Re: Do You Want Jason Campbell Back in 2010?
 

[quote=Paintrain;647400]Not to derail this thread but for the NO folks out there, let's say you get your wish and he doesn't return. Who do you envision under center for the Redskins for the next 3 years and what is your confidence level that they will be better?

How much of this is the 80-20 rule meaning the most you will ever get is 80% of what you want from someone but many continue to chase that elusive 20% but never find it.[/quote]

Well seeing that we are currently sitting at four wins with the quarterback of the future leading the team, I'll take my chances on a new face. Even if we brought in a rookie, I doubt this team could do worse than four wins.

Re: Do You Want Jason Campbell Back in 2010?
 

Look at what Shanahan did for someone like [URL="http://www.nfl.com/players/jakeplummer/careerstats?id=PLU243945"]Jake Plummer[/URL]. He had his best years under him, I don't think it's too much of a stretch to think Shanahan could work wonders with JC, assuming he wants him as his QB.

Re: Do You Want Jason Campbell Back in 2010?
 

[quote=Paintrain;647400]Not to derail this thread but for the NO folks out there, let's say you get your wish and he doesn't return. Who do you envision under center for the Redskins for the next 3 years and what is your confidence level that they will be better?

How much of this is the 80-20 rule meaning the most you will ever get is 80% of what you want from someone but many continue to chase that elusive 20% but never find it.[/quote]


I am 100% certain whoever they bring in can do as good as JC did this year. I am 85% confident that person will play better than JC this year.

Re: Do You Want Jason Campbell Back in 2010?
 

You took my damn caviat away from me so I had to vote no.

I guess I should have voted yes only cause I do think he's an ok QB. He would be one of the best damn backups out there. By saying yes I would not be saying he's the starter just on the team next year to allow Shanahan to hopefully decide who starts.

But I could see if we are looking to turn this inside out just starting completely over.

Re: Do You Want Jason Campbell Back in 2010?
 

[quote=Paintrain;647400]Not to derail this thread but for the NO folks out there, let's say you get your wish and he doesn't return. Who do you envision under center for the Redskins for the next 3 years and what is your confidence level that they will be better?

How much of this is the 80-20 rule meaning the most you will ever get is 80% of what you want from someone but many continue to chase that elusive 20% but never find it.[/quote]

3 Years? So you'r saying you want JC for 3 more yrs? Campbell has had multiple chances to prove his worth. I like him as a player, he's a gamer but we have had this guy for long enough.. His poor decisions and bad pocket awareness kills me, it's like he never see's a BLITZ coming. It's not only this year, it's all the time. He never completes passes deep down field, and his motion is terrible. I'm 85% sure he won't be here next season and to be honest I don't think he wants to stay .

Re: Do You Want Jason Campbell Back in 2010?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;647398][B]The offensive line's struggles are too often a crutch or an excuse for Campbell's own struggles. [/B]

I struggle with this because I know it's not really Campbell's fault where he was drafted. But you don't trade multiple picks to get into the first round to draft a QB that can play well if everything around him is running smoothly. You spend a 6th round pick on a QB out of Washington State to do that.[/quote]

Agreed, but it's not like our O-line is just below average. They are absolutely god awful. Most of the time he doesn't even have time to plant his back foot. You mentioned in an earlier post (I think in the Smackdown thread) about Jason rushing throws and missing throws. It's kind of understandable that he would rush his progressions at times with the lack of protection he's had.

See, with Jason, the problem has been we're always switching systems, and when we decide to stick with a system, we provide him with an out and out joke of an O-line. We've set him up to fail repeatedly. I absolutely want to see what he can do in 2010 under Shanahan and a with a GM who will put a premium on finding him some protection.

Re: Do You Want Jason Campbell Back in 2010?
 

Last week they were god awful, but earlier in the year they were below-average to average and, to me at least, there were times that Campbell had more than enough time to make a play and didn't

Re: Do You Want Jason Campbell Back in 2010?
 

To be clear, I'm not saying we should lock up Jason with a long-term deal. I just don't think there is anyone out there, rookie or FA, who can do any better for us in 2010.

Re: Do You Want Jason Campbell Back in 2010?
 

No.

Ive been wavering back and forth all season on Campbell. Part of me thinks he can be decent with a good o-line and running game. But the fact is everything seems to move slower with JC. Too long in the pocket, too long in his progressions...

Put JC on a good team with a good o-line and he could probably be successful. But unfortunately that's not our team right now and I don't want to wait another 3 years to confirm that JC is average.

