Re: If Chris Samuels does retire..?
 

Samuels--Dock--Montgomery/Rabach--Rinehart--Rookie

Rookie--Dock--Montgomery/Rabach--Rinehart--Rookie

i dont think it looks so bad for the future as long as we draft o-line in the first round...

Re: If Chris Samuels does retire..?
 

If this is the end of Samuels' career I'll be sad it ended this way, in the midst of the most disappointing season I've seen in a long time bar none. Health is way more important than football so obviously if he does hang it up I wish him the best. God knows I ain't old enough to judge whether he's been up there with all the Redskins greats but he deserves his spot because he just gave us 10 solid years of left tackle play, which can't be taken for granted in this league.

And I'd love to wish and hope that this would be the catalyst for change that the Redskins need but at this point I wouldn't be suprised if the status quo remained the same and Vinny/Dan kept on keepin' on like they always do.

Re: If Chris Samuels does retire..?
 

[quote=Big C;609116]Samuels--Dock--Montgomery/Rabach--Rinehart--Rookie

Rookie--Dock--Montgomery/Rabach--Rinehart--Rookie

i dont think it looks so bad for the future as long as we draft o-line in the first round...[/quote]

Monty did fill in fair when RT went down. And he is a center as well.

It will be interesting to see how he holds up this Sunday for a whole game at Right Guard.

I think Casey is running out of time, in the big picture, maybe one more year, best case.

Don't think we have to much in Rhino as of now. Hope he develops.

Re: If Chris Samuels does retire..?
 

Good job Vinny. Your dedication to best player available is to be commended. How about we put Devin Thomas at LT. It's not like he's catching passes.

Re: If Chris Samuels does retire..?
 

[quote=Dirtbag359;609161]Good job Vinny. Your dedication to best player available is to be commended. How about we put Devin Thomas at LT. It's not like he's catching passes.[/quote]

To be fair, Orakpo was too good to pass up.


I do agree that we should have addressed the line before LAST year, but that's in the past.

It's sad to see Samuels end it this way, but he needs to walk away while he can still walk. We've been lucky to have him, Randy Thomas and Jon Jansen all of these years, but the era is over. I believe Randy is finished too. He just can't stay healthy even with his intense training and hard work to get back.

Re: If Chris Samuels does retire..?
 

[quote=skinsfan_nn;609064][B]What younger guys are you talking about[/B].....? Oh you mean Heyer, I think we know the answer to that Terp project. Ok, maybe as a backup. But certainly not a starter in this league, well except for the Skins!

And Rhino....he's lacking a little confidence, but he really is getting pushed around like a girl. That should about answer that.[/quote]
the rookie Williams. isn't he a center by trade? lets get him out there. screw Rabach. we all know he sucks. what about Alexander? or is he done playing offense?

Re: If Chris Samuels does retire..?
 

[quote=dmek25;609382]the rookie Williams. isn't he a center by trade? lets get him out there. screw Rabach. we all know he sucks. what about Alexander? or is he done playing offense?[/quote]

Agreed...get Edwin on the field and "Raback-the-team-up-another-5-yards" off!

Re: If Chris Samuels does retire..?
 

[quote=Buster;609310][B]To be fair, Orakpo was too good to pass up.[/B]

[/quote]

I definitely agree with that. However this goes deeper then the 13th pick. In 2008 they only chose one offensive lineman. In 2009 they didn't even take a shot during the draft. They've hedged their bets with other positions like WR and LB however when it comes to the OL they just haven't done anything worthwhile. At the very least they should have signed Ray Willis to compliment the signing of Dockery. Now we're in the middle of 2009 with our two best offensive lineman possibly out for the year.

There were plenty of quality lineman in the draft in 2009 that possibly could have helped us. Tony Kropog, [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonathan_Luigs"]Jonathan Luigs[/URL], [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seth_Olsen"]Seth Olsen[/URL], [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fenuki_Tupou"]Fenuki Tupou[/URL], Jamon Merideth, Duke Robinson, and Herman Johnson. All players that we could only benefit from having on our team at this point. Maybe they wouldn't have been all-pro's but it certainly couldn't be much worse then what we have now.

I fear that if Vinny has total control with the draft again our first pick will be a CB.

Re: If Chris Samuels does retire..?
 

[quote=dmek25;609382]the rookie Williams. isn't he a center by trade? lets get him out there. screw Rabach. we all know he sucks. what about Alexander? or is he done playing offense?[/quote]Alexander needs to be on the field...on Defense. He's absolutely earned the right to be Griffin's replacement in the defense.

Of course, you've GOT to get Golston his snaps (sarcasm intended), so can't play him.

