Re: Sally J.'s latest is spot on
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;600354]Very well said.

One problem is alot of people hang on to first impressions, especially when the change in behaviour is moderate or slow paced. No one is saying that DS is not involved, but he is learning to relegate himself and his opinions to a lower spot on the decision making totem pole.

a few questions for antiSnyders, and I don't know the answer, [B]how long was JKC owner before he won his first superbowl?
Division Title?
Had a winning percentage as an owner?[/B]

I would be really curious to know those answers.[/quote]

From JKC's Wikipedia entry:
[I]In 1961, Jack Kent Cooke purchased a 25 percent interest in the Washington Redskins, becoming majority owner in 1974 and sole owner in 1985.
[/I]
It took him 8 years to win a Super Bowl as majority owner. He also, as majority owner, inherited a good Redskins team that had gone to the Super Bowl two years earlier.

Remember the mediocre Jack Pardee Redskins? That was under JKC's watch. The mediocre Redskins of the mid-90's? Also under JKC's watch.

I liked JKC and I am not busting on him. I'm just trying to lend some perspective.

Re: Sally J.'s latest is spot on
 

[quote=CRedskinsRule;600346]He certainly has a weighted input, but once he hires a coach, he seems to let that coach get what he wants. Now if you are saying that because he signs the checks he is the main personnel decision-maker, then every owner is by definition the "main personnel decision-maker".[/quote]Snyder doesn't even let head coaches hire their own assistant coaches. Jerry Jones does that, too. I can't think of any other NFL owners who do that. The notion that Snyder leaves his coaches alone is false.

Re: Sally J.'s latest is spot on
 

[quote=Lotus;600370]From JKC's Wikipedia entry:
[I]In 1961, Jack Kent Cooke purchased a 25 percent interest in the Washington Redskins, becoming majority owner in 1974 and sole owner in 1985.
[/I]
It took him 8 years to win a Super Bowl as majority owner. He also, as majority owner, inherited a good Redskins team that had gone to the Super Bowl two years earlier.

Remember the mediocre Jack Pardee Redskins? That was under JKC's watch. The mediocre Redskins of the mid-90's? Also under JKC's watch.

I liked JKC and I am not busting on him. I'm just trying to lend some perspective.[/quote]Nah, Jack Kent Cooke wasn't even in the DC area until later. Cooke spent most of his time in southern California and his major sports interests were there. Cooke delegated his authority over the Skins to others until he came out to Virginia full time.

Re: Sally J.'s latest is spot on
 

[quote=SkinDogg;600325]So glad I didn't pick up season tickets. $30-50 for nosebleeds.

[URL="http://www.stubhub.com/washington-redskins-tickets/redskins-vs-buccaneers-fedexfield-788648/"]Washington Redskins vs Tampa Bay Buccaneers at StubHub![/URL][/quote]


I have heard that tickets for this game are being handed away. I haven't even looked at Craig's list which should be a lot cheaper than stub hub.

Re: Sally J.'s latest is spot on
 

Smoot makes some good points. I would answer to his earlier question about other owners; from my observation, most owners only speak publicly when they need to just like CEOs, on the heels of big news, controversy, or to do damage control.

We don't see that out of Snyder, yet there is plenty of damage control that's been needed. I agree w/Matty, Snyder is not comfortable in front of the camera. To his credit, he held a press conference when ST passed away. Had he not done that, he'd really be hated!

He has a problem w/his public perception, whether deserved or not. I just don't think he shows much effort to change that perception. Should he? I guess that can be argued either way, but ultimately you would think at some point he'll have to if this team can't win regularly (see G. Steinbrenner).

To my point about the perception of him. Check the insider poll #s from today:

[url=http://voices.washingtonpost.com/redskinsinsider/born-to-run-against-tampa-bay.html?wprss=redskinsinsider]Redskins Insider - Take It from the Very Top[/url]

Re: Sally J.'s latest is spot on
 

[quote=Spence;600379]Snyder doesn't even let head coaches hire their own assistant coaches. Jerry Jones does that, too. I can't think of any other NFL owners who do that. The notion that Snyder leaves his coaches alone is false.[/quote]

In retrospect, maybe Snyder should have been more thorough before telling Zorn to name Sherman Smith his offensive coordinator

Re: Sally J.'s latest is spot on
 

[quote=SmootSmack;600357]Yes you do assume. Dan Snyder is not the general manager of the Redskins, Jerry Jones is the general manager of the Cowboys. Everyone wants Snyder to just say "Ok, I admit it. I'm the GM of the team. Haha, you got me. But, as hard as it is for everyone to believe, that's not the case. He is not the GM. His involvement is not the same as Jones' involvement with the Cowboys.[/quote]Whether Snyder holds the title of GM is not relevant. What matters is who is making the personnel decisions. Snyder is making those decisions, decisions he is not qualified to make. Those are decisions that, on almost every other team, are made by men who have spent their entire adult lives studying football.

