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[quote=Paintrain;602566]Really. I don't get fans upset about 'how' we won today. Jesus, we won! Let it rest for 24 hours guys, enjoy the victory.[/quote]

Hell Yeah! :woot: We were down 7-0 47 seconds into the game, overcame adversity and came out with a win. After last week...I'LL TAKE IT!!! People can say what they want about JC...he didn't give up. That says a lot in my book.

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[quote=12thMan;602405]I went with Campbell. He started out like crap, had crappy stats but fought his way through it to throw for two clutch TDs and once again found the chains with his feet. I thought it was one of his biggest gut check games, if you will.[/quote]

I voted for Capt. Caveman. Although, I think the above is the bigger picture for us. JC had a bad game, but managed through it. Since he's been really careful not turning the ball over I hope he doesn't regress after all those INTs.

Overall, the game ball goes to the team. As I've said in another thread, we don't have to be pretty, as long as we win.

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JC gets the game ball despite all the boooooing and finger pointing he sucked it up and won the game. Jarmon played very well would have been my second choice.

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I went w/ CP. He played hurt and ran hard almost every touch. But there we're a lot of nice plays today...Hall earned a paycheck and all the sudden Tryon looks like a football player.

Also how bout some props to Reed Doughty. Not a PB safety I know but man it just seems like when he's in the game there are far fewer missed tackles and busted plays.

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I give it to Campbell. I was at the game and he looked like a UFA rookie in the first half. Not sure what was going on in his head. I told my friend that I wouldn't be surprised to see Collins come out early and start warming up. Campbell played a good second half and did a great job leading those two TD drives.

A little disappointed to hear the "boos" so early in the game.

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I went w/the D. Hard to single out any one guy, but Doughty played well & Fletcher had his usual solid game. I noticed that AH missed on a couple plays that led to long runs, but he also clogged some cutback lanes.

The D kept us in the game. Those 2 missed FGs were huge. Thanks to the D they were not chip shots. If Nugent makes both of those...

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The D. JC coming back from a bad first half to throw the game-winner was my vote for second, but the D played tough all day. The only TD scored by the Bucs was on an EXTREMELY short field.

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I went with the defense. They kept the game close while the offense was struggling. The Hall interception and Jarmon fumble were the key plays on the defensive side of the ball. An honorable mention goes out to Clinton Portis, Santana Moss and Jason Campbell. Portis ran hard despite being nicked up. Santana Moss put one of the prettiest moves on the touchdown catch. Campbell showed a lot of guts coming back in the second half and leading his team to victory despite a horrible first half. Zorn showed a lot of confidence in Campbell in allowing him to redeem himself. Most head coaches would have gone to their second string quarterback after a JaMarcus Russell type first half.

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Zorn

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[quote=724Skinsfan;602682]I give it to Campbell. I was at the game and he looked like a UFA rookie in the first half. Not sure what was going on in his head. I told my friend that I wouldn't be surprised to see Collins come out early and start warming up. Campbell played a good second half and did a great job leading those two TD drives.

A little disappointed to hear the "boos" so early in the game.[/quote]

I agree, but I KNEW it was coming, especially with that first fumble.

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Not sure how someone can vote for JC after turning the ball over 4 time and the D bailed us out keeping us in the game so that JC even had a chance to win the game. I'm not happy with the 4 turnovers but I'm not calling for his head either but no way did he earn a game ball. So my vote goes to the D and JC sould take them all out to dinner.

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JC...

He looked like an answer to me for the first time. First off the first half was simply not indicative of anything other than a bad day. He's never looked that bad, even when he was rookie. He gets a pass on it for now as long as it doesn't happen again like that. In the second half it looked like they finally just opened it up some. He looked more decisive and overcame his "issues" from earlier. It's the only time I can remember that I felt like he was just really playing the game to win rather than playing it not to lose. Our D kept us in the game. JC won the game.

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[quote=FRPLG;602773]JC...

He looked like an answer to me for the first time. First off the first half was simply not indicative of anything other than a bad day. He's never looked that bad, even when he was rookie. He gets a pass on it for now as long as it doesn't happen again like that. In the second half it looked like they finally just opened it up some. He looked more decisive and overcame his "issues" from earlier. [B] It's the only time I can remember that I felt like he was just really playing the game to win rather than playing it not to lose. Our D kept us in the game. JC won the game[/B].[/quote]

Good points. JC was going for the win, INT's be damned, and that was good to see.