Re: Do You Want Jason Campbell Back in 2010?
 

i would have to go with yes but it up to the new regime.
what matty said..110%.

Re: Do You Want Jason Campbell Back in 2010?
 

I voted yes, but he's not our answer at qb. If we're drafting a guy then maybe he can backup for a 1/2 year-1 year. We don't have ANY other option at qb on the roster right now either.

Re: Do You Want Jason Campbell Back in 2010?
 

[quote=CrazyCanuck;647422]No.

Ive been wavering back and forth all season on Campbell. Part of me thinks he can be decent with a good o-line and running game. But the fact is everything seems to move slower with JC. Too long in the pocket, too long in his progressions...

Put JC on a good team with a good o-line and he could probably be successful. But unfortunately that's not our team right now and[B] I don't want to wait another 3 years to confirm that JC is average[/B].[/quote]

Where is everyone getting this three years stuff from? 2010 is the year in question. Nothing beyond.

For all the "NO" people out there, who do you want that could be any better?

We already know we have a solid but unspectacular QB in Campbell. I think most people agree that with our receiving corps improving, if we give JC a decent line and running game he can be a lot better. What if we don't bring him back and use a high first rounder on a QB that ends up being a bust? Top QB draft choices are a huge roll of the dice. If we miss on one and let Campbell walk, it could set us back a lot more than three years.

Re: Do You Want Jason Campbell Back in 2010?
 

No.

I'm tired of mediocrity. This entire team needs an overhaul, including the QB.

JC is just going to end up being the second coming of Patrick Ramsey.

...That's right I said it.

Re: Do You Want Jason Campbell Back in 2010?
 

I really think he will be back, but there will be a rookie in the mix for beyond 2010 or someone will be brought in via a trade.

Re: Do You Want Jason Campbell Back in 2010?
 

[quote=Mattyk;647429]I really think he will be back, but there will be a rookie in the mix for beyond 2010 or someone will be brought in via a trade.[/quote]

100% agree. No one will do a better job for us 2010 than JC, but we have to have a plan in place if he doesn't improve. This is what I think will happen, and I think it's the right move.

Re: Do You Want Jason Campbell Back in 2010?
 

go ahead and blow our first pick on a qb, but give a year or two as backup. so i voted to keep JC. as much as he sucks, he is the best we have right now.

Re: Do You Want Jason Campbell Back in 2010?
 

[quote=GMScud;647426]Where is everyone getting this three years stuff from? 2010 is the year in question. Nothing beyond.

For all the "NO" people out there, who do you want that could be any better?

We already know we have a solid but unspectacular QB in Campbell. I think most people agree that with our receiving corps improving, if we give JC a decent line and running game he can be a lot better. What if we don't bring him back and use a high first rounder on a QB that ends up being a bust? Top QB draft choices are a huge roll of the dice. If we miss on one and let Campbell walk, it could set us back a lot more than three years.[/quote]

What if the QB turns out to be great but we didnt take him because we tied ourselves to JC? Like I said, the potential reward of a new QB far outweighs being stuck with JC.

Re: Do You Want Jason Campbell Back in 2010?
 

[quote=GMScud;647417]To be clear, I'm not saying we should lock up Jason with a long-term deal. I just don't think there is anyone out there, rookie or FA, who can do any better for us in 2010.[/quote]

Hmmm. I see that maybe I wasn't clear in my original post. When I was asking if people wanted him back in 2010, I wasn't speaking of only [U]for[/U] 2010. I meant 2010 and beyond.

I guess, to put it another way, should we continue with Jason Campbell at all or just move on. That's what I meant by "no caveats" Fish or cut bait basically

Sorry for the confusion

Re: Do You Want Jason Campbell Back in 2010?
 

[quote=Redskin Warrior;647376]Truth is the skins are nowhere near superbowl contention moreless NFC East Champs next couple of years. Is time really a factor it's obvious he doesn't have protect now why place a high dollar investment in danger. When you have a guy that is first round draft that has shown his talent doesn't have a 30+ million dollar contract hasn't had the proper tools around him from day one. [I][B]The WR corp sucked when he took over the team for Brunell, the line has been injured & subpar every year since he has taken over.[/B][/I][/quote]
While I agree the Skins are nowhere near a Super Bowl contender, looking at the state of the NFC East, I believe they are within 3 years of winning the division, given that Allen and Shanny make the necessary moves to fill the holes.