[quote=SmootSmack;600357]Snyder steps in as an abritrator between Zorn and Cerrato if necessary (just like JKC did), Snyder gets involved with signing the contract approving the money to be spent (just like JKC), Snyder gets involved, very involved, in sponsorship deals.

Snyder is consulted on roster decisions (just like JKC was). Snyder asks about certain players (just like JKC did).[/quote]If you think Snyder's involvement with personnel decisions is equivalent to Cooke's involvement in personnel decisions, then...I don't even know how to finish that sentence. I had no idea a single human being on this planet believed that. I think in the interest of maintaining good relations with others on this board, I'll end my comments on that subject right there.

[quote=SmootSmack;600357]As for Snyder never publicly admitting his mistakes

[url=http://www.washingtonian.com/articles/sports/1679.html]The Dan Snyder You Don't Know - Sports (washingtonian.com)[/url]

In his first three years as owner of the Redskins, Dan Snyder was much more successful at establishing a foundation and giving away money than at running the franchise.

“I made some real stupid decisions,” he says. “I made a lot of mistakes. I’m human.”
Snyder took over the Washington Redskins on July 14, 1999. He inherited Norv Turner as coach and Charley Casserly as general manager.

“They were fighting like cats and dogs,” he says. “We were in trouble. I couldn’t have these two guys sniping at one another.”

So he fired Casserly in September.

“You fired the wrong guy,” Casserly told him.

“If you’re right,” Snyder shot back, “you’ll be one of the first to know.”

Snyder also fired a bunch of longtime front-office workers. He brought in his own PR team, lead by Karl Swanson.

Hoping for a quick trip to the Super Bowl, he paid big money for aging stars Bruce Smith and Deion Sanders.

Snyder stuck with Norv Turner through the 1999 season, which was lackluster. With three games left in the 2000 season, the Redskins had a 7–6 record, and Snyder lost patience. He called Turner into his office at 11 am on December 4 and let him go.

“It was one of my worst moves,” he says. “It was plain stupid. I was a new owner pissed about losing.”

It was also the first move that showed fans and reporters Dan Snyder’s impatient side. In business, Snyder could replace a manager in the dead of night with a phone call. The Redskins were considered a public utility, and every move was blared in the media and dissected on sports-radio talk shows.

After Snyder fired Turner, he says, he called Casserly and said, “You were right.”

[url]http://www.thewarpath.net/redskins-news/24642-wsj-interview-with-dan-snyder.html[/url]

WSJ: Do you see the term micromanaging as being a media-driven one or do you think there are some people who think you might be a little too involved on a day-to-day basis?

Mr. Snyder: I probably was when I first got here.

Early on I probably didn't have the level of patience needed to take place when you're talking about this sport of NFL football, because it really is a building process. You build through free-agency and the draft and I think that if you can look over the years you'd see a lot of improvement over how the club goes about getting players and keeping players and re-signing our existing players.[/quote]My goodness, you certainly are very impressed by Snyder admitting one mistake he made 9 years ago. I guess that explains everything that has happened since, eh? It explains why he fired Marty Schottenheimer, saying he wasn't having any fun. It explains the Spurrier disaster. It explains getting rid of Stephen Davis for Trung Canidate. It explains the lousy game day experience at FedEx, explains the endless wads of cash wasted on players who never performed and explains the .455 winning percentage.

Basically, this subject is divided into two opposing camps. One camp looks at that .455 winning percentage and cheers Dan Snyder for the keen insight he has brought to the franchise. Another camp looks at that .455 winning percentage, then looks around the league and is disgusted by ownership they regard as being more concerned with public relations than football games.

One camp likes being champions of the offseason. The other camp would rather be champions of the Super Bowl. The priorities are so vastly different, I can't imagine any agreement on this issue will ever emerge.

Re: Sally J.'s latest is spot on
 

[quote=SmootSmack;600384]In retrospect, maybe Snyder should have been more thorough before telling Zorn to name Sherman Smith his offensive coordinator[/quote]You mean that offensive coordinator who doesn't call plays? I'm sure it was tough for Snyder to give in on that. Hopefully, he wasn't too upset at settling for the entire defensive coaching staff, the special teams coach and half the offensive coaching staff. What a trooper.

Re: Sally J.'s latest is spot on
 

[quote=Spence;600387]Whether Snyder holds the title of GM is not relevant. What matters is who is making the personnel decisions. Snyder is making those decisions, decisions he is not qualified to make. Those are decisions that, on almost every other team, are made by men who have spent their entire adult lives studying football.[/quote]

What matters is that you simply believe what you want to believe. Snyder could die today, we could go 1-15 for the next 10 years and you'd probably still say "Well Snyder is the one making the personnel decisions." And whatever you think of Cerrato (and Scott Campbell and Morocco Brown) what do you think they've been doing their adult lives? Do you think they were plucked from playing the piano at Nordstrom's?