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[quote=Mattyk72;602489]He did throw 2 pretty big TD passes, no? Guess I must have imagined that.

Keep on hatin'.[/quote]

And you believe that the two TD passes makes up for having 4 turnovers? 99% of the time in this league, if a QB throws 3 (almost 4) INT's, loses a fumble on top of that and even in the second half didnt do anything spectacular against a ridiculously poor defense, that team will lose the game. Thank god we had a defense shut them down to basically only 6 points.

Now the thing about Cutler, I never really said anything concerning him, and I sure aint on his stick, but lemme take a shot at this.

How many times has Cutler, in his career, albeit short, thrown for 350+ yards, and compare that to Campbells. How many three td games has campbell ever had? compare that to cutlers, shoot, Cutler even has a better winning pct. with much worse defenses.......Why?

Because he makes plays. Teams need to account for him. Hes a weapon. He influences games, not just manages them in a piss poor manner, hoping not to make a mistake to influence it in a negative way. Teams DO NOT look at the upcoming game with the skins and say, "We've better account for this guy every play, or hes gonna eat us alive." Know why? Because hes never done that at all in his entire career against even the POOREST of teams.(Just look at our first three games this year.)Oh, and look what Cutlers doing in Chicago, with absolutely NO receiver corps of any kind. Campbell has better weapons, hes just not a winner.

Now, let the excuses flow. (like I said, where is the allegiance to this mediocre soul coming from anywho?)

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[quote=Mechanix544;602790]And you believe that the two TD passes makes up for having 4 turnovers? 99% of the time in this league, if a QB throws 3 (almost 4) INT's, loses a fumble on top of that and even in the second half didnt do anything spectacular against a ridiculously poor defense, that team will lose the game. Thank god we had a defense shut them down to basically only 6 points.

Now the thing about Cutler, I never really said anything concerning him, and I sure aint on his stick, but lemme take a shot at this.

How many times has Cutler, in his career, albeit short, thrown for 350+ yards, and compare that to Campbells. How many three td games has campbell ever had? compare that to cutlers, shoot, Cutler even has a better winning pct. with much worse defenses.......Why?

Because he makes plays. Teams need to account for him. Hes a weapon. He influences games, not just manages them in a piss poor manner, hoping not to make a mistake to influence it in a negative way. Teams DO NOT look at the upcoming game with the skins and say, "We've better account for this guy every play, or hes gonna eat us alive." Know why? Because hes never done that at all in his entire career against even the POOREST of teams.(Just look at our first three games this year.)Oh, and look what Cutlers doing in Chicago, with absolutely NO receiver corps of any kind. Campbell has better weapons, hes just not a winner.

Now, let the excuses flow. (like I said, where is the allegiance to this mediocre soul coming from anywho?)[/quote]

If at the end of the day there's a 'W' then yeah I'd say he made up for the turnovers.

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If Cutler throws 3 INT's and wins, nobody says s**t. Nobody cares because he WINS. I've heard that 1000 times. Well that's what JC did yesterday.

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Matty, I have to ask you -- when the buzz earlier in the year was all about Jay Cutler and then Mark Sanchez, we all agreed that Campbell has to absolutely light it up this year and make the case that he can be a playmaking difference maker at QB.

After four games, do you really think he has done that? Has he made Snyder and Cerrato think twice about trying to trade him and toy around with the idea of Sanchez?

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Went with the d-fense.....However I'm mindful of the opposition as well. Hall, Tryon, and Jarmon made good individual plays.

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[quote=Beemnseven;602807]Matty, I have to ask you -- when the buzz earlier in the year was all about Jay Cutler and then Mark Sanchez, we all agreed that Campbell has to absolutely light it up this year and make the case that he can be a playmaking difference maker at QB.

After four games, do you really think he has done that? Has he made Snyder and Cerrato think twice about trying to trade him and toy around with the idea of Sanchez?[/quote]

I'm not Matty but here's my answer: He's not "lighting it up" but he has shown improvement across the board (except for the 3 INTs vs. TB) and has better numbers than Cutler and Sanchez this season, so I think we made the right decision.