I bolded your last sentence because I feel it's a pretty weak argument. For one, here are the WRs that were around when Campbell took the reins from Brunell in 2006: Moss, Randle El, Lloyd, Cooley, Thrash. 3 of those 5 guys are still around and the other 2 pieces have been improved in my opinion (Kelly, Thomas). Add Davis, and Campbell has it better now than he did in 2006.

As far as the O-Line goes, you can argue it's been subpar but you can argue that is has been adequate at times as well (Not this year). However, that comes and goes with the territory. An above average QB (see Rodgers, Aaron this year) can overcome a horrible O-Line.

How many more years of an average QB can the Redskins endure waiting for Campbell to find his spark? Other QBs have wasted no time proving that they are worthy of taking the reins. And while I want nothing more than Campbell to succeed, I just don't see it happening as a Redskin.

Re: Do You Want Jason Campbell Back in 2010?
 

[quote=GMScud;647431]100% agree. No one will do a better job for us 2010 than JC, but we have to have a plan in place if he doesn't improve. This is what I think will happen, and I think it's the right move.[/quote]

If JC played for another team and the Skins were talking about bringing him here for 2010 99% of the people on this site would be screaming bloody murder.

Re: Do You Want Jason Campbell Back in 2010?
 

No! He can't read defenses and will have to learn his # new offense (which seems to be a reason people give for his lack of development). He sucks in interviews and can't learn to slide!

I want a winner. Bring me Colt McCoy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Re: Do You Want Jason Campbell Back in 2010?
 

[quote=Paintrain;647400]Not to derail this thread but for the NO folks out there, let's say you get your wish and he doesn't return. Who do you envision under center for the Redskins for the next 3 years and what is your confidence level that they will be better?

How much of this is the 80-20 rule meaning the most you will ever get is 80% of what you want from someone but many continue to chase that elusive 20% but never find it.[/quote]

Well lets look at it this way.... Many teams out there said they didn't have JC on their radar and wondered why the Skins did? Most of the pundits after the draft said JC probably would have gone 4th round or later "IF" he was even drafted at all.

I think we are honestly gettig what most teams figured JC to provide...80% or less. We have been chasing the other 20% as you put it "with" JC. So if he's not going to be able to over come the other 20 or even give us 10% more then we might as well move on.

I'm not a Colt fan. I think he will throw too many interceptions, but take a look at Favre. I know I'll get blasted for the comparison but he was picked by Atlanta and they found they could not change his throwing motion. found he throws too many interceptions. So they trade him to Green Bay and he developed into a great QB. He might to well he might not. I'd honestly like to see us find a way to pick Chase back up and have both going into 2010. Plus a drafted QB of Shanahan's choice for his system.

I also am a believer that our QB problem is partially Zorn or rather the QB coach. I know people will say he was supposed to be the best and look what he did with Hasslebach (sp) but I think partially everything that has gone wrong is Zorn trying to change all the QB's throwing motion to include JC, and Colt. Green Bay let Favre be Favre. So what if he had a screwed up throwing motion he could make all the throws. Think about it... what if someone came up to us older folks and said from now on instead of putting your hands at 10 and 2 o'clock you now will have to put your hands at 8 and 4 o'clock? I know they are teaching the latter in school now due to the air bags but I was taught 10 and 2 and I have great difficulty with the other position. Zorn has tried to force JC as well as Colt to change their throwing motion. One in which they have had from a kid through high school, through college, and now into the pros. They have muscle memory with where and when to release the ball with the throwing motion they have used for years and it's worked fine for them. Then Zorn comes in and not only do they have to remember how many steps to back up from the line of scrimmage due to timing, they have to read the defense, and look for an open receiver. Then you throw in the fact that Zorn wants them holding the ball a certain way and throwing the ball a certain way.

I just think the change in throwing motion should have happened back in high school or college. If they don't have the throwing motion you like don't draft them or let them throw they way they have for years and see if they will work out in your system or not. Again it all goes back to trying to put a square peg in a round hole.

Re: Do You Want Jason Campbell Back in 2010?
 

Yes....Given what any decent QB needs to be successful, he can be a winner. Give him a running game and pass protection, then be the judge.

Re: Do You Want Jason Campbell Back in 2010?
 

I had previously reversed my opinion on him and now I'm doing it again. Campbell has regressed against nfc east opponents and made unforgiveable mistakes. If were rebuilding, then let's do it right and get rid of everyone who's holding us back.

Re: Do You Want Jason Campbell Back in 2010?
 