[quote]If you think Snyder's involvement with personnel decisions is equivalent to Cooke's involvement in personnel decisions, then...I don't even know how to finish that sentence. I had no idea a single human being on this planet believed that. I think in the interest of maintaining good relations with others on this board, I'll end my comments on that subject right there.[/quote]

Again, this is all based on your assumptions about what Snyder does.

[quote]My goodness, you certainly are very impressed by Snyder admitting one mistake he made 9 years ago. I guess that explains everything that has happened since, eh? It explains why he fired Marty Schottenheimer, saying he wasn't having any fun. It explains the Spurrier disaster. It explains getting rid of Stephen Davis for Trung Canidate. It explains the lousy game day experience at FedEx, explains the endless wads of cash wasted on players who never performed and explains the .455 winning percentage.[/quote]

Just pointing out that Snyder's admitted mistakes in the past. The Schottenheimer situation was bad all around (Snyder and players at fault), I wish Marty was still here. I won't even continue with the rest because it's been rehashed over and over again.

[quote]Basically, this subject is divided into two opposing camps. One camp looks at that .455 winning percentage and cheers Dan Snyder for the keen insight he has brought to the franchise. Another camp looks at that .455 winning percentage, then looks around the league and is disgusted by ownership they regard as being more concerned with public relations than football games.

One camp likes being champions of the offseason. The other camp would rather be champions of the Super Bowl. The priorities are so vastly different, I can't imagine any agreement on this issue will ever emerge.[/quote]

It's divided into two opposing camps. One camp that is frustrated at the .455 winning percentage, wants to win the Super Bowl, accepts that as a franchise we have made mistakes, realizes that we have also made wise decisions, recognizes that perception is not always reality, understands that past ownership had its "flaws", realizes this ownership isn't going anywhere anytime soon, and doesn't assume what this ownership group does and what other owners do...the other camp believes what they want to believe

Re: Sally J.'s latest is spot on
 

George Michael, a close friend of Dan Snyder and Joe Gibbs, on the role Snyder plays in the front office:[quote]"Let me tell you the truth: [B]Dan does make I think most of those big-type decisions," Michael said. "He says 'Let's get this guy, let's get that guy.' And the guy that takes the heat for it--and it's why I think he's never gotten fired--is Vinny Cerrato.[/B] Now, Cerrato's painted as a bozo, but the truth is, what did Vinny Cerrato do for the team? Look at Chris Horton. That's the kind of guy he gets."[/quote][URL="http://voices.washingtonpost.com/dcsportsbog/2009/10/george_michael_on_why_fans_hat.html#more"]Source[/URL]

Re: Sally J.'s latest is spot on
 

Spence there is no reasoning with SS on the topic of the DS. he has his opinion, the majority of skins fans have a different one.

Re: Sally J.'s latest is spot on
 

[quote=Spence;600406]George Michael, a close friend of Dan Snyder and Joe Gibbs, on the role Snyder plays in the front office:[URL="http://voices.washingtonpost.com/dcsportsbog/2009/10/george_michael_on_why_fans_hat.html#more"]Source[/URL][/quote]

Just read that. Fascinating interview. Love the comment about Zorn and improvement. We lose to the Lions and we improved. Hate to see what a step back would be.

Why would anyone doubt Snyder's involvement in personnel matters? The players usually confirm that after getting their big deals and thanking Snyder for his personal involvement. Of course Snyder is involved, that is why we have NO GM. Why do we think, Zorn is making the decisions to sign Haynesworth? Ummmmm, yeah right.

Re: Sally J.'s latest is spot on
 

[quote=Spence;600406]George Michael, a close friend of Dan Snyder and Joe Gibbs, on the role Snyder plays in the front office:[URL="http://voices.washingtonpost.com/dcsportsbog/2009/10/george_michael_on_why_fans_hat.html#more"]Source[/URL][/quote]

Here's a question. What does this mean?

Does it mean that Snyder, independent of Zorn and Snyder decided to go get this guy? Or does it mean Cerrato and staff did their yearly FA class evaluations and gave glowing reports on AH which caused Snyder to go get him. Big difference to me.

Re: Sally J.'s latest is spot on
 

[quote=FRPLG;600416]Here's a question. What does this mean?

Does it mean that Snyder, independent of Zorn and Snyder decided to go get this guy? Or does it mean Cerrato and staff did their yearly FA class evaluations and gave glowing reports on AH which caused Snyder to go get him. Big difference to me.[/quote]I think it means two things.

1. The meaning of what Michael said about Snyder's role is perfectly plain;
2. Those who like Snyder do not judge him by any tangible criteria [such as wins and losses] and are therefore unlikely to be impressed by any sort of argument against him, regardless of the facts or supporting evidence.

Therefore, debates like these can be diverting for a few minutes, but are ultimately fruitless. Two people will never agree on something if they use entirely different criteria to judge that subject. People like me judge Snyder based on the available evidence -- wins and losses. People who oppose my view of Snyder judge him on other criteria. I do not pretend to know exactly what that criteria might be, but I know it isn't wins and losses.