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I wouldn't give it to the defense! Watched a well known corner that we once had save a game for Denver yesterday...Romo made the mistake of throwing in his direction. If only we had him now. The 'Skins' corners scare me. I wonder what the defense will look like against Dallas and Philly?

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[quote=Buster;602823]I'm not Matty but here's my answer: He's not "lighting it up" but he has shown improvement across the board (except for the 3 INTs vs. TB) and has better numbers than Cutler and Sanchez this season, so I think we made the right decision.[/quote]

As far as Sanchez goes, you're right, Campbell's numbers are better which is what you'd expect when comparing a five-year veteran to a rookie.

Cutler has the same number of INTs, three more TDs and a higher QB rating. Amazingly, he has 62 fewer yards than Campbell passing.

I've said it before, but one of the hallmarks of a great, "franchise" quarterback is the ability to make players around him better. I don't see Campbell doing that. Cutler probably has a better line, and Forte right now is probably better than Portis, but as far as receivers go, I don't see how Chicago is much better than we are.

If you give Campbell a better offensive line and better playmakers, I think he'd be fine as our QB of the future. Problem is, that's not going to be the plan of action for this front office, I'm afraid.

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[quote=Mechanix544;602790]And you believe that the two TD passes makes up for having 4 turnovers? 99% of the time in this league, if a QB throws 3 (almost 4) INT's, loses a fumble on top of that and [B]even in the second half didnt do anything spectacular against a ridiculously poor defense[/B], that team will lose the game. Thank god we had a defense shut them down to basically only 6 points.

Now the thing about Cutler, I never really said anything concerning him, and I sure aint on his stick, but lemme take a shot at this.

How many times has Cutler, in his career, albeit short, thrown for 350+ yards, and compare that to Campbells. How many three td games has campbell ever had? compare that to cutlers, shoot, Cutler even has a better winning pct. with much worse defenses.......Why?

Because he makes plays. Teams need to account for him. Hes a weapon. He influences games, not just manages them in a piss poor manner, hoping not to make a mistake to influence it in a negative way. Teams DO NOT look at the upcoming game with the skins and say, "We've better account for this guy every play, or hes gonna eat us alive." Know why? Because hes never done that at all in his entire career against even the POOREST of teams.(Just look at our first three games this year.)Oh, and look what Cutlers doing in Chicago, with absolutely NO receiver corps of any kind. Campbell has better weapons, hes just not a winner.

Now, let the excuses flow. (like I said, where is the allegiance to this mediocre soul coming from anywho?)[/quote]

So I guess leading the team to two touchdowns and a field goal in the third quarter doesn't qualify as anything spectacular, esp. not Moss' 59 yard td catch that he caught in stride and didn't have to make an adjustment for or anything? That was pure luck right?

And let me ask you a question since you are so high on Cutler. How many times, in his career, has Cutler had a huge game but the Broncos still lost despite that effort?

You are basically saying the Redskins won this game in spite of Jason Campbell, and not because he led the team to the points that won the game.

I'm just sick how you are looking at JC's stat line and thinking that's what to expect from him. Dude has 1 career 3 pick game in almost 3 seasons as a starting qb and now all of a sudden he's some horrible quarterback. He made the plays that put the points on the board and won the game for us. No matter how you look at it that's what it comes down to.

And I can guarantee you Carolina's coaches are looking at the game film from the Bucs game and saying, we better account for Jason Campbell and keep pressure on him otherwise he's gonna go deep to Moss all game.

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[quote=mooby;602847]So I guess leading the team to two touchdowns and a field goal in the third quarter doesn't qualify as anything spectacular, esp. not [B]Moss' 59 yard td catch that he caught in stride and didn't have to make an adjustment for or anything? That was pure luck right? [/B]

And let me ask you a question since you are so high on Cutler. How many times, in his career, has Cutler had a huge game but the Broncos still lost despite that effort?

You are basically saying the Redskins won this game in spite of Jason Campbell, and not because he led the team to the points that won the game.

I'm just sick how you are looking at JC's stat line and thinking that's what to expect from him. Dude has 1 career 3 pick game in almost 3 seasons as a starting qb and now all of a sudden he's some horrible quarterback. He made the plays that put the points on the board and won the game for us. No matter how you look at it that's what it comes down to.