[quote=GMScud;647426]Where is everyone getting this three years stuff from? 2010 is the year in question. Nothing beyond.[/quote]

He's been here 4 years now and we're all still on the fence. And it's not like we're gonna reunite the Hogs in 2010, our o-line will likely be weak for another year or two at least. So when exactly do we get to make a decision on Campbell? By the time our o-line is adequate JC might be 40.

[quote=GMScud;647426]For all the "NO" people out there, who do you want that could be any better?[/quote]

Well that's the big question and I don't disagree with you, there's probably no other available QB that would be an improvement over JC in 2010. But if Shanny comes I'd rather let him build his team from scratch. Let the o-line and new QB grow together. If Shanny feels that Campbell is that guy then so be it, but I doubt that's likely.

Re: Do You Want Jason Campbell Back in 2010?
 

[quote=Mattyk;647429]I really think he will be back, but there will be a rookie in the mix for beyond 2010 or someone will be brought in via a trade.[/quote]

This scenario is my favorite choice.

Re: Do You Want Jason Campbell Back in 2010?
 

[quote=BigHairedAristocrat;647446]I had previously reversed my opinion on him and now I'm doing it again. Campbell has regressed against nfc east opponents and made unforgiveable mistakes. If were rebuilding, then let's do it right and get rid of everyone who's holding us back.[/quote]

To be honest BHA I think Campbell regressed after Zorn got a hold of him. We all know he had his flaws from the beginning, but Zorn has filled his head with so much over-coaching he's in a state of confusion. There were times and games while Al Saunders was working with him that I felt he was making the most progress. I watched Zorn's entire career as a player, he didn't exactly set the league on fire either. In more ways than one he has been more of a hinderance to campbell than a help, espically in that dink & dunk WCO.

Re: Do You Want Jason Campbell Back in 2010?
 

[quote=CrazyCanuck;647452]But if Shanny comes I'd rather let him build his team from scratch. Let the o-line and new QB grow together. If Shanny feels that Campbell is that guy then so be it, but I doubt that's likely.[/quote]
I know this is how I feel about it, and reading over the "No" crowd responses, I'd say that the feeling's mutual. Campbell was a Gibbs project. Let Shanny put his pieces together and move on...

Re: Do You Want Jason Campbell Back in 2010?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;647437]Hmmm. I see that maybe I wasn't clear in my original post. When I was asking if people wanted him back in 2010, I wasn't speaking of only [U]for[/U] 2010. I meant 2010 and beyond.

I guess, to put it another way, should we continue with Jason Campbell at all or just move on. That's what I meant by "no caveats" Fish or cut bait basically

Sorry for the confusion[/quote]

If you put it like that, than just move on at this point...bye,bye JC!!!

Re: Do You Want Jason Campbell Back in 2010?
 

I agree Campbell would be a better player had saunders stayed and zorn never got a hold of him. But who really cares? Vinnys gone. Snyders stepped back. Allen here and shanahan will be too in a few days. Campbell spilled milk and I'm not crying over him. Time to move on.

Re: Do You Want Jason Campbell Back in 2010?
 

[quote=GMScud;647412]Agreed, but it's not like our O-line is just below average. They are absolutely god awful. Most of the time he doesn't even have time to plant his back foot. You mentioned in an earlier post (I think in the Smackdown thread) about Jason rushing throws and missing throws. It's kind of understandable that he would rush his progressions at times with the lack of protection he's had.

See, with Jason, [B]the problem has been we're always switching systems[/B], and when we decide to stick with a system, we provide him with an out and out joke of an O-line. We've set him up to fail repeatedly. I absolutely want to see what he can do in 2010 under Shanahan and a with a GM who will put a premium on finding him some protection.[/quote]

and this is where I dissagree with all the pundits. JC, although not the starter had what 3-4 years under Gibbs? I know Al was brought in but it was essentally the same system. It would be like bringing in Holmgren's WCO for 4 yrs then switching to Gruden. People would not be saying "oh we are changing systems again". I mean look at what some of you guys have said...."Atleast if we bring in Shanahan we are staying in a similar system WCO".

then we brought in Zorn who did actually change the system. JC has had 2 yrs in that system. How long does it take for a QB to feel comfortable in any given system? 2yrs. 4yrs. more?

Re: Do You Want Jason Campbell Back in 2010?
 

[quote=GMScud;647426]Where is everyone getting this three years stuff from? 2010 is the year in question. Nothing beyond.

For all the "NO" people out there, who do you want that could be any better?