Re: Sally J.'s latest is spot on
 

[quote=SmootSmack;600400]What matters is that you simply believe what you want to believe. Snyder could die today, we could go 1-15 for the next 10 years and you'd probably still say "Well Snyder is the one making the personnel decisions." And whatever you think of Cerrato (and Scott Campbell and Morocco Brown) what do you think they've been doing their adult lives? Do you think they were plucked from playing the piano at Nordstrom's?



Again, this is all based on your assumptions about what Snyder does.



Just pointing out that Snyder's admitted mistakes in the past. The Schottenheimer situation was bad all around (Snyder and players at fault), I wish Marty was still here. I won't even continue with the rest because it's been rehashed over and over again.



[B]It's divided into two opposing camps. One camp that is frustrated at the .455 winning percentage, wants to win the Super Bowl, accepts that as a franchise we have made mistakes, realizes that we have also made wise decisions, recognizes that perception is not always reality, understands that past ownership had its "flaws", realizes this ownership isn't going anywhere anytime soon, and doesn't assume what this ownership group does and what other owners do...the other camp believes what they want to believe[/B][/quote]

Couldn't be said any better.

Re: Sally J.'s latest is spot on
 

You know what. Seriously, whatever Dan Snyder likes we are trained to go against it. Remember when Dan Snyder was searching for his coach and the one pet peeve that the media had was that he was going to go out and get an established guy to see if he could recreate success there ? How he should go and find an unknown to be his guy for the future ? Remember how another big complaint was that he wanted to force the incoming coach to have Jason Campbell as his QB ? Oh yes, there was a time when JC was Snyders guy. And as soon as he gets Zorn, why him ? Why not a more established guy. Then do you remember over the summer when Danny wanted to get another Qb, all of a sudden Campbell is a great QB just on the brink of greatness ? It's the hatred of the Danny that drives some people.

I mean it is really ridiculous Spense how you can even make it like keeping everything outside of the offense as intact as you can as a bad thing. We complain about the lack of continuity and when you get that there is a problem. That's what I'm talking about !

Re: Sally J.'s latest is spot on
 

[QUOTE=freddyg12;600270]Searched elsewhere for this on the wp & almost put it in an existing thread ("Lavar's twitter" led to discussion of our owner).

But I felt it was such a strong & well written article that it had to stand alone. I know a lot of us have been unhappy w/Sally Jenkins over the years, but based on my limited knowledge as only a fan, I really find it hard to disagree w/most of what she says. I've always felt the biggest difference between JJ & DS was that Jerry is at least accessible to the public & makes himself somewhat accountable.

Here's the link:



Agree fully. About the only thing Jenkins left out was the appropriate last line: "resign, you silly twit, and let an adult take over!"

As good old Ken Beatrice used to say, "a fish rots from the head." Zorn and Campbell may be in over their heads, but they're doing the best they can. Let's put the blame on the idiots who hired them, noting that these are only two of the many disastrous moves they've made.

Many of us remember Jack Kent Cooke, who may not have been one of nature's noblemen as a human being, but who, in retrospect, was a superb owner. He hired professionals and gave them time to get the job done. He demanded long-term competence but never interfered short-term.

I had been a Redskins fan since 1971, but, as of last Sunday night, I've checked out until Snyder sells the team. As a protest, I'll be rooting for the Steelers until that happens. Why the Steelers? Simple. They exemplify the kind of ownership and management needed in Washington.

Re: Sally J.'s latest is spot on
 

And that exemplifies the kind of bandwagon jumping that got the Cowboys so many fans in the 90s. I don't root for owners, I root for the damn team and players who are trying so hard for us.

Re: Sally J.'s latest is spot on
 

Well if you'll be rooting for the Steelers why don't you join a Steelers board ? Or change your avatar ? I don't understand "longtime fans" like you. Did you feel that way in '05 ? Doubt it, go on and cheer for the Steelers and have a good time with your towels.

Re: Sally J.'s latest is spot on
 

Here are a couple of JKC articles that make for an interesting read

[url=http://articles.latimes.com/1991-10-27/sports/sp-854_1_jack-kent-cooke?pg=2]A Foundation for Success - Redskins: Owner Jack Kent Cooke and Coach Joe Gibbs enjoy a strong working relationship after three Super Bowls and several tough losses. (page 2) - Los Angeles Times[/url]

[url=http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1140150/index.htm]In his own estimation, at least, Jack Kent Cooke, the - 12.16.91 - SI Vault[/url]

And here's another interesting article from 15 years ago

[url=http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1005754/index.htm]That's what the fans are asking as the Washington - 10.03.94 - SI Vault[/url]

Re: Sally J.'s latest is spot on
 

[quote=SmootSmack;600400]What matters is that you simply believe what you want to believe. Snyder could die today, we could go 1-15 for the next 10 years and you'd probably still say "Well Snyder is the one making the personnel decisions." And whatever you think of Cerrato (and Scott Campbell and Morocco Brown) what do you think they've been doing their adult lives? Do you think they were plucked from playing the piano at Nordstrom's?[/quote]No, I'm pretty sure I would not decide that a corpse is making the personnel decisions for the Washington Redskins. Yes, I'm pretty sure of that. As for Vinny Cerrato, Scott Campbell and Morocco Brown, I don't know what they've been doing their entire adult lives, but I know what they have not been doing: Building Super Bowl champions. And by the way, I believe what the facts tell me to believe.