And I can guarantee you Carolina's coaches are looking at the game film from the Bucs game and saying, we better account for Jason Campbell and keep pressure on him otherwise he's gonna go deep to Moss all game.[/quote]

I'm not Mechanix544, but I'll chime in here -- that 59-yarder to Moss was a thing of beauty, but Campbell misses on those way more than he connects. The downfield accuracy just isn't there for JC, though I do believe with more attempts he could get better.

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[quote=Mattyk72;602796]If at the end of the day there's a 'W' then yeah I'd say he made up for the turnovers.[/quote]
No he did not make up for the Ints it was the D that made up for the 4 turnovers by not allowing TB to convert them into points.

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[quote=Beemnseven;602849]I'm not Mechanix544, but I'll chime in here -- that 59-yarder to Moss was a thing of beauty, but Campbell misses on those way more than he connects. The downfield accuracy just isn't there for JC, though I do believe with more attempts he could get better.[/quote]

I know and agree he misses on a lot of deep balls, but my point was that at least it shows we are capable of going deep and executing, which will put fear into opposing defenses. That wasn't the first time Campbell's gone deep to Moss and connected, I remember a certain Saints game last year where we got the winning points off a Campbell to Moss deep ball. My point is that Mechanix says he doesn't do anything spectacular, or anything at all in the second half that helped the team, when that's clearly not the case.

Edit: I also want to give Greg Blache props for putting Tryon in the slot, where he stepped up and made plays and generally looked and played way better than Smoot has recently. I hope this trend continues.

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I am not defending Cutler, like I said in my first post, I've never even mentioned his name before the above post. But you did make my point for me. If Cutler had the defense that JC does, u think the Broncs still go 8 - 8 last year? Hell No. Cut and dry, plain and simple, Cutler is a better quarterback than JC.

Now, let me also get this straight before people start lobbing rotten tomatoes, used condoms, and brussel sprouts (?) my way. I am not a JC hater. I hope he leads us to the Super Bowl. I am just tired of the excuses and waiting for some explosiveness. Our team hasn't gone over the 20 point mark, in what, 20+ games? Id love for him to succeed just as much as the next guy, shoot, I root for him on Sunday ticket and love watching the burgandy and gold every sunday. But I also, as a fan, cant help but look at the Mannings, Bradys, Ryans, Flaccos, Rothlisbergers, Rivers, Brees', shoot, even the Warners of this league and wish my team could have what they have. A Strong QB, not just one who slides by, week by week. Not hatin', just wishin' I guess.

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Defense

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[quote=davy;602436]I voted other.

I give it to Tampa for being so bad even we could beat them.[/quote]

I voted other for their Kicker;)

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[quote=Beemnseven;602836]As far as Sanchez goes, you're right, Campbell's numbers are better which is what you'd expect when comparing a five-year veteran to a rookie.

Cutler has the same number of INTs, three more TDs and a higher QB rating. Amazingly, he has 62 fewer yards than Campbell passing.

I've said it before, but one of the hallmarks of a great, "franchise" quarterback is the ability to make players around him better. I don't see Campbell doing that. Cutler probably has a better line, and Forte right now is probably better than Portis, but as far as receivers go, I don't see how Chicago is much better than we are.

If you give Campbell a better offensive line and better playmakers, I think he'd be fine as our QB of the future. Problem is, that's not going to be the plan of action for this front office, I'm afraid.[/quote]

Valid point and I agree that Campbell would do fine on a team that was stacked everywhere else, like the Titans of last year or the Ravens Super Bowl team. Unfortunately, it doesn't appear that the Skins will be that kind of team anytime soon.

That said, it's reasonable to think that Campbell will not be here next year, and if he's not here I highly doubt he'll be starting for any other team. I could be wrong and would be the first to admit it if I was (gleefully), but I believe he's destined to be another in a long line of Redskins starting QBs that go on to become someone else's backup.

When was the last time we had a QB that other teams coveted? Other than Trent Green and Brad Johnson (who eventually went on to become a backup), I can't remember the last time we had a QB that another team actually wanted to make their starter.