Starting DL next year (assuming we stay with the 4-3): Orakpo, Jarmon, Alexander, and Haynesworth.

Re: If Chris Samuels does retire..?
 

Larry Michaels said the other day that all of this may turn out for the best. He said that Heyer was a "natural left tackle" - - because that's where he played at Maryland. And he said that Mike Williams is a "natural tackle" and this move will put him back at tackle instead of at guard.


Recall back in the spring when Vinny told us all that Heyer was "unbeatable" when he remembered to stay low - - but he didn't always remember.


Sounds to me as if some folks tied to the organization have had too much sunshine pumped up their a$$...

Re: If Chris Samuels does retire..?
 

[quote=Dirtbag359;609397]I definitely agree with that. However this goes deeper then the 13th pick. In 2008 they only chose one offensive lineman. In 2009 they didn't even take a shot during the draft. They've hedged their bets with other positions like WR and LB however when it comes to the OL they just haven't done anything worthwhile. At the very least they should have signed Ray Willis to compliment the signing of Dockery. Now we're in the middle of 2009 with our two best offensive lineman possibly out for the year.

There were plenty of quality lineman in the draft in 2009 that possibly could have helped us. Tony Kropog, [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonathan_Luigs"]Jonathan Luigs[/URL], [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seth_Olsen"]Seth Olsen[/URL], [URL="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fenuki_Tupou"]Fenuki Tupou[/URL], Jamon Merideth, Duke Robinson, and Herman Johnson. All players that we could only benefit from having on our team at this point. Maybe they wouldn't have been all-pro's but it certainly couldn't be much worse then what we have now.

I fear that if Vinny has total control with the draft again our first pick will be a CB.[/quote]

Duke Robinson and TJ Lang were both players I thought we should have picked up over henson and glenn

Re: If Chris Samuels does retire..?
 

[quote=GTripp0012;609436]Alexander needs to be on the field...on Defense. He's absolutely earned the right to be Griffin's replacement in the defense.

Of course, you've GOT to get Golston his snaps (sarcasm intended), so can't play him.

Starting DL next year (assuming we stay with the 4-3): Orakpo, Jarmon, Alexander, and Haynesworth.[/quote]

I dont think alexander is good enough to be a starter imho.

Re: If Chris Samuels does retire..?
 

In related news in Zorns press talk today on Washington Redskin.com, he said the team would be bringing in some O-Line guys to take a look at. The video was just released in the last 1/2 hour.

[URL="http://www.redskins.com/gen/index.jsp"]Washington Redskins[/URL]

Samuels' season may be done
Posted by Tom Curran on October 16, 2009 3:52 PM ET

The hits keep coming for the Washington Redskins. Citing "league sources" the Washington Post is reporting that Pro Bowl left tackle Chris Samuels may be done for the year.

That was pretty much what we feared the other day when we saw Gregg Rosenthal's post the other day that said the 32-year-old was suffering from spinal stenosis, which is a narrowing of the spine, and that Washington coach Jim Zorn said the team was "still working through" his long-term prognosis.

Stephon Heyer will replace Samuels, according to the Post, while Mike Williams -- who made his first NFL start since 2005 last Sunday -- kicks out to right guard.

Rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic is what they call it, I believe.

Re: If Chris Samuels does retire..?
 

--Heyer--Dock--Rabach--Montgomery--Williams--

starting line for the chiefs. the interior isnt too bad. those tackles...man they could get a lot of pressure on the edge.

Re: If Chris Samuels does retire..?
 

Is it not clear, whether if Rhino is hurt or not? If Rhino isn't, then why the hell isn't he on the field? From what I have seen on games (granted, I'm not experienced in this field) but he looks alright.. He may not be great as we hoped him to be, but I think he still has some potentials though?

Re: If Chris Samuels does retire..?
 

[quote=CultBrennan59;609486]Duke Robinson and TJ Lang were both players I thought we should have picked up over henson and glenn[/quote]

Duke Robinson should have been a no brainer. Especially since Cody Glenn is in Indy now. We needed OL, and a guy was on the board who was projected as a 2nd rounder.

Re: If Chris Samuels does retire..?
 

I hate to see this to Samuels, but I won't be negative. There are several positives that could come about.

1) Heyer gets back at the position he was a starter at for Maryland
2) Big Mike isn't playing guard, but back at his natural position as well.
3) Dock's a solid LG, and didn't Heyer work out with them all in AZ?
4) Would like to see continuity with Rinehart in at RG, but he has a shoulder injury. We'll get to see a full game of Montgomery and see how well he can hold up.