[quote=SmootSmack;600400]It's divided into two opposing camps. One camp that is frustrated at the .455 winning percentage, wants to win the Super Bowl, accepts that as a franchise we have made mistakes, realizes that we have also made wise decisions, recognizes that perception is not always reality, understands that past ownership had its "flaws", realizes this ownership isn't going anywhere anytime soon, and doesn't assume what this ownership group does and what other owners do...the other camp believes what they want to believe[/quote]You're right, perception is not always reality. You know what IS reality? Reality. And the reality is a .455 losing percentage. Reality is losing to the Lions and then having a coach tell the public that the team is improving. Reality is watching every team in the NFC East win a division championship, except the Redskins, since Dan Snyder started making decisions. Reality is cutting Brian Mitchell so the team could rent 9-toe Deion Sanders for one season. That is the savage, inevitable, remorseless reality.

I certainly accept that past ownership has its flaws. Past ownership hired Norv Tuner and continued to employ him for years after it was abundantly clear that he was a poor head coach and a godawful talent evaluator. If Dan Snyder has made one good decision it was firing Norv Turner, though he did it at the wrong time and in the wrong way. Desmond Howard, Tom Carter, Heath Shuler, Michael Westbrook and Andre Johnson were all drafted in the first round by past ownership. It was past ownership that brought that fat, lazy pantload Dana Stubblefield to Washington. Past ownership screwed up plenty from 1992-1998.

None of that excuses Dan Snyder for what he has done. And none of that erases the three Super Bowls past ownership did win before it went senile and couldn't tell its ass from its elbow.

Re: Sally J.'s latest is spot on
 

[quote=Spence;600454]No, I'm pretty sure I would not decide that a corpse is making the personnel decisions for the Washington Redskins. Yes, I'm pretty sure of that. As for Vinny Cerrato, Scott Campbell and Morocco Brown, I don't know what they've been doing their entire adult lives, but I know what they have not been doing: Building Super Bowl champions. And by the way, I believe what the facts tell me to believe.[/quote]

Perhaps I was mildly hyperbolic :) As for Cerrato, Campbell, and Brown my point was simply that too many people say "we need to hire football guys" or "guys that have spent their adult lives studying football" Which is exactly what those three have done

[quote]You're right, perception is not always reality. You know what IS reality? Reality. And the reality is a .455 losing percentage. Reality is losing to the Lions and then having a coach tell the public that the team is improving. Reality is watching every team in the NFC East win a division championship, except the Redskins, since Dan Snyder started making decisions. Reality is cutting Brian Mitchell so the team could rent 9-toe Deion Sanders for one season. That is the savage, inevitable, remorseless reality.[/quote]

Reality is also making the playoffs in two of Gibbs four years here under Snyder. Reality is drafting Cooley in the 3rd round, Mitchell in the 7th, signing London Fletcher, not signing Courtney Brown.

And reality is actually a .455 winning percentage. Which of course I'm frustrated with. Any fan would be.

[quote]I certainly accept that past ownership has its flaws. Past ownership hired Norv Tuner and continued to employ him for years after it was abundantly clear that he was a poor head coach and a godawful talent evaluator. If Dan Snyder has made one good decision it was firing Norv Turner, though he did it at the wrong time and in the wrong way. Desmond Howard, Tom Carter, Heath Shuler, Michael Westbrook and Andre Johnson were all drafted in the first round by past ownership. It was past ownership that brought that fat, lazy pantload Dana Stubblefield to Washington. Past ownership screwed up plenty from 1992-1998.

None of that excuses Dan Snyder for what he has done. And none of that erases the three Super Bowls past ownership did win before it went senile and couldn't tell its ass from its elbow.[/quote]

I'm glad someone recognizes that past ownership was not perfect

Re: Sally J.'s latest is spot on
 

[quote=Spence;600420]I think it means two things.

1. The meaning of what Michael said about Snyder's role is perfectly plain;
2. Those who like Snyder do not judge him by any tangible criteria [such as wins and losses] and are therefore unlikely to be impressed by any sort of argument against him, regardless of the facts or supporting evidence.