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[quote=Beemnseven;602836]As far as Sanchez goes, you're right, Campbell's numbers are better which is what you'd expect when comparing a five-year veteran to a rookie.

Cutler has the same number of INTs, three more TDs and a higher QB rating. Amazingly, he has 62 fewer yards than Campbell passing.

I've said it before, but one of the hallmarks of a great, "franchise" quarterback is the ability to make players around him better. I don't see Campbell doing that. Cutler probably has a better line, and Forte right now is probably better than Portis, but as far as receivers go, I don't see how Chicago is much better than we are.

If you give Campbell a better offensive line and better playmakers, I think he'd be fine as our QB of the future. Problem is, that's not going to be the plan of action for this front office, I'm afraid.[/quote]Is Cutler making his receivers any better though? Where's the Greg Olsen breakout season everyone was predicting? What about the rapport he's supposed to have with Earl Bennett?

Johnnie Knox is having a great year, but do we really know enough about Knox to say he's a product of Cutler? Maybe he's just an explosive player.

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[quote=firstdown;602855]No he did not make up for the Ints it was the D that made up for the 4 turnovers by not allowing TB to convert them into points.[/quote]

We all expect the D to be able to hold especially to what we perceive as a team we should beat. I would like to see continued aggressive play calling with the potential of some quick strikes. If it leads to an Int, let the D handle the pressure.

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Wow...14 votes for Campbell? :doh:

The guy throws for 3 ints, and has 2 fumbles, 1 lost (4 total turnovers)...throws for only 170 yards and 54.5% comp (especially considering how people are thumping his stats as reasons why we should extend him, or why he's so good etc), but somehow people think he's MVP? LVP maybe, but MVP...PFFFF. How ANYONE can say a person with 2 tds and 4 turnovers is MVP is well...you can fill in the blank. Yet again, Campbell shows us why he doesn't deserve to be our starter, this time he backed it up with concrete stats.

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[quote=jsarno;603187]Wow...14 votes for Campbell? :doh:

The guy throws for 3 ints, and has 2 fumbles, 1 lost (4 total turnovers)...throws for only 170 yards and 54.5% comp (especially considering how people are thumping his stats as reasons why we should extend him, or why he's so good etc), but somehow people think he's MVP? LVP maybe, but MVP...PFFFF. How ANYONE can say a person with 2 tds and 4 turnovers is MVP is well...you can fill in the blank. Yet again, Campbell shows us why he doesn't deserve to be our starter, this time he backed it up with concrete stats.[/quote]Convenient, isn't it?

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[quote=GTripp0012;603190]Convenient, isn't it?[/quote]

Sarcasm noted.

Campbell is just like Obama...UNTOUCHABLE. Why everyone thinks he is the next champion is beyond me. We won DESPITE campbell. Congrats to the Skins for overcoming the ineptitude of our QB!

Hey, I was on the campbell side at one time...I thought he needed more time, and he showed glimpses of being good...but he's either amazingly slow developing, or we are just HOPING he turns into what we want.

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[quote=jsarno;603195]Sarcasm noted.

Campbell is just like Obama...UNTOUCHABLE. Why everyone thinks he is the next champion is beyond me. We won DESPITE campbell. Congrats to the Skins for overcoming the ineptitude of our QB!

Hey, I was on the campbell side at one time...I thought he needed more time, and he showed glimpses of being good...but he's either amazingly slow developing, or we are just HOPING he turns into what we want.[/quote]

Yeah, despite the 4 turnovers Campbell didn't do anything in the third quarter that gave us the lead and was the reason why we won the game. The D scored those points with their outrageously good play ;).

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[quote=Mechanix544;602790]And you believe that the two TD passes makes up for having 4 turnovers? 99% of the time in this league, if a QB throws 3 (almost 4) INT's, loses a fumble on top of that and even in the second half didnt do anything spectacular against a ridiculously poor defense, that team will lose the game. Thank god we had a defense shut them down to basically only 6 points.

Now the thing about Cutler, I never really said anything concerning him, and I sure aint on his stick, but lemme take a shot at this.

How many times has Cutler, in his career, albeit short, thrown for 350+ yards, and compare that to Campbells. How many three td games has campbell ever had? compare that to cutlers, shoot, Cutler even has a better winning pct. with much worse defenses.......Why?