We already know we have a solid but unspectacular QB in Campbell. I think most people agree that with our receiving corps improving, if we give JC a decent line and running game he can be a lot better. What if we don't bring him back and use a high first rounder on a QB that ends up being a bust? Top QB draft choices are a huge roll of the dice. If we miss on one and let Campbell walk, it could set us back a lot more than three years.[/quote]

What exactly is he solid at? Solid at not taking chances, at not throwing to receiver in stride, at reading a defense? He is pretty solid at intentional grounding.

Re: Do You Want Jason Campbell Back in 2010?
 

I'd rather get Bradford and draft 2 or 3 O-Line prospects from the second round onward. The best teams with quality lines either get them through free agency or draft and develop them from rounds 2-7. Shannahan can develop rookie QB's quickly and both Ryan and Flacco saw success during their rookie year.

Ironically the Falcons had a worse line then us but with the right QB, scheme, and coaching they were able to make the playoff run we saw last year. Obviously I'm not advocating ignoring the O-Line instead I'm insisting on looking for quantity as well as quality. Maybe 1 or 2 free agents along with 2 or 3 draft picks.

I feel like a broken record at this point but the fans in Atlanta in 2008 wanted the brass to select Glen Dorsey instead of Matt Ryan now the fans couldn't be happier with the selection.

However if Shannahan thinks that we need to draft a guy like Okung first and then trade up a little from our second round spot to get McCoy then more power to him. Both Bradford and McCoy seem to fit the mold in terms of making the rollouts Shannahan likes to use.

Re: Do You Want Jason Campbell Back in 2010?
 

I'm not necessarily saying that I want Campbell back for the next 3 years but I am saying that I want to see what he can do with a legitimate head coach, a legitimate offensive line and a proven system.

Re: Do You Want Jason Campbell Back in 2010?
 

[quote=smootsmack;647398]the offensive line's struggles are too often a crutch or an excuse for campbell's own struggles.

I struggle with this because i know it's not really campbell's fault where he was drafted. But you don't trade multiple picks to get into the first round to draft a qb that can play well if everything around him is running smoothly. You spend a 6th round pick on a qb out of washington state to do that.[/quote]

mark rypien super bowl mvp!!!!!!!!

Re: Do You Want Jason Campbell Back in 2010?
 

[quote=Mattyk;647322]Yes.

I think he's a guy you can win games with given good protection and a running game.

That said, whatever the decision is from the new regime, I'll live with it.[/quote]

I agree, is there a bigger warrior in the league, he takes his beaten's and keep coming plus he did say for 2010, means we can sign him to a two year contract, with 2nd year option, and build from their, next year it's go be playoffs or bust for us.......

Re: Do You Want Jason Campbell Back in 2010?
 

[quote=SmootSmack;647398]The offensive line's struggles are too often a crutch or an excuse for Campbell's own struggles.

I struggle with this because I know it's not really Campbell's fault where he was drafted. But you don't trade multiple picks to get into the first round to draft a QB that can play well if everything around him is running smoothly. You spend a 6th round pick on a QB out of Washington State to do that.[/quote]

Are you implying that we should have spent a 6th round pick on Alex Brink?

Re: Do You Want Jason Campbell Back in 2010?
 

[quote=CHAMP757;647382]yes, given an o-line ,[B] a real offensive coordinator [/B]and a little coaching i think we could win with campbell, go get vick atleast he knows how to run[/quote]

With the seven offenses that Campbell has had I'm saying no. I don't want to be sitting here at the end of next season reading comments on here about how Campbell just's needs another year under Shannahan. JC could of been a good QB, but i think the redskins ruined him by there constant change of offensive playcalling and the inability to build a line. Let's start fresh with a QB that the new coach wants and not just stick with another Gibbs leftover.

Re: Do You Want Jason Campbell Back in 2010?
 

[quote=Zerohero;647478]What exactly is he solid at? Solid at not taking chances, at not throwing to receiver in stride, at reading a defense? He is pretty solid at intentional grounding.[/quote]

Pretty solid at over throwing the receiver or dirt balls. I got it. He's pretty solid at throwing the ball with all his strength no matter if its a 50 yrder or 5 yrder. and you forgot throwing behind his receivers. I think he has trouble inticipating where the WR will be and throwing to that point in order to hit them in stride. I guess that's the difference between good and great.... a QB that throws to where he's looking vs. throwing to where the receiver will be to catch the ball in stride.

Re: Do You Want Jason Campbell Back in 2010?
 

[quote=skinsfan69;647484]mark rypien super bowl mvp!!!!!!!![/quote]

At least somebody got it :)