Therefore, debates like these can be diverting for a few minutes, but are ultimately fruitless. Two people will never agree on something if they use entirely different criteria to judge that subject. People like me judge Snyder based on the available evidence -- wins and losses. People who oppose my view of Snyder judge him on other criteria. I do not pretend to know exactly what that criteria might be, but I know it isn't wins and losses.[/quote]


I can appreciate the evaluation of Snyder on wins and losses. Ultimately it is a completely worthless discussion though. We acknowledge he isn't very good based on perfectly empirical evidence and then what? Nothing. We get nothing out of that other than stating the plainly obvious. What I don't appreciate are your assumptions as to [B]WHY[/B] he isn't very good. Or more accurately I'd rather have a discussion as to the [B]WHY[/B] and I'd like people to state what it is exactly that he does that is wrong. I can appreciate an opinion in this regard but state it plainly as an opinion. If you're stating it as a fact, like so many seem to do, then give some support for it. I don't ask this of you or anyone out a challenging spirit but rather out it out a desire for real discussion and understanding of what's wrong. For example: no one has yet convinced me, or some others apparently, that the way Snyder operates talent acquisition is all that different than anywhere else. And if it isn't all that different then maybe it isn't the problem. Maybe the problem is that Snyder isn't very good at hiring the right football people. Just throwing that out there as a hypothetical alternative. If that is the case then the argument that he needs to hire a "real football" guy to run things takes a big dent because now we're relying on a guy, who isn't good at identifying "good football people", to hire a "good football guy" to run things. In which case we're screwed. Basically I want to know [B]WHY[/B] we're in the state we're in. And just throwing out the same old Snyder bludoblahdeblugdeblammo... isn't very insightful.

Re: Sally J.'s latest is spot on
 

Maybe it's a cop-out, but sometimes I just think the Redskins are the unluckiest franchise in the NFL.

I'm not going to give you a bunch of numbers or stats here, but just think about the injuries and problems we've had over the years. I mean things are the tragic, such as possibly the best safety to ever play the game being murdered, to the insanely unlucky like Portis hurting himself TACKLING someone in preseason.

Maybe it's because I don't follow other teams to know their "luck", but it's always a key injury here or a bad draft pick there that causes a problem. I don't care who you are, who would have said Desean Jackson would have been eating people up at WR? Who would have said that numerous other rookie picks by the Redskins, while serviceable, would pale in comparison to the rest of the NFC East?

Blame it on Snyder, blame it on Cerrato, blame it on Gibbs, Turner, Spurrier... I don't care who you blame it on, but it always seems this team is in a perpetual cycle of wrong place at the wrong time.

Re: Sally J.'s latest is spot on
 

I think it was Sally getting it on with Mr Irvin in the stall.

Re: Sally J.'s latest is spot on
 

[quote=TheMalcolmConnection;600495]Maybe it's a cop-out, but sometimes I just think the Redskins are the unluckiest franchise in the NFL.

I'm not going to give you a bunch of numbers or stats here, but just think about the injuries and problems we've had over the years. I mean things are the tragic, such as possibly the best safety to ever play the game being murdered, to the insanely unlucky like Portis hurting himself TACKLING someone in preseason.

Maybe it's because I don't follow other teams to know their "luck", but it's always a key injury here or a bad draft pick there that causes a problem. I don't care who you are, who would have said Desean Jackson would have been eating people up at WR? Who would have said that numerous other rookie picks by the Redskins, while serviceable, would pale in comparison to the rest of the NFC East?

[B]Blame it on Snyder, blame it on Cerrato, blame it on Gibbs, Turner, Spurrier... I don't care who you blame it on[/B], but it always seems this team is in a perpetual cycle of wrong place at the wrong time.[/quote]

[YT]NwrL9MV6jSk[/YT]

Re: Sally J.'s latest is spot on
 

^^^^I needed this.

Thank you so much.........

Re: Sally J.'s latest is spot on
 

Speaking of things that are spot-on, who could forget Vinny Cerrato's spot-on portrayal of police seargent Antonelli in the highly underrated gem, "Kindergarten Ninja".

[URL="http://voices.washingtonpost.com/dcsportsbog/2009/02/vinny_cerratos_first_ninja_sce.html"]D.C. Sports Bog - Vinny Cerrato's First Ninja Scene[/URL]

even more Vinny!

[U][COLOR=#670100]<object width="400" height="302"><param name="allowfullscreen" value="true" /><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always" /><param name="movie" value="[URL]http://vimeo.com/moogaloop.swf?clip_id=3454205&amp;server=vimeo.com&amp;show_title=1&amp;show_byline=1&amp;show_portrait=0&amp;color=&amp;fullscreen=1[/URL]" /><embed src="[URL]http://vimeo.com/moogaloop.swf?clip_id=3454205&amp;server=vimeo.com&amp;show_title=1&amp;show_byline=1&amp;show_portrait=0&amp;color=&amp;fullscreen=1[/URL]" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowscriptaccess="always" width="400" height="302"></embed></object><p><a href="[URL]http://vimeo.com/3454205">Untitled</a[/URL]> from <a href="[URL]http://vimeo.com/user1213443">Dan[/URL] Steinberg</a> on <a href="[URL]http://vimeo.com">Vimeo</a>.</p[/URL]>[/COLOR][/U][URL="http://voices.washingtonpost.com/dcsportsbog/2009/03/another_exciting_ninja_scene.html"][/URL]

Re: Sally J.'s latest is spot on
 

[quote=TheMalcolmConnection;600495]Maybe it's a cop-out, but sometimes I just think the Redskins are the unluckiest franchise in the NFL.