Because he makes plays. Teams need to account for him. Hes a weapon. He influences games, not just manages them in a piss poor manner, hoping not to make a mistake to influence it in a negative way. Teams DO NOT look at the upcoming game with the skins and say, "We've better account for this guy every play, or hes gonna eat us alive." Know why? Because hes never done that at all in his entire career against even the POOREST of teams.(Just look at our first three games this year.)Oh, and look what Cutlers doing in Chicago, with absolutely NO receiver corps of any kind. Campbell has better weapons, hes just not a winner.

Now, let the excuses flow. (like I said, where is the allegiance to this mediocre soul coming from anywho?)[/quote]

Thats great you showing your man crush on Jay Cutler. Why don't you go and get on the Bears bandwagon now. We won't miss you around here. Cutler had how many picks against the Bears when they lost? :blah:

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[quote=Mechanix544;603024]I am not defending Cutler, like I said in my first post, I've never even mentioned his name before the above post. But you did make my point for me. If Cutler had the defense that JC does, u think the Broncs still go 8 - 8 last year? Hell No. Cut and dry, plain and simple, Cutler is a better quarterback than JC.

Now, let me also get this straight before people start lobbing rotten tomatoes, used condoms, and brussel sprouts (?) my way. I am not a JC hater. I hope he leads us to the Super Bowl. I am just tired of the excuses and waiting for some explosiveness. Our team hasn't gone over the 20 point mark, in what, 20+ games? Id love for him to succeed just as much as the next guy, shoot, I root for him on Sunday ticket and love watching the burgandy and gold every sunday. But I also, as a fan, cant help but look at the Mannings, Bradys, Ryans, Flaccos, Rothlisbergers, Rivers, Brees', shoot, even the Warners of this league and wish my team could have what they have. A Strong QB, not just one who slides by, week by week. Not hatin', just wishin' I guess.[/quote]

Since you are wishing why not wish for JC to become the next P.Manning or Brady. Instead you rather have the other teams QB's. That won't happen cause good teams dont give a way franchise QB's. :cool-smil

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D. Hall gets the game ball hands down, he woke use up. He inspired the whole team with that pick.It seemed to come right on time, JC came back out and went nut. All of the great QBs have had games like this, learning how to win those ugly games when everything is going wrong, that makes you pretty special.

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[quote=redskinslick;603294]D. Hall gets the game ball hands down, he woke use up. He inspired the whole team with that pick.It seemed to come right on time, JC came back out and went nut. All of the great QBs have had games like this, learning how to win those ugly games when everything is going wrong, that makes you pretty special.[/quote]

So now we are using the term "pretty special" to describe JC?

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[quote=jsarno;603195]Sarcasm noted.

Campbell is just like Obama...UNTOUCHABLE. Why everyone thinks he is the next champion is beyond me. We won DESPITE campbell. Congrats to the Skins for overcoming the ineptitude of our QB!

Hey, I was on the campbell side at one time...I thought he needed more time, and he showed glimpses of being good...but he's either amazingly slow developing, or we are just HOPING he turns into what we want.[/quote]Hey, you know me well enough to know I'm not part of the crowd that sees the two TD passes in the third quarter and says, "wow, Jason Campbell really showed me something today." I don't see any positives in a bad performance. Others do. There's nothing wrong with that. I'm a stats guy first and I'm being consistent.

What Jason Campbell [I]can be[/I] in this league is still very much up in the air. What he [I]is[/I]: a known quantity at this point. If that makes him Barack Obama in your mind, well, um, okay. It's a horrible comparison for any number of reasons. As a known quantity though, he's rarely the reason we win or lose close games. Which makes small-sample analysis of his play largely if not completely unnecessary.

What he is right now, and what he will be for the next three weeks at least, is a guy who is leading a passing offense that may be incapable of leading us into the end zone with consistency, but might be our only offensive weapon. That's got a lot of value, but at the end of the day, it's not the difference between winning and losing.

If the OL gels, Campbell might be able to go out and snatch some wins from the jaws of defeat. Until then, he is what he is. And the analysis is best spent other places. Like: how does the punter hurt his groin? C'mon, you know you want to talk about groins and punters!