I would be OK with us filling Samuels' spot with a OT, but for depth purposes only. I can't really see us getting to a winning season this year unfortunately, so 11 games with the Heyer/Williams experiment, at LT + RT respectively, will help "our extra set of eyes" Sherm Lewis make some judgement calls.

Re: If Chris Samuels does retire..?
 

[quote=franklinhimself;609529]I hate to see this to Samuels, but I won't be negative. There are several positives that could come about.

1) Heyer gets back at the position he was a starter at for Maryland
2) Big Mike isn't playing guard, but back at his natural position as well.
3) Dock's a solid LG, and didn't Heyer work out with them all in AZ?
4) Would like to see continuity with Rinehart in at RG, but he has a shoulder injury. We'll get to see a full game of Montgomery and see how well he can hold up.

I would be OK with us filling Samuels' spot with a OT, but for depth purposes only. I can't really see us getting to a winning season this year unfortunately, so 11 games with the Heyer/Williams experiment, at LT + RT respectively, will help "our extra set of eyes" Sherm Lewis make some judgement calls.[/quote]

Excellent points.

Re: If Chris Samuels does retire..?
 

Does anyone know how a Samuels retirement would effect our cap?

Re: If Chris Samuels does retire..?
 

[quote=GridIron26;609504]Is it not clear, [B]whether if Rhino is hurt or not?[/B] If Rhino isn't, then why the hell isn't he on the field? From what I have seen on games (granted, I'm not experienced in this field) but he looks alright.. He may not be great as we hoped him to be, but I think he still has some potentials though?[/quote]

Supposedly Rhino has an ailing shoulder...? Listen to Zorn talking to media today, he discusses this.

[url=http://www.redskins.com/gen/index.jsp]Washington Redskins[/url]

Re: If Chris Samuels does retire..?
 

Appears Rhino thinks he still can play, regardless of the pain..

[url=http://voices.washingtonpost.com/redskinsinsider/jason-reid/rhino-battered-shoulder-bruise.html]Redskins Insider - Rhino: Battered Shoulder, Bruised Ego[/url]

Re: If Chris Samuels does retire..?
 

[quote=GridIron26;609549]Appears Rhino thinks he still can play, regardless of the pain..

[url=http://voices.washingtonpost.com/redskinsinsider/jason-reid/rhino-battered-shoulder-bruise.html]Redskins Insider - Rhino: Battered Shoulder, Bruised Ego[/url][/quote]

Yes but he also said it's weak and it's a matter of getting the strength back so he can stay on his blocks. He even said it would probably be a game time decision. Doesn't sound like someone you would want to start. I actually understand the decision to start Montgomery better now.

Re: If Chris Samuels does retire..?
 

[quote=53Fan;609557]Yes but he also said it's weak and it's a matter of getting the strength back so he can stay on his blocks. He even said it would probably be a game time decision. Doesn't sound like someone you would want to start. I actually understand the decision to start Montgomery better now.[/quote]

Yea, I agree.. But I also think Zorn and Bugel should talk to Rhino about this role.. It doesn't sound like Rhino is good at taking criticisms, so there's no need to make it worse when they can talk about it..

Re: If Chris Samuels does retire..?
 

[quote=skinsfan_nn;609498]in related news in zorns press talk today on washington redskin.com, he said the team would be bringing in some o-line guys to take a look at. The video was just released in the last 1/2 hour.

[URL="http://www.redskins.com/gen/index.jsp"]washington redskins[/URL]

samuels' season may be done
posted by tom curran on october 16, 2009 3:52 pm et

the hits keep coming for the washington redskins. Citing "league sources" the washington post is reporting that pro bowl left tackle chris samuels may be done for the year.

That was pretty much what we feared the other day when we saw gregg rosenthal's post the other day that said the 32-year-old was suffering from spinal stenosis, which is a narrowing of the spine, and that washington coach jim zorn said the team was "still working through" his long-term prognosis.

Stephon heyer will replace samuels, according to the post, while mike williams -- who made his first nfl start since 2005 last sunday -- kicks out to right guard.
[B]
rearranging the deck chairs on the titanic is what they call it, i believe.[/B][/quote]

lmao!!

Seriously though, I've got to think there are some guys out there who could come in and contribute.

Re: If Chris Samuels does retire..?
 

We better make a move.NOW!

Re: If Chris Samuels does retire..?
 

Who is exactly out there? And when can we get someone?

Re: If Chris Samuels does retire..?
 

[quote=warpaint;609621]Who is exactly out there? And when can we get someone?[/quote]

Levi Jones is still a free agent

Re: If Chris Samuels does retire..?
 