I'm not going to give you a bunch of numbers or stats here, but just think about the injuries and problems we've had over the years. I mean things are the tragic, such as possibly the best safety to ever play the game being murdered, to the insanely unlucky like Portis hurting himself TACKLING someone in preseason.

Maybe it's because I don't follow other teams to know their "luck", but it's always a key injury here or a bad draft pick there that causes a problem. I don't care who you are, who would have said Desean Jackson would have been eating people up at WR? Who would have said that numerous other rookie picks by the Redskins, while serviceable, would pale in comparison to the rest of the NFC East?
[B]
Blame it on Snyder, blame it on Cerrato, blame it on Gibbs, Turner, Spurrier...[/B] I don't care who you blame it on, but it always seems this team is in a perpetual cycle of wrong place at the wrong time.[/quote]

I definitely thought of blame it on the alcohol, right away.

Milli Vanilli is a little bit before my time. :)

Re: Sally J.'s latest is spot on
 

SS great job!

Re: Sally J.'s latest is spot on
 

[quote=over the mountain;600410]Spence there is no reasoning with SS on the topic of the DS. he has his opinion, the majority of skins fans have a different one.[/quote]Count me in with SS.

Re: Sally J.'s latest is spot on
 

[quote=PennSkinsFan;600304]Embraced! Ten years of losing. Kind of makes you embrace it with arms wide open.[/quote]Playoffs 1999, 2005, 2007.

Re: Sally J.'s latest is spot on
 

The article tells it exactly like it is.

"I've said it before, and I say it again more than ever: It looks to me like Snyder would rather be the center of power on a losing team than a peripheral figure on a winning one."

That is one of the most honest and cogent statements about Dan Snyder I've ever heard...it is the bottom line IMHO and Snyder apologists will write themselves in endless circles searching for an escape from that reality.

My biggest fear when it comes to my Skins is Snyder will own the team for as long as I'm alive...

Re: Sally J.'s latest is spot on
 

[quote=DynamiteRave;600560]I definitely thought of blame it on the alcohol, right away.

Milli Vanilli is a little bit before my time. :)[/quote]

girlfriend, you don't know what you're missin!

Then again, neither do we older ones, since MV wasn't who we thought they were!

Re: Sally J.'s latest is spot on
 

does anyone else suspect Zorn is lipsynching and it is actually Snyder sending the plays in to Campbell?

Re: Sally J.'s latest is spot on
 

[quote=DynamiteRave;600560]I definitely thought of blame it on the alcohol, right away.

Milli Vanilli is a little bit before my time. :)[/quote]

I was thinking Blame it on the Alcohol for you...or Blame it on the Boogie for the dmeks out there

Re: Sally J.'s latest is spot on
 

[quote=;SBXVII 600593]

Originally Posted by SBXVII
Did anyone see "Redskins Nation" tonight with Cerrato? Again, to me, it had the whole pep rally feel. Damage control spin. Discredit any questions that put down the team in any fashion feel.

All of the sudden Larry Michael's breaks into this whole speach about random comments slamming people on the team or in the organization when they don't know anything about the individual.

I presume he was refering to Cerrato. The whole time Cerrato was sitting there looking like a pug stairing straight ahead. Then when questioned it seemed ...I don't know .... like he was not the sharpest tool in the shed. I'm not trying to slam him like others have. I was seriously shocked at how bad he spoke and how he was presented. Maybe it was just me. Cerrato then went on to talk about how he has all these rings from NFC championship games and SB's and maybe he will take a picture of them and send it to the blogger so they will know what it looks like since they will never get a chance to ever have one like him. I thought holly crap what an a$$.[/quote]

Just watched this and it pissed me off. I usually like Larry Michael but he acted like a total bitch. His main argument was that Vinny works hard. What the hell? EVERYONE WORKS HARD. He doesn't get paid for effort, he gets paid for results.

Vinny's performance is indefensible. How are those 11 draft picks in 08 doing? Vinny and Danny have made a mockery of our beloved franchise. LM has some nerve to lecture Sally Jenkins for her dead-on critique. He's beyond being a homer. He's a total D-bag!

Re: Sally J.'s latest is spot on
 

Ugh, the gay-ass Larry's are now talking about how the Eagles and Giants recently rebounded from slow starts. Are they high? Did the Giants and Eagles lose to the likes of the Lions? After finishing the previous season 2-6? They are friggin demented. Eff them for slamming fans for being pissed off. They suck.

