DT is a LOT better than that, but he's raw.[/quote]

That's the only statement that isn't exactly true. Steve Breaston was mostly a return guy at Michigan and he played there for 3 years. He had seasons of 291, 291, and then 670 receiving yards. His 200 yard games were all purpose when he was killing it on returns. To me, he looked like he'd be another Desmond Howard, but everyone in the league was smart enough not to take him in the first or second round (he went in the 5th) and let him develop his skills as a wide out.

About Devin Thomas, I hope the guy is able to get onto the field and make an impact at some point in his Redskins career. As of now, I don't get why he'd plummet this far, but I guess coaches are seeing something I'm not.

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[quote=GMScud;580715]Checking out the replay of the Eagles/Jags game on NFL Network...

Seeing Deshean Jackson last year and Jeremy Maclin in this game makes me jealous. It would be so cool to have a nice passing game with contributing young WRs. I really hope it happens for us this year.[/quote]

The young guys HAVE to contribute because they have no vets who can. Kevin Curtis is decent...but he's no #1 WR.

We have more depth at WR than they do. Plus Cooley blows away Celek and CP can make it through a season, unlike Westbrook.

Moss/Randel El/Kelly/Thomas/Mitchell are better overall than Jackson/Maclin/Curtis/Avant/Baskett/Brown.

Jackson and Maclin ARE great young WRs, but they had to come in and be the top guys because no one else could. Our young guys will be adding talent on top of an already solid #1/#2. Randel El is great in the slot and he'll get to return there this year. For as bad as he is on punt returns, he has actually been a clutch receiver for us when we need a first down.

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[quote=Buster;580815]The young guys HAVE to contribute because they have no vets who can. Kevin Curtis is decent...but he's no #1 WR.

We have more depth at WR than they do. Plus Cooley blows away Celek and CP can make it through a season, unlike Westbrook.

Moss/Randel El/Kelly/Thomas/Mitchell are better overall than Jackson/Maclin/Curtis/Avant/Baskett/Brown.

Jackson and Maclin ARE great young WRs, but they had to come in and be the top guys because no one else could. Our young guys will be adding talent on top of an already solid #1/#2. Randel El is great in the slot and he'll get to return there this year. For as bad as he is on punt returns, he has actually been a clutch receiver for us when we need a first down.[/quote]

youre out of your mind. the Eagles probably have the 2nd best receiving corps in the NFC (behind the Cards, of course). Santana Moss may be slightly better than Jackson NOW, but 'Tana's career is on the downside now and Jacksons' is on the rise. After the #1 slot though, its not even close. Their #2-5 receivers are better than each of ours.

Mitchell and Kelly have impressed in camp, but lets be honest here - they've impressed us because our expectations are so low because we havent gotten much out of any WR not named Moss in a decade. Yet what we've seen from Mitchell, Kelly and even Thomas in camp and in the preseason thus far doesnt even approach what the Eagles WRs (Minus Maclin) have demonstrated in real games.

Yeah, Maclin could end up being a bust, but theres a far greater chance he'll be better than any one of our 3 young guys. I'd take the Eagles receiving corp over ours in a HEARTBEAT.

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[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;580859]youre out of your mind. the Eagles probably have the 2nd best receiving corps in the NFC (behind the Cards, of course). Santana Moss may be slightly better than Jackson NOW, but 'Tana's career is on the downside now and Jacksons' is on the rise. After the #1 slot though, its not even close. Their #2-5 receivers are better than each of ours.

Mitchell and Kelly have impressed in camp, but lets be honest here - they've impressed us because our expectations are so low because we havent gotten much out of any WR not named Moss in a decade. Yet what we've seen from Mitchell, Kelly and even Thomas in camp and in the preseason thus far doesnt even approach what the Eagles WRs (Minus Maclin) have demonstrated in real games.

Yeah, Maclin could end up being a bust, but theres a far greater chance he'll be better than any one of our 3 young guys. I'd take the Eagles receiving corp over ours in a HEARTBEAT.[/quote]

I was gonna respond to Buster, but you pretty much summed it up. I totally agree. Their receiving corps is signifcantly better than ours, and so is the guy throwing the ball.

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[quote=GMScud;580868]I was gonna respond to Buster, but you pretty much summed it up. I totally agree. Their receiving corps is signifcantly better than ours, and so is the guy throwing the ball.[/quote]

Brown, Avant and Baskett have had the chance to prove themselves and fell short.

Kelly, Thomas and Mitchell have not yet had the chance, plus have the potential to be so much more.

Kevin Curtis is their "veteran leader", and Moss blows him away in every way.

I'll still take ours. True, Jackson and Maclin could be great as a 1-2 punch, but we have the chance to have more quality players at he position and have better depth than they do.

Throwing out the #1/2s...who would you rather have? Brown, Avant and Baskett or Kelly, Thomas and Mitchell? I'll take our guys.

McNabb will not be effective or starting by the end of the year anyways, he's been on a decline and the fans always revolt against him annually, but this Vick debacle will end his reign in the town that booed him on draft day.