[quote=WaldSkins;609622]Levi Jones is still a free agent[/quote]

So whats his story? Asking price to high or just a bad seed or is he injury plagued.

Re: If Chris Samuels does retire..?
 

Can we get Kendall and Runyan here?

Jesus!
How did we not see this coming? Cerrato should be fired for this alone.

Re: If Chris Samuels does retire..?
 

I just wanted to say that Heyer is the worst left tackle I have ever seen. He sucks as a right tackle also.

Re: If Chris Samuels does retire..?
 

[url=http://www.csnwashington.com/pages/landing_redskins/?blockID=81802&feedID=2993]Samuels Blog: More Than Just Football[/url]

Re: If Chris Samuels does retire..?
 

[quote=Luxorreb;609655]Can we get Kendall and Runyan here?

Jesus!
[B]How did we not see this coming? [/B] Cerrato should be fired for this alone.[/quote]

If by "we" you mean the Redskins as an organization, that's the million dollar question.

But if you mean "we" at The Warpath, "we" [U]did[/U] see this coming. That's a drum that's been beaten around these parts since before the '07 season.

Obviously, they don't listen to us.

Re: If Chris Samuels does retire..?
 

[quote=Beemnseven;612732]If by "we" you mean the Redskins as an organization, that's the million dollar question.

But if you mean "we" at The Warpath, "we" [U]did[/U] see this coming. That's a drum that's been beaten around these parts since before the '07 season.

Obviously, they don't listen to us.[/quote]

Damn strait. I wanted Oher, Tits Maggie, Mack, Duke, and Loadholt. Just one or two of those guys, which we could've gottten, would've made a big difference [U]right now[/U].

Re: If Chris Samuels does retire..?
 

I liked the Orakpo pick, but now I'm starting to waver on whether that was the right way to go. If you're going to get Jarmon in the supplemental draft, and if you're going to play Orakpo at linebacker, and you have a defensive coordinator who thinks that quarterback sacks are overrated, then maybe they should have taken Oher.

Re: If Chris Samuels does retire..?
 

Thanks to Danny/Vinny's approach to team development, the Redskins are NOT an effective replacement for Chris Samuels away from having a good offensive line, much less a great one. Effective management recognizes that great teams start with the OL and DL, and that lines can only be build through drafting IN DEPTH. That's how the Giants, Patriots, and Broncos have been doing it.

The problem is long-term, and it starts with Snyder's ineptitude.

Re: If Chris Samuels does retire..?
 

so if he hangs it up (which i hope he does for the sake of his health)- we take a 14.4 (ish) mill cap hit right in his release, right? Does the NFL give you any injury relief? I know 2010 could be uncapped anyway, but I just want to know what we would be looking at cap wise.

Re: If Chris Samuels does retire..?
 

There's no injury relief, we have to take the hit.

Re: If Chris Samuels does retire..?
 

[quote=Mattyk72;613313]There's no injury relief, we have to take the hit.[/quote]Well, the money guaranteed to him has to hit the cap sometime. But I don't think it will accelerate. Deion didn't play here in 2001 or 2002, but they didn't accelerate his cap hit until December of 2002.

I'd imagine you could do something with Samuels that's similar.

Re: If Chris Samuels does retire..?
 

^^ I wonder if we could IR him for the 2010-2011 year, pay his salary, then cut him in April of 2011 designating him a 2011-12 cut - eating up three years of pro-rated salary cap (2009-10, 10-11, 11-12) and be hit only with the remainder for the 2012 year.
His salary for the 2010-211 is only ~1.6M, but his release fee is 14M.

In this way, and if I am reading the Canuck's cap sheets correctly, he would count against the cap 4.8 in 2010-11, ~3m in 11-12 (prorated portion of SB only), and ~7M in 12-13 (accelerated signing bonus).

The obvious problem is paying him his base pay in 2010-11. It is relatively low, but I am sure it is more than DS wants to pay someone who will not be playing.

Not sure if this is right - you would need Schneed or Canuck to check. But, basically, if DS pays his salary for a year, I think you can spread out his cap hit over an additional three years rather than taking it all next year.

Re: If Chris Samuels does retire..?
 

[quote=GTripp0012;613352]Well, the money guaranteed to him has to hit the cap sometime. But I don't think it will accelerate. Deion didn't play here in 2001 or 2002, but they didn't accelerate his cap hit until December of 2002.

I'd imagine you could do something with Samuels that's similar.[/quote]

I am almost 100% certain that if you trade or cut a player, any remaining signing bonus is accelerated into the current year. You would have to manipulate the release date in some fashion.