Re: Sally J.'s latest is spot on
 

[quote=44Deezel;600615]Ugh, the gay-ass Larry's are now talking about how the Eagles and Giants recently rebounded from slow starts. Are they high? Did the Giants and Eagles lose to the likes of the Lions? After finishing the previous season 2-6? They are friggin demented. Eff them for slamming fans for being pissed off. They suck.[/quote]

In 2006 the Giants finished 2-6 en route to an 8-8 record (though they still earned a Wild Card berth). The following year they started 1-2 before marching on to a Super Bowl win.

Did they lose to the likes of the Lions? No

Re: Sally J.'s latest is spot on
 

NY Sally...bah! Cut and paste from any of her previous articles. She should get her facts straight though:

1) "The most damning anecdote I've heard yet about Snyder came this week from his former player-confidante LaVar Arrington, who described how Snyder would stand outside the locker room and shake hands with players when they won, but glared and declined to offer a hand when they lost. "

LaVar...I'm sure he's got no axe to grind.

2) "Now, surely Zorn has better things to do than to explain the elementary and the obvious to his owner: They don't have an effective offensive line or a pass rush."

Maybe she should read some of our write-ups before she makes such inaccurate blanket statements.

3) He is personally responsible for naming Vinny Cerrato, a proven failure, executive vice president of football operations, for the Redskins' lack of core strength, for their inability to power the ball in the red zone, which is thanks to his decade of neglect of the interior lines in favor of big free agent signings.

Here's Cerrato's resume, hardly a "failure".

Notre Dame
Before the NFL, Cerrato served as the football recruiting coordinator under [URL="http://www.thewarpath.net/wiki/Lou_Holtz"][COLOR=#0000ff]Lou Holtz[/COLOR][/URL] at the [URL="http://www.thewarpath.net/wiki/University_of_Notre_Dame"][COLOR=#0000ff]University of Notre Dame[/COLOR][/URL]. During that time, the Irish played in four Bowl games and won the 1988 NCAA National Championship.

49ers
Cerrato was with the [URL="http://www.thewarpath.net/wiki/San_Francisco_49ers"][COLOR=#0000ff]San Francisco 49ers[/COLOR][/URL] for nine seasons. He joined San Francisco in 1991 as the Director of College Scouting, helping to draft players including [URL="http://www.thewarpath.net/wiki/Ted_Washington"][COLOR=#0000ff]Ted Washington[/COLOR][/URL], [URL="http://www.thewarpath.net/wiki/Ricky_Watters"][COLOR=#0000ff]Ricky Watters[/COLOR][/URL], [URL="http://www.thewarpath.net/wiki/Dana_Stubblefield"][COLOR=#0000ff]Dana Stubblefield[/COLOR][/URL] and [URL="http://www.thewarpath.net/wiki/Bryant_Young"][COLOR=#0000ff]Bryant Young[/COLOR][/URL]. In [URL="http://www.thewarpath.net/wiki/1994_NFL_season"][COLOR=#0000ff]1994[/COLOR][/URL], he was part of the [URL="http://www.thewarpath.net/wiki/Super_Bowl_XXIX"][COLOR=#0000ff]Super Bowl XXIX[/COLOR][/URL] Championship team. In 1995, Cerrato was promoted to Director of Player Personnel, overseeing all college scouting and draft activities as well as pro scouting of NFL players and opponents.

Cerrato has only been formally in charge since the 2008 off-season. Hardly enough time to be judged a "failure".

As to "Core strength" if she's meaning quality of players through the middle of the field. Landry, Fletcher, Haynesworth, Griff, Portis come to mind (Rabach & Campbell are at worst average). If she's talking streghth of the lines: Samuels (Pro Bowl), Dock (solid FA, reasonable price), Rabach (solid), Rinehart (inexperienced, but no glaring defeciencies), Heyer (young, raw, but solid). Orakpo (best defensive player in draft), Haynesworth (Pro Bowl), Griff, aging but solid, AC (struggling).

Her assessment of not running inside the Red Zone is way off and has nothing to do with "neglecting the interior lines". Dock, Rabach and Thomas were all solid FA signings. Rinehart and Montgomery have shown promise. We've discussed the run scheme quite a bit, maybe she should read here before writing trash.

Didn't Snyder hire Joe Gibbs in 2004 and cede complete control to him? I guess she forgot 2004-2007 while wallowing in her Snyder bashing Imaginationland.

4) And how long can all of them keep fighting for Zorn when no one in the front office will step forward and preach real loyalty, by publicly declaring, "This is our coach and the path we're on."

Ah yes, the "vote of confidence" is just what we need right now.

5) But somehow it seems more important given the nature of the NFL, a business in which men sacrifice their bodies and futures weekly for the good of the organization...

And here I thought the players were getting paid (pretty damn good last I checked) to do a job, that most anyone would love to do.

6) Snyder declined an interview request Wednesday, but hopefully in the near future he will make clear his vision for a better future for the organization.

After all the trash NY Sally has written about Snyder and the Skins over the years, if I was Snyder I wouldn't give that b***h the time of day either.

I think hooskins summed it up best...F you Sally.